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View Full Version : A little AC advice please



steelman
07-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Hi All

Here is the story, I have a 89 XR-7, its been in storage for the last 11 years..yea the car is pretty good with under 100 K , or 62,000 miles for my American friends.Anyways its been pretty hot here so I really want the AC to work,I went to recharge it( R-12) and after finding out I cant, I found I can use a close relative to it called R-12A.Doing this I found the accum/drier to have a bad leak---see pic.I have the old one out and I am waiting on the new one, what else should I be doing before I charge the system, I have read many posts and I am confused with all the different advise.I know the compressor is good , and it needs oil, where would this oil go? I have been to a few shops and they are all out to lunch on pricing, one guy told me he wanted to convert it to 134 and the cost was $700.00 plus what ever the cost to do the drier.I am novice when it comes to AC systems but I am not new to wrenching and I know I could do this with a little direction.Thanks so much!
Paul

coolhand
07-17-2008, 03:27 PM
I figure for $700, you could buy an abused SC with the AC working, and just swap it for a lot less.

Coolhand

whiplash15
07-17-2008, 04:37 PM
I just bought a new compressor off of ebay for $120 shipped (US). My system is already 134 so we didnt have to mess with change over. The system worked up til the week I took it to the shop so we didnt have to change the dryer etc. It cost an additional $60 for freon and $200 labor to have it pumped down and recharged. I am having my 89SC done next Monday and was told that it will be $60 more for the new 134 fittings, and about the same as the other system.

TbirdSCFan
07-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Hi All

Here is the story, I have a 89 XR-7, its been in storage for the last 11 years..yea the car is pretty good with under 100 K , or 62,000 miles for my American friends.Anyways its been pretty hot here so I really want the AC to work,I went to recharge it( R-12) and after finding out I cant, I found I can use a close relative to it called R-12A.Doing this I found the accum/drier to have a bad leak---see pic.I have the old one out and I am waiting on the new one, what else should I be doing before I charge the system, I have read many posts and I am confused with all the different advise.I know the compressor is good , and it needs oil, where would this oil go? I have been to a few shops and they are all out to lunch on pricing, one guy told me he wanted to convert it to 134 and the cost was $700.00 plus what ever the cost to do the drier.I am novice when it comes to AC systems but I am not new to wrenching and I know I could do this with a little direction.Thanks so much!
Paul You will need a new drier. They are not reusable. Well actually you can reuse one if you don't mind replacing the compressor after 2-3months. :eek:

I don't know what to tell you about the topic. Its sufficiently complicated that you should read up on how-to if you want it to work right and last. The $700 is actually very reasonable with parts and labor. If you DIY, you might come in for a lot less though. There are a number of "it depends" things with your setup that will affect what you can get by without doing... that is except for the accumulator... you need a new one. :cool:

dwayne
07-17-2008, 11:07 PM
after you get the dryer on you will need to have system vac down to make sure their is no leaks in system.with the dryer already off replace the orfis tube.is in line under dryer.IF vac holds on zero say 5 minutes,no leaks.ok their is a new product called frezze 12-replaces the r-12,works great and is colder.recharge with that,no need to change over to 134.

steelman
07-18-2008, 12:48 AM
OK I wanted to update this post. I went a head and inspected the AC condenser, I am going to install a new one, it didn't appear to have any leaks but for the cost I might as well. I have to say those quick connects were not quick, it took me almost 4 hours to get the drier,condenser and three connections off...yes thats right one is still on and wont come off.The orfus tube is in the liquid line correct? and if so can the orfus tube be changed with out taking that line out of the car or is the orfus tube a part of that line? Thats the one connection that will NOT come off.My hands are too sore to try anymore today.

SO am I correct in doing this:
Install Drier

Install Condenser

Install Orfus tube..if possible

Take it somewhere and have the system vac out

Then go ahead and recharge

Anything else?
Thanks so much!

dwayne
07-18-2008, 03:00 AM
the orfis tube is easy to get at,you have the dryer off look down at line will see where the line is screwed together unscrew ,pull apart line orfis is in left of line,take a set of needle nose plyers put into line and pull out,is about 3 inches long,pay close attention to how it comes out,the ends are different dont want to put in backwards,push new one back in same line,screw lines back together.

PS put orfis tube in first,with dryer off.

steelman
07-18-2008, 03:14 PM
Thanks Dwayne, I will do that, funny the more research I do the more confused I get! Some sites say the orfus tube is part of that line and cannot be taken apart and others like your self say it can be done. I will look at mine and let you know how it turns out,Thanks for the tips I really appreciate it.

garsc
07-18-2008, 06:33 PM
the orfis tube is easy to get at,you have the dryer off look down at line will see where the line is screwed together unscrew ,pull apart line orfis is in left of line,take a set of needle nose plyers put into line and pull out,is about 3 inches long,pay close attention to how it comes out,the ends are different dont want to put in backwards,push new one back in same line,screw lines back together.

PS put orfis tube in first,with dryer off.

Unless some one has installed an orfice tube kit the orfice tube isnt replaceable unless you replace the liquid line (small line from condensor to the evap.) it is made into the line itself. Entire line is available for about $25.00.I dont recomend installing those orfice tube kits because they are prone to leaks.

TbirdSCFan
07-18-2008, 06:56 PM
Thanks Dwayne, I will do that, funny the more research I do the more confused I get! Some sites say the orfus tube is part of that line and cannot be taken apart and others like your self say it can be done. I will look at mine and let you know how it turns out,Thanks for the tips I really appreciate it. If its a 89-92 SC, the otube is crimped into the liquid line... and not accessible. You have to cut the line open and install Otube + Otube holder. Simpler to just replace the line.

I however, rarely do things the simple way.. ;) so I have the kit (Steel tube with fittings on both ends) and a number of Otubes for testing with. :cool:

TbirdSCFan
07-18-2008, 07:05 PM
I have to say those quick connects were not quick, it took me almost 4 hours to get the drier,condenser and three connections off...yes thats right one is still on and wont come off.

Thats the one connection that will NOT come off.My hands are too sore to try anymore today. Are you using the proper tool? Usually its a set of plastic shells of different diameters. The select shell goes around the line and is then pushed into the spring lock to expand the spring. Then you pull the line off. With old old systems, the buildup can be so great that a lot of grunt is required... in fact, on my red car, the oem dryer to evaporator hookup was SOOO stiff, I took 15 feet of 1/2" rope, looped it around the tube on the dryer and used the rope as a slide hammer to get the thing loose. :eek: :eek: I think even then I had to twist the dryer back-n-forth to get it to break loose.

Duffy Floyd
07-18-2008, 07:30 PM
It is not mandatory to change the orifice tube and still get decent cooling.I am running a system converted to 134a and still using the R12 orifice. The major problem with doing the conversion is the R12 oil is mineral based and not compatible with 134a. You need to get the old oil out and changing the accumulator dryer and condenser is a step in the right direction.

dwayne
07-18-2008, 10:11 PM
SORRY .i have to disagree on the orfice tube,I am certifed in auto AC,every compressor,dryer and so on we at the shop changed the orfis was always stoped up with gunk and does restrick the flow of freon going through the system also whoever you buy the ac parts from will not warantie the parts unless the orfis is not changed.And I have never run across a vehicle that the orfis tube is not accesable.

Duffy Floyd
07-18-2008, 10:20 PM
SORRY......not my experence as evident by my functional AC. I did not say you shouldn't change the orifice......just that it isn't mandatory EXCEPT if you dumped the compressor into the system (siezed) since you will have all kinds of gunk in the system.

TbirdSCFan
07-18-2008, 11:30 PM
And I have never run across a vehicle that the orfis tube is not accesable. I suppose it is.. you just need a hack saw to access it. :D I'll post a picture if you want..

dwayne
07-18-2008, 11:45 PM
no pic necessary.never did a SC,only one here is mine that i know of,my AC works great.All i can say is the SC must have a different system than other cars.

steelman
07-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Thanks guys, As for the "Quick Connect" yea I have the proper tools to remove them.I am sure it will come off , but it does take allot of pulling swearing and sweat....3 done one more to go, I am letting some penetrating oil soak over night.If that doesn't work I will cut it off and be real carefully not to damage the evaporator.I am hoping to have cold air buy Tuesday, I have to order the new hose with the O-tube in it.
Again thanks to all of your that replied!

Mike8675309
07-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Just get a new liquid line and replace the o-rings. Take the old ones down to the parts store and match them up. You need A/C compatible o-rings, not standard rubber. It has the orifice valve inside. I did the orifice valve, Dryer and new compressor. then brought it to a shop and had them vac it down and re-charge with R134a.

Note that it is important to know how much oil is in your system. I.e., new compressors often come with the oil charge already in them. Rebuilt compressors often need an oil charge when installed.

I need to replace the liquid line and dryer in my other car yet. I'm doing that because it was sitting open for a long time, and for me, it doesn't make sense not to replace the dryer, and orifice valve.

TbirdSCFan
07-21-2008, 01:30 AM
So, here's what it looks like. :cool:

This is the line cut with the fitting. The upper part is the battered old orange tube, the lower part is where I have inserted the newer blue tube for a replacement. The next pic shows everything in place and ready to install. This line will be going on the black car as soon as I receive my accumulator. The other 2 cars have the closed liquid line, but since the A/C is working well on those, I'm not going to mess with em.

steelman
07-25-2008, 05:24 PM
OK Update on my on going process

So far I have replaced the Drier, Liquid line, all of the O-rings, spring locks, condenser and low pressure switch.I get my hands on 3 LBS of R12( don't ask). This morning i go out to the garage and filled up the compressor with 8 oz of ester oil...it was bone dry, I removed it and emptied what ever was in there.So I jump the low pressure switch , the compressor is working with no noise.I start to recharge the system and its actually blowing cold air!! I was sooo excited.....until the compressor starts to chirp like a bird....Yup the compressor is NFG....The new on is on order and while I am in there I am going to replace the high pressure line with the manifold.Something that I thought was going to be a $100.00 job has turned into $1200.00! Oh well thats the way life goes.I am hoping the new compressor comes with the oil in it.

Duffy Floyd
07-25-2008, 05:58 PM
The last compressor I bought had oil in it. When you install it though and have the new one hooked up....make sure you energize the clutch and spin it by hand to distribute some of the oil into the system before you charge the system and have the engine do it. . I assume you are drawing a vac. (evacuating the system) before you charge it? Also keep everything sealed for as long as you can until you are ready for the new compressor install...otherwise you will trash you new accumulator dryer.

91 XR7
07-25-2008, 10:25 PM
I'm thinking of doing my SC soon too.. I just wish i knew the condition of the pump and Evap to being with.. :(

Hoping just to be able to replace the liquid line, Drier, Maybe Condenser (for a shorter one?) and then convert it to R134a (Can't Do R12 up here)

Also hope it works out better then my '91 XR7.. Change out EVERYTHING in the system (Evaporator, Condenser, Receiver/drier, Pump, pressure switch and all lines) and it just didn't work.. :mad: Even had someone come to fill it and check out the whole thing...

TbirdSCFan
07-26-2008, 12:52 AM
I'm thinking of doing my SC soon too.. I just wish i knew the condition of the pump and Evap to being with.. :(

Hoping just to be able to replace the liquid line, Drier, Maybe Condenser (for a shorter one?) and then convert it to R134a (Can't Do R12 up here) North of the US/Canada border you will do fine with the shorter condenser. North of the US/Mexico border, you won't. :cool: You can test a compressor by simply spinning the inner wheel by hand. If it spins smooth w/o too much or too little resistance, its probably OK.


and it just didn't work.. :mad: Even had someone come to fill it and check out the whole thing... And?? what did they figure out? If they were semi-knowledgeable, they should have told you something.. :rolleyes: I'd bet its probably something simple like a vacuum line, or a cable, needs an adjustment, or possibly a new relay module (IRCM). ;)

steelman
07-26-2008, 01:32 AM
Did you change the compressor?With all of the new parts you put it, it should have worked! I am very curious about this




Also hope it works out better then my '91 XR7.. Change out EVERYTHING in the system (Evaporator, Condenser, Receiver/drier, Pump, pressure switch and all lines) and it just didn't work.. :mad: Even had someone come to fill it and check out the whole thing...

91 XR7
07-26-2008, 01:58 AM
Compressor was replaced.. When the guy came to Fill it up, he said everything checked out fine.. But it just never really worked good..

It's almost like the Freon leaked out or something.. Even if i messed with the pressure turn-on/off point (the switch i had was adjustable) it still never worked how i expected it too.. So i just gave on it.. and used the AC buttons to manual turn on the E-fan if i wanted too :o

Oh'well I been meaning to buy one of them Manifold things (typically to Evac and Fill the systems) to test pressures just never get around to it..

I usually only care for the whole AC thing to kill of some of the Humidity and to Defog the windshield ;)