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Dahoopd
09-24-2008, 07:02 AM
I just finished my hub swap and tried to search but none of the threads state that you have to replace the fron hub nut. I replaced the rears but didnt want to waste the $24 to replace the front if its not needed.

Duffy Floyd
09-24-2008, 07:47 AM
Hub Retaining Nuts (the OEM ones) are single use devices. With that said my front hub retaining nuts are on their second go around with no issues since I got bum doped by the dealer and purchased the wrong nuts when I had David Dalke replace my front hubs. He used Locktite to secure them.

Yesterday I tried to buy the NAPA aftermarket replacement for the hub retaining nut for my 95 since I doubt the front end is going to stay together long and I had to replace a hub now. I refused to buy them since they are just a "nut"...no internal plates that are deformed to hold the nut tight on the spindle or axle shaft. But you may look at it differently. Less expensive than OEM. Also Rockauto sell a replacement....also cheaper than $12.00 each.

XR7
09-24-2008, 09:55 AM
Not trying to be mean when I say this but..


I have read a bunch of threads that state the nut is a one time use.. And should be replaced.

Karl

Duffy Floyd
09-24-2008, 10:09 AM
Karl,

Probably cause that is what the Ford Shop Manual says to do.

XR7 Dave
09-24-2008, 10:25 AM
I think the direction to replace the nut is more or less a disclaimer to cover Ford's "butt". I don't think it is any kind of a strength issue as with some bolts that need replacing, I think it is soley a matter of concern about the nut coming loose over time and a wheel falling off.

I have asked many mechanics over time about replacing axle nuts and I have found that most all will tell you that they do not replace them. Clearly not a lot of them are falling off. However, because of the direct liability that Ford would have should one come off and cause severe loss to someone, I think they choose not to take any chances.

This brings up another point though, in that following OE procedures to the letter doesn't mean you can't have problems either. Not knowing, understanding, and/or applying OE torquing techniques *correctly* can create a whole new set of issues. Often out if ignorance rather than negligence.

I would check with Ford again if you want the correct nuts. My Ford dealer does list 2 different part numbers for front and rear.

Duffy Floyd
09-24-2008, 10:35 AM
Yup...the dealer "up here" failed to get the correct ones for me. I did buy the correct fronts from my dealer at home. Will post PN's tonight when I get back to the apartment.

Proper torquing is required since in this hub design the bearing preload is set by the correct torque being applied to the hub retaining nut.

Micahdogg
09-24-2008, 10:51 AM
It's been my experience that the driver side rear hub nut will loosen up over time if reused. I can't comment on the front drive side hub nut, but the rear will definitely loosen up. I wouldn't expect the passenger side to loosen though. I recently swapped my differential and purposely pulled the pass side axle because I planned to reuse the hub nut. I didn't use any locktite and simply put about 180ft-lbs on it. but I indexed the thing with a sharpie and plan on monitoring it.

Also, you will know when your hub nut starts to back off well before it completely unthreads. Things will feel wobbly.

KMT
09-24-2008, 11:16 AM
These cars use what is known as a 'prevailing torque hub nut' - these types of fasteners lose their ability to stay tight once they are removed.

This is part of the extended life design that allows a typical hub bearing to see 100,000 miles of trouble-free service.

Reuse of this type of fastener on any vehicle invites risk and lowers the service life of the component. Obtain new hub nuts and torque to specification with a reliable tool.

TbirdSCFan
09-24-2008, 11:56 AM
These cars use what is known as a 'prevailing torque hub nut' - these types of fasteners lose their ability to stay tight once they are removed. All lock nuts "lose" some ability, however small, to hold torque when loosened. However like everything on the vehicle, it is designed to hold more than it does. Some of us have had 240,000+ miles of trouble free operation using/reusing the original fastener(s). ;)


Oh... and trust me on this... if Duffy says its OK... its OK.. :D He's a stickler for correctness. :D

Micahdogg
09-24-2008, 12:00 PM
Just to clarify, I believe that the counterclockwise rotation of the driver side wheels assist in loosening those lock nuts. In my experience, it dind't matter how much torque we were putting on that locknut, if you drove on the highway for a couple hours, you could feel things getting loose. Pull over, throw the breaker bar/socket on there and tighten her up.

The passenger side never acted up. So again, if you have to reuse lock nuts I would do so on the passenger side only. I will always replace the locknuts on the drivers side.

Dahoopd
09-24-2008, 12:08 PM
Not trying to be mean when I say this but..


I have read a bunch of threads that state the nut is a one time use.. And should be replaced.

KarlThose threads are referring to the rear. None said about the front. And I didnt take it as mean. Thanks

Dahoopd
09-24-2008, 12:10 PM
I just picked up the hub nuts from the stealership for $6 each.

XR7
09-24-2008, 12:27 PM
Karl,

Probably cause that is what the Ford Shop Manual says to do.

Yes Good Point...

I was a Helicopter Mechanic in the US Army, and they (The Army) were very strict on replacing nuts, and not reusing anything... I guess that's where I get the thought of.. If it says to replace it I do.. But I see a couple people chimed in here, that I don't know personally, but I trust in what they say...

So, if I need, I could/would reuse the nuts.. :)

XR7Dave, Thanks for the advice, I do have the tools available to me.. so I will look into trying that.. rather than spending a couple hundred bucks.. :)

Karl

KMT
09-24-2008, 12:40 PM
>I just picked up the hub nuts from the stealership for $6 each.

Good for you.

That works out to 0.00024 cents per 100,000 miles for all four corners.

I'm always entertained by owners that would never try to save $$ by using regular fuel in an SC, as an example, but balk when it comes to replacing service parts such as fasteners...each to his/her own, of course :)

S_Mazza
09-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Yesterday I tried to buy the NAPA aftermarket replacement for the hub retaining nut for my 95 since I doubt the front end is going to stay together long and I had to replace a hub now. I refused to buy them since they are just a "nut"...no internal plates that are deformed to hold the nut tight on the spindle or axle shaft. But you may look at it differently. Less expensive than OEM. Also Rockauto sell a replacement....also cheaper than $12.00 each.

A lot of the service replacements are designed differently than the OEM nuts, but do have deformation built into them. I got a set from Carquest once that were single-piece, gold-colored nuts. But if you look closely at them, they are slightly out of round. They deform when torqued to act as locknuts. I didn't have any trouble with them. All I'm saying is that those may be fine if you can't get the right ones from the dealer.

Duffy Floyd
09-24-2008, 01:51 PM
KMT,

Would that being amazed concerning saving money be like using dielectric grease as opposed to heat sink compound under the early model DIS Modules?

TbirdSCFan
09-24-2008, 02:28 PM
I was a Helicopter Mechanic in the US Army, and they (The Army) were very strict on replacing nuts, and not reusing anything... I guess that's where I get the thought of.. If it says to replace it I do. Failure of military aircraft has enormous consequences... failure of a hub bearing has small consequence mostly inconvenience.

These nuts don't just let go and the wheels go flying off.. if they were to loosen, noise, vibrations, wobble, bad tracking, etc would alert the driver to a serious problem.. The problem would be SO apparent that no normal person possessing an IQ of 80 or more would continue to operate the vehicle in that way. :rolleyes:

Micahdogg
09-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Failure of military aircraft has enormous consequences... failure of a hub bearing has small consequence mostly inconvenience.

These nuts don't just let go and the wheels go flying off.. if they were to loosen, noise, vibrations, wobble, bad tracking, etc would alert the driver to a serious problem.. The problem would be SO apparent that no normal person possessing an IQ of 80 or more would continue to operate the vehicle in that way. :rolleyes:

bingo.....

XR7 Dave
09-25-2008, 02:18 AM
bingo.....

Is that why your wheel fell off while you were driving down the road? Or was that someone else? :eek:

Micahdogg
09-25-2008, 10:05 AM
No, those were crappy lugnuts which were the wrong pitch. I mean, they were close enough to thread onto the studs and mount the wheel, but after a few turns it started busten em loose. One big right hand turn and BAM.

All I know is I was a 20 year old kid and no one taught me at that point to double check EVERYTHING. You give me lugnuts for a t-bird, then they must be for a t-bird.

pablon2
09-25-2008, 10:17 AM
>I just picked up the hub nuts from the stealership for $6 each.

Good for you.

That works out to 0.00024 cents per 100,000 miles for all four corners.

I'm always entertained by owners that would never try to save $$ by using regular fuel in an SC, as an example, but balk when it comes to replacing service parts such as fasteners...each to his/her own, of course :)

I hear ya, I have removed my torque converter about 6 times and every time I reinstall I use NEW converter nuts from Ford.

XR7
09-25-2008, 12:15 PM
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I'm always entertained by owners that would never try to save $$ by using regular fuel in an SC, as an example, but balk when it comes to replacing service parts such as fasteners...each to his/her own, of course :)

KMT, to you your comment, Believe, me I am very willing to spend the extra bucks for the right part.

Though I did not explain my whole thought process, of trying to save some cash, the saving was more of a troubleshooting methodology for me..

1. If I can spend 20 bucks on a bearing, press the old one out. Press in the new one, and yes use the old nut to but the assembly back on the car..

2. If this gets rid of the humming noise, I now I found the right bearing..

3. Once I pin pointed the problem wheel, I assure you I would spend the 200 for an assembly and New Nut, for a long term solution.

I do however understand your humor in people trying to save a buck, in a long term solution..

Oh, and on a side note.. If I had a known, good used Hub an Bearing assembly available to me for a 89 Cougar.. I would most likely do a quick swap to see if it went away.. and then, of course, spend the 200 bucks for a new assembly and a nut...

TbirdSCFan
09-25-2008, 03:42 PM
2. If this gets rid of the humming noise, I now I found the right bearing.. Try a different set of tires before you conclude a bearing is the culprit. :cool:

XR7
09-25-2008, 11:48 PM
Try a different set of tires before you conclude a bearing is the culprit. :cool:

Excellant Idea, I did try this as well. :( First tried to rotate my tires... then I put another complete different style tire, with different rims.. did not cure the issue..

Karl

S_Mazza
09-26-2008, 09:34 AM
In my experience, a worn hub bearing makes more noise when you turn away from that side (transferring the weight to the bad hub), and quiets down when you turn into that side. So that can help you narrow it down.