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90blkbrd
10-01-2008, 03:06 PM
Ok you chemical engineers and motorheads...

Snow says we should be using their mix which is 50/50 methanol and distilled water. Some people run strait methanol, I run the 50/50 mix. I have read that a gallon of wiper fluid and 4 cans of heat can create the equivalent mix of 50/50.

How would each of these mixes below effect the car, tune, air temps and final hp/tq numbers.

1. strait methanol
2. 50/50 mix
3. wiperfluid and heet mixture
4. wiperfluid
5. strait tap water

pablon2
10-01-2008, 03:33 PM
My understanding is that you should not stray from the ratio with which you tuned.

But, my guess is that you are merely looking for a philosophical discussion here. ;)

90blkbrd
10-01-2008, 04:09 PM
My understanding is that you should not stray from the ratio with which you tuned.

I agree


But, my guess is that you are merely looking for a philosophical discussion here. ;)

I think I am. If someone is using one of these combos and are still having to high of inlet temps, would going to the next level up help?

For example: If I were using 50/50 and timing is being pulled because of to high inlet temps, would going to strait methanol help lower the inlet temps?

Mike8675309
10-01-2008, 06:45 PM
I use 3 bottles of heat and top off with -20 blue windshield washer fluid. I don't know what that puts me at, but that's the standard I set for myself.

50/50 is just the MAX blend that snow with support with their product.

As far as optimum for any particular car, that will depend on what you you need done. You want to have the best temperature drop you can achieve for intake air. But you also want to balance the amount so you don't reduce combustion efficiency due to the lower energy content of methanol plus water.

That combustion efficiency balances out with timing advance you can achieve due to the increased octane.

You would need to experiment with combinations for your car. In general, 50/50 should be a good place to start, mostly because it's easy to make.

Mercutio
10-01-2008, 08:39 PM
I run the Heat/windshield washer mix. It seems to work fine, and that's what we tuned the car on. One suggestion I have is that if you use this mix, remember that the mixed stuff looks exactly like the unmixed wiper fluid. I've taken to putting green food coloring in the mixed batches so that I don't lose track of whether a particular bottle is mixed or not. Snow says the food coloring won't hurt a thing.

superdadsc
10-01-2008, 10:13 PM
How much of a temp. drop did you notice with this system? Would you guy's recommend this mod?

Stephen

SCotto
10-02-2008, 01:44 AM
You should'nt assume that running more alcohol will cool the intake charge more. In a water/alcohol injection system most of the cooling takes place in the combustion chamber. When water/alcohol vaporizes it takes heat to do so, this is called latent heat of vaporization (lhv). The lhv of gasoline is 140 Btu/lb that results in a temperature drop of about 40 degrees F. The lhv of ethanol is 361 Btu/lb, the lhv of methanol is 474Btu/lb, the lhv of water is 700 Btu/lb. Therefor water should cool the intake charge more. In addition when the water turns to high-pressure steam it will provide additional power due to the pressure exerted by the steam.
Hope this helps you guys out, Scott

Mike8675309
10-02-2008, 07:20 PM
How much of a temp. drop did you notice with this system? Would you guy's recommend this mod?

Stephen

You get about a 20-40 degree drop in intake air charge temp depending on how hot the air is to start with. Typically with a 50/50 mix you can add a few degrees of timing as well, though you want to be cautious in adjusting timing as you don't want to be on the edge when you run out of fluid.

tbirdsc357
10-02-2008, 11:35 PM
I run a 60/40 mix of meth (methyl hydrate)/washer, I have a few jugs pre mixed so the ratio is pretty much consistent.

David Neibert
10-03-2008, 01:26 PM
I use 3 bottles of heat for each gallon of -20 blue windshield washer fluid. Mix it up a few gallons at a time in a fuel jug.

David

Mike8675309
10-05-2008, 05:27 PM
Did some tests today. Just seeing where the car is at before the club clash.

Logged ACT's were:
No Snow - 136.7 degrees wot 1st to 3rd at 4800rpm
With Snow - 98 degrees wot 1st to 3rd at 4800rpm

So gained about 3hp with the snow just in temp drop, probably more as you avoid then hitting where the engine computer starts pulling timing.

Mike Puckett
10-05-2008, 05:41 PM
I buy VP M1 methanol at the track for $4/gal and dilute it with an equal amount of filtered water. Comes to $2/gal. I monitor my intake temps and also get a 20 to 40 degree drop in intake temps.

pablon2
08-14-2009, 08:00 PM
It's time to mix up another 3 gallons of SNOW injection juice. I have a few options for water:

1. Unsoftened water
2. Softened water
3. Water that has been softened and then put through a 3-stage RO process
4. Distilled water
5. Spring water
6. Lake water ;)

Last time I used option 3, but figured I'd get some other opinions before mixing this next batch.

Mike8675309
08-14-2009, 09:51 PM
It's time to mix up another 3 gallons of SNOW injection juice. I have a few options for water:

1. Unsoftened water
2. Softened water
3. Water that has been softened and then put through a 3-stage RO process
4. Distilled water
5. Spring water
6. Lake water ;)

Last time I used option 3, but figured I'd get some other opinions before mixing this next batch.


Distilled water would be my option. mineral content will be low which should limit any issues with the nozzle plugging. All the others but 3 would have mineral content. Softened water has salt added to it.

90blkbrd
08-15-2009, 05:14 AM
It's time to mix up another 3 gallons of SNOW injection juice. I have a few options for water:

1. Unsoftened water
2. Softened water
3. Water that has been softened and then put through a 3-stage RO process
4. Distilled water
5. Spring water
6. Lake water ;)

Last time I used option 3, but figured I'd get some other opinions before mixing this next batch.

I would have to say distilled water is the best but barely better than a reverse osmosis unit.

:eek: I've been using #3 for a year now which I'd guess I've used 4 gallons now. I was told that the RO unit would remove all of the leftover salt. The salt is used to regenerate the pellets in the tank and once that is done they are rinsed off.

CMac89
08-15-2009, 09:50 AM
It's time to mix up another 3 gallons of SNOW injection juice. I have a few options for water:

1. Unsoftened water
2. Softened water
3. Water that has been softened and then put through a 3-stage RO process
4. Distilled water
5. Spring water
6. Lake water ;)

Last time I used option 3, but figured I'd get some other opinions before mixing this next batch.

How about none of the above. Just run methanol. It IS called a methanol injection kit.

lanteau
08-16-2009, 02:24 PM
I'm considering getting a snow kit down the road. Exactly which kit should I buy? Where do you guys put the reservoir? And where exactly is the best location for the injector? Thanks.

Mike8675309
08-16-2009, 10:24 PM
How about none of the above. Just run methanol. It IS called a methanol injection kit.

the snow kits recommend a 50/50 blend of methanol and water. At least 20 percent water will significantly reduce the corrosion capability of methanol, so much so that in tests it was found to make the water/meth mix less corrosive than just plain water.

how a water softener works:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm

RO systems that are a membrane type system do not remove all of the extra sodium ions added through softening water with salt though it will reduce the level of sodium. (or potassium if using potassium) Over time, more and more sodium will pass through the membrane.