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ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 03:46 PM
ok this 92 has been given me some crazy problems...most of it can be found in the " no start problem...help.." thread on here, i thought i might've solved the problem cuz i found the ignition switch was hangin low and not makin good contact...well i fixed that yesterday and everything seemed to be workin fine...no buzzin IRCM and all the electronics seemed to be workin...well it tricked me:( cuz i went out there today to try to get it to start with a good battery cuz my other one died yesterday before i found the problem with the ignition....
anyway here's whats goin on'.....first off the IRCM buzzez like crazy when i turn the key on and it also throws a check engine light while its buzzin...the light goes off when the IRCM stops buzzin which it does every so often when it decides it wants to... Checked fuel at the valve on the rails and it's gettin fuel..... I sprayed a lil starting fluid in the intake to tried to start it and it fired one time (you can barely call it that,I think like one cylinder hit) but nothing after that...except..and this is what I"m really concerned with other than the electrical everything goin haywire at random times...and thats after i stopped crankin it..it seemed to release pressure somewhere behind the supercharger (can actually here a whoosh) then on top of that i can stop crankin it and the engine will kinda turn over byitself almost like by air pressure or somethin' i don't know...it's wierd as hell... I know most of you are thinkin scan it for codes cuz it's throwin a check engine light and i would but i'm broke and don't have a scanner.... another thing is just for kicks i decided to check to see if it has spark (for kicks cuz i had it runnin a few months back) well i pulled a wire and turned the key on and when i came around and grabbed the wire it shocked the ~~~~~ out of me...the car was not bein cranked over the key was just on and the wire shocked me:confused:....I have no idea where to even begin to start to tryto figure out this electrical problem...i'm gonna get a scanner at the end of the week and more than likely a volt meter...after that i have no idea.... the car has new o2 sensors, new wires , new plugs , a good DIS , a good coil pack, the ignition switch is fixed....only two things i can think of is crank sensor first and foremost and the cam sensor.... problem with the crank sensor is i ain't never did it before and only have an idea where it's located..i looked for the write up for it all night last night only to find it's in the members section and my membership is expired...:(......man if anybody can give me any kinda advice to help me out with this electrical problem and where to start it would be greatly appreciated,even a pic of the crank sensor so i can go out and see if maybe it's broke or somethin...i love these cars...this one is just aggravating the hell out of me...i took a video of one of the times tryin to start it...i was focusing on the supercharger to try and get a video of when the engine released air pressure and turned over by itself....no air pressure release in this video but it did slightly turn over by itself when i stopped crankin it the first time..and that buzzin is the IRCM...
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anyhelp would be grrrrrreeeaaaatttttlllyyyy appreciated...!!!!

KMT
10-01-2008, 04:21 PM
>don't have a scanner....

I recommend a code reader so that you can focus on gathering data and understanding the issue, but in a pinch, you can read the codes using a paper clip and a tail light bulb if you don't a reader, volt meter, etc. A hack, sure, but there is always a way. These aren't the best cars to own if you can't get your hands on at least a few special tools and good parts...the electrics(tronics) are pretty tough to bootstrap otherwise.

>the ignition switch is fixed

Did you just close it up, or was it replaced with a new one?

>this one is just aggravating the hell out of me

Not to tell you your business, but if you let that happen, your odds of fixing the problem get worse - take a breath and work the issue, not the pain :)

The crank sensor is on the front of the engine, passenger side of the crankshaft pulley...looking at the pulley from the front, the sensor is at about 9~10 o'clock.

It is hidden under the 2-piece black plastic pulley shield that has timing marks on it. You can follow the wiring harness at the camshaft sensor, down on the left front of the water pump area. There are two small bolts that hold it on...changing it isn't fun if you don't have a generous tool selection, patience and time to maybe remove a few other parts to get to it. I wouldn't replace it unless I had good cause to spend the time and money.

This is a good page for troubleshooting DIS with a no-start condition. (http://www.frontiernet.net/~miketoni/images/tbird/DISnostart/DIS%20No%20Start.htm)

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 04:32 PM
KMT thanx for the reply....how do i read the codes using the paper clip trick?
the ignition switch i just put it back in place and locked it in...(my old 90 sc did the same exact thing and i just put it back in place and bent the prongs back in place to hold it in and it worked with no problems) so could the ignition switch still be the problem? and yea I just been havin to walk away from it alot cuz really I can't do all that much cuz i'm recoverin from a surgery i had last week....i'm just tryin to get the problems figured out atleast.. and i managed to get the car jacked up so i'll get underneath it and see if i can find that crank sensor...see what kind of condition it's in..thanx again man..

Wilhelm310
10-01-2008, 04:33 PM
my car was acting up like that before im no pro im pretty nub when it comes to cars lol but my car had a weird no start for days n seemed right when i let go of the ignition switch it would try to turn over or fire turned out to be a clogged fuel filter for me i was getting fuel at that valve but very little . i may be dumb posting this but its worth a try

scbird1
10-01-2008, 04:35 PM
The only way I would change the crank sensor is if when your cranking the engine you see the up shift light on then this means you are not reciveing a signal form the sensor. As far as codes your buzing ICRM is a sighn that your fan relays are not working. I forget what year SC has the fuel pump relay in the ICRM but that might be your problem to. As far a codes you can take a paper clip and jump the test connector (do a search) and watch for the codes to flash on the CEL light. No scanner needed with OBD1. Double check your fireing order and if there is a way you can check fuel pressure. You need atleast 30 to run at all.

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 04:40 PM
The only way I would change it is if when your cranking the engine you see the up shift light on then this means you are not reciveing a signal form the sensor. As far as codes your buzing ICRM is a sighn that your fan relays are not working. I forget what year SC has the fuel pump relay in the ICRM but that might be your problem to. As far a codes you can take a paper clip and jump the test connector (do a search) and watch for the codes to flash on the CEL light. No scanner needed with OBD1. Double check your fireing order and if there is a way you can check fuel pressure. You need atleast 30 to run at all. ok i did notice that while crankin there was no upshift light and i remember reading about the trick usin the CEL to read codes...i'm goin to search for that too....thanx man. found link to scanning codes without a scanner and usin CEL to read 'em.. http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=13.

Wilhelm310- it's defininently worth a try...you know it was gettin fuel at the valve but now that i think about it...it wasn't that much pressure (it's been a long time since i messed around with that area) and i remember in my LSC that when i pressed the valve fuel sprayed out and in the SC's case it didn't it just kinda flowed out...

so if fuel pressure is part of the problem too...check the filter...then what?

scbird1
10-01-2008, 05:06 PM
If your down on fuel preesure that buzzing might be the fuel relay. The codes should point the way. Im out of cash too as work has been hit or miss here. How are things in FL?

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 05:11 PM
If your down on fuel preesure that buzzing might be the fuel relay. The codes should point the way. Im out of cash too as work has been hit or miss here. How are things in FL?
well i found a better site explaining how to check codes without scanner and i'm about to go out and try it.... yea i hear ya on the work thing...i do roofing but have been out for a lil more then a week cuz i got a hernia and had to have surgery so that sucked...work down here is real slow but if there is work it don't pay much (in the construction type jobs)... and yea i thought about the fuel pump relay..also when i checked the coil i took one of the plug wires off and after puttin it back on and turnin the key on the coil started havin a lil buzz to it too:confused:....wierd

scbird1
10-01-2008, 05:35 PM
(coil started havin a lil buzz to it too....wierd) Ohhhhh boy that dont sound good. Do you know if by chance if you have a old alarm system on that thing? They cut all kinds of wires and when they get old some of the connections become loose or corroded. If you have a mess of cut wires right by the steering collum that might be the problem too. I install floors and its the last thing people need when money gets tight.

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 05:42 PM
(coil started havin a lil buzz to it too....wierd) Ohhhhh boy that dont sound good. Do you know if by chance if you have a old alarm system on that thing? They cut all kinds of wires and when they get old some of the connections become loose or corroded. If you have a mess of cut wires right by the steering collum that might be the problem too. I install floors and its the last thing people need when money gets tight. I"ll check for signs of an alarm...my old LSC had an alarm that was wired into everything and I had to unhook it cuz I had no remote...so I"ll check it out...I"m about ready to go try and get codes from the CEL...but yea i hear ya there on the flooring...that sux... thats like down here,who wants a new roof put on in the middle of hurricane season?....i wouldn't..

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 05:52 PM
the CEL check ain't workin cuz the IRCM keeps buzzin and it throws the CEL light so it just rapidly blinks repeatedly to the "beat" of the buzz....so i gotta get a scanner asap....time to check out crank sensor....meant to earlier but got tied up in the CEL code check...thanx for the help guys

KMT
10-01-2008, 06:07 PM
Try to make sure the battery is charged up - low volts (less than 12 at least) can start to raise hell with many items/systems.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

S_Mazza
10-01-2008, 06:18 PM
To me, it sounds like you have a bad short in the wiring or a battery that is shorted internally. Bad batteries can cause all sorts of havoc, as KMT said. Do you have access to borrow a volt/ohm meter? I think you can do a quick resistance check of the battery itself. Also, you should be able to measure the amp draw with the key off and key on and see if you might have a shorted component elsewhere. Be careful about doing tests while cranking (I forget the rules for that stuff involving high current).

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 06:22 PM
To me, it sounds like you have a bad short in the wiring or a battery that is shorted internally. Bad batteries can cause all sorts of havoc, as KMT said. Do you have access to borrow a volt/ohm meter? I think you can do a quick resistance check of the battery itself. Also, you should be able to measure the amp draw with the key off and key on and see if you might have a shorted component elsewhere. Be careful about doing tests while cranking (I forget the rules for that stuff involving high current).

the battery is brand new....so i don't think it's the battery...but imma find out about tryin to get a volt meter....how do i measure the amp draw with they key on and off?.....again thanx everyone for the help...i really appreciate it...by the way i got underneath the car to look at the crank sensor...from what i can tell it looks good but the plastic cover wasn't bolted to anything and was just kinda there and it's all scarred up...

KMT
10-01-2008, 06:32 PM
>plastic cover wasn't bolted to anything and was just kinda there and it's all scarred up...

That may indicate someone has already experienced the loathsome joy of crank sensor and/or balancer replacement :) - doesn't mean all is well...be sure the pulley isn't loose and the sensor isn't damaged.

ndoftyme69
10-01-2008, 06:38 PM
>plastic cover wasn't bolted to anything and was just kinda there and it's all scarred up...

That may indicate someone has already experienced the loathsome joy of crank sensor and/or balancer replacement :) - doesn't mean all is well...be sure the pulley isn't loose and the sensor isn't damaged.
yea that would be nice huh?...lol...but yea i checked the pulley it seems pretty tight...took a good look at the balancer for any signs of it maybe wobbling or spinning and it looked ok...but we all know looks can be decieving...

S_Mazza
10-03-2008, 10:43 AM
Here's a link explaining the testing for amp draw, etc.

http://www.schumacherproducts.com/applications/?id=0014

ndoftyme69
10-11-2008, 05:09 PM
well i was finally able to go buy a scanner and i tried pullin codes the other day...and that was a failure....i got one of those cheap 30 dollar scanners and it didn't help me at all....wasn't able t pull codes cuz the scanners light just stayed on and the "beep" audio just stayed on the whole time...so i do't know...i guess the last thing i can do is go through the wiring with a volt meter to try to find out whats goin on...if i can't figure it out it's gonna be put up for sale...

ndoftyme69
10-11-2008, 05:14 PM
one thing thats really buggin me is that when i went to check for spark and the key was on...i grabbed the spark plug wire and it shocked me....now i wasn't crankin the car at all...the key was just on and it was sendin voltage to the wires....what would cause the spark plug wires to have constant voltage????

fturner
10-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Me tinks it times for another EEC. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking your EEC is toast. Being a '92 you would have either the M2Y or U2Y. If you have someone close by that has a 92/93 with the same calibration as you it would be worth a shot at trying a swap to see if you car would run.

Frit