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View Full Version : About to pull the trigger.........Need serious blower input.



ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 10:49 AM
Alright guys I am at a road fork here. So what would be the expert advise on where to take my cars performance from here.

I am faced with two options due to the stock hood. This is partly the reason why I posted asking about the 2.0lvs1.7l AR.

My car makes more then enough boost to make 450rwhp. with the 2.0L M112. Now assuming I fix the problem and reduce outlet temps I still think I will never get there with the MP intercooler system, It will not be adequate no matter how much alky I inject.
So road one is build a water to air intercooler system. With a tank and also a heat exhanger in front of the car. This will also fix my AC on cooling problems. This will also provide the car with more torque then I can imagine.

Road two is get a whipple 1.6L since that is the only blower that is available to purchase for me since I am keeping my stock raise hood.

Doing my calculations the 1.6L should be very similar to the AR 1.7L which you cannot buy anywhere.

Goals as most you know is over 400RWHP all day everyday.


Now things to point out is that I own a street car. I rarely go to the track, but like all of us would like to make it competative with others.


So what do I do.

I got the kid waiting for my response on the Whipple but it being 1.6L I dont want to shoot myself in the foot.

Anyways those are my plans. help me choose the right one.

rzimmerl
10-02-2008, 10:57 AM
Ricardo,

Call PSE Supercharger they should be able to help with your Autorotor needs. I think they can get new, I know for a fact you can get parts from them. That's where my 1.7 will be going to get the snout fitted. The guy I bought the 1.7 from bought his 2.0 from them, so you might want to give them a call, they are good to work with, maybe we can work something out with them if you go farther with the project.

ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 11:13 AM
I contacted PSE already about the 1.7L and whipple 1.6L

It started to get too expensive. Something like $2300 for the blower and snout was going to be another $300.

I found a used one so the above roads are the ones I am going to take.

1.6L air to air or Fix and water cool my set up.

David Neibert
10-02-2008, 11:32 AM
Ricardo,

If your looking to make 400-450 rwhp, I would go with a 1.7 or 2.0 AR or a 2.3 Whipple configured for air to air intercooling like the one Dave Dalke made for Anthony Rongo. If Dave doesn't have time or can't make a kit, you could probably convince Ken Wagner to build something. No matter how you do it, it's going to be expensive and you should plan on spending $3500-$4000.

David

PS: I think the MP FMIC has plenty of capacity for 450 rwhp if using one of the blowers I mentioned above.

bigpoppa822
10-02-2008, 11:44 AM
One word...









Turbo.

ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 11:50 AM
I have two problems Nothing beyond 1.7L is not goint to fit under my stock raise hood.
Unless I find a used 1.7L. My only choice right now is The Whipple 1.6L

Whipple claims that its new AX design out performs a twin screw of similar displacement.


I need an unbias opinion. I have the person selling the Whipple on hold until I can make up my mind of going screw or water cooling my system.
I know some of you might not have faith anymore on a roots blower. But my dyno runs clearly shows what the car can do with the air temp sensor happy. And so has Kevin L.
I really dont want to make a bad choice right now.

kenewagner
10-02-2008, 12:01 PM
I have two problems Nothing beyond 1.7L is not goint to fit under my stock raise hood.
Unless I find a used 1.7L. My only choice right now is The Whipple 1.6L

Whipple claims that its new AX design out performs a twin screw of similar displacement.


I need an unbias opinion. I have the person selling the Whipple on hold until I can make up my mind of going screw or water cooling my system.
I know some of you might not have faith anymore on a roots blower. But my dyno runs clearly shows what the car can do with the air temp sensor happy. And so has Kevin L.
I really dont want to make a bad choice right now.

The 2.3 will fit under a stock hood with some clever engineering. The whipple actually set lower than a M112 the problem is the length. The only problem might be the sc pulley sets further forward and the whipple requires a fairly good size pulley. You can have a custom jackshaft pulley made so you can run a smaller SC pulley. Other than that the whipple will fit under the hood. It just has to be talked to nicely:rolleyes:

ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 12:06 PM
The 2.3L is too big for my needs. I dont want to change camshafts. and On a street car id like to keep some guts down below.

But I am sure someone will have no problem with them on the right set up.

Back to my original two options..:o

fastsc92
10-02-2008, 12:17 PM
I don't know much about Whipples but here are my opinions.

First off, I honestly think the MP Front mount is nothing more than fancy words and is highly overpriced. It looks cool, but I think it's performance is lacking. The system has a lot of bends and it's placement is less than ideal.

Now I know the kit was designed to be a bolt-in kit for 90% of the users out there. I really think putting it behind the raditor AND A/C condenser kills it's cooling ability. A huge frontmount isn't always the answer since most of the cooling is done within the first 6-8 inches of the core anyways. I think it would be best if you set-up your LM-1 to log the ACT sensor and really see how well or how poorly it is cooling. I can help you with it if you want to.

I think air-water IC's are fantastic for track applications, but for normal street driving I think and air-air is a better option. If you run a heat exchanger you'll be better off, but the water will still mostly likely reach temps of 120deg.

A properly designed and placed air-air can get your temps to less that 30deg above ambiment on a full throttle, 4th gear run. Typically cruising around I see about 80deg on a 65 deg day, and the temp will only rise to around 90 after my pass. My zr intake did a better job at getting cold air as compared to my new intake, but that's a different story and a divider should take car of that.

In regards to the blower, I think a larger blower will help with getting lower outlet temps at the same boost levels. I'm not sure how tall they actually are and I haven't seen any charts to back-up what's best in our application.

I know the cobra guys run some massive whipple and in their case, the bigger the better. They just came out with a 4.5L!!:eek:. This picture is the 2.3l vs the 3.4l:eek:. You can only imagine with the 4.5L looks like.
http://www.kilmer-family.com/temp/33_23.jpg


Now honestly, you could spend another 4k and have a whipple set-up, but we all know your car is def. capable of the power levels that you're looking for in its current state. I think the larger rotors of the M112 are great and I'm sure that the displacement is similar to what you'd see on a 1.7L. I haven't seen what the stock m112 outlets look like to its hard to tell if opening the outlet is going to give any gains. I'm always amazed at how small the outlets are on the AR's and produce so much power.

In the end, I feel that you should work with what you've got. The hybrid is a cool idea and should work. And if all else fails, just use that MPX case and slap in some rotors and a snout, change out the manifold and try it that way. A lot of members on here are getting nearly 400hp with the MPX. If if that doesn't work, THEN think about the whipple. At the moment I'd log IC temps to see if a new system is in order and then think about modifying the hybrid to fix the outlet.

David Neibert
10-02-2008, 12:18 PM
The 2.3L is too big for my needs. I dont want to change camshafts. and On a street car id like to keep some guts down below.

But I am sure someone will have no problem with them on the right set up.

Back to my original two options..:o

Ricardo,


If those are your only two options, then I'd go with a liquid intercooler and use the blower you already have. If you do something similar to what Mark K. (supercatxr7) did but with a larger coolant tank, I think you would be able to run with quite a bit more timing in the upper rpms.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67362&highlight=intercooler

David

kenewagner
10-02-2008, 12:24 PM
The 2.3L is too big for my needs. I dont want to change camshafts. and On a street car id like to keep some guts down below.

But I am sure someone will have no problem with them on the right set up.

Back to my original two options..:o

I doubt you would be disappointed in the whipple but everyone has their own opinion;) I dont know anything about the 1.6 AX so I cant impart any wisdom to you. The smaller blower would be much easier to install under a hood. Are any of the 1.7AR guys overdriving their blower?? If so than I think that shows lack of size even for a twin screw. Is the AX a bottom or top outlet?

Ken

90blkbrd
10-02-2008, 12:31 PM
A lot of members on here are getting nearly 400hp with the MPX.

I must have missed something and please correct me if I am wrong.

I've only heard of 1 at 395, and it didn't do nearly that well at the shootout this year. I've seen 2 in the 360-370 range and quite a few in the 340-350 range.

Granted a few of MPx's and MPIII as the shootout that didn't dyno this year could have been higher, but 348 hp was the highest recorded at the shootout.

rzimmerl
10-02-2008, 12:44 PM
it's going to be expensive and you should plan on spending $3500-$4000.


That's the truth. Its going to cost me about $600 for the snout and related parts, I've got a rough quote for $1200 to make the parts to adapt it (basically the parts in the SCU kit), then you add the cost of the AR itself which I paid $1200 for a used one. Total est. cost $3000.

You can do the liquid IC a lot cheaper and if doesn't perform like you expected, you'll have a great setup ready for a twin screw in the future.

Mercutio
10-02-2008, 02:10 PM
I've only heard of 1 at 395, and it didn't do nearly that well at the shootout this year.

That was my car. I only made 345/411 this year compared to 395/426 when Dave tuned the car. This year the computer was definitely pulling timing, not sure why. The only thing I'll say in defense of my number is that since running that 395 number I changed out the stock wheels, tires and brakes for 17x9 Anny Cobras, 255/45-17 Goodyears and Cobra rear rotors. Those pieces are a lot heavier than stock, so they may have eaten some of that hp, but I really doubt they're responsible for 50 hp.

Ira R.
10-02-2008, 04:25 PM
Ricardo,

If your looking to make 400-450 rwhp, I would go with a 1.7 or 2.0 AR or a 2.3 Whipple configured for air to air intercooling like the one Dave Dalke made for Anthony Rongo. If Dave doesn't have time or can't make a kit, you could probably convince Ken Wagner to build something. No matter how you do it, it's going to be expensive and you should plan on spending $3500-$4000.

David

PS: I think the MP FMIC has plenty of capacity for 450 rwhp if using one of the blowers I mentioned above.

You mean we KNOW the MP FMIC has the capacity for that much horsepower ;)

But David is also right about the cost. Going liquid to air may improve cooling power but if you don't start moving more air that probably won't matter either, and none of this comes cheap.

And Ryan does make a good point if you are willing to be patient putting this together.

Ira

ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 04:31 PM
Thats where a roots takes an advantage over an screw. All I would have to do is overdrive it more and since its an air pump then boost should follow.

Screws have have maps similar to turbos and the only way to climb to the next level is to go bigger so as to not overdrive it our of its range.

Ofcourse none of this matter unless I can cool it down. Can I acomplish my goals with a good Water to Air? And if it work can I even go further as to over driving it more and making even more power if temps are still in check.

How much are the 1.7L ARs overdriven right now to make the 19-20psi that seems to work great in our cars?

Ira R.
10-02-2008, 04:35 PM
How much are the 1.7L ARs overdriven right now to make the 19-20psi that seems to work great in our cars?

I am using a 10% jackshaft pulley and the smaller (3.25" I think it is) sc pulley. Total overdrive of about 17.5% I believe and I generally make between 19 to 21 psi.

Ira

fastsc92
10-02-2008, 05:06 PM
I'd see where your inlet temps are at the moment. I'm guessing that the IC, in such proximity to the raditor(with 190* + coolant inside of it), with little airflow, can't be cooling that much. Maybe you can find a way to reroute the core to in front of the core support, and spend little money.

SCrazy
10-02-2008, 05:07 PM
I'm the same


I am using a 10% jackshaft pulley and the smaller (3.25" I think it is) sc pulley. Total overdrive of about 17.5% I believe and I generally make between 19 to 21 psi.

Ira

XR7 Dave
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Ricardo, a lot of the information you are posting and apparently relying on for your decisions is not really accurate.

First of all you don't know what your ACT sensor is seeing and you don't know what the ACT's really are. When we first did the motor I was not keen on rapping the motor out since it was brand new and making 22psi boost. Therefore, I did not ever get around to tuning the top end or seeing just what if any issues there were. To my knowledge that still has not been done.

Your experience with the nitrous does not indicate anything about the ACT sensor. Nitrous does not want or need a lot of timing to make good power. If anything, your gains reflect the fact that the car isn't getting a lot of timing and with the nitrous it is finally able to run like it wants to with the low timing.

Of course this is all just hearsay until the car is accurately datalogged.

As for the blower, the roots does not have any boost or hp advantage over a twin screw. The twin screw is not like turbo and is not particularly limited by any MAP. It is limited primarily by rpm due to the fact that the male rotor spins at 6/4 the speed of the female rotor. Excessive rpm will eventually cash the rotors and bearings.

Your IC is effective enough for your application. The problem starts where you insist on running over 20psi on pump gas. The roots blower, and particularly the M112 makes full boost at low rpm which is where the motor is most likely to detonate and lift the cylinder heads. There is no way around this. A twin screw, centrifugal, or turbo will make less pressure at low rpm and make more at high rpm. This will make these compressors somewhat more pump gas friendly. The combination of a roots blower and a 5spd where you have the ability to fully load the motor at low rpm makes for a lethal combination. This is something to keep in mind.

The Snow kit is more than capable of keeping your ACT's in line. We logged outlet temps in excess of 450 deg on Will's car yet logged 125 deg ACT after the double IC and alcohol injection. I'm quite sure your numbers are similar.

As for the size of the AR/Whipple and what will fit under the hood of your car, your information is also complete hearsay. Hood clearance on a 94 is significantly better than that of an 89 and we did in fact close the hood on a 2.0 kit under the hood of an 89. There are other things that can be done if need be. A 1.6L Whipple, while capable of 350rwhp, is not even close to being capable of 20+psi on your motor. The 1.7 is rung out to the max at 20psi and the 2.0 is fully into its efficient range. A 2.3 or even a 2.6 would not be too big. Fitting them under the hood does become a bit of an issue though, not due to the height of the blower, but due to the fact that the length of the case moves the outlet forward to where your outlet hits the hood. The hood on an SC slopes downward a lot further and faster than most people realize.

My honest suggestion is just to work with the M112 at this point. You have not (for a variety of understandable reasons) made what I would consider a valid effort to explore the possibilities of that blower. It needs outlet porting and the whole thing needs tuning.

If you really can't achieve what you want with the M112 after putting in a valid effort, then the next thing you should consider is a turbo. You will end up putting as much money and effort into any other blower combination as you would a turbo and most likely will not be happy with it.

ricardoa1
10-02-2008, 07:29 PM
All I can see I am extremely frustated with the car. I feel like the engine is not being used to its fullest potential. If I had near stock heads and a small cam with a stock block then it would not really matter much and to be honest the SC would have become a daily driver at that point with very little interest in making it go fast or look good. But having some of the best parts on it I dont feel that the set up is paying off.
Its like SCs defy theory or the laws of physics.

I am not understanding how tuning will take care of the problem. Did Prescision not do a good job? We spent alot of time on the car, scratching our heads..
Why does the car make 30 less HP with even with the Addition of the Snow kit. If with it, it should at least have been better if not the same?
With very little 93octane the car had 5galons of race fuel in it and it only picked up 7 RWHP. Makes me scratch my head because 20-21 doesnt seem like alot for race gas.

I am not looking for arguments I simply want to take action in the best possible way.
Its quite depressing, being far away from the people that are able to work on these cars. Fabricate, Tune and work on it. Months go by when I take stuff apart because I have to rely on others to some of the work I cannot do.

Ok enough rant.

neverfastenough
10-02-2008, 07:35 PM
If it makes you feel any better, I made 274 eariler in the year. At precision I added a mp intake plenum, and it made 253rwhp. SO I lost about 30hp too:rolleyes:

XR7 Dave
10-02-2008, 07:59 PM
As Corey eluded to, you guys are putting too much emphasis on dyno numbers.

The guys at Precision know what they are doing, but they do not have the complete tool set to be able to tune an SC to its greatest potential. 99.9% of all shops do not have those tools and hence why most people do not get the most out of their SC's. Even I am acquiring new tools all the time to make my efforts more effective. I'm sorry that I could not tune at the Shootout. I really wanted to but I just didn't have the time. It's just too much to try and provide everything at one time. Maybe I should have someone else run the Shootout?

Now who's frustrated? :confused::eek::cool:

Fact. SC's are not bolt on. If they were everyone would be fast.

Think about that for awhile.

Your engine combination is unique. Your engine has a very mild cam and I don't think those Rhoads lifters are helping it any, but I don't think that is your problem either, just a factor in things. If you had more cam you wouldn't have as much cylinder pressure and boost would come on a little bit later.

As for tuning making a difference, absolutely. I'm not saying that the Precision tune is wrong in any way, but I do feel that more time needs to be spent with the car and some accurate datalogging done.

Even then, without knowing how the blower outlet is affecting things it is hard to say how much power it will make at higher rpm. If the restriction is causing a pressure node at the rotors then the blower will consume vast quantities of HP.

90blkbrd
10-02-2008, 08:03 PM
I'm the same

That's overdriving by eaton standard's but is it overdriving the AR?

fastsc92
10-02-2008, 08:50 PM
First of all you don't know what your ACT sensor is seeing and you don't know what the ACT's really are.

Exactly my point...get into logging some critical parameters and get an idea of what really is going on.

Jamez
10-02-2008, 08:57 PM
FWIW, I have a FMIC on my Mustang in front of the radiator and on a 95 degree day after a WOT run to about 95, the IAT was reading 134 degrees. Driving around normal on that same day it was around 115.

CMac89
10-02-2008, 10:36 PM
The 2.3L Whipple will make a lot of boost. At 4k RPM, my blower was making 16.5 PSI and that's 58% UNDERdriven from a stock M90. This is a stock crank pulley, a 1:1 JS pulley, and a 3.750" blower pulley. I'm sure it will make 18 or so PSI peak with this pulley setup. The blower speed is 11,500 RPM and its maximum RPM is 18,000 RPM.

Mike8675309
10-02-2008, 10:54 PM
Only comment is there are other ways to get stuff to fit under a hood. You can easily modify the motor mounts, and the k-member to get the motor a little lower if necessary to clear a hood. I'm sure Ken Wagner could get your package together pretty well.

XxSlowpokexX
10-02-2008, 11:23 PM
kwwp in mind Rico has a 96 hood I believe.

Now have you looked into the TVS blowers??

Id personally get that m112 worked out though before I moved on...And maybe such a mild cam isnt such a good thing..Keeping in all that cylinder pressure down low

ricardoa1
10-03-2008, 10:54 AM
Car was pushed of a very high cliff this morning. Problem solved. :o


Snow kit allowed it to burn cooler. Nitrous bottle made a very big mushroom explosion. The remaining race fuel in it Allowed the car to burn to a slow crisp.


Then I woke up this morning, my dreams are telling me something. ;)

rzimmerl
10-03-2008, 11:07 AM
Then I woke up this morning, my dreams are telling me something.

Let me play psychologist...you hidden agenda deep down inside is a twin screw...that'll be $100 for the visit:D

ricardoa1
10-03-2008, 11:19 AM
Let me play psychologist...you hidden agenda deep down inside is a twin screw...that'll be $100 for the visit:D

Yes and no. The plan was to to make what I got run well then add a turbo turbo/SC setup. But I dont want to turbo to patch up the problems of the M112. But if the twin screw was going to provide me with what they both can do at a sacrifice of a few ponies then. Screw plus nitrous would be the ticket.

XxSlowpokexX
10-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Why not just go turbo and make more power then both setups...if you were going to do it before...get to it

ricardoa1
10-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Its very hard to explain Damon, Not sure why but when I went to the shoot out I saw two turbo v6 SCs, and although they both had mishaps that had nothing to do with the turbo set ups. They both at least to me lost their mystical image of it being an SC. And in my mind placed them in the same category as the V8 cars. And had no interest in competing with them even if they ripped up the dyno making 500RWHP.
I commend their efforts and would have love to see them in action. But thats how I feel.
I am sure others feel the same as me.

Why arent you packing a turbo yet? ;)

Ira R.
10-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Let me play psychologist...you hidden agenda deep down inside is a twin screw...that'll be $100 for the visit:D

Uhm... isn't he a newlywed?? Seems to me he has much bigger problems if that's what he's dreaming about!! :eek: ;) :D

Ira :D

ScrapSC
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
Dave said it very well when he let the words out "many are putting to much stock in dyno numbers"... All I can say is !!!!!!!! . Dyno numbers do not get it done at the track. I ran 12.30's and pulled 1.68 60's, could have been better, with 320 rwhp according to the dyno......

But I havent gotten into the fine tuning of things....;)

Ira R.
10-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Dave said it very well when he let the words out "many are putting to much stock in dyno numbers"... All I can say is !!!!!!!! . Dyno numbers do not get it done at the track. I ran 12.30's and pulled 1.68 60's, could have been better, with 320 rwhp according to the dyno......

But I havent gotten into the fine tuning of things....;)

It's just a number on a piece of paper. Really. It shows that the engine builder (and tuner maybe too?) is pretty damn talented and knows exactly what it takes to make power, but unless you do something with that power what do you have? Just a number on a page.

Hey, I should know.

Ira

ricardoa1
10-03-2008, 04:44 PM
Thinking that dyno numbers are not worth its weight on paper its simply trying to make a person feel good about bad numbers. We were all there at the same day and similar weather. The benchmark was all the same for all of us, Things like gearing and load does play a role, But it wasnt like we were on different dynos in a different state. And if that was the case why have the competetion afterall.

"Crawling back in"

SonySC
10-03-2008, 06:34 PM
I've always thought that a hybrid turbo/supercharged setup could be the answer. Mounting a pair of turbos that could force feed the maf at WOT. Just a thought.

XR7 Dave
10-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Thinking that dyno numbers are not worth its weight on paper its simply trying to make a person feel good about bad numbers. We were all there at the same day and similar weather. The benchmark was all the same for all of us, Things like gearing and load does play a role, But it wasnt like we were on different dynos in a different state. And if that was the case why have the competetion afterall.

"Crawling back in"

It's not a level playing field at all. I can take the same combo, same dyno, same day, make two totally different power numbers, and run the same ET's, or vice versa. I've done it many times, not on purpose, but just because of the way things play out. If you don't have an intimate understanding of what is going on at the dyno you can be easily fooled.

In your case Ricardo, I know that your car was making some serious sack when I gave it to you. If something happened in between then and now then it can also be fixed. I saw your 1/4 mile performance as well, 106mph is just not a lot. But, I know nothing of your driving. Ira took his car from 12.60 @ 110mph to 12.12 @ 116mph with no increase in power. I also ran the exact same car/combo to a 12.77 only with 100rwhp less than what he has now.

Think about that for a moment....

ricardoa1
10-03-2008, 07:15 PM
It's not a level playing field at all. I can take the same combo, same dyno, same day, make two totally different power numbers, and run the same ET's, or vice versa. I've done it many times, not on purpose, but just because of the way things play out. If you don't have an intimate understanding of what is going on at the dyno you can be easily fooled.

In your case Ricardo, I know that your car was making some serious sack when I gave it to you. If something happened in between then and now then it can also be fixed. I saw your 1/4 mile performance as well, 106mph is just not a lot. But, I know nothing of your driving. Ira took his car from 12.60 @ 110mph to 12.12 @ 116mph with no increase in power. I also ran the exact same car/combo to a 12.77 only with 100rwhp less than what he has now.

Think about that for a moment....


Then it would seem that its really the other way around, at the track is where there could be fluctuations that are not related to the car. And a car with the same power can run faster then the other one. I dont claim to be the best drag racer. On the street there is no reaction time to worry about and 60foot means little. My car was running just like the other cars making the same amount of power. Funny last night I got an email form Michael Menke, my dyno graph looks just like his same torque curve and similar numbers. At the track my car proved perform about the same maybe a tad faster. Same goes for the other MPX car. I hope it can all be fixed. Maybe I the engine is hurt and I dont even know it. But if I start thinking about that I am going to be an unhappy camper and the fate of the car and me as its owner will have to be re-evaluated. I am sure others are in my shoes but do not choose to speak out loud they will try again till they get it right and then pop up and say check out my car it did this and that. Too bad I verbalize myself too much, and have no problem showing my struggles even if it hurts my image or abilities.
Dave you have Email.

Mercutio
10-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Ricardo, I doubt I have any of the answers you're looking for, but I think your car can go way faster than it did at the shootout. I know you autocrossed in the morning, so how many passes did you have the opportunity to make? If I had based my perception of my car's performance off my first 2-3 passes I would have been very upset. You admit you're not a good drag racer; neither am I--this was the first time I had been on a drag strip since the 07 shootout. We both raced 5-speeds on street tires, and without much practice that's not a guaranteed recipe for happiness. In my first pass of the day I ran 14.90 at 98 mph or something--absolutely horrible. By my third pass I was still only at 13.98 at maybe 102--maybe. But I knew that I was doing poorly, not the car, so I made repeated passes until I felt I was getting it right. My fastest pass of the event was one I hot lapped immediately after the previous pass; I was just practicing r/t and 60-ft techniques and the car surprised me, running 13.62. My best mph in another pass was 104.88. My point in all this is that if you didn't have the chance to make many passes (and the results thread says your race against me was your best ET) I think you should give the car a chance before you tear it apart. I was disappointed on the dyno too, but throwing money at the car isn't necessarily the answer for either of us.

Nettlesd
10-03-2008, 10:28 PM
I don't have any answers for you either but, on a bright note, I did stay at a Holiday Inn while at the Shootout.

Secretly, I think you're disappointed that my wife couldn't make the Shootout and you couldn't bid on her so now you're taking it out on your car. :D

David Neibert
10-04-2008, 09:53 AM
Then it would seem that its really the other way around, at the track is where there could be fluctuations that are not related to the car. And a car with the same power can run faster then the other one. I dont claim to be the best drag racer. On the street there is no reaction time to worry about and 60foot means little. My car was running just like the other cars making the same amount of power. Funny last night I got an email form Michael Menke, my dyno graph looks just like his same torque curve and similar numbers. At the track my car proved perform about the same maybe a tad faster. Same goes for the other MPX car. I hope it can all be fixed. Maybe I the engine is hurt and I dont even know it. But if I start thinking about that I am going to be an unhappy camper and the fate of the car and me as its owner will have to be re-evaluated. I am sure others are in my shoes but do not choose to speak out loud they will try again till they get it right and then pop up and say check out my car it did this and that. Too bad I verbalize myself too much, and have no problem showing my struggles even if it hurts my image or abilities.
Dave you have Email.

Ricardo,

If your looking for a way to cope with misery of owning a heavily modded SC, I suggest you simply lower your expectations and convince yourself that your doing all this for the love of the car. I've been down that road numerous times and I'm getting ready to do it again with my latest and greatest engine combo. I'm looking to make another 25 rwhp than I had before, but it could easily end up making 25 less :(

I like to call it the SC shuffle, it goes like this...one step forward, then two steps back, then three steps forward, then one step back...repeat until broke :)

David

ricardoa1
10-04-2008, 11:02 AM
I really just want to fix the problem, lowering my expectactions works for about two days, then the brain starts to think. Its an addiction like no other.

sccaSVT
10-05-2008, 09:31 AM
I really just want to fix the problem, lowering my expectactions works for about two days, then the brain starts to think. Its an addiction like no other.

Try heroine. In the long run, you'd probably spend less than on the car. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-004.gif

XxSlowpokexX
10-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Why arent you packing a turbo yet?
Time and priorities....Need to lean out the herd. But its the way to go. WIth my AR kit back on track If I keep my teal car I will go a differnt route..Turbo. It was my plan from the beginning. But finding somone that WANTS to tune non OBD cars around here is becomming an issue. I just havent had the time nor the want to do so. But I like the ide aof a turbo with a 5 speed. Maybe loose a lil low end power and gain a crudload on top. Id probably oversize the turbo to actually get some lag because to me even with my 285 Nittos the car just spins violently tires when I get on it down anywhere in first and was doing some ridiculous things going into 2nd(when I could actually do that).

In the age of twin screw blowers making and turbos making sim power in v8 cars in street trim I dont see a reason to run a twin screw just to say Look I have a blower. Heck even Eaton TVS stangs are making 700rwhp.

But a properly setup turbo car can make sim power at a lower boost level withless strain on your motor. You also have a great varience in turbo options which can help with your powerband.

To me the hardest thing is making great HP with an m90 because of its limitations. We havent reached the limitations of the twin screw within this club...Nor the m112 inmo

If your cars working 100% with the m112 then your done. Youll never be happy. If it isnt i'd work on getting it 100% before moving on.

And just from my one track experience with my 5 speed car....I KNOW I dont want to ever drag race it again...So perhaps my priorities are different then yours as well. For me its not about 1/4 times or max numbers...Now that may all change VERY soon with my other car:O)