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NEEDaSCbad

Registered User
Alright, first forgive me lack of ability to search properly. I admit I suck at it, but I couldn't find much.

I need your help, I want to start building a motor to swap into my future bird. However I have a lot of questions that need answering before I buy a motor or go rip one outta the junk yard.

To start I was figuring I would use a 99-04 mustang 3.8 as the base of my build. Why? I don't know. I was told somewhere along the line in my previous research(3yrs ago) that this is the best 3.8 to build off of. have any of you heard this, why would that be?

2nd Would that engine be a direct bolt in to a SC...Meaning would I have to modify the car structurally in any way to accomadate this motor? Same casting?

3rd Will this motor bolt up to the 5spds that are in the SC's? will i need a different bellhousing?

I guess the rest of my questions rest on these questions, so we'll start here.

Lastly, please feel free to constructively criticize me. I'm here to learn not get me feelings hurt. so if i said something stupid, let me know, but please explain to me why i sounded stupid and educate me.

Thanks guys,
Seth
 
I don't have a sc yet. I'm looking to build a pretty mean, yet streetable motor to swap in shortly after i buy the bird.

I guess i should tell you that my end goal is a twin turbo setup to produce around 600 hp/tq give or take 50. I'm not looking to be the nastiest thing on the street...just close to it:D it has to be my dd tho, otherwise i wouldn't do it. I don't want a race car, trailer queen. I want a legit street/strip car, and this is the setup i intend to acheive that with.

anyways that stuff all comes after we decide on which block to use.

now that link you provided talks about the difference between the THEN 3.8 and the changes made to the SC block. however i'm fairly certain that the later model 3.8's were changed quite a bit from the earlier one's. btw...i believe i was told the 99-04 blocks were the best bet by correspondance with tom morana.

EDIT: were the sc blocks forged?

Anyways i need the pro's and con's between the LATEST 3.8 and the SC blocks.
 
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Speed costs money - how fast you wanna go...

Later models had improved intakes and s'chargers, yes. That's why I asked what year your car is - makes little diff if you don't have car or engine yet :) With at least a 1/2 dozen V6 variants out there, outside of maybe building a stroker, I think I'd shun them all in favor of a SMB vvvV8 & SWB chassis w/solid axle rear dif. That would make for a great compound-huffer.

Why don't you completely outline your goals & budget, then lay those out clearly, and maybe you can get some direction that won't change between now and when you finally pull the trigger on whatever it is you get around to building. Good luck with your project.
 
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I will be buying the engine SOON!!! Meaning december at the latest. I want to build it over the winter.

As far as budget goes, i haven't set a budget nor do I intend too. I'll spend what i can, when i can type-of-thing. I don't have a set goal to hit speed/ET wise either. I want to do this build to go fast, future bragging rights with my buddies, but most of all for my own enjoyment.

I guess it can best be outlined as the following:

600HP/TQ
Daily Driven (Reliable):cool:
Built as cheaply as possible, meaning I don't have to use the top of the line parts and i'm not against retrofitting parts from different vehicles/applications. I will spend the money on the things that really need it, but i will cut costs where i can without sacrificing a lot of quality/reliability.
This is more of my own Hot Rod project(read:money pit) i guess.:eek:

So anyways, what motor should i start with based on the questions in the first post and now having more info of what i'm shooting for?
 
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Double screwed bird....

I assume you're dead set on a T-Bird build.
Go with a 5.0L..... Bolts in a T-Bird and to the 5 spd trans.
The solid axle is a good idea.
If you want to make 600hp, you better buy good stuff.
I guess it depends on what you call "streetable".

Danny
 
I assume you're dead set on a T-Bird build.
Go with a 5.0L..... Bolts in a T-Bird and to the 5 spd trans.
The solid axle is a good idea.
If you want to make 600hp, you better buy good stuff.
I guess it depends on what you call "streetable".

Danny

Yeah i'm pretty set on the t-bird. I want to build a v6, EVERYONE and their brother builds v8's. I really like the supercoupe's and that's the exact car i wanna build. Kinda set on it.
 
600hp will cost you some serious coin. you will need either an AR kit, or a larger turbo application with forged internals and extensive head work
 
no one with an SC has made near 600 hp, I believe the highest is Ira R with ~ 475 RWHP. If you want 600hp you better just swap in a V8.

If you want a 400 RWHP SC plan on dropping some serious $$$~ $5000+...probably closer to $8000-10k if you figure a drivetrain to hold up also. It will take a lot top line parts, custom parts and regular maintenance also.
 
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If you notice his original premise it was for a twin turbo V6 at the 600hp level---thats doable---and it can even be street driven---some---daily I doubt it---just to over the edge for a daily unless you have some pretty deep pockets. Another thing, anything over about 375 on street tires is just nuts and can get away from you in a hurry......If your goal is truly a daily driven--easily streetable and fun car thats not going to spend more time in the shop than on the street you need to bring the expectations down more around 400HP---thats about all the stock drivetrain can handle daily anyway---Did I hear bolt it to a five speed????? Fun, but hardly the quickest way to go with a turbo with the lag they have, true the twin smaller turbo will take that up some but its still there.
I have essentially the same goal for my 86 Buick Regal T-type but with an automatic and its not going to be a daily driver ever again.
I think the fords have much better heads than the buicks and are already set up for roller cams so you are one step up on me but mine only weighs 3400 pounds!!!!!! Just got to love it..................Dan
 
The SC 3.8L block is specific to the SC as it was built stronger etc than an N/A block. The stock SC crank is forged as are the rods The SC crank will not fit in an N/A 3.8 block of any year. The pistons are hypereuritic but most folks doing serious upgrades go to forged.

No one has really hit the limit of the SC bottom end. The blow ups you see are because of other issues like tuning problems etc.

Frit
 
To answer your orginal question the SC block is by far one of the stoutest blocks that ford ever produced in the 3.8 engine family. With that said an engine block is a CASTING meaning is a mold that is cast in IRON (usually.) Ford has produced some castings in the past that were of HIGH NICKEL content to improve stregth, but to my knowledge there isn't a 3.8 family block that is a forging or a high nickel content block.

If it were me and I were doing it over again (actually I am on my 4th Generation SC) I would use an SC block with a 4.2 truck crank. Modifications to it would be Head Bolts, main bolts, maybe a girdle, definately H-Beam Rods, and forged pistons all balanced with a BHJ balancer and SFI flexplate/flywheel. Just those modifications alone will cost:

Engine Block: $50-100
Rods: $325
Pistons: $675
Crank: $225
Balancer: $350
Machining and Balancing: $650-1000

So far that is approx: $2675 and we haven't even talked about cylinder heads ($2000ish,) cams ($250,) turbos ($1200,) headers (~$500-1000,) and other various parts injectors, tuning software, roller rockers, blah blah blah. Plan to spend an easy $10k plus for a twin turbo setup. I think you would have better luck with a bigger single turbo and an appropriately sized AR for street spooling.

Oh and you said 600HP/TQ and I'm assuming your talking crankshaft which is totally doable and fairly easy assuming you take the right path. You'd be looking at 450ish at the wheels through a 5spd.

In all reality building the motor is the easy part, just make sure is durable enough to stand up to the punishment you plan to throw at it with boost. Just remember if you alter something it will almost always impact some other portion of the car. The more boost you make the more fuel you need to push for example the more fuel means bigger injectors which means bigger fuel pump....etc etc.

Good luck, keep up posted.

Chris
 
right.. matt is running a stock sc block punched out, with forged bits, 4.2 truck crank, 83 lb/hr injectors (holy fuel, batman!) and 30 psi... with race gas, its 630-ish... 20psi and pump gas, 530... thats still incredible.. and he is running in the NINES. fastest v6 mustang... ever.
 
If you are buying a bare block and getting crank, rods, and pistons separately, then I think a 99-04 Mustang block would be just fine for you. The SC block is very good (I will not argue over which is better), but the real attraction is the SC CRANK, the ONLY forged crank available for the Ford 3.8. The Ford 4.2 truck crank is not forged, but it is much better than the typical cast cranks used in NA applications in the SC's day. (It's called nodular iron - the details are obscure, but it's better.) Now if you want to use the truck crank anyway, then why bother looking for a SC shortblock? Anyway, if you are using a turbo, you will probably get custom rods pistons, so your idea should be fine.
 
Thanks guys, this is the kinda feedback i was lookin for. Wzenheimer, your post is the type of break down and info that i need. Old_coot, thanks for addressing my post, however i don't want to lower my expectations that much. i've seen some very streetable 600hp cars, crank that is. I know that the hp that matters is the hp at the wheels but i'm talking crank hp and tq. btw t-types are B.A. cars too! thats probably my buddies next build when he's done with his jeep. s_mazza, i will be building from a bare block, and it sounds like the 99-04 block is the way to go.

Now for a "noob" question....what the heck is an AR kit? I haven't heard of it.

What other websites do you guys suggest for v6 performance builds?

What companies have you guys had good results with, performance wise?

Anyone have a spare 3.8 block sittin around ya wanna give me?:D

oh yeah, i'm not swapping in a v8 either!;)
 
Now for a "noob" question....what the heck is an AR kit? I haven't heard of it.

What other websites do you guys suggest for v6 performance builds?

What companies have you guys had good results with, performance wise?

AR is AutoRotor. There are a number of custom Supercoupe builds that used an AutoRotor (screw-type) compressor instead of an Eaton blower, which increases top-end power.

A great source for 3.8 builds is XR7Dave (Dave Dalke) of Supercoupes Unlimited (no website). He can tell you what you need in a lot of cases. You can also look up Morana V6 Racing and ... I would have said to check rpm-mustang.com, but either they are gone or my link is broken.
 
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