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View Full Version : New Build-up Together...No start...Help



frdlvr30
10-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Project has been on-going for about 15 months now. Finally got it together today and tried to fire it up, no start. Im posting this for Nickleman60, it is his car. Problem is that it has no injector fire. Has pressure at the rail. If I ground each individual injector, that particular cylinder will fire while cranking. Pulled the plugs and they were bone dry (until I started grounding injectors). Injectors have no pulse while cranking, but they do have B+. Swapped cam sensors, no go. Checked connectors, good. Pulled the new chip out of the pcm and tried it, nothing. Removed the cam sensor and checked that the synchronizer is spinning off the camshaft (mechanical), all is good there. Vehicle does have spark and will run on starting fluid. Pulled the pcm out of the car and tried in the another 94Sc, fires right up....

Specs on build up (if it matters and so you know what we are working with)
1994 SC 4R70W
.030 block
Weisco Pistons
6.2 H-beam rods
.520 lift cam
Dave Dalke CNC Big valve Heads
1.73 rockers
7.2 pushrods
Mpx blower
25% OD
New Custom FMIC
85mmTB
80mm MAF
60# injectors
Dave D SCT Flip Chip
Stall Converter
Modded Trans...
Long tubes
Bottle Fed.....Etc...

Basically Im looking for something that I maybe missing. Anyone had a similar experience or know of something else I should try?? My next step is to get a EVTM and an H-manual and start checking the EEC harness. Any help is greatly appreciated. Dave

fturner
10-18-2008, 09:59 PM
Injector timing comes from the crank sensor so you might want to take a boo at that. Is the shift light going out when your cranking the car over?

Frit

frdlvr30
10-18-2008, 10:01 PM
Does the cam sensor not control injector timing and crank sensor ignition???Or am I thinking EEC-V not EEC IV??

fturner
10-18-2008, 10:03 PM
The other way around. The EEC can use the crank sensor if the cam sensor fails to help with ignition timing.

Frit

XR7 Dave
10-18-2008, 10:07 PM
Carefully check all grounds. Battery, chassis, engine, EEC, etc. Go over all of that very carefully. The injector drivers rely on the ability of the EEC to get a good ground to the injectors. The power comes from the EEC relay but the ground switch comes from the EEC.

Another member had a similar issue and while it took quite some time to find the missing ground wire (to the motor) when they did the car fired right up.

frdlvr30
10-18-2008, 10:13 PM
Frit, So, the fact that it has spark means that the CPS is functioning and that the CKP is not, correct.

Dave,
Its funny that you mention that. We thought there was supposed to be a ground going to the rear of one of the heads. We were talking about this the last time I was working on the car. I checked his other cars (A 89sc and a 94sc) and I couldn't feel one back there. There is not one on this car. Does it need a ground on the back of one of the heads?? I know that the battery ground, chassis(passenger motor mount area) and EEC are good. We are missing an engine ground, arn't we??? I suspected this before like I said....

XR7 Dave
10-19-2008, 09:05 AM
No ground on the back of the head. Where is the motor grounded at?

Cam sensor does not provide injector pulse, only determines start time of firing order.

frdlvr30
10-19-2008, 12:42 PM
Problem was the ground on the radiator support. Ground was moved for the Fmic install. Vehicle now runs...Thanks for the insight Dave and Frit.

nickleman60
10-19-2008, 01:29 PM
Problem was the ground on the radiator support. Ground was moved for the Fmic install. Vehicle now runs...Thanks for the insight Dave and Frit.

This morning I scraped the area clean of paint where the original bolt was on the rad support, re-attached the ground wire and wha-la, engine started. I have now moved it back to the side of the rad support on the battery side but this time I made sure it had a good clean contact, works fine. Thanks for all of the input from everyone. Next item on the list is to drive it down to the muffler shop to get the exhaust closed up, straight longtube headers are loud as hell....................:eek:

nickleman60
10-19-2008, 05:46 PM
Everything is on the motor minus the wiper motor and cowl, gonna leave it off until I can make sure there's no problems on the back side of the motor.

CMac89
10-19-2008, 06:07 PM
Everything looks great! I thought I would point out that your throttle body isn't black!:D

400rwhp or bust, right? Good luck with everything.

Roadhawg
10-19-2008, 06:22 PM
Everything looks great! I thought I would point out that your throttle body isn't black!:D

400rwhp or bust, right? Good luck with everything.


Speaking of that, your alternator pulley is not black either.
I know someone who would not mind taking if off your hands if you decided to go with a black one. ;)

Duffy Floyd
10-19-2008, 06:33 PM
If everything is new and painted you might want to make sure your alternator case has a ground path to its mounting bracket or you may not get it to charge properly. I installed a powder coated alternator and made sure the backs of the "ears" had the coating ground off to provide a ground path as well as a corresponding spot on the bracket too.

nickleman60
10-19-2008, 07:07 PM
Speaking of that, your alternator pulley is not black either.
I know someone who would not mind taking if off your hands if you decided to go with a black one. ;)

HAHA, You funny man...............:D

The pulley and the CAI tube will stay shiney for now.............:confused:

Well, the driver ain't black neither and I don't plan on changing that ..........:D

nickleman60
10-19-2008, 07:22 PM
400rwhp or bust, right? Good luck with everything.

Well, right and wrong. Although I would like to have 400rwhp on motor I know that's not gonna happen. I will be dissapointed if I don't have at least 365rwhp plus, I'm not gonna lie. One thing is for sure, one way or spray I'll have over 400rwhp...........:rolleyes:

XR7 Dave
10-19-2008, 07:36 PM
Still didn't answer my question.....
Where is the motor grounded at?

nickleman60
10-19-2008, 07:57 PM
Still didn't answer my question.....

Dave, after reading everyones answers plus doing a search plus looking under the hood of my other '94 Sc auto this is what I have on both cars.

(1) Passenger side motor mount to frame.

(2) Negative battery cable runs to bottom bolt on starter, small ground wire on negative cable runs to radiator frame support, I just moved it from the top to the side to clean up the look.

Neither one of my cars have a ground on the drivers side motor mount or any where else that I could find. The passenger side motor mount was the only one with a studded bolt for an extra connection. On both cars all 3 bolts on the drivers side motor mount are just hex heads.

If it's suppose to have a ground on the drivers side motor mount to frame mine must have removed before I purchased both cars.

pmsheko
12-12-2008, 01:23 PM
this information is very useful im in the same boat u where im going to start looking for a bad ground but not sure where to start to look at any tips on where to start ,,,its excactly same problem start with starting fluid but , injector plus is failing tip tip tips please

SCTBIRD1173
12-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Pmsheko,

On the first page of the thread he said it was the ground off the neg. cable that goes to the radiator support. I'd start there.

frdlvr30
12-12-2008, 03:04 PM
No actually this problem was found by doing a EEC test. TP sensor was installed incorrectly and causing the sensor to indicate WOT. As you may or may not know, WOT while cranking cuts the injectors off. The reason that it would not start. We originally figured it was a ground problem due to some suggestions, and since I could find nothing else. After running another ground to chassis as a precaution, someone brought ove a scanner and found the TP indicating WOT with KOEO.

SCTBIRD1173
12-12-2008, 03:31 PM
Problem was the ground on the radiator support. Ground was moved for the Fmic install. Vehicle now runs...Thanks for the insight Dave and Frit.

Did I miss something?

frdlvr30
12-12-2008, 05:39 PM
It did start and run horribly, once .....Then the TP problem was found.

MagpoweredSC
12-12-2008, 07:02 PM
I had same problem with mine years ago. The ford tech said it runs on starting fluid but it is not sending a signal to fire the injectors. He checked/cleaned all grounds, while at the same time put on a new dis module. The combination of those fixed it but I think the final thing was the DIS.

ndiiorio
12-13-2008, 10:52 AM
is your fuel pump turning on? you might have a bad relay or ground at the relay. which is why you can start it with fluid but it doesnt stay running.

frdlvr30
12-13-2008, 12:44 PM
is your fuel pump turning on? you might have a bad relay or ground at the relay. which is why you can start it with fluid but it doesnt stay running.

Read the posts please...this has been fixed. It always had Fuel Pressure at the rail.....

pmsheko
12-13-2008, 03:44 PM
it stays running and has fuel pressure i drove it yesterday ..so what should i replace ? to fix it agine ? tp ?