New motor in and running but.................

nickleman60

Registered User
Took the car to the muffler shop this morning and got the exhaust closed up from installing the headers so now I'm ready to put some break-in miles on the motor before I go to the tuner/dyno to get dialed in and see what kind of power this thing will make......................:confused:

Right now it'll start up and idle kinda high,1000 rpm's, but I can put it in gear and ride around the block. After warming it up if I shut it off and then try to restart it immediately it won't start. It sounds like it's flooding out and will misfire a little. If I let it sit and cool all the way down then it'll start as mentioned before. While it's running I've been driving it down the road making sure the j-modded tranny and 3000 stall are working, never had a stall converter so I don't know what it's suppose to feel like. I haven't taken the motor above 3000 rpm's because I want to break it in first so as I learn things and work the bugs out this new motor I'll let everyone know my dyno numbers.
 

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Paint anything?

Check all ground paths/cables/connectors for corrosion. Replace any that are suspect. Check resistance between the DIS mount and battery neg. terminal. Install your own grounds for testing. Remove any paint on engine accessory mounting brackets that might inhibit connectivity.
 
You need to get a chip in that car with a conservative tune on it for that setup. It sounds like your very rich and that is not good for a motor.

Frit
 
You need to get a chip in that car with a conservative tune on it for that setup. It sounds like your very rich and that is not good for a motor.

Frit

I have a SCT chip with a switch and 2 tunes (1 base tune and 1 nitrous tune) that Dave Dalke flashed for me with my mods so I have switch set on the the base tune. The bad thing is that it's a brand new motor so I can't take it to the dyno until it's broken in. Would it be a good idea to take it to my tuner to just get it better dialed in so I can put some miles on it?
 
>The bad thing is that it's a brand new motor so I can't take it to the dyno until it's broken in.

show some hair :) - break it in on the dyno...
 
>The bad thing is that it's a brand new motor so I can't take it to the dyno until it's broken in.

show some hair :) - break it in on the dyno...

Agreed. The only way you can properly seat rings is to take it through harsh environments that it's going to see numerous times. The expansion of a cylinder isn't the same at part throttle, or lower RPMs, as it is at WOT and 6k RPM.

When I put motors together, it goes on the dyno and idles for 15 minutes, with a few revs, and to 7k-10k RPM it goes!!!!

Anyways, motor looks great. Let us know how everything goes on the dyno!
 
If would be much better to get some AFR data now than to drive it around screwed up for X miles. You don't have to flog it to death but a little dyno time won't hurt it.
 
If it was gonna break, it would have on startup!!

We do the same with our drag boat and offshore race engines, start..let warm up fully.....then WOT down the lake
 
OK, I'll go ahead and line up a date with the tuner so I can get this baby running right, It feels like it wants to take off and haul azzzzzzzzzzz........:rolleyes:
 
Different school of thoughts on breaking in an engine. On my last build its builder did not want me to beat on it too much and put on some miles before continiuosly beating on it.
But previous to those engines I broke them in beating the living out of it. But those engines did not last too long to see how well the rings sealed with the cyl wall. :(

You should be able to dyno it and get it straight and baby it for a few thousand miles. Just dont go reving to 7000rpms to find extra HP. I think with the MPX and a mild cam you should it should be out of breath by 5500rpms.
 
I don't think anyone is advocating 'beating' on an engine to break it in...simply break it in the way you expect to run it.
 
This is one of the reasons why I never understand why someone can spend $6k on an engine but won't break down and go and buy a $200 wideband. It's a valuable tool to use and have even if you're not doing your own tuning. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
OK, I'll go ahead and line up a date with the tuner so I can get this baby running right, It feels like it wants to take off and haul azzzzzzzzzzz........:rolleyes:

#1) My moto has always been "F___ it, it aint mine... Just change the oil before you take it to the dyno please...thats all I ask. It won't start when its warm because it is too rich. Warm is less dense, which requires less fuel. There is no command for less fuel until it is tuned. Give it a few more trips around the block, change the oil and let her fly...if anything happens please refer back to statement #1)

Let me know when the dyno is....
 
:confused:..Riding around when I try to give it gas quick it boggs down, I have to slowly press the pedal down in order to pick up speed.
 
:confused:..Riding around when I try to give it gas quick it boggs down, I have to slowly press the pedal down in order to pick up speed.

Well, like these guys said. Take it to the tuner. If it is that rich its just washing the cylinders down and possibly dumping fuel into the lower end anyway...
 
Pulled the dipstick this morning and took a whiff and it smelled like gas so I guess it is running rather rich. I guess I'll let it sit until I can get to the tuner/dyno.
 
Different school of thoughts on breaking in an engine. On my last build its builder did not want me to beat on it too much and put on some miles before continiuosly beating on it.
But previous to those engines I broke them in beating the living out of it. But those engines did not last too long to see how well the rings sealed with the cyl wall. :(

You should be able to dyno it and get it straight and baby it for a few thousand miles. Just dont go reving to 7000rpms to find extra HP. I think with the MPX and a mild cam you should it should be out of breath by 5500rpms.

It's not a different school of thought, its all about understanding what is going on during break in and acting accordingly.

During break in the rings are seating (wearing) rapidly. If you use synthetic oil and drive gently it can take over 10,000 miles for this to fully occur which might be longer than a lot of SC folks will even drive their cars in their entire lifetimes. But, breaking the rings in very gently can help attribute to long ring life.

If you break in the motor quickly, you are causing accelerated wear on the rings. The accelerated wear also generates heat. A new engine will make more heat than one that is broken in. Proper operating temperature is important, but excessive heat in the rings and pistons can result in engine damage. It is important not to hammer on the motor too long when it is fresh. There is a difference between a dyno pull that lasts 10 seconds and a WOT run down the freeway that runs 30 seconds as well as there is a big difference in doing one pull vs. doing 8 10 second dyno pulls in a row back to back looking for the last 10hp.

Just how much accelerated wear you want to generate is a function of how long you need the motor to last vs. how much power you need to make and when. For a race engine it is important to have full power as soon as possible. Race engines do not run 50,000 miles between rebuilds so longevity is not a concern.

Another thing that most people don't realize is that a new motor is more susceptible to the damages of detonation and is more likely to detonate than a broken in motor. This is important to consider for those who make a lot of boost on pump gas.

Remember I said that the rings are wearing quickly when an engine is new? Where do you think all the iron filings go? Into your oil. That is why it is necessary to change the oil frequently when the engine is new, and especially if you are going to flog on it when it is new. Remember that when you are "flogging" on it all those metal filings from the rings are circulating in your oil.

Excessive idling and steady load can be bad for a new engine also. Idling will not wash down the cylinders and often the vacuum generated during idle will not really pull oil up into the rings. This means that the rings will load up with abrasives and will not be cleaned or lubricated. This is bad (duh). Steady load will do the same thing only it will tend to over wash the cylinders while not drawing in oil. That is why aggressive normal driving, accelerating and decelerating are the best way to break in a street motor. Highway cruises, big city rush hour traffic, idling, and full throttle abuse are not the best ways to break in a motor if you want it to last awhile and perform well.

In Ricardo's case, I did the initial break in properly (about 25-50 miles) and then I dyno'd the car sufficiently to get a tune on the motor. I asked Ricardo to take it easy on the motor because it was making excessive boost and I was concerned about detonation under sustained load. He informed me afterwards that he ran the car under full throttle at high rpm and sustained load the first time he had the car out (on the way to the Shootout 2007) so I guess if it was going to do something it would have already done it by now. Motors that are broken in aggressively will always make a little more power than those that are broken in gently but at the cost of more wear and shorter over-all life.

You don't have to take my word on any of this, look it up yourself, you'll find many examples and explanations from experts that will all tell just about the same story.

Now as to the effects of a bad tune in a new motor, that is something entirely different. You can completely destroy valve guides and or wash down the cylinder walls and really hurt the motor in 15 minutes from start up if AFR is badly wrong. Any chip can only set up the basic parameters necessary to run before startup. Things like MAF tables, injector values, temperature settings, etc. But if you have something like insufficient fuel pressure, an incorrectly wired injector lead, a bad 02 sensor, etc. then the chip can't possibly do anything about any of that.

It can be very hard to tell on a brand new motor if you have an issue of sorts to deal with. When we start our new carbureted motors on the stand it is always a bit of a nervous session until we get some plug readings and EGT results. Things can go wrong very quickly but once the motor is running smoothly then everything is fine. If you dont' get to the "running smoothly" part quickly then there is LARGE cause for concern. Do NOT drive the car round hoping that it will clear out and fix itself because you will stand a very good chance of doing permanent damage to something in the process.

If you don't have any datalogging capability (as Jason pointed out, you SHOULD have something), then it would be best to run the last known good setup on the new motor. This might mean breaking it in with stock MAF and injectors (!). Yes, contrary to popular belief apparently, you CAN run the stock injectors on any SC motor up to at least about 4000rpm, especially under part throttle conditions. This may give you the chance to verify that mechanically everything is sound and complete initial ring break in and seal without worrying about flooding the motor with 60lb injectors.

I will repeat what Jason said again. If you have a large investment in your motor, it should follow that you spend the money on some datalogging equipment. I have always found it interesting (not pointing any fingers here, just making a statement) that people are willing to pay money to someone to dyno and tune their car (generally $500-800) which will carry no guarantee and is a one time deal that might not even be what you want, but they don't want to spend that same amount of money on tools that will last and can be re-used many many times or even continually if you are the nervous type, that will help them to diagnose their own problems and can be used to verify their tune any time they so choose. For anyone contemplating going to the race track this should be a complete no-brainer.

Technically the motor should run fine with the big injectors, MAF and chip. The parameters are correct in the chip. However, there are unknowns that simply cannot be accounted for with a mail order chip and it will be further complicated by not knowing if there is a mechanical issue (high probability) causing problems. If we had some data from the motor or EEC at this point we'd be a lot closer to solving the questions.
 
How could I resist....:eek: :D But i did not go too high in the RPMS.

I got about 3500k on it I am now running syntetic.
 
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