Suspension Mods, Weight

B

Belisarius

Registered User
Has anyone looked into re-wiring the ARC? Wouldn't it be cool if one could turn on/off each shock manually? How hard would it be to adapt the ARC control to adjustable Koni shocks such that one could adjust their shocks from inside the car?

When I picked up my '95 SC the front suspension was quite worn. The car pulls to the right even after one shop and the dealer aligned it. The dealer even said they'd adjust it so it would drive straight. I asked the service adviser what she thought needed to be done to fix the car and she repeated what she said before. No help at all.

I need to replace a bunch of stuff, nearly every ball joint cover on the front was cracked, and I'm wondering who's installed what?

Has anyone installed any of the SCP suspension braces? My friend, a vintage race car restorer and master mechanic, warns to watch out for new stress location when adding braces. He says that when one area is strengthened the stress will travel to a different area. Anyone familiar with this? The car feels fine to me with the stock '95 SC swaybars. Has anyone installed anything larger? Are the stock bars hollow?

I'd like to install the urethane SCP bushings. Anyone have any experience with a full urethane setup? I did urethane on my old Volvo 240s so I'm familiar with the results on that car.
 
You have lots of questions, and searching the forums to answers for each one on its own would probably help you out. But with that said, I'll offer what help I can.

Urethane bushings--did the full set on my LX back when MN12perf was the one selling it. I wouldn't do it again, I feel it rides harsher than is necessary. I haven't put urethane bushings on my SC and it handles better than the lighter LX.

Shocks--Just get a set of Konis, adjust them between 1/2 and 1-turn down from full firm and leave them there.

Sway bars--lots of guys have lots of opinions here. I like the balance of a solid 1-1/4 front and 1-1/8 rear bar. There are no good options for hollow bars.

Suspension braces--again, I have all of them on my LX and none of them on my SC. I ran each car on identical tires on a small road course and the SC was 1/2 second faster per lap. In my opinion a good subframe connector design would be much better than any of the current braces out there.

As for weight, there are lots of ways to shed pounds from these cars. I've removed over 150 pounds from mine in the last year or so without gutting the interior or removing any sound deadening. It should currently be around 3545 pounds with 1/8 tank of gas.
 
>How hard would it be to adapt the ARC control to adjustable Koni shocks such that one could adjust their shocks from inside the car?

Which Konis are you looking at?
prodimage_1022

The SC ARC system includes several sensors and a separate controller - the manual switch simply puts the system into automatic (on demand) or full-time engagement.

If you propose to use that system, I would expect considerable work before it could be able to control 'adjustment' that the Konis expect. The electric Konis, as an example, have 12 settings and data acquisition...you'd have to add the Koni switches and they would expect to be used with whatever controller (MSD?) Koni provides. I don't see that the Koni system supports sensors....?

The electric Konis come with their own control system - they should be kept together - unless of course you have full schematics and the ability to comprehensively hybridize :)

>When I picked up my '95 SC the front suspension was quite worn. The car pulls to the right even after one shop and the dealer aligned it. The dealer even said they'd adjust it so it would drive straight. I asked the service adviser what she thought needed to be done to fix the car and she repeated what she said before. No help at all.

Were the front tires/wheel moved from one side to the other to test for radial pull? Have you considered putting the car on a frame machine to see if the body is racked from a past accident? Was the car 4-wheel aligned? Why was it sent for alignment if suspension parts still need to be replaced? Pull the back seat and check the body for cracks...get under it and it and check the firewall as well.
 
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Which braces do you have on your LX? I've got JL Braces on my LX and think it handles well, though I don't feel I've put it through it's paces. I've got larger sway bars (1 3/8" front and rear Addco), Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, and poly bushings plus the JL braces.

-Melon
 
My LX has a JL STB, rear tubular STB (I forget who made it), SCP lower engine cradle braces and the SCP rear torsional load brace. This weekend I took the Koni/Eibach setup that was on my SC and installed them in place of the Bilstein/Vogtland combo that was on the LX. The Bilsteins were quite old and worn so the improvement was noticeable. Sway bars are currently stock...if I go with bigger bars on my SC for the next race season I'll swap my current SC bar setup onto the LX.
 
Not to change the subject or anything but I always wondered, Will, what did you do to lighten the car? It still looks pretty stock to me.

Ira
 
Ira R. said:
Not to change the subject or anything but I always wondered, Will, what did you do to lighten the car? It still looks pretty stock to me.

Ira
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Thank you, that's the idea. To begin with, let me mention this is a low-optioned, non-sunroof car. Here's a list of what I've done and how much weight it's saved.

Removed all stereo equipment: 30 pounds
VFN fiberglass hood: 32 pounds
Recaro seats: 26 pounds/pair
Braille battery & mount: 18 pounds
Aluminum rearend: 6 pounds
Aluminum driveshaft: 5 pounds
Front coilover conversion: 16 pounds
Rear seat & belts: 39 pounds (removed only for SCCA National Tour events, not local stuff)

I know there's something else I've done but I can't think of it off the top of my head. There's lots more I can do to shed pounds: lighter wheels, 2-piece rotors, aluminum LCAs...there's 55-60 pounds right there. Also, Powermaster just introduced a 3.5-pound battery that I'm interested in checking out, so there's another 8 pounds if that works out. A rule change this year means I'm thinking of having a custom fiberglass decklid built. Custom mandrel-bent IC tubes would also save a few pounds. You could build an SC considerably lighter than mine if you were willing to give up the Cobra R brakes, 17x9 wheels, double IC, Snow pump, big sway bars, True Trac diff, Control Freak diff cover, and lowering springs. All those things add weight to my car but for what I use the car for they're well worth the weight.
 
Mercutio said:
Thank you, that's the idea. To begin with, let me mention this is a low-optioned, non-sunroof car. Here's a list of what I've done and how much weight it's saved.

Removed all stereo equipment: 30 pounds
VFN fiberglass hood: 32 pounds
Recaro seats: 26 pounds/pair
Braille battery & mount: 18 pounds
Aluminum rearend: 6 pounds
Aluminum driveshaft: 5 pounds
Front coilover conversion: 16 pounds
Rear seat & belts: 39 pounds (removed only for SCCA National Tour events, not local stuff)

I know there's something else I've done but I can't think of it off the top of my head. There's lots more I can do to shed pounds: lighter wheels, 2-piece rotors, aluminum LCAs...there's 55-60 pounds right there. Also, Powermaster just introduced a 3.5-pound battery that I'm interested in checking out, so there's another 8 pounds if that works out. A rule change this year means I'm thinking of having a custom fiberglass decklid built. Custom mandrel-bent IC tubes would also save a few pounds. You could build an SC considerably lighter than mine if you were willing to give up the Cobra R brakes, 17x9 wheels, double IC, Snow pump, big sway bars, True Trac diff, Control Freak diff cover, and lowering springs. All those things add weight to my car but for what I use the car for they're well worth the weight.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Thanks.

Ira
 
No Wrecks.

KMT said:
Were the front tires/wheel moved from one side to the other to test for radial pull? Have you considered putting the car on a frame machine to see if the body is racked from a past accident? Was the car 4-wheel aligned? Why was it sent for alignment if suspension parts still need to be replaced? Pull the back seat and check the body for cracks...get under it and it and check the firewall as well.
Click to expand...

My Dad owned the car since new and it's never been in an accident. There's a bit of underbody damage on the passenger side behind the front wheel. Based on what I've seen he may have driven over something big in the road and bent something. I'm planning to get new suspension parts and rebuilding the front end anyway because everything looks warn enough as it is.
 
Glass hood

Mercutio said:
VFN fiberglass hood: 32 pounds
Click to expand...
Who is VFN and is the hood a stock appearing design. I have a '95 and would like the most stock appearing hood.
Front coilover conversion: 16 pounds
Click to expand...
Where did the coilovers come from. I'm in need of new shocks and am interested in handling vs. straight line performance.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Searches

Mercutio said:
You have lots of questions, and searching the forums to answers for each one on its own would probably help you out. But with that said, I'll offer what help I can.
Click to expand...

I've already done quite a few searches. I don't really care for the way the BBS search works. I also have trouble finding the right combination of keywords.

Shocks--Just get a set of Konis, adjust them between 1/2 and 1-turn down from full firm and leave them there.
Click to expand...

Any specific model number?

Sway bars--lots of guys have lots of opinions here. I like the balance of a solid 1-1/4 front and 1-1/8 rear bar. There are no good options for hollow bars.
Click to expand...

My question was in part asking if the stock bars were hollow. I was wondering if deleting the stock possibly hollow bars and adding solid bars was too much of a weight penalty?

Suspension braces--again, I have all of them on my LX and none of them on my SC. I ran each car on identical tires on a small road course and the SC was 1/2 second faster per lap. In my opinion a good subframe connector design would be much better than any of the current braces out there.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
 
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Mercutio said:
My LX has a JL STB, rear tubular STB (I forget who made it), SCP lower engine cradle braces and the SCP rear torsional load brace. This weekend I took the Koni/Eibach setup that was on my SC and installed them in place of the Bilstein/Vogtland combo that was on the LX. The Bilsteins were quite old and worn so the improvement was noticeable. Sway bars are currently stock...if I go with bigger bars on my SC for the next race season I'll swap my current SC bar setup onto the LX.
Click to expand...

Where did you get the rear STB? Do you recall?

Did you delete ARC parts? What is involved there? Better yet, which shop manual should I get? Haynes? Chilton? Bentley? Alldata?
 
Information on my coilovers is here: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103543.

As for your sway bars, they're not hollow. Yes, the big bars will increase weight a bit but if you're into handling I think they're worth it.

Google VFN and the first result you get is the correct one. They have a stock style 96-97 hood and a cowl style 96-97 hood. No one makes a stock style 94-95 fiberglass hood.

The rear STB is one that a user on TCCoA was building and selling for a while. I installed it over 3 years ago, so I forget the specifics. It would not be hard to build one yourself if you can weld.

My SC came with Konis on it when I bought it, so I can't give you too much help on the ARC thing. But I really don't think it's hard. Just unplug the sensors and remove the activators. The front Koni part numbers are in the thread above. I forget the rear part number, but it's the only Koni yellow shock to fit the 89-97 Tbird.
 
Mercutio said:
Information on my coilovers is here:
Google VFN and the first result you get is the correct one. They have a stock style 96-97 hood and a cowl style 96-97 hood. No one makes a stock style 94-95 fiberglass hood.
Click to expand...

Will a 96-97 hood fit my car?

Should I sign as Benvolio?
 
The 96-97 hood will bolt up and fit, but it will look a bit odd if you don't swap over to the 96-97 headlights too. You'll want the 96-97 hood latch as well.
 
This is what the nose looks like with the changes Will is talking about.

Ira
 

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Johnny Langton. He's a longtime member over on TCCoA. He quite making his braces a while back but it's been a long time since I've been on that site, so maybe he's making them again.
 
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