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View Full Version : clutch master and slave cylinder information needed for T56 swap



jludorf
11-10-2008, 06:03 PM
I am looking for some information on our current clutch master and slave cylinder. We have a slave cylinder that will work perfect but I am trying to decide if i need to change the master cylinder too. The slave I have been quoted requires a master cylinder that has a 1" throw and 3/4" bore. In order for this to work I need make sure the caracteristics of the master will work with the slave properly. I am not using a conventional clutch to try and keep things light. I found a shop that has done several 302 conversions for hot rods using a hydraulic clutch. here is what we have so far. I have a LT1 transmission because LS1's are harder to find locally and shipping easily make up for the extra cost to convert this one.

I know people have been asking what the cost are so here are my costs so far

T56 swap parts
- LT1 T56 Transmission $600-$1500 If you go LS1 you do not need to go with the input shaft and cover below
-macleod 8750-06 scattershield kit (includes modified pilot bushing to suit the LS1 input shaft and block plate) $450
-front cover plate( ford version)$200 ( the quick time unit will require a 157 tooth flywheel)
-LS1/302 style input shaft 26 spline $225
-macleod Hydraulic master and slave system (I may not need the master if I can get some specs) The have spacers set up for most applications I am going to measure the distance and they will send this once I have the mechanical end sorted out) 460-560 depending on what is needed
-flywheel the macleod flywheel works with the 164 tooth sc flywheel (Corrected 168 was inclrrect)
-clutch I am going to use a Macleod RST twin clutch with 26 splines $750.00. this has lighter than stock feel and suitable for tons of Hp and still has a light clutch which will be nice.
- I will have to have a new drive shaft made to suit the extra length and sell my 4" aluminium one $500-750 again depend on preference on material
- the trans brace will need to be modified as required. I'll do the fab myself so it will be pretty cheap
- I will be swaping in a set of 411 or 430 gears which should be about the same highway rpm as either 273 or 308 $500.00

Anyhow the total cost for parts is not exactly cheap but I found when shifting close to 6k My m5r2 was just not liking it and most often crunched into gear. If I shifted around 5k it worked fine. It was a rebuilt unit but had brass syncros.


I am quite sure if you are able to find most of the items used you will save considerably I'm just not that way I prefer new parts.

talonhead
11-13-2008, 01:47 AM
I'm in the process of saving to rebuild my engine, but I have an LS1 t56 using a mcleod bellhousing using oem flywheel and sach's pressure plate and mcleod reverse hub disc with gm spline and ford oem master/slave.
Had to ream out the slave to fit over the splines and chamfer the trans side due to size of input shaft at trans. The xmember fit is a little bit of a PIA as 6th gear takes out most of the depth of the oem xmember and torques the xmem, I'm looking at adding a leg to the xmem to stabilize it.
Not going to happen til spring when I get home.
Good luck.
MikeH

Ghost
11-13-2008, 06:13 AM
I'm in the process of mating a T56 to the SC motor, but in a different car (XR4Ti). Have you looked at the QuickTime bellhousings? They are a really nice part and they center nicely, you'd need part# RM8030 or RM8031 depending on which T56 front plate you go with. You'll need a zero balance 157T flywheel, 164 is only for the the auto, the stock T5 Mustang (and maybe the SC 11" clutch) and the 4.6.
You can also use the 26 tooth Cobra input shaft, just make sure that your tranny has the 2.66 first gear or count the gear teeth on yours and make sure your new input matches. You can also use a stock 302 pilot bushing in the SC crankshaft as long as you use a Cobra input shaft.

My tranny started out as an 03 Cobra unit, it's getting an LS1 mainshaft, tailshaft housing, shift rod and shifter. It's also getting a full rebuild including the billet synchro keys, 26T input, bronze fork pads and a bronze shifter isolator. Total so far is $3200, including the QuickTime bell, but not including the clutch. I expect to hit $4K or so by the time I'm done.

jludorf
11-13-2008, 01:09 PM
The bellhousing I have will work with the 164 tooth flywheel that was used on the 302 engine ( I know 157 tooth is available too but that is not the way I am going ahead with) I may still be able to use the stock 168 tooth sc flywheel with the macleod bellhousing, they have never seen the 168 tooth flywheel so they were unsure so I will test fit it before I change the flywheel to 164 tooth.


My main concern is the technical data for the factory sc master and slave cylinders so I can determine if the SC master is sufficiently sized to operate the macleod slave cylinder I am looking at.

The crossmember is not a big concern I'll just make a new one. My seats and carpet will be out when I get to that point so I can just weld in new mounting point to suit as required and brace back to the sc stock mounting points for extra strength.

John

XxSlowpokexX
11-13-2008, 02:46 PM
Don't forget shifter location. A gto shifter should help bring it back where it should be. I also like the idea of using a clutch fork with an external slave so you can make adjustments without pulling the transmision. I'm also looking into doing this when money is on my side

XR7 Dave
11-13-2008, 06:03 PM
The bellhousing I have will work with the 164 tooth flywheel that was used on the 302 engine ( I know 157 tooth is available too but that is not the way I am going ahead with) I may still be able to use the stock 168 tooth sc flywheel with the macleod bellhousing, they have never seen the 168 tooth flywheel so they were unsure so I will test fit it before I change the flywheel to 164 tooth.



Where did you get this 168 tooth idea from? :confused:

fastsc92
11-13-2008, 06:30 PM
this is kind of thread hijacking, but how does the TKO fit into the mix? Seems like it would be a much better option if it can fit.

jludorf
11-13-2008, 08:24 PM
Dave,
I'm not sure for some reason I have that written down next to my notes opps:confused:: I'll go count them when I get home:o

Fastsc92
I do not see the point of the TKO for me, as the whole point of the T56 is to allow a higher numerical gear in the difff, and still keep the highway rpms down. I loved my 3.55 in the city but a bit too high on the highway. The two overdrives help in this area considerably.

Damon,
Shifter location should be ok it is only an inch forward of the M5R2 and the opening is pretty big so I'll be OK with a short shifter on this transmission. The GTOs were not sold up here so it is not an easy find plus the one I found seems to be in really good shape.

John

XxSlowpokexX
11-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Hohn not the whole transmission..Just the shifter. It is offset back a bit. Bolts right to that transmission you have from my understanding

jludorf
11-14-2008, 01:31 AM
Damon,
I'll have to check that out.

David,

Well the 164 tooth flywheel will make things easier, I'm not sure how I cam up with 168 I wrote it down from somewhere.


I must have misunderstood. I wonder if the clutch I bought will work with my spec flywheel, I like the idea of the double disc clutch. That solves one issue not I just need to find some info on the master cylinder for the sc. Macleod said I shopuld change to thiers as theyare concerned I will either not have enough stroke or too much stroke if the slave is not sized correctly which will cause problems. Any suggestions or specs available?

jludorf
11-14-2008, 01:41 AM
What Ford is the slave out of and if the master from the sc or ? can you show pictures of what mods were done to the slave to make it fit? This it the only thing left to sort out.




I'm in the process of saving to rebuild my engine, but I have an LS1 t56 using a mcleod bellhousing using oem flywheel and sach's pressure plate and mcleod reverse hub disc with gm spline and ford oem master/slave.
Had to ream out the slave to fit over the splines and chamfer the trans side due to size of input shaft at trans. The xmember fit is a little bit of a PIA as 6th gear takes out most of the depth of the oem xmember and torques the xmem, I'm looking at adding a leg to the xmem to stabilize it.
Not going to happen til spring when I get home.
Good luck.
MikeH

talonhead
12-23-2008, 09:44 PM
The GTO shifter with the LT/LS1 will move the shifter waaaay to far back. I have a Hurst Billet+ and it sits about 3/4- 1" forward of original location. But... the base/pivot sits higher. Had to notch the opening a little. Haven't decided what I going to come up with to mod the console as the stick contacts the front side of the oem opening. But now that I'm back I can get a head start on getting the engine back together and running by spring.
Still have to clear out the garage to get started and get some heat going.

Happy holidays everyone, stay warm and safe.
MikeH

talonhead
01-02-2009, 09:03 PM
My slave and master are SC oem (slave I.D. is opened up to fit over the LS1 splines and the mounting face is beveled to clear the chamfer of the input shaft at the front plate). Got part of the garage cleaned out so I can pull the eng/trans and get started on the engine.
MikeH

davec73
12-04-2014, 12:59 AM
The slave and master cylinder I am planning on using is the wildwood 206-10372 and McLeod 1400-22 for the lt1, does this sound correct from what you came up with John? I am also planning on using a McLeod rst clutch with the frpp t56 bell housing. The question I have is the bracket kit you modified your stock pedal setup with is 200 bucks from American powertrain and a wildwood clutch pedal meant to fit the wildwood master cylinder is 65 bucks. I am thinking using the wildwood clutch pedal might be a better more cost effective option than modifying the stock pedal setup.