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View Full Version : Wiseco OE replacement FORGED pistons...*UPDATED 2/20/09* (CLOSED)



XR7 Dave
11-13-2008, 11:48 AM
Edit: Release date is March 13th. Now taking orders!

As many of you know I've been working with Wiseco to bring you custom forged pistons for your SC motors for some time now. By building this relationship and showing a proven track record of selling these pistons (over 50 sets in 2 years), we have been able to get the attention of the higher ups at Wiseco.

Because of this overwhelming support of this club in purchasing Wiseco pistons through me, I have been able to negotiate a new deal with Wiseco to where they have agreed to build an off-the-shelf forged piston for us! Yes, that will be a forged piston in their "Pro Tru" line that will be a direct replacement for the stock pistons which can also be fit to a CAT 5.915" H-beam rod.

These pistons will be direct drop in replacements for all 89-95 SC's giving 8.5:1 compression, machined to accept either full floating or press fit applications depending on year, and will NOT require rebalancing of the motor.

With custom piston packages running upwards to $750 these days and a proper engine balance starting at $200 and up, these pistons can result in a savings of over $500 (!)

Wiseco will have shelf stock available in about 4 weeks which you can order direct from them for $510 + shipping. This includes the pistons, rings, and pins.

From Supercoupes Unlimited these piston sets (pistons, rings, pins) will cost $475 shipped (lower 48) which when compared to the old hyperutectic pistons (and rings) from Sealed Power ($330 at Rock Auto when you can get them), is actually about the bargain of the century for SC owners.

They will be available in .020" and .030" with no waiting (once they hit the shelves).

Part #'s:

PT-113-H2 (.020")
PT-113-H3 (.030")

There you go, proof that at least some parts manufactures will listen when we speak. Also one more reason why it also pays to channel some of your buying power through someone who is working on your behalf instead of sourcing parts individually through local channels. By working together to present one voice, we can actually accomplish good things from time to time.


:)

rzimmerl
11-13-2008, 12:11 PM
I think a big thanks goes out to SCU, for all the hard work in getting a new product developed and released.

What kind of ring packages will be available for these pistons?

ricardoa1
11-13-2008, 12:12 PM
Great Job. So it will they need special machining if they are being used with the CAT rods or will it interchange.

superdadsc
11-13-2008, 12:33 PM
Thank you Dave! We as a community are lucky to have you!:D:D:D

Stephen

XR7 Dave
11-13-2008, 12:49 PM
What kind of ring packages will be available for these pistons?

The pistons come with an OE style moly ring package. Upgrades to a Total Seal ring are available if purchased through me. Pricing is yet to be determined on the Total Seal upgrade.


So it will they need special machining if they are being used with the CAT rods or will it interchange.

The CAT 5.915 rods are a direct bolt in. Rebalancing will not be required as the CAT rod lists out at the same weight as an OE connecting rod but take it under advisement that any performance rebuild really should include balancing regardless so with that being said "final balance specifications are the responsibility of the engine builder." I will be offering the CAT rods along side the pistons but final pricing details have not been determined. Expect them to be less expensive than can be purchased elsewhere.

frdlvr30
11-13-2008, 11:36 PM
Dave,
Another thanks for what you do and have done for this community. Any reason these wont work with the scat 5.956 H-Beam rods?

no164ford
11-14-2008, 01:48 AM
Are these stock compression only I forget what itis can you get them in 10:1 CR? How much are the 5.915" Cat rods going for? Bonus check in a few weeks time to get some goodies:D

XR7 Dave
11-14-2008, 08:41 AM
Any reason these wont work with the scat 5.956 H-Beam rods? The compression distance is set for stock length rods. If you already have the 351W rods and wanted to use these pistons I can cut them down .040" but that would cost extra. If you have not already bought the rods then it would only make sense to get the correct rods.


Are these stock compression only I forget what itis can you get them in 10:1 CR? These are stock 94/5 compression ratio. They are not available in custom compression ratio's. If you want a custom piston then that option is always available under our normal custom piston program but of course that costs more. These are an "on the shelf" piston, not a custom piston.


How much are the 5.915" Cat rods going for?
They are $359+ shipping on Ebay right now. As I said above, I will be able to offer them for less by the time the pistons are ready but I do not have pricing yet.

tydlwavs
11-14-2008, 08:44 AM
Great news.

CMac89
11-14-2008, 12:09 PM
What is the mass of the pistons and the pins?

frdlvr30
11-14-2008, 02:42 PM
I have another set of brand new 5.956's. Forgive me, but I don't know what a "Cat" rod is. Is this a stock type, I beam, or H-beam?? Cost of milling the pistons .040" is about how much?? The reason for wanting these and not the custom, is the fact that the block I'm using is low mileage and I would prefer std bore if possible.

XR7 Dave
11-14-2008, 03:30 PM
What is the mass of the pistons and the pins?

Piston/pin combination is such that it matches the OE piston/pin assembly (about 680gm for the combo).


I have another set of brand new 5.956's. Forgive me, but I don't know what a "Cat" rod is. Is this a stock type, I beam, or H-beam?? Cost of milling the pistons .040" is about how much?? The reason for wanting these and not the custom, is the fact that the block I'm using is low mileage and I would prefer std bore if possible.

CAT is a brand of connecting rod. The design that is being referred to here is a 4340 H-beam rod identical in design to an Eagle or SCAT.

Cost to trim the piston decks is $75.

Custom pistons are available in any bore size you want including std. There is a significant cost difference but there are advantages also such as being able to select your compression ratio and lighter weight.

XxSlowpokexX
11-15-2008, 04:13 PM
from a comparative standpoint, is a majority of the assymbly weight at the big end of rod or at the piston?

What are the piston weights in comparison to stock?

XR7 Dave
11-15-2008, 05:54 PM
from a comparative standpoint, is a majority of the assymbly weight at the big end of rod or at the piston?

What are the piston weights in comparison to stock?

The pistons weigh exactly the same as stock (as I said above). The whole point of these pistons is to offer a direct replacement so that anyone rebuilding their motor can stick these pistons in, no modifications or special work required when using stock connecting rods.

As for the CAT rods, the stock rod big end is heavier than the H-beams so if you run the H-beams you really need to rebalance the motor.

XxSlowpokexX
11-16-2008, 02:50 AM
Originally Posted by CMac89
What is the mass of the pistons and the pins?

Piston/pin combination is such that it matches the OE piston/pin assembly (about 680gm for the combo).

This is what threw me off. I was totally thinking something else

Good to know there is a good forged piston replacement for us out there

Dirtyd0g
11-16-2008, 01:24 PM
Good deal Dave. I was just looking for pistons for a SC for a guy and that is half of what anyone else wants.I recently talked to the guys at Wiseco at SEMA. Great guys to deal with I just ordered a bunch of piston installer sleeves. Everybody should get the one for their pistons when they get pistons. Much better than ring compressor pliers.
Alan

Mike8675309
11-16-2008, 03:36 PM
I hope people really appreciate how great of a deal this is. A Stock Replacement Forged Piston is perfect for a huge number of 3.8 block owners including those N/A guys wanting to add boost.

this will significantly decrease the cost of building a full forged solution.

Toms-SC
11-16-2008, 03:41 PM
Great job! I don't even need a set but tempted to order because so much work went into this.

XR7 Dave
01-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Update 12/31/08.

Wiseco has delayed introduction until the end of Jan. Ugh.

CAT H-beam rods are going to be $325/set and I have those in stock right now.

Flex
01-06-2009, 11:53 PM
Wow, I paid $230 for mine in Sepember of 2007. Same seller is now asking $349 for them.

Great pricing on the pistons. That's way less the the last run. Great job David.

Just to remind everyone that these are cap screws and not factory style rods so they need to be installed differently which may affect bearing clearances.

XR7 Dave
01-07-2009, 12:00 AM
The cost of anything metal has gone up dramatically in the past two years. These pistons are less expensive only because they are not custom like yours were. Yours are a racing grade piston, these are a high performance OE replacement (forged of course!). The first set of custom pistons I bought from Wiseco back in 2006 were $450. The same set today is just over $700. :eek:

Flex
01-07-2009, 12:16 AM
Got you David. Still, compared to the price of the stock replacement he's sold elsewhere, it's a no brainer.

BLOWN38
01-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Just saw this. Way to go Dave!:cool:

92bird
01-11-2009, 03:33 PM
Hey Dave,

Any ideas on the total cost of these with total seal gapless rings?

I'm glad I didn't buy those sealed power pistons yet. I will almost certainly be purchasing these when they are available. Provided I don't get laid off this month :(

Jeramie

XR7 Dave
02-20-2009, 10:44 AM
Update:

After numerous delays these pistons are now slated for in-stock March 13th. I have placed an order for the first 4 sets and can increase that based on demand so if you want some of the first batch, you can contact me via email to get your deposit in. Let me know if you are waiting patiently for these to come out and I'll add you to my list. Otherwise the pistons will be "on the shelf" after the 13th so they can be ordered any time after that.

pablon2
02-20-2009, 02:19 PM
Sounds great. Now we just need to convince Fel-pro to execute another run of PN# 26199PT headgaskets.

XR7 Dave
02-21-2009, 09:28 AM
Hey Dave,

Any ideas on the total cost of these with total seal gapless rings?

I'm glad I didn't buy those sealed power pistons yet. I will almost certainly be purchasing these when they are available. Provided I don't get laid off this month :(

Jeramie

What size do you want? I'm putting in the order now. Total Seal rings will add $100 to the cost.

92bird
02-21-2009, 01:44 PM
Count me out, won't be buying any parts for the SC until further notice. Sorry.

lineboy55
02-22-2009, 02:54 AM
Well, i am going to head over to the engine builder today (monday) and have the block torn down. I will have him measure the cyl walls and email you the size that they are, I might need a set of these over sized. I will get back to you.

Flex
02-22-2009, 01:32 PM
Count me out, won't be buying any parts for the SC until further notice. Sorry.

Why, what happened dude?

THE BIRDMAN
03-02-2009, 10:14 AM
Dave you say these are an OE replacement Forged piston and not a racing piston. So what would you think the limits RPM/Boost/HP wise would be on these pistons when used with the CAT rods? Do you think it would be possible to run nitrous say a 100 shot with these also or would that require going to the custom series pistons? I'm just trying to see where the line is to warrant upgrading to the custom ones over these. As the pricing is great for these with the CAT rods. Oh and Thanks for making this happen it's great to see we have a Forged off the self piston available for our cars now.



Jay

XR7 Dave
03-03-2009, 08:31 PM
They don't have a power limit per se. There is no reason to think that these pistons will not handle 400rwhp + 150hp nitrous but to keep costs down, they were not designed with that in mind. They don't have a pressure balance groove, anti-detonation grooves, or a lowered ring package.

They are plenty beefy, they are made from the same 2618 alloy forgings as the racing pistons, but are heavier and lack some of the trick features.

THE BIRDMAN
03-04-2009, 02:51 PM
Cool thanks for the info Dave.



Jay

scxr7
07-18-2009, 10:48 AM
hey dave, I was just on wiseco's website and searched all of their catalogs, sport comp, pro tru, and domestic auto. There was nothing about ford 232/3.8l pistons. are these on the shelf yet?

XR7 Dave
07-18-2009, 02:35 PM
They aren't in the 09 Catalog because they were not developed until well after the deadlines. For now the best thing to do is order through me, although if you call Wiseco you can order direct.

Flex
07-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Man, shipping has got to be around $30 easily. Save yourself $65 or more and order them through Dave. On the last buy, he even took care of having mine coated at Swain prior to shipping them out.

scxr7
07-19-2009, 03:53 AM
edited....

scxr7
07-19-2009, 04:00 AM
edited....

XR7 Dave
07-19-2009, 08:16 AM
1) You won't find new std size pistons so forget about buying new pistons in that size.

2) You can't use SC rods and pistons on a 4.2L crank.

3) You can't use SC rods and pistons on a late model 3.8L crank either without rebalancing and adding heavy metal to the crank which is expensive.

4) These pistons are 8.5:1 compression.

Dirtyd0g
07-22-2009, 12:47 AM
You can't use SC rods and pistons on a late model 3.8L crank either without rebalancing and adding heavy metal to the crank which is expensive.



Tell me about it. I sent 2 rotating assemblies for balancing. One cost me about $300 and the second cost me about $500 for the heavy metal....
Ouch.
Alan

Flex
07-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Tell me about it. I sent 2 rotating assemblies for balancing. One cost me about $300 and the second cost me about $500 for the heavy metal....
Ouch.
Alan

$500??? What were you using for pistons Alan, small block chev's?

XR7 Dave
07-22-2009, 03:31 PM
You probably aren't aware of exactly what the issue is.

First, the late model 3.8 (and all 4.2L engines) use light weight, longer, powdered metal connecting rods. Because of the longer connecting rods the pistons are lighter, then also Ford used a lighter ring package and smaller pin size.

The result is that a piston/rod assembly from a late model 3.8L NA engine is a full 235g LESS than a Supercoupe rod/piston assembly. This amounts to a full 3.125 lb lighter rotating assembly. Since mallory metal is about $20/inch, and weighs 2x iron/steel (4.5oz/cu in), if you were simply adding metal to compensate for the difference you'd have to add about 4-5" of mallory metal to compensate. However, due to the fact that you'll most likely have to drill and remove steel to insert the mallory metal, you'll likely have to add more like a total 8-10" of mallory metal by the time you are done....

And that doesn't even take into account any additional labor for the milling and welding operations necessary to install the stuff so yes, it is going to be expensive to convert a late model NA motor to use SC stuff. $300 would be very cheap, and $400+ would be typical.

JT's03
12-25-2009, 12:51 AM
Dave, I am very interested in this piston/rod combo. I just want to clairify...I have a spare 01 block that I am planing on building but have also thrown around the idea of buying a sc motor to go into my 03 mustang to benefit from the forged crank, ibeams, and having my local engine builder providing custom forged je pistons.
Does this combo come with all the correct hardware for my machine shop to install this into the sc block?? If not what else would be needed/recomended?? Not sure if I read but is there a price??If not could I get a quote please??
Thanks
-Johnny

XR7 Dave
12-25-2009, 02:27 AM
The pistons with rings and pins are $475 shipped. The forged H-beam connecting rods are $325, so the total package is $800 for the rods and pistons shipped. These are direct replacements for the stock SC rotating assembly. No additional parts or hardware is needed. This is a rock solid package capable of handling any boost level you wish to toss at it.

I would not try to use the package on the 01 crankshaft. You can use the 01 block but you should use an SC crankshaft and bearings.

Dirtyd0g
12-25-2009, 12:19 PM
$500??? What were you using for pistons Alan, small block chev's?

Ford 4.6 using Eagle forged H beam rods and Probe pistons. I think he told me he added 150 grams of weight.
Alan

JT's03
12-25-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanks dave!!
Do you know where I could find a rebuild kit for the sc block?? I would want to replace the bearings,seals and possiblly upgrade the bolts.

Toms-SC
12-26-2009, 09:57 PM
so the total package is $800 for the rods and pistons shipped. These are direct replacements for the stock SC rotating assembly. No additional parts or hardware is needed.


That is a fantastic price. Do you offer balanced rotating assemblies? Or; do you find that is even completely necessary if you are not revving the car?

XR7 Dave
12-27-2009, 12:45 PM
I have all internal engine parts available. If you would like a complete kit, please email me for options and pricing.

Tom, the pistons are direct replacements with no balancing required. The rods are a little bit lighter than stock and should include a balance on the crankshaft. You could probably run them without balancing but I would not.

Tom, if you want a complete assembly, I have an assembled shortblock here that you could get John to bring back for you. Granted, it has custom pistons in it already which makes it a little more expensive, but it is ready to go.

Flex
12-27-2009, 05:13 PM
Dave,


When is John going to be at your place? Perhaps he can bring back my parts also.:)

Branko

XR7 Dave
12-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Dave,


When is John going to be at your place? Perhaps he can bring back my parts also.:)

Branko

Feel free to contact him to make arrangements.

And then lets try to keep this thread on topic, thanks. :)

rbrown
02-10-2010, 11:02 PM
This is looking like a pretty good deal the more I look.

I found KB/Silv-O-Lite pistons in both std and 020 for 35.00 each. Cast plus have to buy rings.

I wanted to do a simple refresher re-build but it looks like that is gonna be tough. Never in my dreams did I think getting pistons would be a challenge.

Raymondo
03-19-2010, 02:29 PM
deleted....dumb question :-/

steve.vreatt
11-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Are these pistons still for sale and how much for a set?

Mike8675309
11-29-2011, 07:55 AM
Are these pistons still for sale and how much for a set?


a new deal with Wiseco to where they have agreed to build an off-the-shelf forged piston for us! Yes, that will be a forged piston in their "Pro Tru" line that will be a direct replacement for the stock pistons which can also be fit to a CAT 5.915" H-beam rod.

thus the answer is yes as these are a shelf part for Wiseco. Pricing will have changed from the group purchase. send an e-mail to XR7 Dave (link in his post) for current pricing and to order.