replaced crank sensor, still no start with upshift light on

kwikcoupe

Registered User
what else could it be? i know Ive searched and it seems as though its been covered before but I just swapped out the crank sensor. It ran about 10 minutes and died again with the same symptoms. Im about to send it to the delearship to have it scoped or to check and see if I did something wrong? Are the sensors testy? Its a cardone napa type. Can i test it outside the car? Could the ecu or something else play a role in this.
Its a 90 sc 5 speed with 124k on it. 60k of which was put on it last year. I hated driving the car for work but had no other eeans of reliable transportation. Know ive got other cars and want this one to run but with theholidays obviously cant go throwing money at it.

Could the codes need to be cleared before trying to restart? Can I scan it with a standard obd1 schucks scanner and get the probelms? When i use the paperclip method I get nothing but the upshift light? no codes. no blinking?
 
Did you happen to check the crank pulley/balancer to see if it is loose/wobbling?

Was the old crankshaft sensor damaged at all?

Can you confirm the sensor wiring is intact...not grabbed by a belt, perhaps...

You shouldn't have to clear the codes just to get it to run.

Have you checked the ignition switch, down on the right side of the steering column...

>Can i test it outside the car? Could the ecu or something else play a role in this.

See this page for a 'no-start' troubleshooting process. You might want to skip ahead to N3.
 
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yes I checked the balancer and i tried hard to wobble it. it didnt give in the least.
I did check the wiring and it seems to beintact but otherwise unharmed. I noticed the ground plug had seperated from the wire so I just plugged it in without the plastic housing. I made sure it wasnt touching anything but this still yielded no change.
The old sensor had scuff marks on the inside of the vanes. Im guessing just dust or something biult up on it? There wasnt any damages like chips, cracks or otherwise it just looks a little dull from fine scartches. I think that makes sence. When I installed the new sensor I made sure it was clearanced by hand first as the how to post said.
I did replace my cam semsor about month prior due to typical failures. I re applied the thermal paste to the DIS using thermtake actic cool5 paste. Im running magnacore wores about 8 years old maybe 50k on them. Plugs were replaced last year with motorcraft dealership parts. the car has preety good maintainence but is starting to nickle and dime me to death.

I have a rule on all my cars. If I have to find a ride home 3 times, the 3rd time it goes to the junkyard. Ive done it to 2 cars already. I have a bit of a temper and rather than stair at it all pissy I just call the wreckers on them. Both were strong runnners in decent to good shape just had quirks I dont like to deal with.

My sc had a bad alertator at 90k. It was stock and I swapped it out with a shcucks special, 1k miles later Im swapping it out again. Ill only count that as 1 tow home as it was the schucks fault not the cars for having crappy rebiulds. This issue makes number 2 and I dont want to wreck this car. I love driving it but rules are rules!!!!

I hasd a bad oi pressure sending unit that got a pretty good coat of oil on the front of the engine. Ive got 85% of it off but still messing weith here and there as parts get replaced. These sensors arent cheap and most stores dont have a 90 day return policy on electrical parts.

Any clue on why I cant use the paperclip and check the KOEO codes? My dad in law is pointing to the eec for this?

I saw the trouble shooting page after I posted? Ill start that this weekend hopefully.
 
>Any clue on why I cant use the paperclip and check the KOEO codes?

If I didn't have a code reader, I'd at least use a voltmeter... I'd also be very careful about investing in any parts until I had something more to go on at this point. Make it easy on yourself & rent/buy a code reader if you have to. Be sure to reference SC specific code definitions.

With 124k miles, the engine grounds/ground paths are key suspects for a wide range of issues. Does the ground connection from the engine to the body look like the one in the photo? Replace it if it does...

How many volts at the battery?
 

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>Any clue on why I cant use the paperclip and check the KOEO codes?
If I didn't have a code reader, I'd at least use a voltmeter...
If you all will carefully examine your wiring diagrams, you will note that the CEL and the STO wires are connected at the EEC test harness. This means that the CEL and the output for the voltmeter are exactly the same circuit. If one or the other works, then there is a wiring issue somewhere. Blown bulb, loose/broken connection, etc.

The paper clip is the trigger to inform the EEC to run the KOE(OR) test. You can then count sweeps on a voltmeter or flashes of the CEL.
 
>...the CEL and the output for the voltmeter are exactly the same circuit. If one or the other works, then there is a wiring issue somewhere.

If you examine your wiring schematics more closely, you'll notice that a SC doesn't have a voltmeter. In any case, I figured getting the car to run was a bigger priority than opening the dash, seeing as it is staring down a loaded 3-strikes rule :)
 
If you examine your wiring schematics more closely, you'll notice that a SC doesn't have a voltmeter.
You're correct.. OK.. the lead, where one attaches a VOM to read sweeps, connects directly to the CEL bulb. :rolleyes:
 
>where one attaches a VOM to read sweeps

Ah, yes, of course.
 
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It ran about 10 minutes and died again with the same symptoms.

Is it a 89-92 with the "Vein" type sensor or 93 & later with the "Gear" ? My 92 had a bent vein that took out the sensor I would have missed it on install and trashed a second sensor except the ballancer happened to be in the right place to see it. If you have a 89-92 feel around the the back of the balancer make sure everything is straight with no sharp edges and double check your alingment.
 
>Any clue on why I cant use the paperclip and check the KOEO codes?

If I didn't have a code reader, I'd at least use a voltmeter... I'd also be very careful about investing in any parts until I had something more to go on at this point. Make it easy on yourself & rent/buy a code reader if you have to. Be sure to reference SC specific code definitions.

With 124k miles, the engine grounds/ground paths are key suspects for a wide range of issues. Does the ground connection from the engine to the body look like the one in the photo? Replace it if it does...

How many volts at the battery?
thats exactly what itlooks like but can one corroded connection of a grounded circiut really cause that many issues? The engine has to be grounded like 50 other places by metal to metal contact right? Ill pulll it off and clean it up real good just to be sure.

Im thinking Ill try a new sensor as it seems maybe installation was wrong. I did check the viens relly well when I was checking clearances. I didnt trust the cardboard trick for spacing so I just eyeballed it equal gap on both sides. I read it really doesnt matter as long as there isnt any contact issues.

If it wasnt for the 3rd strike rule I wouldnt really care but I really would like to keep the car another year or 2 at least. Its alot of fun to drive.
 
>thats exactly what itlooks like but can one corroded connection of a grounded circiut really cause that many issues?

Betcah-bottom-bottlecap :) If it doesn't cure your immediate issue, it will help tremendously all around.

If it's bad, replace the strap...cleaning the end might buy a spike in conductivity, but not in the long run since the entire strap is most likely just as bad...electricity doesn't flow on the 'inside' of the wire - surface corrosion is signal that a fresh path is due. Do yourself and the car both a favor and go for the gold.
 
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May want to check the HB while someone is turning the engine over. It can be solid when you grab it ,but, still be out of position enough to wobble when the engine turns over.These HB's are a POS and I've had 2 go at about the mileage you have on your car. Both times it ruined the sensor and once it broke right off and left part of the bolt in the crank. They can get out of alignment before they break, have someone turn it over while you watch.
 
I fanlly got around to cleaning that body-engine wire. It looked mint from the connector to the engine so i cleaned up the connector at the body with a steel brush and applied a good amount of de-ox conductoive grease. It appears as though the neg side of the battery wire also follows this path under the pass side of the engine? Anyone know if thats a likely culprit as well? I tried to start it and same result, cranks without start with the upshift light on. On the new sensor when I first reinstalled it I got it to run about 20 min until it started having issues again and its sat since. Would you think since it ran its ok or? also would it help any if i was to add another wire from the engine to the body in a different location and if so where

Also not sure if it helps or not. the fan turns on with the key on even though the engine is cold. i dont remember it doing that before. The check gauge light stays on all the tims same with the check engine light, no blinkls flashes or anything just solid. the upshift light gets dimmer when you crank as compared to key on so Im not sure if thats still that smae thing or not? Ill try to find a code reader locally or if anyone in washington feels like helpng out with this that would be grand

I went and got a schucks obd1 code reader and I cannot get it to perform the tests. When hooked up it displays the 000 or 00 and when you push the test button nothing it just stays as is. The manual says to run an alternat ground path from the battery to the single connector at the testing location and still no codes. I tried to do the manual paperclip method and got no reponce that way as well. is my computer toasted?
 
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On the new sensor when I first reinstalled it I got it to run about 20 min until it started having issues again and its sat since.


Sounds like you took out another crank sensor. Like the previous poast says check to make sure the ballancer isnt wobbiling. Did you allign the crank sensor to the fins on the back of the hub ? I had this happen and it was caused by the edge of one of the fins being bent. After the second crank sensor went out I started feeling around and found the bent fin. Fixed it with a pair of vice grips (and a 3rd sensor!!)
 
Sounds like you took out another crank sensor. Like the previous poast says check to make sure the ballancer isnt wobbiling. Did you allign the crank sensor to the fins on the back of the hub ? I had this happen and it was caused by the edge of one of the fins being bent. After the second crank sensor went out I started feeling around and found the bent fin. Fixed it with a pair of vice grips (and a 3rd sensor!!)

so without a good crank sensor nothing else on th car functions? it cranks, I have spark on all plugs although it could be off with bad sensor? Would a bad eec relay in the ircm box cause this or would it show up as a trouble code not a lack of codes?
 
so without a good crank sensor nothing else on th car functions? it cranks, I have spark on all plugs although it could be off with bad sensor? Would a bad eec relay in the ircm box cause this or would it show up as a trouble code not a lack of codes?


without a crank senser I Think you loose injector pulse someone else chime in please I was going on the theory that the car ran awile with a new one then quit again the only way to know for sure would be to test the resistance of a known good one with yours (or you could remove yours and inspect it for dammage)
 
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both units have no physical damaged, cracks, scuffs, breaks or otherwise. the old one looks dull on the inside of the sensor bar from rubbing but not damaged. Does anyone know what the resistance of a good one would be? Also in reading the ford wiring check, it stated to use a light to see if its power on the + pin at the harness. Are they reffering to unplugging the sensor and checking the engine harness with no sensor connected or using one of those sharp testers and piercing the wire to see if it lights when connected?
 
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