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aplvlydrtybird
12-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Just wanted to know if there would be people out there who would actually want a turbo kit.

I've been tossing around the idea of making a couple. I would need an untouched donor car, mine has been modified too far now. It all depends on what people would want to spend, and what they want out of it.

400+hp/tq would be easy to attain with the right turbo/fuel set-up.

So i guess if you have any thoughts whether it would be a great idea or a bad one let me know. And if you do want one, what would you want it to have/not have. Would you want to retain a/c, how big of intercooler, size of injectors, blow through maf/draw through maf, intake manifold selection(i.e. n/a 3.8 upper, tuning, etc...

This is just an idea, nothing more. just wondering if this would spark anyones interest.

Toms-SC
12-16-2008, 01:45 PM
I think the large majority of us are going to wait out and see what XR7 Dave cooks up in his SC kitchen. :)

aplvlydrtybird
12-16-2008, 01:58 PM
yea thats true!

Just know that there is some interest in turbos, so I figured I would see.

Good to know though I want all comments for either way. Thanks.

sinhumane
12-16-2008, 04:44 PM
kieth, i'd be more than interested in a hotside kit that retians stock o2 bungs, etc. and a downpipe that would bolt to a stock resonator.

put it in the same place yours is, or make it on the other side so that the radiator doesnt have to be moved over, and the turbo sits right at the stock IC location. a cold side with pipes/couplings from ebay would allow a certain level of customization... but i think a hotside kit is what could sell bigtime.

just my .02 lol... if i can find another wrx TD04l turbo.. lets just say i'll be one more on the list of turbo induction.

aplvlydrtybird
12-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Tyler,

Yea i never thought about where the existing stock ic is obviously because i have a different radiator in a different place.

That would be one idea i would have to see how the ic would be routed as well. placement for that is a huge factor as well, because i wouldnt recommend not intercooling it.

just a hotside is a pretty good idea, be a little bit easier, because there are alot of intercooler options and a couple different intakes that can be used as well.

Conan56
12-16-2008, 07:39 PM
I think a HOTSIDE kit would sell very well, this way turbo/ intake/ IC options are never ending

XxSlowpokexX
12-16-2008, 08:16 PM
Yes a hotside kit would be the way to go. Id be interested in that

sinhumane
12-16-2008, 08:57 PM
i think we're on to something, watson!!!!

*patiently awaits his welder for my xmas present* :)

aplvlydrtybird
12-16-2008, 09:35 PM
Cool, I like there are a few people interested.

Were you guys thinking of using a turbo i select or you want to leave that option open...

because then different turbo can make for different flanges and routing. mainly on the downpipe side, most turbos will take the t3/t4 flange, but there are alot of different options for the exit side.

sinhumane
12-16-2008, 11:16 PM
Maybe a v band? Would leave it open to a lot of great turbo selections, and if they wanted, they could just order a downpipe flange from eBay, and have their local shop weld it on for them. Would give more selectability. Personally, I think a set of your 'modified' headers would be excellent as a starting point.

aplvlydrtybird
12-16-2008, 11:58 PM
Maybe a v band? Would leave it open to a lot of great turbo selections, and if they wanted, they could just order a downpipe flange from eBay, and have their local shop weld it on for them. Would give more selectability. Personally, I think a set of your 'modified' headers would be excellent as a starting point.

Some exhaust housings carry a v-band some 5 bolt flange or a 4 bolt flange.
there are a few different styles you can get.

so i think a hot side minus a down pipe would be easier. i want to do some further testing with my next turbo which will most likely be a master power t70 and see what kind of power/spool time i can make with it. and ultimately make it a desired turbo for most everyone's needs which would make it a lot easier.

but i still understand people want options.

what i'd really like to do, but probably wont happen, is build each one for each car, then fitment issues would never be a problem and can make it custom to each person. :)

XxSlowpokexX
12-17-2008, 09:49 AM
Definitely a t4 flange

sinhumane
12-17-2008, 12:11 PM
I had no idea that there we're only a handful of different flanges for turbos. My td04 has the 5 bolt, just like every other mitsu turbo.

bigpoppa822
12-18-2008, 11:42 AM
Definitely a t4 flange

Damon, what does a T4 flange bolt up to? I imagine people would be wanting to run big turbos like a Garrett GT35, is that a T4 flange?

super red91
12-18-2008, 12:11 PM
T4 is a very common flange...the GT35 will bolt up to it. IMO if you are going to make a single turbo kit for an sc it should use a T4 flange.

super red91
12-18-2008, 12:12 PM
GT35 is not a big turbo by any means...it has a 60mm compressor wheel :)

David Neibert
12-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Agreed a t4 flange is the way to go. Problem will be making the downpipe, because it's specific to what turbo/exhaust housing is being used. If you are planning to plumb the wastegate exit back into the downpipe, it's even more important to select a specific turbo for the kit.

David

bigpoppa822
12-18-2008, 12:55 PM
GT35 is not a big turbo by any means...it has a 60mm compressor wheel :)

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT35/GT3582R_714568_1.htm


A GT35 has an 82mm wheel.

aplvlydrtybird
12-18-2008, 01:26 PM
gt35 is not a large frame turbo. The inducer wheel is 61.4mm exducr is 82mm

This would be a great turbo to do a kit, it can easily make 400hp to the wheels and it has been proven. I made just under 400 with a considerably smaller turbo.

I am planning on running a master power t-70 which is a little larger than the gt35. it has a 69.1mm inducer 91.0mm exducer. also comes with a t4 flange.

it is part number 950022-1137 here (http://www.masterpowerusa.com/MPTurbo2008.pdf)

there isnt much need for a large frame turbo on these engines...or at least for a kit if it were to be built. I dont see anyone needing one.

I could certainly put a wastegate set-up on there right before the flange to place it in a certain area and then let the user finish it post wastegate. probably would use a tial wastegate...i dont think anyone would disagree, its a great wastegate.

sinhumane
12-18-2008, 01:57 PM
i think going with a specific turbo might make it easier to build multiple kits... then if they wanted, they'd be able to upgrade to a different turbo by welding on the flanges.

i think you could have something here, bro. so long as you can get a donor car, get a proto, and reproduce it, set a fair price, and have some buyers, you could make some bux. and since you ARE a long time member, you have a certain amt of trust from us. :)

aplvlydrtybird
12-18-2008, 02:18 PM
with the t4 flange, you can still have a variety of turbos to choose from.

With everything I ahve bought/sold on these boards I have never had an issue, and im not looking to create a faulty product, or make anyone mad

The hotside would be the way to go just to make the headers and pipes leading to the turbo would be a great place to start. It would lead alot of people in the right direction, and leave alot of options open. I'd prefer to use v-band flanges, but if people opt otherwise i could work with that as well.

sinhumane
12-18-2008, 03:52 PM
awesome! i hope to hear some progress... wish i were closer, my 95 could be a great guinea pig...

now... as for intakes... you think you could duplicate the plenum you had previously? i'm sure an NA upper would suffice... but who wants to go through all that extra plumbing, and worry about more heatsoak? :D

super red91
12-18-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm not so sure a turbo kit is able to be reproduced so easily because of many different variables. You have to consider internal/external wastegate, downpipe routing, turbo size and location, a/c or no a/c, etc...

A hotside would be more reasonable, but as stated before would require a donor car. I know the amount of work that was involved with building my hotside, if I were to make another it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $800. Lots of fab time getting things to line up correctly, materials, welding, etc...

Then once you have a hotside, there is still lots of fab work required in the exhaust, intercooler pipes, oil lines, and so on.

I am not saying this to discourage anyone from doing so, just stating that it becomes quite involved and is not so much a bolt on thing. If you have the skills to do alot of this work its actually not that bad.

bigpoppa822
12-18-2008, 04:46 PM
If I could scrape money together and knew you were going to do this, I'd be down for buying a hot side setup in a heartbeat.

sinhumane
12-18-2008, 05:25 PM
i have no doubts that it would require quite a bit more fabrication, but with the hotside as a basis, with a set of ebay IC tubes and IC, it would be a lot simpler... i mean, even honda drivers can do it ;)

aplvlydrtybird
12-18-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm not so sure a turbo kit is able to be reproduced so easily because of many different variables. You have to consider internal/external wastegate, downpipe routing, turbo size and location, a/c or no a/c, etc...

A hotside would be more reasonable, but as stated before would require a donor car. I know the amount of work that was involved with building my hotside, if I were to make another it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $800. Lots of fab time getting things to line up correctly, materials, welding, etc...

Then once you have a hotside, there is still lots of fab work required in the exhaust, intercooler pipes, oil lines, and so on.

I am not saying this to discourage anyone from doing so, just stating that it becomes quite involved and is not so much a bolt on thing. If you have the skills to do alot of this work its actually not that bad.


This is true there are alot of variable involved when doing a kit.

preturbo headers and pipe would be a great start, if that is what people would be interested in.


it would be possible to make another intake like the previous one i had. My friend has a tig welder and Im sure we could fab up another one or two.

XxSlowpokexX
12-20-2008, 02:58 AM
Heck it would even be cool to have a 17- 20 psi complete kit using factory ic location and all. Perhaps for use with a single port tbird or stang upper intake

sinhumane
12-20-2008, 11:45 AM
you CAN have that!!!





















(provided you buy kieths hotside kit, get your upper intake and have at it ;))



in all seriousness, nto to say this is any simple task, but for the sake of soemthing actually HAPPENING with this.. lets keep it as simple and straightforward as possible. mmk?

hell, i might get randy and try some plumbing myself, kieth, i'll let you know what i come up with.. i think a TT setup on an sc would be interesting, no? :D

aplvlydrtybird
12-20-2008, 11:52 AM
that would be cool, more expensive too:)

sinhumane
12-20-2008, 11:56 AM
eh, wont be too difficult. my 95 is already gonna be the guinea pig. i just need to get a tuning solution... :( havent decided, but i think i'm gonna megasquirt it.

nwnsc
12-20-2008, 12:42 PM
eh, wont be too difficult. my 95 is already gonna be the guinea pig. i just need to get a tuning solution... :( havent decided, but i think i'm gonna megasquirt it.

why megasquart? when the factory eec and a tuner is all that is realy needed. when i started plaining for what im doing,i thought i would need to go standalone. but after i did the research a tuner will do every thing needed. on the hot side kit what kind of headers will be used? a set of fliped headers or the GN style like super red's? i have thought about making a kit too, but there are so many varbles. i like the ease of the GN style pluming. because how do you get the fliped header to clear the power stering pump?

aplvlydrtybird
12-20-2008, 04:45 PM
mine were mac shorties that i flipped around, involved some cutting but it clears the pump with plenty of room.

Just got to watch out for the pressure line. I had to wrap mine because it is so close to the header, ideally i'd like to get a hard line routed in there if i keep the power steering but i might just go with a manual rack someday.

No need to change computers, just need an sct chip to plug into the computer. Most people who are familiar with the fox mustangs can tune for a turbo. It's a similar computer and tuning is tuning for any car.

Dave d. can also tune your car too, just gotta fly him out or go to him.:)

boooster
12-22-2008, 04:07 AM
The hotside idea is great. Why not build a simple hotside that uses the oem headers/manifolds in place them into Y pipe and then U turns backl towards the front to a single and squeeze a dp out the back? Just a thought thats what I would do if i was turbocharging a 3.8. makes it easier ...no header fabrication needed. More cost effecient and easier to duplicate the hotside. After looking at alot of your guys 3.8 engine bay shots theres plenty of room to do this. Ive seen it done on a few cars. A guy at theturboforums did this on a 4.0 06 mustang and it was well done and worked great. The U turn was under the tail shaft of the trany

aplvlydrtybird
12-22-2008, 06:36 PM
I prefer mine in the engine bay. That way its closer to the oil pump so i can just feed it off of the block instead of using an external pump to feed the turbo(s). Also dont have to worry about hitting something and losing out on a $500+ turbo. Alot of guys have lowered cars, and im sure would cause a few issues.

Also, there would be less intercooler piping. The reverse mac shorties are not too complicated to replicate.

Most of the cutting has to be done on the header that goes to the passenger side facing forwards. Then cut off the ball and socket flange and get a v-band in there.

boooster
12-23-2008, 05:45 AM
It would be under the hood. I meant having the exhaust dumping off the oem manifolds then Y'd together into a U turn pipe that would route the exhaust back towards the front of the car. Then snake past the motor on either side to wherever the location will be then the DP squeezing back by the motor out the back. This is how helion and BG turbo kits route the hotside for the 4.6L stangs. It also makes the install a breeze because you never even have to turn a manifold bolt. Many other guys have ran the hotside like this with great sucess.
Heres BGs kit
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99520.0

aplvlydrtybird
12-23-2008, 11:58 AM
i see what you mean. nice design but its look to be centered around a tubular k-member...which the 3.8 sc has yet to find a direct bolt in...

I dont think there would be enough room for that set-up

boooster
12-24-2008, 10:29 AM
i dont see how there wouldnt be enough room. Theres plenty of room under the car to U turn the exhaust. All would be needed is one 2.5" pipe wiggled past the motor to the turbo and then one 3" DP wiggled back by the motor. It might get chellenging with the ac equipt but its going to be challenging anyways.

XxSlowpokexX
12-27-2008, 11:47 PM
Are single port and split port the same exhaust wise?

aplvlydrtybird
12-28-2008, 01:24 PM
yes they are in the same location and have the same bolt hole location, so stock manifolds will work just slightly a different shape. and aftermarket ones will work too.