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RoccoRock05
01-19-2009, 06:53 PM
I was thinking way down the line, when ive actually got the kind of money needed for this, that i would do an engine swap to my 94 SC if i still have it. The V6 SC isnt exactly the most reliable engine, or the most powerful. (Arguing this is for another day :D ) So i figured that a 5.0 would be the most reliable, easily modified engine to install. The aftermarket is bigger with the 5.0 than with the 4.6 SOHC, and the 4.6 DOHC from a mark or cobra or 5.4 SOHC lightning would not really be cost effective. I also am not a huge fan of overhead cam engines unless they are from a 4 banger....But i still like them. So i was curious as to what would be the easiest way to go about a 5.0 swap into a 94 t-bird SC. Would a 5.0 from an earlier bird be better than a 5.0 from a 94-95 mustang? would the M5R2 mate to a 5.0? what would be needed as far as electrical (harness, computer, sensors, etc), what kind or engine mounts would be needed? now keep in mind that i would eventually upgrade the 5.0 much later on, im just really concerned about the fit and functionality of the swap. I like things to be powerful, and as close to stock as possible. When all is said and done, id like it to look as if a 94 thunderbird came from the factory with a 5.0. I know you all will have your opinions about this, and i ask that you keep in mind that it will be months maybe a year or two down the road before this happens. But i would rather be as educated as possible about doing this before i go and start buying things.

RoccoRock05
01-21-2009, 04:19 PM
guess thats a sign i shouldnt do it lol........

kenewagner
01-21-2009, 04:24 PM
I think if I was going to give up on my V6 I would drop a 460cu in into the engine bay. There are enough people here that can give you everything you need to know to install one and it wouldnt take much to make big power with little effort on a big block.

Ken

RoccoRock05
01-21-2009, 04:35 PM
wouldnt a 302 be easier and cheaper to come by if it were from say a mustang or older bird? also, wouldnt it be easier to change everything over with the electrical side of things? that is my real concern with doing this; is making everything work reliably and properly.

MadMikeyL
01-21-2009, 04:46 PM
The easiest way would be to get a 91-93 5.0 bird or cougar so you can grab all the wiring, computer, and mounts and everything from it. Also, the motor mount style changed in 93, so you would have to either get mounts from a 93 5.0, or swap in an engine cradle from an 89-92 car.

kenewagner
01-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Send a PM to Pro Street Rich. According to him the big block swap is a piece of cake. There a lot of bragging rights when you have a big block Thunderbird. Just another path to look at

Ken

RoccoRock05
01-21-2009, 04:54 PM
ill have to do that, thanks. as for the t-bird 5.0, what about 94-95 mustangs 5.0? i want to put it into a 94 t-bird, wouldnt that make more sense engine wise? im not too familiar with all the sensors and wiring from the mustangs, but didnt everything change with the t-birds from 93 to 94? Different EEC's, different engines, etc......

David Neibert
01-21-2009, 05:41 PM
ill have to do that, thanks. as for the t-bird 5.0, what about 94-95 mustangs 5.0? i want to put it into a 94 t-bird, wouldnt that make more sense engine wise? im not too familiar with all the sensors and wiring from the mustangs, but didnt everything change with the t-birds from 93 to 94? Different EEC's, different engines, etc......

Most of the stuff on the 94/95 mustang is the same as 91-93 T-bird with 5.0. Biggest differince is that the mustang used an electric cooling fan and the t-bird had a belt driven fan. Since the mustang used an electric fan it also had a bigger alternator (3G) and the water pump is differint because a fan doesn't bolt onto it. The 91-93 t-bird had an AOD the 94-95 mustang had the 4RW70 or whatever electronic transmission.

I had the 5.0 motor conversion done on my 93 SC using the motor, radiator, ignition system, wiring, EEC and a bunch of other stuff from a 91 T-bird 5.0 by Dave Dalke. Other than having to rework the 91 5.0 motor mounts to work with a 93 SC Kmember, it was pretty much a plug and play deal.

Stock for stock the 5.0 will be a much slower car and it won't be any more reliable than the 3.8 SC motor you already have. If you are going to put a power adder on the 5.0 with the expectation of making more than 450 rwhp, you will also need to upgrade to an aftermarket block. The stock 351 block will handle more power, but the 302 won't. The 351 is a little taller but will still fit under the hood.

Only reason I did it was to get all the accesories and wiring in place for the 5.0 based race motor I was having built and installing later. As it turned out, I didn't end up using any of the stock 5.0 t-bird stuff except for a couple accesory brackets.

If doing over, I'd just go straight to installing the race motor.

David

RoccoRock05
01-21-2009, 06:04 PM
Is the 93 kmember different than that on a 94 sc? i plan to keep the M5R2, but will it mate to a 351 or 5.0 properly? I dont intend on keeping it a stock 5.0, but i dont think i would be able to afford a race crate motor. Why do you say that it wouldnt be more reliable? Ive read time and again how SC's are always blowing head gaskets, not to mention the 2 times ive personally experienced this. I havent really heard too many bad things about the 302. That, with the cheap aftermarket, i would imagine that it would be so much easier to get a 302 to 350+rwhp on motor alone, and still be streetable. If i do go through with it and settle on a 302, there are top end kits that make pretty good power. I dont know, its just my opinion, but i think a 302 is absolutely more solid than the 3.8 SC engine

pearl95sc
01-22-2009, 12:00 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the electrical side. If you can swap to the early style 90-93 eec and harness, you'll be ok. The only thing on the cluster that would need attention would be the oil and temp gauges, both which use a 1 wire hook up, and go directly to the cluster. So its a breeze to make the gauges work. The clusters themselves are interchangeable throughout the years, so if you swap the harness's correctly, you'll be ok.

From the eec itself, the harness goes directly up and out, less 1 ground wire, and meets up to the 2 connectors. The other wiring in the engine bay comes through on the drivers side for the fuse panel, lighting, all the other major stuff. To me, the wiring is a breeze to understand, and if you have a donor car, life just got much easier.

XxSlowpokexX
01-22-2009, 12:22 AM
If you are going to do a factory 5.0 swap you wont be happy.

Before doing the swap though think about what you really want to accomplish. For the 300rwhp range I think its silly to swap to a 5.0. 400rwhp plus it makes more sence...But 400rwhp isnt going to come cheap.

If your hellbent on a 5.0. Using a basically stock tbird or stang motor is a good starting point. WIth a stock shortblock an emmisions legal cam, mild heads/intake and associated garbage you can reach 300rwhp relatively easy.

BTW a DOHC swap (cant use your tranny though) with mild bolt ons will also net you 300 or so rwhp give or take.

David Neibert
01-22-2009, 01:18 AM
I was out in the garage this evening replacing the oil supply line for the turbo and rewiring for a differnt style mrk8 cooling fan. As you can see there's not much left over from the original 5.0 swap.

David

RoccoRock05
01-22-2009, 01:20 AM
i know a dohc swap would give me good hp right off the bat. but i dont think id be up to that. plus, if i were going to put that kind of engine into my bird, id like to go 03-04 cobra route.......but thats way beyond any budget or skill of mine. top end kits for the 5.0 are somewhat on the cheap side. plus im really thinking longevity here. 5.0's can make really good power reliably and it would be a sturdy base for me in the long run. i can always add to it over time and not really ever break the bank doing it. so id really prefer a 302 and eventually (over a few years) modify it to get the power goals id want out of it.

David Neibert
01-22-2009, 01:27 AM
i know a dohc swap would give me good hp right off the bat. but i dont think id be up to that. plus, if i were going to put that kind of engine into my bird, id like to go 03-04 cobra route.......but thats way beyond any budget or skill of mine. top end kits for the 5.0 are somewhat on the cheap side. plus im really thinking longevity here. 5.0's can make really good power reliably and it would be a sturdy base for me in the long run. i can always add to it over time and not really ever break the bank doing it. so id really prefer a 302 and eventually (over a few years) modify it to get the power goals id want out of it.

Go for it...even if it's not as fast, the exhaust will sound a lot better.

David

XR7 Dave
01-22-2009, 09:40 AM
I did a 5.0 swap on a 5spd SC and it was fine. I did also add an aluminum flywheel, dual exhaust, and electric fan while I was doing it so it had a few advantages but in that form it ran about as well as a stock SC. I think if you did that and added a KB blower kit the car would be a lot of fun without being overly complicated and would be dead nuts reliable.

As for the swap itself, there are a few things to keep in mind. First off I'd definitely start with a 93 5.0LX. You can buy a complete car for not much more than the cost of a 5.0 out of a GT and, contrary to popular belief, the motors are identical internally.

If you are confident splicing wiring and hooking stuff up, then you can do anything from making your own wiring harness to using a Mustang EEC, but to make the wiring install as simple as possible and as factory as possible in both appearance and function, you will definitely want to use the Tbird EEC and wiring.

There are some other seemingly minor issues that are actually very important. You will need T-bird motor mount brackets. You can buy motor mounts new, but you can NOT buy the motor mount brackets anymore so if you want the motor to "drop in" and sit correctly without making your own solid motor mounts, you need the T-bird donor car. Same goes for the AC. If you want AC you NEED the lines from the T-bird. Mustang stuff is different.

Basically, if you have to ask, then probably a 351W or 460BB engine swap is not for you. If you want a car that look, runs, and drives like a real SC and not like some hotrod that you put together in your garage, then you need to go with a Tbird 5.0 swap and build from there. In David's case his end product is so different from just an SC that nothing from the Tbird swap benefited him. He has a totally different exhaust, no AC, a totally different computer and wiring system, different fuel system, different cooling system, different engine block, etc. Not even the motor mounts would fit on his engine block (Dart block).

You can do anything you want, but the 5.0 swap is going to be by far the easiest and give you the most room to work under the hood. If you are doing it to save money though, forget that. If you are doing it to have more potential power, then yes, it will get you there. I've seen plenty of 5.0 based motors make 450rwhp reliably on the stock block which is enough power to run 11's all day long so unless your goals exceed that, a production 5.0 will do just fine.

NEEDaSCbad
01-22-2009, 09:49 AM
Basically, if you have to ask, then probably a 351W or 460BB engine swap is not for you.....

Can you even fit a 460 in these cars? :confused::eek:

kenewagner
01-22-2009, 10:10 AM
Can you even fit a 460 in these cars? :confused::eek:

Been done many times


Ken

XR7 Dave
01-22-2009, 10:55 AM
Been done many times
Ken

Just remember, you are going to give up fuel injection, emissions compliance, and fuel economy and you are going to gain a couple hundred pounds on the front end (unless you compensate by taking other weight off).

There are actually very few running around on the street that I'm aware of, and most of those are Saturday nite specials and not daily drivers. The SC has a pretty big engine bay actually. A 4.6L is almost a tighter fit than the 460 is.

David Neibert
01-22-2009, 01:06 PM
In David's case his end product is so different from just an SC that nothing from the Tbird swap benefited him. He has a totally different exhaust, no AC, a totally different computer and wiring system, different fuel system, different cooling system, different engine block, etc. Not even the motor mounts would fit on his engine block (Dart block).


Not entirely true...I'm still using the coil mounting bracket :D

David

MadMikeyL
01-22-2009, 01:39 PM
I just noticed you are in NJ. If you want help with the swap, I'll help you out. You definitely want a 5.0 tbird as a parts car. The M5R2 will bolt up to the 5.0, but you will have to either get a starter and flywheel out of a 5.0/5-speed F150, or you will have to have your SC flywheel reblanced. For wiring, the 91-93 5.0 wiring would be the way to go, since then everything would be basically plug-and-play.

As far as power goes, don't expect the 5.0 to blow the SC away. Unless you change out the top end, your car will likely be slower with the 5.0 than it is with the 3.8SC. If you are going to go all out with heads, cam, intake, exhaust, etc, then the 5.0 will start to pull ahead of the 3.8SC, but for stock and minor bolt-ons, the SC would probably be cheaper to get the same power.

Also, as far as reliability goes, the only really common failure of the SC is the head gaskets. Replace them once and do it right, using head studs and resurfacing the heads, and you have just cured the reliability issue. I know the 5.0 is known for being completely reliable and indestructible, but the SC gets a bad rap just because of one problem that is fairly easily fixed.

KMT
01-22-2009, 02:37 PM
MadMikeyL> "Also, as far as reliability goes, the only really common failure of the SC is the head gaskets"

This is strictly an anecdotal claim/opinion. Please don't foster yet another myth about this car.

Head gaskets can be a common source of issues on SCs that are abused and/or not properly maintained, however.

txsc
01-22-2009, 03:00 PM
Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just buy a nice 5.0 LX 'Bird, and add the SC cosmetics? I'd rather mess around with screwing on body trim and changing emblems, etc. than wading into mechanical and electrical conversions. Just a thought...

JD

MadMikeyL
01-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just buy a nice 5.0 LX 'Bird, and add the SC cosmetics? I'd rather mess around with screwing on body trim and changing emblems, etc. than wading into mechanical and electrical conversions. Just a thought...

JD

Not if he wants the 5-speed and the ride control. Also he has a 94, so he might like the newer style interior better. So basically to avoid doing the wiring (which really isn't that bad) he would have to buy a 5.0 bird, swap over the automatic ride control computer and wiring, the shocks, springs, sway bars, convert to a 5-speed, change out the dash for the newer style, get SC seats, bumpers and skirts, etc. An engine swap would be much easier than all that, even with swapping over the wiring.

MadMikeyL
01-22-2009, 03:47 PM
MadMikeyL> "Also, as far as reliability goes, the only really common failure of the SC is the head gaskets"

This is strictly an anecdotal claim/opinion. Please don't foster yet another myth about this car.

Head gaskets can be a common source of issues on SCs that are abused and/or not properly maintained, however.

Are you trying to say that blown head gaskets are not a common problem on SCs? There's really no way around the fact that these cars like to eat head gaskets somewhere between 100-150K miles. It's an easy enough fix though, so I really don't consider it to be a reliability problem, unless we are talking about going on a road trip with a 140K mile SC that has never had the head gaskets redone.

David Neibert
01-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Are you trying to say that blown head gaskets are not a common problem on SCs? There's really no way around the fact that these cars like to eat head gaskets somewhere between 100-150K miles. It's an easy enough fix though, so I really don't consider it to be a reliability problem, unless we are talking about going on a road trip with a 140K mile SC that has never had the head gaskets redone.

Agreed...the only other common prioblem is with harmonic balancer failure at about the same mileage. Since Ford started using the MLS head gaskets it's no longer an issue. And now that we can get an aftermarket balancer, that's not an issue either.

David

David Neibert
01-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Not if he wants the 5-speed and the ride control. Also he has a 94, so he might like the newer style interior better. So basically to avoid doing the wiring (which really isn't that bad) he would have to buy a 5.0 bird, swap over the automatic ride control computer and wiring, the shocks, springs, sway bars, convert to a 5-speed, change out the dash for the newer style, get SC seats, bumpers and skirts, etc. An engine swap would be much easier than all that, even with swapping over the wiring.

Instrument cluster, hand operated parking brake and steering wheel are also SC specific. When doing my 93 I thought about starting with a 5.0 LX bird and doing an SC clone, but I thought that was going to be more difficult than the motor swap.

David

RoccoRock05
01-22-2009, 07:59 PM
thanks for all the input guys, i really appreciate it. i do like the 94 interior better than the older style...i had a 93 SC as my first car and it was cool...until i saw the 94 lol. XR7Dave, everything you said is right on. i want this car to be like it was from the factory with a 5.0. like i said before, down the road ill want to put more power into it, but my goals dont really exceed 450hp. i want AC and all the creature comforts the thunderbird already has, and still be able to put a beat down on a lot of other cars. im not going to be doing this to save money by any means, i just love the look and potential of the 5.0; and the fact that it can make decent power for not a lot of money, its pretty appealing to me. The SC engine not being as reliable as a 5.0 is absolutely and opinion......but, as it was said before, these cars are prone to HG failures which can seriously screw the internals of these engines up (personal experience) and doesnt seem to be AS COMMON an issue for the 5.0......It takes a lot more to make these cars run quick with the 3.8 than it would if it had a 5.0 as a starting point (my opinion) ive put around 6000 into the SC and yeah, it was fast.....but not as fast as i wouldve liked it to be (im sure i couldve put the money into different things for the car to make it faster, but i had reliablity in mind). I want to start fresh with a stout platform with much more potential than the 3.8. Again, these are just my opinions.

txsc
01-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Not if he wants the 5-speed and the ride control. Also he has a 94, so he might like the newer style interior better. So basically to avoid doing the wiring (which really isn't that bad) he would have to buy a 5.0 bird, swap over the automatic ride control computer and wiring, the shocks, springs, sway bars, convert to a 5-speed, change out the dash for the newer style, get SC seats, bumpers and skirts, etc. An engine swap would be much easier than all that, even with swapping over the wiring.

Okay, so use an 94-97 LX with the 4.6 (isn't it supposed to be a better engine?). There's probably lots of Mustang hop-up parts available for that engine, too. As far as the transmission, an auto is probably going to be faster, considering how the M5R2 is a truck transmission, and they have their own share of problems. And, I thought everyone hated the ARC system anyway. SC donor cars seem to be dime-a-dozen for the other needed bits and pieces. Oh well, that's why I'm into restoring these things instead of hot-rodding them. That's what's great about the 'Birds; they can be anything you want them to be. Personally, I like the 460 idea, if you're going to the trouble of an engine swap!

Cheers,

JD

fturner
01-22-2009, 09:51 PM
Me personally, I like the idea of being unique and running a V6 that is reliable in my mind. Sure the hg's went a awhile ago, and I've replaced them. I like the idea of driving down the highway getting 30+mpg (and yes my car DOES get that, and I've got all the datalogs to prove it).. lets see a 5.0 get that. I also like the idea of surprising the crap outta v8 owners and handing them their butts.. and know what, it didn't cost me a whole lot to get their either :).

I would not hesitate one second about driving my tbird all the way across north america running the SC'd 3.8L that it has in it.

And finally, in my own opinion, if it don't have an SC'd 3.8L, it ain't an SC anymore :D.

Fraser

neverfastenough
01-22-2009, 10:43 PM
I get more around 17-18ish on the highway, before the non locking converter:rolleyes:

Corey

XxSlowpokexX
01-23-2009, 12:31 AM
Rocco it all depends what your HP goals are. Up to 350rwhp Id have to say the v6 thats in thier is by far the easiest and cheapest to that point.

And I cant imagine even a 460 being a tighter fit width wise when compared to a 4.6. That engine barely fits

superdadsc
01-23-2009, 12:58 AM
If I was going to do a 5.0 swap, I would start with a forged bottom end and make it a stroker, 331! Then you would have a little extra TQ to start with and it would handle any power levels you would want to throw at it. Very reliable!:D:D

Stephen

RoccoRock05
01-23-2009, 01:16 AM
i agree with that, but the main thing to start off with is to make sure everything will work right the first time. I do understand that the 302 compared to the 3.8 SC isnt going to be faster by any means....i actually expect it to be slower........but thats stock. The 5.0 wont be stock for very long. I do intend on beefing up the bottom end, putting lots of go fast stuff on the top end.......but just to start out, id like to make sure everything works properly with a base swap. I dont want to buy a crate 5.0, or start modifying a stock one right away.....the money needs to go into making it work right first! Once thats out of the way....THEN i can go ahead and take it out, and beef it up a bit....at least that way, ill know it fit and worked right etc etc. Gotta take the baby steps here lol.

S_Mazza
01-23-2009, 10:49 AM
Rocco,

The 5.0 swap WILL work. It's been done, and I think there are plenty of people with enough knowledge to answer the problems you have run into. So don't worry about that.

I don't know your situation too well, but if you are going to do it, I would do it one time and be done. It's going to take you a little while to accumulate all the needed mounts, wiring and odds and ends, so why not wait a while longer and get the 5.0 built like you want before you put it in?

XR7 Dave
01-23-2009, 05:49 PM
Well step one is to get a 5.0 tbird or cougar as a donor car. From there it would be easy enough to swap everything over.


Make sure you get a 93. Motor mounts/K-member are different on the earlier years.

RoccoRock05
01-24-2009, 05:07 AM
Thanks Dave. Its the things like that that would be a REAL headache if i had gotten a 91 or 92

Nate_V6
01-24-2009, 06:13 AM
if you swap a 351w in, your already ahead by 51cc from a 5.0 and displacement mean more power, a stock 351 windsor can take 650-700 all day long, keeping the rpms under 6800. and the nice the thing about a 351 also is you can swap 5.0 parts on it.

MadMikeyL
01-24-2009, 09:23 AM
Make sure you get a 93. Motor mounts/K-member are different on the earlier years.

If you can't find a 93 though, it would be easy enough to just swap out K-members as well.

XR7 Dave
01-24-2009, 10:20 AM
If you can't find a 93 though, it would be easy enough to just swap out K-members as well.
That is true. I modified the motor mounts to fit when I did it which I think might have been easier than changing the K-member but either way. The difference is that they widened the mounting pads in anticipation of the 4.6L motor. It will look like everything is fine except that you won't be able to get both mounts bolted up. I cussed at it for quite a while before I figured out what the problem was. They look exactly the same but all the dimensions are slightly different.

RoccoRock05
01-25-2009, 12:03 AM
so, bottom line to get this thing moving is to source a 1993 thunderbird with the 5.0 first. ive got a few other concerns as well. since i want to keep all my accessories, such as A/C, what am i going to need to do that? more specifically, am i going to run into any problems with the electronic climate control that i have in my 94? overall, what are the main compatibility issues i am going to run into?? ive currently got a spec stage 2 clutch with their billet steel flywheel installed on the SC. its barely used, but is that going to work right off the bat, or do i need to get that rebalanced or something along those lines? i am going to want to install headers right away; so am i going to have to modify anything for them to fit? i really want to make sure that all aspects are covered here. i want have this as well thought out as possible.

Nate_V6
01-25-2009, 01:24 AM
you should seriously consider a 351windsor. then y can save money by NOT having to beef up the bottom end, and just spend money in the top. and if you wanted you can get 408 stroking kits for 1500 or less. and all the assessories on the 302 can be swapped onto the 351! and to begin with like a I said a stock 351w will take 650-700hp without fail.

remember theres never enough money to do it right the first time, but theres always enough to do it over ;)

and I agree about being unique. I could have just bought my cobra 1st and just worked on that, but I think the SC v6 in my mustang is different and when its done Ill have a car thats hopefully going to break 11s for 7 grand or less including buying the car (and 30mpg) including the 18" chromes and saleen bodykit with a 96 cobra hood. also around here its dodge country and everyone is hemi this and hemi that(dont tell them the hemi name is fake!)...bunch of ricers! I can't wait to see the look on their faces when their 6.1 gets there ~~~ handed to them by a car thast not even worth their engine lol

pro street rich
01-25-2009, 01:36 AM
First off, I have done or been involved with at least a half dozen big block change overs. I have also given help over the phone to another ten or so mn12 owners since I did the first swap many years ago... They do work fine on the street and I drove one all summer as my daily driver a few years ago. Heck I even took a few trips with one.. So they can be done and made to run just like any other engine.. Now as for fuel milage, you will be down to the 10 to 15 range depending on how hard you drive and how crazy you build the engine.
Now lets look at that weight issue.... I beleive it was the second car I built that I put everything on the scale as it came out of the car and as it was added.... GUESS WHAT.... The big block with alumium heads and intake was LIGHTER by 60 lbs when all was said and done...
Here is how it went... The "K" member was changed, headers were added, with the alumium engine parts and it got a power glide transmission...
People have to remember that you are getting rid of all the inner cooler & pipes, blower, 30 lbs of wire and misc junk, and a few other parts that all add weight. If you get really crazy you can even go with an alumium block and really save some weight up front. There have been a few blocks made and if you look you can still find one, but expect to spend a few $$$$$ to get it home.
So it is all up to what makes you happy. If you build or buy a "Ford " built 514 you can be looking at something that is streetable and still gives you 500 hp or more, and it comes with a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty.
Now how hard is it to put in, well that is the best part. Most of it is bolt in, with a bit of welding on the frame adaptors for the engine mounts. The trans mount is simple and even uses the stock cross member. The drive shaft must be made but ANYONE who is using a stock driveshaft and making over 300 hp is asking for a huge mess to come his way. The engine gets a carb and point dist. so that means that all the oem engine system can go on the - side of the scale.
This is just a short look at this swap, but everyone that has done it loves the end product.......Rich

RoccoRock05
01-25-2009, 07:07 PM
have you done this particular swap with a 91-93 5.0 into a 94 SC? im not really looking to go with a big block......i know that would give me very good hp numbers just on motor with little aftermarket, but i am still more geared towards the 302. hopefully with time and money, after the swap is completed (if i can afford to in the near future) ill work the 302 into a real beast.

Nate_V6
01-25-2009, 07:57 PM
well with the big block swap, I would have said go with that first lol, but since your not going with the big block and deciding the 302. what is the reason your not considering the 351w?

RoccoRock05
01-25-2009, 11:40 PM
its going to be cheaper to get a complete 93 5.0 t-bird, instead of getting that PLUS a 351w. im not made of money you know lol :D

Nate_V6
01-25-2009, 11:58 PM
351w can be had for under 500 and you save money by not having to build the bottom, but its ok, you can still build a killer 363.

David Neibert
01-26-2009, 05:28 PM
so, bottom line to get this thing moving is to source a 1993 thunderbird with the 5.0 first. ive got a few other concerns as well. since i want to keep all my accessories, such as A/C, what am i going to need to do that? more specifically, am i going to run into any problems with the electronic climate control that i have in my 94? overall, what are the main compatibility issues i am going to run into?? ive currently got a spec stage 2 clutch with their billet steel flywheel installed on the SC. its barely used, but is that going to work right off the bat, or do i need to get that rebalanced or something along those lines? i am going to want to install headers right away; so am i going to have to modify anything for them to fit? i really want to make sure that all aspects are covered here. i want have this as well thought out as possible.

Here you go Rocco...1993 LX w/5.0 for $500

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=118810

David

sd_iconoclast
01-29-2009, 07:53 AM
I did a 5.0 swap on a 5spd SC and it was fine. I did also add an aluminum flywheel, dual exhaust, and electric fan while I was doing it so it had a few advantages but in that form it ran about as well as a stock SC. I think if you did that and added a KB blower kit the car would be a lot of fun without being overly complicated and would be dead nuts reliable.


Perfect timing for this thread! I just bought a '90 SC with the idea of doing the 5.0 with KB Supercharger swap. But, I just talked to Kenne-Bell and they say that they do not sell the supercharger kit for T-Birds anymore. So I asked if I could use the 5.0 Mustang kit. The tech guy said that he did not know the answer, because he could not find anyone who knew what the difference was between the kits. Does anyone know the difference?
Does anyone have the 5.0 TBird kit from Kenne-Bell?

XR7 Dave
01-29-2009, 09:33 AM
Perfect timing for this thread! I just bought a '90 SC with the idea of doing the 5.0 with KB Supercharger swap. But, I just talked to Kenne-Bell and they say that they do not sell the supercharger kit for T-Birds anymore. So I asked if I could use the 5.0 Mustang kit. The tech guy said that he did not know the answer, because he could not find anyone who knew what the difference was between the kits. Does anyone know the difference?
Does anyone have the 5.0 TBird kit from Kenne-Bell?

I believe you can use the 94/5 Mustang kit but it will require an aftermarket hood.

decipha
01-29-2009, 03:34 PM
I currently own 3 supercoupes (3x v6 3.8 supercharged) and a 92 stock 5.0 lx that i swapped in a 351w and m5r2.

If i had it my way I would have stayed with the 5.0 and put a supercharger on it like I originally wanted to. Only reason why I went with the 351w is because I threw 2 rods in the 5.0. Thats when the 351w swap for a few hundred more appealed to me.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. If your interested in knowing how involved it is I have a swap thread.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=103398&page=19

sd_iconoclast
01-30-2009, 03:33 AM
I currently own 3 supercoupes (3x v6 3.8 supercharged) and a 92 stock 5.0 lx that i swapped in a 351w and m5r2.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=103398&page=19

decipha, why did you choose the M5R2?
One of my goals is to eliminate the M5R2 in favor of something like a T56.
I find M5R2s to very difficult to shift quickly, particularly in lower gears.

MadMikeyL
01-30-2009, 11:57 AM
decipha, why did you choose the M5R2?
One of my goals is to eliminate the M5R2 in favor of something like a T56.
I find M5R2s to very difficult to shift quickly, particularly in lower gears.

The problem with the M5R2 being difficult to shift is entirely in the shifter. Replace the stock ~~~ shifter with a B&M ripper, and it shifts just fine. Plus the M5R2 is strong and cheap, whereas the T5 is weak and cheap and the T56 is strong and expensive.

sd_iconoclast
01-30-2009, 01:12 PM
The problem with the M5R2 being difficult to shift is entirely in the shifter. Replace the stock ~~~ shifter with a B&M ripper, and it shifts just fine. Plus the M5R2 is strong and cheap, whereas the T5 is weak and cheap and the T56 is strong and expensive.

Great! I will definitely try the B&M shifter.
I agree the that M5R2 is strong and cheap, and the T56 is expensive, but it does have one extra gear.

Also, I had always heard that the M5R2 would not bolt up to a smallblock. Is an adapter required?

MadMikeyL
01-30-2009, 01:25 PM
Nope. The 3.8 and the SBF have the exact same bell housing bolt pattern. The only thing is you need to get the correct flywheel, or have the SC flywheel rebalanced. Other than that, its a direct bolt-in swap.

sd_iconoclast
01-30-2009, 01:34 PM
Nope. The 3.8 and the SBF have the exact same bell housing bolt pattern. The only thing is you need to get the correct flywheel, or have the SC flywheel rebalanced. Other than that, its a direct bolt-in swap.

How do the shifter locations compare between M5R2 and 91 mustang T5?

MadMikeyL
01-30-2009, 01:54 PM
The T5 shifter will come up about 6" too far forward for the tbird. The M5R2 will come out in the exact right location.