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93SC87GN
02-26-2009, 08:54 PM
https://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=199

This is the new tuning chip. Realtime control!

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67950#p67950

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67971#p67971

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67858#p67858

The last one is about installation. Seems pretty simple.

Just FYI from a fellow SC lover, although I currently have no mn12 car.

Travis

fturner
02-26-2009, 09:38 PM
There's already full support for the Quarterhorse for the SC's now ;).

Its very slick working with it.

Fraser

Thomas A
02-26-2009, 09:40 PM
I'm confused here..... :confused:

http://vip.6to23.com/gorster/Image/QuarterHorse.jpg

Thomas

93SC87GN
02-26-2009, 09:58 PM
With Quarterhorse, all you need is the stock bin for your specific computer, or something pretty close. Then have fun.

Travis

KMT
02-26-2009, 10:02 PM
This is the new tuning chip. Realtime control!



Interesting info, thanks for the links!

decipha
02-26-2009, 10:53 PM
i seen it the other day when i was browsing the moates site.

its on my to get list soon as tax return comes through

fturner
02-26-2009, 10:58 PM
An update to whats on the site, as it was a last second change. The QH will handle multiple tunes, and can be switch both by a switch wired into the QH and using software such as BinaryEditor.

The only program out there that has support for the SC's at this time is Binary Editor.

Fraser

XR7 Dave
02-27-2009, 12:14 AM
With Quarterhorse, all you need is the stock bin for your specific computer, or something pretty close. Then have fun.

Travis

Not exactly. You still need the software to run it (BE) and the definition files that tell it what to do with your "stock bin" (see Frit).

KMT
02-27-2009, 01:11 AM
Moates.Net (http://www.moates.net/info_pages.php?pages_id=14)

'File Uploads and Downloads'
Files Available for upload or download including stock binaries, custom bins, datastream definitions, source code, etc.

Please note that a pseudo-username and password is needed to access the file area. Use the following text (not your actual username/password!) for general access:
User = moatesuser
Password = moatespassword

http://www.moates.net/fileman/

93SC87GN
02-27-2009, 02:07 AM
Sorry

I thought I mentioned BE....anyways seems like a super good product. I have always loved supercharged MN12. I have owned three. IMHO the turbo cars where easier to deal with. Now with this hardware/software, im looking to change that.

Travis

pearl95sc
02-27-2009, 03:30 AM
So I'm curious, the eec editor won't support the SC mapping? I played with the eec editor software to see just what you could adjust, and was pretty impressed, albeit, a few yrs ago, but it seemed promising.

As far as the stock bin or a binary to go off of, if you have a chip already on the expansion port, that is a standard chip that could go into a chipper/reader, couldn't you pull the information and use that info as a starting point, or is the info on the chip for the expansion port just piggybacking its way in?

I ask because I use the Ostrich and the Burn1 along with the LM2/RPM converter setup for my honda tuning and it works out great. And if adapting this stuff to tune my SC is an option, I'll definately go that route.


And Thomas, thats funny. That your idea of an extra horse power?

93SC87GN
02-27-2009, 10:04 AM
QH doesnt read the current tune of the factory chip. I guess the whole idea of this chip is to leave the stock ecu alone. I would suppose because it is so limited in the eec-4. Side note, QH also does eec-5.

On the software front, im not sure which ones are supported. I know of Binary Editor.

Travis

fturner
02-27-2009, 10:28 AM
The only software out there that has the information to support our cars is BinaryEditor. This is the work I've been doing for the last year to decode all the programming in the EEC's and figure out all the settings, as well as where values are stored to datalog them.

While EEC Editor was an option I looked at, I was concerned about its stability as it kept crashing on me. Also it had no means of protecting the definition information from "pirates" and stealing it. I've had several occasions of people "borrowing" the work I've done and claim it for themselves. We're talking 100's of hours of work building these definitions.

I also have a couple of projects on the go to interface with the QH using datalogging tools people are familiar with and I'm hoping to have initial releases in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned :D.

The strategy definitions that are used with our cars are the following...

GURE - 1989/1990 (these will cover the 89/90 SC'd Cougars as well)
GSALC - 1991
GSALI - 1992/1993
CZAW0 - 1994/1995

While the QH gives you almost all the information you need to "tune" your car, you also at the minimal need a WideBand O2 sensor and I suggest the Innovate LC1.

You need to start with a stock bin file that matches the calibration code for your car, such as C0S, L0E1, M2Y, or T4J1 and so on. I've managed to grab some of them I've had access to, and when I come across another code, I'll grab it and will have it online. If you can't find one, generally you can use one of the other calibrations that are close to your own, such as using C0S in a 90 auto car. Just ask.

Fraser

fturner
02-27-2009, 10:37 AM
So I'm curious, the eec editor won't support the SC mapping? I played with the eec editor software to see just what you could adjust, and was pretty impressed, albeit, a few yrs ago, but it seemed promising.

As far as the stock bin or a binary to go off of, if you have a chip already on the expansion port, that is a standard chip that could go into a chipper/reader, couldn't you pull the information and use that info as a starting point, or is the info on the chip for the expansion port just piggybacking its way in?

I ask because I use the Ostrich and the Burn1 along with the LM2/RPM converter setup for my honda tuning and it works out great. And if adapting this stuff to tune my SC is an option, I'll definately go that route.


And Thomas, thats funny. That your idea of an extra horse power?

Since you have a Burn1 already, get the Ford based adapters for it and you can grab the tune off of the chip. The Burn1 can read several different chip types from other folks. Contact me for some more info if you want.

With the QH, the only other thing you need for your car is a Wideband, as the QH will give you everything else you need.

Fraser

XR7 Dave
02-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Since you have a Burn1 already, get the Ford based adapters for it and you can grab the tune off of the chip. The Burn1 can read several different chip types from other folks. Contact me for some more info if you want.

With the QH, the only other thing you need for your car is a Wideband, as the QH will give you everything else you need.

Fraser

Just to be clear, because we seem to have conflicting information here, what do people need to tune?

If you buy a QH, what do you do, just plug it in?

No, you need a couple other things.

1) You need Binary Editor (http://www.eecanalyzer.net/shop/) - $80

2) You need a BIN file - free, download your own off your EEC or find one online. Be aware than an online version may or may not be the original file! If you want to download your own you'll need the F2A and F2E adapters with Burn 1 from Moates.

3) You need a DEF file (http://www.sctuning.net/Catalog-Software_2.aspx). This is the hard part and none of this works without a DEF file. This is the file that tells the software what everything is and where to find it. Fraser has developed the DEF files for SC's and you'll have to see him for DEF files that support the QH.

I'm not saying any of this is terribly difficult, but it seems there is confusion about how this works and people should know that the QH does not come with the software necessary to tune an SC.

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 11:20 AM
...don't we already have a thread going on about this?


lol

Mine just came in today.:D

fturner
02-27-2009, 11:31 AM
I'll hopefully get the updated defs uploaded this evening.

Fraser

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 11:32 AM
I'll hopefully get the updated defs uploaded this evening.

Fraser

I sent you a PM the other day....

I'll get you that bin file today or tomorrow.:)

Oh and as a side note....my Z1Z2 computer doesn't have any of those components that I need to bend out of the way as shown in the mustang computers. It's pretty much bare in the spot that the QH needs to go. ::Thumbs up::

QuickMustang
02-27-2009, 01:22 PM
I'll hopefully get the updated defs uploaded this evening.

Fraser

Are you charging for these defs or not? If you are giving us all these things as a freeby, you are awesome! If not, it's still pretty awesome that you figured it all out...


Also, what does it take to get the wideband to be read by the QH?

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Are you charging for these defs or not? If you are giving us all these things as a freeby, you are awesome! If not, it's still pretty awesome that you figured it all out...


Also, what does it take to get the wideband to be read by the QH?

Nothing is free in life. Fraser spent a lot of time on this stuff. I'm sure he can answer any pricing questions, but in the meantime, check out his website www.sctuning.net. All def. files need to be licensed, and I believe if you bought them in the past, you are covered.

As for the wideband, the QH will not read it directly unless you plumb it into the EGR input on the computer and log a 0-5v signal and have a transfer function to represent it as AFR or Lambda.

He is working on the EEK Datalogger which will be able to read QH outputs into logworks for datalogging.

XR7 Dave
02-27-2009, 01:39 PM
Are you charging for these defs or not? If you are giving us all these things as a freeby, you are awesome! If not, it's still pretty awesome that you figured it all out...


Follow the link www.sctuning.net (http://www.sctuning.net/Catalog-Software_2.aspx) to obtain a DEF file. Fraser is awesome for doing this for the SC market and this is well worth many times what he is charging.

DrFishbone
02-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Mine just came in today.:D

I'm jealous... :p

Have you used it yet?

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 02:00 PM
I'm jealous... :p

Have you used it yet?

Nah...it's sitting on my desk.

I've been following the development for about 7 months now. I checked Moates site every day, and when I came out last friday, I was quick to jump on it.

I'll be doing some testing soon, as soon as I finish up this tubular k-member.

fturner
02-27-2009, 02:08 PM
At this point, until I release the EEK Logger, BinaryEditor does have the capability of directly reading from any of the Innovate devices, such as the LC1 wideband, and be able to read directly from the QH at the same time. The datalog file generated is a csv file that can be opened by Excel and/or some other programs.

EEK Logger will be used to capture the data from the QH and feed it into Logworks, which comes with the Innovate hardware. You will still need to use BE to do the tuning, but you won't be using it to do the datalogging.

Fraser

XR7 Dave
02-27-2009, 05:05 PM
At this point, until I release the EEK Logger, BinaryEditor does have the capability of directly reading from any of the Innovate devices, such as the LC1 wideband, and be able to read directly from the QH at the same time. The datalog file generated is a csv file that can be opened by Excel and/or some other programs.

EEK Logger will be used to capture the data from the QH and feed it into Logworks, which comes with the Innovate hardware. You will still need to use BE to do the tuning, but you won't be using it to do the datalogging.

Fraser

Don't you mean "does NOT have"?

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 05:15 PM
Don't you mean "does NOT have"?

BE has that feature, I've used it, but haven't been too thrilled about it.

Ira R.
02-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Follow the link www.sctuning.net (http://www.sctuning.net/Catalog-Software_2.aspx) to obtain a DEF file. Fraser is awesome for doing this for the SC market and this is well worth many times what he is charging.

Is that a different file then the one you would get from here with BE??

http://www.eecanalyzer.net/DocMan/GuestOut.php

And how is the one Fraser is working on different??

Ira

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 05:48 PM
Is that a different file then the one you would get from here with BE??

http://www.eecanalyzer.net/DocMan/GuestOut.php

And how is the one Fraser is working on different??

Ira

The things listed on the BE site are the stock binary files.

The def. file is basically a template which gets the locations for all the parameters needed. There is a lot of work involved in doing address tracing to get the locations, and we're rather lucky to have Fraser on-board to work his magic.

To do tuning in BE you'll need both the .def file AND the binary file (which will be saved to .cry format and uploaded to the chip)

fturner
02-27-2009, 05:49 PM
I'll be posting up the cry read-only def files into those folders this evening I hope so you can look at whats available. Right now its just the bin files of some of the calibrations that are available.

I'll be keeping the current cry files that you will be using on my site for download. There will be 2 versions of the cry files of which you can use either with your license. The base file will have the settings you need for tuning, where as the other file will have everything that is known... and alot of that you'll never change.

Fraser

fastsc92
02-27-2009, 06:05 PM
My Pony has arrived....

I didn't have to touch any components for this to fit right in.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/fastsc92/qh001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/fastsc92/qh002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/fastsc92/qh003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/fastsc92/qh004.jpg




I may make something to cover up the end of the board a little, and also drill a small hole in the aluminum housing and use that as a cable anchor.




:D

Pacman
02-28-2009, 10:53 AM
So is this everything you need?

http://www.sctuning.net/Product-Tuning-Kit-for-the-Self-Tuner_9.aspx

Will it read the signal off a wideband 02 sensor directly or will you need some kind of wideband controler?

fastsc92
02-28-2009, 11:04 AM
In order for any wideband sensor to work, it needs a controler. This is due to the sensor heating circuit as well as how it functions (pumper cell).

If you purchase an Innovate LC-1, you'll be good to go. But PLX also offers a comparable wideband. I prefer the Innovate due to their tech support, sales and software.

In addition to what was posted in the link above, you'll need to purchase a copy of Binary Editor from Clint Garity over at eecanalyzer.net.

To sum it up for everyone, you'll need the following items

Moates Quarterhorse (Moates.net)
Def. File and license for your car from Fraser (sctuning.net)
Binary Editor software license (eecanalyzer.net)
Wideband o2, optional but highly recommended if you plan to do any tuning (Innovatemotorsports.com)


Fraser has put together a nice package so you'll be able to get the QH, the def. file and the EEK data logger all in one bundle, available on his website.


All the datalogging from the QH is saved in a .cvs file (spreadsheet), and can be viewed that way. Fraser is also working on the EEK data logger, which will take the QH datalogging information and feed it into logworks (Innovate Motorsports) and basically create new channels.

I will be working on a detailed write-up of everything involved with getting the QH set-up, including hardware install, set-up, functionality, screenshots, examples, etc. Stay tuned....


:)

XR7 Dave
02-28-2009, 11:43 AM
At $365 for the QH and software, + $80 for BE, + $199 for LC1 = ~ $650 total investment for the ability to both tune realtime and datalog in a readable and usable format is the deal of a lifetime for the SC enthusiast.

This won't get you the tune itself, but it will get you all the tools required. Anyone who already has a chip and wants to upgrade to this level, you can start off with your existing tune and work upward from there + plus you can then sell your chip to someone else who isn't interested in tuning. They in turn can have the chip reprogrammed to suit their exact application.

I know this isn't the place to be talking about prices and services so I'll stop there. For the purpose of this discussion though, hopefully we've made it clear what you need, where to get it, and what is involved in making it work.

Dangle
02-28-2009, 12:18 PM
Fraser
What about those of use who have already purchased a Moates chip from you in the past? Is it the same one your selling on your site? Seems like the flasher comes with the the new chip...Since I have the chip and recieved a base tune from you, is there any reason to get a flasher to re-flash via email tunes, or is that more for people looking to flash their first base tune once they get the chip etc in the mail?
I would think anymore tuning on my car would be done on the road or at a dyno, but I could be wrong

Dan

fturner
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
If you want quick updates to your tune via email then yes you should get just the Jaybird since you already have a chip. Thats still no replacement for a proper tune though, as base tunes will only somewhat get you there.

Fraser