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kenewagner
03-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Bear with me as I try to clarify in my mind about how this works. If you run a nonlocking torque converter, is the nonlocking feature a part of the torque converter or does the transmission have the non locking feature as part of its function or do both need to be set up for nonlocking. Pardon the question if it sounds dumb but having talked to a few diffrent guys they didnt seem to know either. I purchased a Lentec Transmission from a local member who said it was a nonlocking design. The torque converter came from a diffrent local member. Both parts, so I understand came from Lentec. Both have been running in a car for a short time. If I decided to switch to a locking torque converter does the tranny need to be changed as well as the converter itself?
More than anything I want to be educated on what I put in my car.
Ken

ricardoa1
03-16-2009, 11:46 AM
In a non-locking converter by definition means the two pices of the converter will be at at different speeds. A locking one has a clutch like disc that engages locking both pieces into one. So you get all the power transfer to the trans and not have it absorbed by a slipping TQ.

thats why 4 speed automatics feel like they have 5 gears. In fouth you fell like there is another shift, that shift like feel is the converter locking up into one piece.

ricardoa1
03-16-2009, 11:51 AM
To add you should be able to interchange the converter and not have to worry about the tranny.

And this locking feature is really only used for fuel mileage and not performance.

kenewagner
03-16-2009, 12:27 PM
To add you should be able to interchange the converter and not have to worry about the tranny.

And this locking feature is really only used for fuel mileage and not performance.

So the converter itself is what makes either nonlocking or locking? The transmission has nothing to do with that, correct?

There is a lot of discussion both ways on what is better. It just happens that this transmission had a non locking converter with a 2200 stall

Ken

ricardoa1
03-16-2009, 12:33 PM
Right, the clutch that makes it a locking converter is part of the converter and not the trans. Unless the reference was deleted where it gets the signal then it should work both ways.
Stall speed is another subject. and that has to do with the amount of slipping that happens on the converter.

SuperChicken89
03-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Ken... I assume you are talking about an AOD... correct?. If you are, the AOD doesn't utilize a "Locking" type of converter. It is a direct drive setup for OD and D(3rd). The AOD uses a dual input shaft where the inner shaft is the direct drive shaft connected to the direct clutch and the other end is connected directly to the mating spline which is welded to the TQ cover. An "Open" type of AOD converter doesn't have this direct drive setup for OD and D.

Now to muddy the waters even more, Lentech uses the OEM dual input shaft setup for their lower HP AODs and a single input shaft for the higher HP AODs.

Check out Len's web site for more information on the different model AODs.

Bryan

ricardoa1
03-16-2009, 12:51 PM
Ken... I assume you are talking about an AOD... correct?. If you are, the AOD doesn't utilize a "Locking" type of converter. It is a direct drive setup for OD and D(3rd). The AOD uses a dual input shaft where the inner shaft is the direct drive shaft connected to the direct clutch and the other end is connected directly to the mating spline which is welded to the TQ cover. An "Open" type of AOD converter doesn't have this direct drive setup for OD and D.

Now to muddy the waters even more, Lentech uses the OEM dual input shaft setup for their lower HP AODs and a single input shaft for the higher HP AODs.

Check out Len's web site for more information on the different model AODs.

Bryan


Thanks for clearing that up in time. Normal rules never apply to SCs go figure. :D

ricardoa1
03-16-2009, 01:09 PM
Ken forgive me for giving wrong answers I forgot that the AOD used that direct drive system. I was thinking AODE/4R70W which I am almost 99.9%positive it uses a clutch on the torque converter and its actuated electronically. But I could be wrong again. I do remember this is what i had on my moms Mark VIII and 94' 4.6l T-bird.

SuperChicken89
03-16-2009, 01:11 PM
Alright.... I stand corrected. Len does refer to the Torque Converters as a "Lock-Up" and "Non-Locked" types. I thought he was the person who corrected me when refering to AOD converters as Lock-up. I guess it was someone else:rolleyes:

I'm by no means an AOD expert! Someone like Alan (Dirtydog) would be a good person to ask questions about the AOD.

Bryan

David Neibert
03-16-2009, 02:18 PM
Ken... I assume you are talking about an AOD... correct?. If you are, the AOD doesn't utilize a "Locking" type of converter. It is a direct drive setup for OD and D(3rd). The AOD uses a dual input shaft where the inner shaft is the direct drive shaft connected to the direct clutch and the other end is connected directly to the mating spline which is welded to the TQ cover. An "Open" type of AOD converter doesn't have this direct drive setup for OD and D.

Now to muddy the waters even more, Lentech uses the OEM dual input shaft setup for their lower HP AODs and a single input shaft for the higher HP AODs.

Check out Len's web site for more information on the different model AODs.

Bryan

This is correct...both my cars have Lentech non locking converters (no direct drive). My 91 retains the dual shaft setup but I'm using a hardned inner shaft and my 93 uses the one piece solid input shaft. I think the car must have the two piece shaft in order to have direct drive in 3rd and OD.

Ken...suggest you call Lentech to determine what is required to go back to direct drive on your transmission.

David

kenewagner
03-16-2009, 02:36 PM
Ken... I assume you are talking about an AOD... correct?. If you are, the AOD doesn't utilize a "Locking" type of converter. It is a direct drive setup for OD and D(3rd). The AOD uses a dual input shaft where the inner shaft is the direct drive shaft connected to the direct clutch and the other end is connected directly to the mating spline which is welded to the TQ cover. An "Open" type of AOD converter doesn't have this direct drive setup for OD and D.

Now to muddy the waters even more, Lentech uses the OEM dual input shaft setup for their lower HP AODs and a single input shaft for the higher HP AODs.

Check out Len's web site for more information on the different model AODs.

Bryan

The transmission I bought is a Street Terminator. According to the Lentec site it has the single input shaft and has like 3 diffrent non locking TQ converters as options. So regardless if one wanted to go with a locking TQ converter that is not an option as it is set up now.

Ken

kenewagner
03-16-2009, 02:43 PM
This is correct...both my cars have Lentech non locking converters (no direct drive). My 91 retains the dual shaft setup but I'm using a hardned inner shaft and my 93 uses the one piece solid input shaft. I think the car must have the two piece shaft in order to have direct drive in 3rd and OD.

Ken...suggest you call Lentech to determine what is required to go back to direct drive on your transmission.

David

Havent really decided to change it. Just trying to understand how it all works. Will likely keep it the way it is as my money is flowing out the window in larger and larger amounts:p

Ken

David Neibert
03-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Havent really decided to change it. Just trying to understand how it all works. Will likely keep it the way it is as my money is flowing out the window in larger and larger amounts:p

Ken

Good...because even though it's not nearly as efficent, I still think the non locking setup is better.

David

ScrapSC
03-17-2009, 11:26 AM
Good...because even though it's not nearly as efficent, I still think the non locking setup is better.

David

I have been wondering if there would be any benefit in E.T. or MPH going with a Non-Locking vs. Locking.... I am still running a lock up PI Torque Converter 2800 stahl in the ole silver B.........

SilverFox
03-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Stock lockup shaft have been known to break at 350hp but under controlled situations (proper VB calibration) they can last up to 450. Drop a NON LOCK converter in with the stock shaft and it will take the abuse above 500 possibly...given that the stock Cast drum doesn't snap. Even using the hardest components available in the 2pc application, the FWD drum input shaft will twist off at 600hp (given you don't have lentech's special unit)

For MPG, daily, or under 450, lockup is still just fine and dandy..however I am not a fan of "direct drive" (aka Lockup). Get rid of it.