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View Full Version : New SCU 4.3 engine pics



David Neibert
03-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Thought you guys might like to see some pictures of the new motor that Dave just finished building for my 91. Only thing that changed from the pictures is the head allignment dowels, they were cut to allow for expansion of the heads, in an effort to prevent them from lifting.


http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU1.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU2.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU3.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU4.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU5.jpg

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/SCU6.jpg


David

ricardoa1
03-24-2009, 12:53 PM
its no good on an engine stand :p

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 01:13 PM
its no good on an engine stand :p


I've only had it for two days. If all goes to plan, it's going in the car this weekend :cool:

David

ricardoa1
03-24-2009, 01:15 PM
What did you keep from the old one? Looks like its all new. Are the rockers the same? they look different. then your standard RR.

90blkbrd
03-24-2009, 01:19 PM
You must be really excited. I can't wait to hear about the results.

neverfastenough
03-24-2009, 01:30 PM
DD has some rattle can skills, Look at the pretty block:p. DO WORK David, Make a burnout video, maybe a little donut too;).

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 01:31 PM
What did you keep from the old one? Looks like its all new. Are the rockers the same? they look different. then your standard RR.

Ricardo

I kept the late model timing cover, oil pump, BHJ balancer and the rocker covers....everything else is new. The rockers are something new that Dave has recently developed to allow increasing the rpms without the loss of valve train stability. All I can really tell you, is they look to be way stronger than anything else I've ever seen on SC head.

David

Ira R.
03-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Well the man can build an engine. Good luck of course and let us see some results so we can all ooh and ahh appropriately :D In fact I want to be green with envy over this build! ;) :D

Ira :D

TSC89
03-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Looks good Dave. It will be interesting to hear about the results.

Ken Seegers
03-24-2009, 02:09 PM
David,
Looks good! Is the cam the same spec as before?
I take it Kurt and Chris will over this weekend helping.

Ken

pablon2
03-24-2009, 02:12 PM
Looks sweet indeed. Looking forward to seeing dyno results and hopefully see it run in person.

rzimmerl
03-24-2009, 02:22 PM
It was a very nice piece to look at last weekend :D. The rocker setup that was develeped is very nice and well engineered. Good to see you made it back, and can't wait to hear the results.

Toms-SC
03-24-2009, 02:36 PM
Looks good. Looking forward to hear of some results.

pablon2
03-24-2009, 02:38 PM
Only thing that changed from the pictures is the head allignment dowels, they were cut to allow for expansion of the heads, in an effort to prevent them from lifting.

David


This is the third mention of people cutting the dowels that I have come across the past month. Which way are they cut and how are they aligned/inserted into the block? I am at a point where I could do that too, but just need some clarification. I am assuming half moon with flat edge facing center of the block?

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 02:39 PM
It was a very nice piece to look at last weekend :D. The rocker setup that was develeped is very nice and well engineered. Good to see you made it back, and can't wait to hear the results.

Ryan,

Nice seeing you again. Sorry I was a little groggy from being up till 4:30 the night before and didn't recognize you. I thought you looked real familiar and asked Dave who you were shortly after you left. After he told me I felt like a real jerk for not saying anything.

David

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 02:45 PM
David,
Looks good! Is the cam the same spec as before?
I take it Kurt and Chris will over this weekend helping.

Ken

Ken,

Bigger cam and higher ratio rockers on this one. I haven't asked either one of those guys to help yet, but I'm hoping at least one of them is avalible. I'll be out of town the next weekend, then the following weekend is Easter...so I need to at least get the motor sitting in the car this weekend, then I can do the rest of the stuff as time allows in the evenings after work.

David

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 02:53 PM
This is the third mention of people cutting the dowels that I have come across the past month. Which way are they cut and how are they aligned/inserted into the block? I am at a point where I could do that too, but just need some clarification. I am assuming half moon with flat edge facing center of the block?


Correct...but only the portion sticking out of the block is cut.

David

Dangle
03-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Looks really great. Good luck the rest of the way!

kenewagner
03-24-2009, 03:09 PM
Bigger cam and higher ratio rockers on this one.
David

Can you share the specs on the cam and ratio on the rockers. Looking forward to see how it performs. I am rethinking my power plant as well, although that is further down the road this year

Ken

rzimmerl
03-24-2009, 03:41 PM
No problem, the both of you looked beat, and I could tell that you were not looking forward to the trip back. I'll catch up with you in May.

Kurt K
03-24-2009, 04:05 PM
Ken,

Bigger cam and higher ratio rockers on this one. I haven't asked either one of those guys to help yet, but I'm hoping at least one of them is avalible. I'll be out of town the next weekend, then the following weekend is Easter...so I need to at least get the motor sitting in the car this weekend, then I can do the rest of the stuff as time allows in the evenings after work.

David

I'm not available on Satuday, but might be available on Sunday.....work is kicking my butt right now.

Young-SC-Owner
03-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Is there not any Jesel products available for this engine?...They do make a quality product IMO

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Can you share the specs on the cam and ratio on the rockers. Looking forward to see how it performs. I am rethinking my power plant as well, although that is further down the road this year

Ken

Ken,

I don't have the exact specs on the cam, but it's something like 230/236 .600/.600 made from a new core. Old rockers were 1.65:1 new rockers are 1.73:1.

David

David Neibert
03-24-2009, 04:23 PM
I'm not available on Satuday, but might be available on Sunday.....work is kicking my butt right now.

Sunday works for me.....I only need help getting the motor bolted in, stabbing the dipstick tube and bolting the long tube headers on. The rest I can do by myself. I think Chris might also be able to help on Sunday.

David

PS: I need to get that controller back from you, for the meth injection.

Kurt K
03-24-2009, 05:57 PM
Sunday works for me.....I only need help getting the motor bolted in, stabbing the dipstick tube and bolting the long tube headers on. The rest I can do by myself. I think Chris might also be able to help on Sunday.

David

PS: I need to get that controller back from you, for the meth injection.
I said "might" depends on work and the kids. Anyway, I saw your note about the controller and was hoping to buy a new one today, but I was too busy at work today to do it. I will get one ordered tomorrow.

Kevin Leitem
03-24-2009, 06:02 PM
David, Looks good, doing that to that alignment dowels really seems like it helps. I thought you got the strocker from supersix? hope you have it at Dayton

Mike8675309
03-24-2009, 08:01 PM
adjustable valvetrain? cast crank? Who's rockers are those.

It all looks nice.

CMac89
03-24-2009, 08:03 PM
OOoooOOo, about time someone started using the Yella Terra rocker arms. They're definitely better than stud mounted setups.

I wish you luck, sir.

NEEDaSCbad
03-24-2009, 08:28 PM
I'll be over saturday and/or sunday to help. Just give me a call. I also have a good friend (a-man930 here) that is going to ranken for automotive maintenace. We just did a motor swap on his jeep (retrofit from a later model), he may also be able to help if you would need an extra hand.

Seth

kenewagner
03-24-2009, 08:38 PM
OOoooOOo, about time someone started using the Yella Terra rocker arms. They're definitely better than stud mounted setups.

I wish you luck, sir.

I went and pull up their web site. Interesting reading. I wonder what they cost. Nice to know they are available. As always Casey, your a wealth of knowledge

Ken

rzimmerl
03-24-2009, 08:59 PM
I wonder what they cost.

I'll let someone else answer that question ;), they are not cheap.

lineboy55
03-24-2009, 09:04 PM
was a cast crank used??

Toms-SC
03-24-2009, 09:31 PM
was a cast crank used??

Yes. David is a man on a mission.

CMac89
03-24-2009, 10:22 PM
I'll estimate that it's about $650-$700 for the rockers, pedestals, bolts, and shims.

Unlike the stud mounted rockers, you don't need guide plates!

superdadsc
03-24-2009, 11:19 PM
Nice David! Thats sweet!

Stephen

19TbirdSC91
03-25-2009, 12:20 AM
That motor looks absolutely beautiful David! I'm sure it will be very impressive as always!



I'll let someone else answer that question ;), they are not cheap.

How's your car coming along Ryan? Mine is VERY close to being complete now that its warmer out. The car falling on Shane kind of slowed us up temporarily, but all is good now.

Sean

David Neibert
03-25-2009, 12:54 AM
David, Looks good, doing that to that alignment dowels really seems like it helps. I thought you got the strocker from supersix? hope you have it at Dayton

What you said about the head expanding and being forced upward because of the allignment dowel tubes made a lot of sense, so we decided to give it a try.

Dave supplied all the motor components, except for a few parts I reused from my old motor...he used a new 4.2 cast crank (netural balance), Scat rods, custom Wisco pistons and Total seal rings for 8.5:1 static compression. He also spend a lot of time deburring the block and prepping the crank. Geometry on the rockers is spot on perfect and the CNC ported heads turned out very good. All and all, I'm very pleased with how it turned out.

Now that I've got it running strong, I'm planning to bring the turbo car to the Spring meet to see if I can make a few respectable passes. I'll be racing the 91 at an NMRA race this summer in Joilet and will also be bringing it to the Shootout.

David

David Neibert
03-25-2009, 01:33 AM
I said "might" depends on work and the kids.

Kurt,

I read that part..I just choose to ignore it. If you can't make it, that's okay.

David

19TbirdSC91
03-25-2009, 02:52 AM
David, do you ever plan on using nitrous again? Or would that be eminent death for the cast crank? I don't know much about the cast 4.2 crank at all.

Agentorange88
03-25-2009, 05:41 AM
Are you not using an oil cooler with that setup?

old_coot
03-25-2009, 09:00 AM
I'll estimate that it's about $650-$700 for the rockers, pedestals, bolts, and shims.

Unlike the stud mounted rockers, you don't need guide plates!

That should cover the parts and I'm guessing the machine work might closely match that number---good stuff ain't cheap.............Dan

XR7 Dave
03-25-2009, 09:28 AM
That should cover the parts and I'm guessing the machine work might closely match that number---good stuff ain't cheap.............Dan

It's probably more affordable than you think. I'm not going to get into pricing here because this isn't the place for it, but if anyone is looking to dramatically reduce valvetrain flex and improve geometry, I can help you with that.

old_coot
03-25-2009, 10:12 AM
It's probably more affordable than you think. I'm not going to get into pricing here because this isn't the place for it, but if anyone is looking to dramatically reduce valvetrain flex and improve geometry, I can help you with that.

Cool---I'm sure we will be talking.

kenewagner
03-25-2009, 10:17 AM
It's probably more affordable than you think. I'm not going to get into pricing here because this isn't the place for it, but if anyone is looking to dramatically reduce valvetrain flex and improve geometry, I can help you with that.

What you need Dave is a web site that shows your services, parts, and tuning and pricing. I know I would be there scopeing it out and ordering;)
I will be talking to you as well soon

Ken

90blkbrd
03-25-2009, 10:36 AM
What you need Dave is a web site that shows your services, parts, and tuning and pricing. I know I would be there scopeing it out and ordering;)
I will be talking to you as well soon

Ken

Or a 100 page email you can send every time someone asks for pricing.

David Neibert
03-25-2009, 11:27 AM
David, do you ever plan on using nitrous again? Or would that be eminent death for the cast crank? I don't know much about the cast 4.2 crank at all.

No...I sold the entire nitrous system. I only used it about once or twice a year and just got tired of breaking stuff or not having it function correctly. I'm also not wanting to cause damage to the body since having everything fixed and repainted. Before getting it repaired It had several wrinkles in the sheet metal around the moon roof and I recently found a small crack in the firewall...I'm fairly certian that launching with slicks while using the nitrous is what caused the damage.

David

quick35th
03-25-2009, 12:30 PM
No...I sold the entire nitrous system. I only used it about once or twice a year and just got tired of breaking stuff or not having it function correctly. I'm also not wanting to cause damage to the body since having everything fixed and repainted. Before getting it repaired It had several wrinkles in the sheet metal around the moon roof and I recently found a small crack in the firewall...I'm fairly certian that launching with slicks while using the nitrous is what caused the damage.

David

Ouch David that sucks. You should weld all the seams in the engine bay before putting the engine back in. It would stiffen the front end quite a bit in doing so.

Shane
Glynn Motorsports

David Neibert
03-25-2009, 02:33 PM
Are you not using an oil cooler with that setup?

Yes, I'll still be using the stock oil cooler. The filter was installed directly to the pump for priming/testing the oil pump with an electric drill. We also tested the oil pressure (95 psi @ a calculated 1200 engine rpms) and to make sure we were getting enough oil circulation up to the rockers.

David

KMT
03-25-2009, 03:19 PM
>I'm fairly certian that launching with slicks while using the nitrous is what caused the damage.

Seems 'torque blemishes' in the shell are endemic to these cars, irrespective of performance. Just about anyone can find them if they look close enough (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102089&highlight=cracks+body).

superdadsc
03-25-2009, 08:11 PM
Dave With the extra 1/2L and a bigger cam and those new heads I think gaining 25rwhp is very concervative. TQ who knows but it will be a monster!:eek:

Stephen

David Neibert
03-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Dave With the extra 1/2L and a bigger cam and those new heads I think gaining 25rwhp is very concervative. TQ who knows but it will be a monster!:eek:

Stephen

Stephen,

Over the past 9 years I've done numerous mods to my SC that didn't produce the results I expected. So these days I keep my expectations low, and that way I never get dissapointed.

Having all the stuff I think is needed to reach my goal of 450 rwhp, does not mean it will actually happen. I had everything I needed to reach one of my old goals (going from 11.76 to 11.49) and it still took a couple years because of things going wrong. I've also been working on beating the best ET by my v6 car, with the v8 turbo car for going on 3 years...and I still haven't done it :o

Eventually I will reach my goals, then I'll set new ones.


David

XxSlowpokexX
03-26-2009, 02:11 AM
Engine looks great Dave. Dying to see how the cast cranks holds up.

I guess Dave #2 would better answer exactly what the rocker setup is. I have the Harland Sharp adjustable bolt down rockers (they make 1.73 and 1.8's) that have a sim means of adjustment as the ones on your engine. What looks wildly different is the actual pedastal that they rest on. Were these heads drilled for studs originally or is that just some sort of special peice. I'll probbaly be ok with such a small lift cam but that looks beefier then what I have.

I kinda wish you still were using the same heads and cam though to see just how much a difference the extra cubes make. I do have a feeling however youll be making more hp and a bit more torque then expected... unless the cam choice doesnt work out as planned. I dont think an extra 45rwt would be abnormal at all at this point
Again good luck!

kenewagner
03-26-2009, 08:40 AM
Over the past 9 years I've done numerous mods to my SC that didn't produce the results I expected. So these days I keep my expectations low, and that way I never get dissapointed.


Eventually I will reach my goals, then I'll set new ones.


David

Guess i'm about 2 years behind you having owned the car for 7 years. But with all the changes I have made, and less than optimum results I try not to get my expectations to high anymore. Just keep plugging along and sort it all out.

Ken

superdadsc
03-26-2009, 09:08 AM
Dave I know a little of what you are talking about. My first rebuild on my 95 got me to 270rwhp. I thought 300 would be about right. Boost was falling off real bad and realized that with all my reading on these cars that I overlooked getting a different size belt for when I went w/ the 10% JSP.

My original goal was 350 rwhp. My plan was to get her to 300rwhp w/ the SC and add the remote system and pick up another 75. We will see what happens next time.

Next time I am going back and forth between a TVS 1900 or a Remote turbo w/o a sc. I fell that both will get me to my original goal of 350-375 rwhp


Stephen

aplvlydrtybird
03-26-2009, 10:09 AM
looking good Dave, cant wait to see the results. This is what is up next for me as well as soon as funds are available, so I'm excited to see how it turns out.

nickleman60
03-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Yeah, that motor looks and sounds bad azz, good luck on the results.

David Neibert
03-26-2009, 01:30 PM
Engine looks great Dave. Dying to see how the cast cranks holds up.

I guess Dave #2 would better answer exactly what the rocker setup is. I have the Harland Sharp adjustable bolt down rockers (they make 1.73 and 1.8's) that have a sim means of adjustment as the ones on your engine. What looks wildly different is the actual pedastal that they rest on. Were these heads drilled for studs originally or is that just some sort of special peice. I'll probbaly be ok with such a small lift cam but that looks beefier then what I have.

I kinda wish you still were using the same heads and cam though to see just how much a difference the extra cubes make. I do have a feeling however youll be making more hp and a bit more torque then expected... unless the cam choice doesnt work out as planned. I dont think an extra 45rwt would be abnormal at all at this point
Again good luck!

Damon,

The pedestal support is much bigger than traditional pedestal mounted rockers, and that's probably because of the space needed for the much larger diameter bolt that is used to secure the rocker to the head. Rocker shaft and bearings are also much larger than other rockers typically used on an SC motor. I believe these "mini shaft" style rockers are being used with success on circle track race motors that have canted valve heads. I don't know enough about them to comment further.

I thought my old motor had greater resale value when kept in the existing combo that's already been proven to produce very good power with the proper supporting mods. My old heads and intake manifold were somewhat unique because of the greatly oversized intake runners and heavily modded manifold to match. On paper the new CNC ported big valve heads are very close to being the equal of what I had. The big questions in my mind are if the heads and intake manifold will flow well enough to take full advantage of the larger displacement, and if the 1.7 AR can keep up.

The main reason for going with the larger cam and higher ratio rockers, was to accommodate the increased displacement. Given my past problems with the valve train, the added strength of these rockers is very comforting for those times when I accidentally zing the motor to 6800 and bounce of the rev limiter a couple times before letting off.

As always, I'll share the results (good or bad) as soon as I know what they are.

David

THE BIRDMAN
03-26-2009, 05:59 PM
Dave that motor looks great and I hope it makes a ton more power than you expect. I've got a question though where did you get those CNC ported heads at? Is Dave D doing them now? Also if you don't mind do you have the flow #'s and how much they ran you to buy. I'm curious because I tryed to get some people together to have Jason at CNC to do us up a program to do our heads and someone said they didn't think it would be possible on our heads due to core shift etc.Thanks


Jay

92bird
03-26-2009, 09:45 PM
Best luck David!! Hope it all works better than expected!

Jeramie

seawalkersee
03-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Correct...but only the portion sticking out of the block is cut.

David

What does this mean? I thought I posted it, but am not sure where it went. None the less, can someone shoot me a link on this? You have a pic of what it is? I looked at the shortblock and can not see what we are talking about.

SWS

David Neibert
03-26-2009, 11:26 PM
Dave that motor looks great and I hope it makes a ton more power than you expect. I've got a question though where did you get those CNC ported heads at? Is Dave D doing them now? Also if you don't mind do you have the flow #'s and how much they ran you to buy. I'm curious because I tryed to get some people together to have Jason at CNC to do us up a program to do our heads and someone said they didn't think it would be possible on our heads due to core shift etc.Thanks


Jay

Jay,

I got the heads from Dave Dalke as part of the engine package. Don't remember the exact flow numbers or at what lift max flow is reached but, they are something like 235 Intake/195 Exhaust. Yes...from what I'm told the CNC porting of these heads has proven to be very difficult because of the lack of material to work with and variations core to core.

You will need to contact Dave for the rest of the info.

Dalke, David
E-mail Address(es):
mdkracing@alltel.net

David

frdlvr30
03-26-2009, 11:27 PM
What does this mean? I thought I posted it, but am not sure where it went. None the less, can someone shoot me a link on this? You have a pic of what it is? I looked at the shortblock and can not see what we are talking about.

SWS

Simply means they cut the dowels on the top sides. The portion that is in the heads, not the block

frdlvr30
03-26-2009, 11:32 PM
Let me ask a dumb question though David. How does the upgraded roller rockers you have here change the Geometry of the valve actuation? Is it due to the fact that it is bolt down instead of stud mount? Or is it in the actual actuation of the rocker itself? If you know the answer that is...

David Neibert
03-26-2009, 11:56 PM
What does this mean? I thought I posted it, but am not sure where it went. None the less, can someone shoot me a link on this? You have a pic of what it is? I looked at the shortblock and can not see what we are talking about.

SWS

Chris,

The head alignment dowels in the picture I posted on the first page of this thread were not cut yet. The portion of the dowel that fits into the block remains in tact and round, on the portion of the dowel that goes up into the head is where the cut is made. Half of the diameter of the portion that goes into the head is removed with the cut off portion facing towards the center of the motor.

See attached sketch...portion with arrows pointing towards them is what was removed.

David

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 12:06 AM
Let me ask a dumb question though David. How does the upgraded roller rockers you have here change the Geometry of the valve actuation? Is it due to the fact that it is bolt down instead of stud mount? Or is it in the actual actuation of the rocker itself? If you know the answer that is...

It's just better than what I had before. Instead of the roller sweeping across the middle half of the valve tip (give or take a little). These are set up to where they pretty much stay in the middle of the valve stem the entire valve stroke. I assume it's because of the geometry of the rocker.

David

XxSlowpokexX
03-27-2009, 12:21 AM
Dave,

The rocker setup definitely looks nice and beefy. I assume being many of us have used what amounts to cleveland rocker arms they most likely dont have the correct geometry. A 3.8 specific rocker such as yours takes care of that. The ones I have do the same but they are nowhere near as strong looking at these. They are merely adjustable pedastal mounts.

Any plans on getting ahold of a 2.0 AR?
Damon

KMT
03-27-2009, 12:34 AM
Half of the diameter of the portion that goes into the head is removed with the cut off portion facing towards the center of the motor.

Like this?

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Dave,

The rocker setup definitely looks nice and beefy. I assume being many of us have used what amounts to cleveland rocker arms they most likely dont have the correct geometry. A 3.8 specific rocker such as yours takes care of that. The ones I have do the same but they are nowhere near as strong looking at these. They are merely adjustable pedastal mounts.

Any plans on getting ahold of a 2.0 AR?
Damon

Damon,

I don't know what these rockers intended application are, but they do seem better than the cleveland geometry. BTW, I was using Oldsmobile rockers on my old motor. Chris Wise used them when he built the motor because he thought the geometry was better than the cleveland stuff.

If the 1.7 proves to be too small to reach my goals, I will be looking to upgrade to something a little larger. Most likely a 2.0 AR but I'd really like one of Mike Tucks billet manifolds with a liquid IC core and the 2.3 whipple. Not something I'm planning to do anytime soon, but very possible in the future.

David

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 12:39 AM
Like this?

Yes....like that.

XxSlowpokexX
03-27-2009, 12:44 AM
I remember when finding FORD roller rockers were a problem and I used pontiac ones and well as sbc ones.....I also recall the chevy ones not quite being the ticket as I had a few mishaps here and there.

Just glad there are options out there now especially for a 3.8 to take care of these isues

frdlvr30
03-27-2009, 01:56 AM
Last one, Does it make you nervous putting a long block in a car with a 6,000+ paint job?

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Last one, Does it make you nervous putting a long block in a car with a 6,000+ paint job?

I got over most of my fear of damaging the paint when removing the motor. I removed the hood, have fender covers on both sides and several large towells are covering the front of the car. Getting grease on the paint is actually a bigger concern than an accidental scratch. But just as a precaution, I'll be removing all the ladders from the garage :p

Got nearly all the loose end parts, gaskets, sealers and fluids needed to complete the engine install rounded up yesterday. I'm also adding a manual oil pressure gauge. It looks like I'll have plenty of help with Chris, Kurt and Seth all planning to be there Sunday.

David

PS: Anyone know where I can find a 1/16" NPT plug so I can fill the hole from where the nitrous nozzel was installed ?

XR7 Dave
03-27-2009, 10:47 AM
Anyone know where I can find a 1/16" NPT plug so I can fill the hole from where the nitrous nozzel was installed ?

Dunno about that but you could easily drill it out and put in a 1/8" plug. Those are easy to find.

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 10:52 AM
Dunno about that but you could easily drill it out and put in a 1/8" plug. Those are easy to find.

That actually a pretty good idea. I even thought about welding it up, but didn't want to screw up the chrome.

David

seawalkersee
03-27-2009, 10:58 AM
So...how does cutting the dowels help? It allows the head to move/expand against the block and or move sans crack?

SWS

David Neibert
03-27-2009, 11:21 AM
So...how does cutting the dowels help? It allows the head to move/expand against the block and or move sans crack?

SWS

Chris,

The theory behind cutting the allingment dowels is to allow the heads a little room for expansion when the head gets hot. Since the heads are aluminum and the block is cast iron, they expand and contract at differnt rates causing a small amount of shearing action between the block and head surfaces.

It's not unusual to see dowels that are bent from the head pressing very hard against them. The thinking is that it's better to let the head move a little than to trap it and cause the head to bow slightly and lift off the deck. When the heads and block cool back down and start contracting the remaining portion of the dowel is supposed to re-center the head and the gasket. If the heads had a thicker deck it probably wouldn't be an issue.


David

THE BIRDMAN
03-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Jay,

I got the heads from Dave Dalke as part of the engine package. Don't remember the exact flow numbers or at what lift max flow is reached but, they are something like 235 Intake/195 Exhaust. Yes...from what I'm told the CNC porting of these heads has proven to be very difficult because of the lack of material to work with and variations core to core.

You will need to contact Dave for the rest of the info.

Dalke, David
E-mail Address(es):
mdkracing@alltel.net

David




Thanks Dave. So it was an issue I thought Dave D said he wasn't sure if it could be done when I was talking about it so I guess once again he was right lol. I'll get up with him for the rest of the info. Do you know what valve sizes you guys ended up using?Thanks


Jay

seawalkersee
03-28-2009, 03:58 PM
So, what about the gasket material? Is this done only with the MLS style or if you used the graphite, should you have both the block and head polished to allow that to work?

SWS

David Neibert
03-29-2009, 09:41 AM
So, what about the gasket material? Is this done only with the MLS style or if you used the graphite, should you have both the block and head polished to allow that to work?

SWS

Chris,

I don't know about the graphite gaskets...I'm using the coated MLS gaskets with a very smooth surface on the heads and the block.

David

frdlvr30
03-29-2009, 11:26 AM
Chris,

I don't know about the graphite gaskets...I'm using the coated MLS gaskets with a very smooth surface on the heads and the block.

David

No gasket material on the graphite head gaskets...

Black89XR7
03-29-2009, 11:51 AM
Motor looks great!:D I can't wait to hear the dyno results and the track results. Are you going to be bringing it to the may meet this year?

superdadsc
03-29-2009, 12:52 PM
Good luck today! Hope all goes well and safe!:D

Stephen

David Neibert
03-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped it would, but we got the motor into the car today. Bunch of little stuff slowed us down, like not being able to find the oil pressure sensor, breaking the knock sensor off into it mounting bolt, loosing a couple acessory mount bracket bolts, getting transmission fluid all over the place when the tranny dipstick tube was pulled out for resealing ect..ect...

We accomplished the main things I wanted to get done and a few extras. Got the motor all bolted up to the transmission and TQ converter, long tube headers, sarter, main accesory brackets, power steering, alt and bunch of coolant lines. If all goes to plan, it should be running by next weekend.

Big thanks to Chris Wise, Kurt Kreisz and Seth for coming over to help me...I needed it. After having the motor out for 6 months, it's difficult to remember what bolts go where.

Here's some pics of what we got in and what else still needs to be installed.

David

neverfastenough
03-29-2009, 11:26 PM
Oh I've been there with the tranny dip stick when swapping engines, man does that suck. Ugh I hate tranny fluid. Sounds like your doing work David, keep it up.

superdadsc
03-29-2009, 11:31 PM
I bet this week will go by SLOWLY!:D

Stephen

NEEDaSCbad
03-29-2009, 11:57 PM
Your welcome Dave. I'm glad I could help even if it wasn't much. Hopefully I'll be able to help you with it more. It was good meeting Chris and Kurt as well.

-Seth

frdlvr30
03-30-2009, 02:23 AM
What did you ever do about the leaking billet transmission pan? Or was that the Turbo car? Speaking of which, where is the Turbo car? Hopefully not buried under all that stuff....Yeah, pulling the dipstick with a full pan, makes for a mess. Try standing under one, lining it back up with the engine, and knocking the Dstick tube out and getting your hair and eyes full. That will really make your day.

nickleman60
03-30-2009, 06:29 AM
After having the motor out for 6 months, it's difficult to remember what bolts go where.



David

I thought I had bagged all the bolts up and then still couldn't find a dozen or so, luckily I have a ton of "extra" bolts in buckets. And you're right, it's easy to forget where eveything goes.......:rolleyes:

90blkbrd
03-30-2009, 07:39 AM
Didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped it would, but we got the motor into the car today.

I think this would be the first time you have posted pictures of a engine project and I don't see the traditional bud light can. :D

You'll get there, you always do.

Ken Seegers
03-30-2009, 08:04 AM
Didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped it would, but we got the motor into the car today. Bunch of little stuff slowed us down, like not being able to find the oil pressure sensor, breaking the knock sensor off into it mounting bolt, loosing a couple acessory mount bracket bolts, getting transmission fluid all over the place when the tranny dipstick tube was pulled out for resealing ect..ect...

We accomplished the main things I wanted to get done and a few extras. Got the motor all bolted up to the transmission and TQ converter, long tube headers, sarter, main accesory brackets, power steering, alt and bunch of coolant lines. If all goes to plan, it should be running by next weekend.

Big thanks to Chris Wise, Kurt Kreisz and Seth for coming over to help me...I needed it. After having the motor out for 6 months, it's difficult to remember what bolts go where.

Here's some pics of what we got in and what else still needs to be installed.

David

David,
I feel you on the bolt thing. I have just the supercharger, intercooler and other minor things to install. I hope to have everything completed by the end of the week. I have to order the exhaust and tags.

Ken

Wzenheimer
03-30-2009, 09:01 AM
David,

Sorry I didnt stay any longer, but it sounds like you got a bunch of other stuff done after I left. Give me a call about tuesday evening, I'm pretty sure thats not a problem.

Chris

fastsc92
03-30-2009, 09:11 AM
Dave, looking good. I did however see a problem in ALL of your pics..... I have yet to see a can of Bud Light... What gives?:p

XxSlowpokexX
03-30-2009, 09:14 AM
Just a note on what Chris (seawalker)said. I have used graphite gaskets in the past and although they do seal well they just do not hold up well to any sort of head lift or detonation. I tried them on one of my blown SBF projects that couldnt keep a headgasket and they almost blew immediately whereas a typical felpro blue would take at least a few months of abuse before calling it a day.

And Dave,

I not only have buckets of bolts..I have like a few spare cars in peices. I dont even like to step foot in my garage. All my works is done elsewhere as it's a disaster area. (currently in the provess of cleaning house though!)\

Good luck with the rest of the build...

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 11:00 AM
What did you ever do about the leaking billet transmission pan? Or was that the Turbo car? Speaking of which, where is the Turbo car? Hopefully not buried under all that stuff....Yeah, pulling the dipstick with a full pan, makes for a mess. Try standing under one, lining it back up with the engine, and knocking the Dstick tube out and getting your hair and eyes full. That will really make your day.

That was on the turbo car..the same pan on this car doesn't seem to leak. But it was leaking a little around the dipstick tube, so that's why we resealed it.

Turbo car is in the other portion of the garage that's behind the wall where the intercooler is sitting. It only had a two car garage when we bought the house and later we added the 3rd bay that I do all the work in. Turbo car is running good and other than repairing an ehaust leak from where a hanger bracket broke loose, it's race ready.

David

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Dave, looking good. I did however see a problem in ALL of your pics..... I have yet to see a can of Bud Light... What gives?:p

It was too cold to drink beer. Weather went from high 60s to low 30s pretty much over night. We also got about 3 or 4 inches of snow Saturday night so I had to plug in a couple heaters just to keep it warm enough to work without a coat.

David

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
David,

Sorry I didnt stay any longer, but it sounds like you got a bunch of other stuff done after I left. Give me a call about tuesday evening, I'm pretty sure thats not a problem.

Chris

Chris,

No problem, you did plenty. Tuesday works good for me...I'll probably take a 1/2 day off work to get as much done as possible before it gets dark.

David

PS: I need a couple of those big bolts that hold on the passenger side acessory bracket...got any in your spare parts assortment you can bring Tuesday?

Wzenheimer
03-30-2009, 11:35 AM
Chris,

No problem, you did plenty. Tuesday works good for me...I'll probably take a 1/2 day off work to get as much done as possible before it gets dark.

David

PS: I need a couple of those big bolts that hold on the passenger side acessory bracket...got any in your spare parts assortment you can bring Tuesday?


I'll look and see.

Chris

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 11:37 AM
I'll look and see.

Chris

Thought you might have some, since your not using the passenger accesory bracket since adding the turbo.

David

Toms-SC
03-30-2009, 11:49 AM
Lord paint those access. brackets to match the block David!

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Lord paint those access. brackets to match the block David!

I was waiting for someone to mention that..:o

I thought about painting them, but that would require removal of the alternator and power steering pump from the driver's side bracket...can't get the PS pulley off so it wasn't happening.

When I'm done I'll take it to a car wash.

David

Mike8675309
03-30-2009, 09:12 PM
I was waiting for someone to mention that..:o

I thought about painting them, but that would require removal of the alternator and power steering pump from the driver's side bracket...can't get the PS pulley off so it wasn't happening.

When I'm done I'll take it to a car wash.

David

Very careful application of a mapp gas torch got my power steering pulley got it to start working it's way off.

ricardoa1
03-30-2009, 09:35 PM
Very careful application of a mapp gas torch got my power steering pulley got it to start working it's way off.

X2 on the heat.

old_coot
03-30-2009, 11:05 PM
Shoot Advance or Autozone will loan you the tool to do it right---I wouldn't take the chance of screwing up the seal with heat.................Dan

ricardoa1
03-30-2009, 11:18 PM
Shoot Advance or Autozone will loan you the tool to do it right---I wouldn't take the chance of screwing up the seal with heat.................Dan

No you still need the tool. if its frozen on and the tool is not working you need heat to help it out and get it off.

David Neibert
03-30-2009, 11:52 PM
Shoot Advance or Autozone will loan you the tool to do it right---I wouldn't take the chance of screwing up the seal with heat.................Dan

Dan,

I've got the pulley removal tool...it just won't budge. When installing the AR we needed to remove the stamped steel bracket that goes between the power steering pump and the water pump. To do that the pulley needs to come off...after messing with it for half an hour with no progress, we got out the cutting wheel and sawed the bracket off and left the pulley alone. In all the years I've had this car I've never once had to remove the pulley. I just unbolt the entire accessory bracket and lay it to the side with the alternator and all the hoses still attached.

If I ever need to replace the pump...I'll get that stupid pulley off. Until then it's not going anywhere.

David

Mike8675309
03-31-2009, 12:45 PM
Shoot Advance or Autozone will loan you the tool to do it right---I wouldn't take the chance of screwing up the seal with heat.................Dan

You might think so. But even with the correct tool... sometimes the pulley won't come off.

Mine was stuck on good enough that using the proper tool, the tool itself started to slip off the end of the power steering pulley arbor. The edges of that lip were starting to round off and migrate the metal forward.

Yeah.. stuck on real good. It didn't take much heat. It's a small amount of steel. I hit it with some heat for 10 count, put the tool on, and it started coming off right away. then it got tough again. Another 10 count of heat and it came the rest of the way off. Found corrosion inside the bore. Cleaned it and the shaft up with fine emery cloth and put anti-seize when I put it back on. Figured if the seal was damaged, I would deal with that, as either way, the pulley was coming off.

The main reason why I wanted the pulley off was so that if I ever have a failure on the road where the pulley needs to come off, I don't want that to be the time when I figure out how to get it off.

old_coot
03-31-2009, 02:54 PM
There's always one that doesn't work right--rust can kill anything but so far I haven't had an issue since we got the right tool but then again I've only done five or six..................Dan

aplvlydrtybird
03-31-2009, 06:15 PM
Dave, what length did you go with on the connecting rods???

David Neibert
03-31-2009, 11:39 PM
Dave, what length did you go with on the connecting rods???

Scat 6.125"

aplvlydrtybird
04-01-2009, 08:20 AM
Nice, cant wait to see this thing in action!

This is exactly what i would like to do in the future

David Neibert
04-04-2009, 10:20 PM
I've been out of town for most of the week, but was able to get more work done today. I got everything under the car taken care of first, like bolting the headers to the rest of the exhaust, installing new o2 sensors, reattaching the steering shaft ect..ect..

Then I spent several hours just messing with a series of severe leaks on the passenger side fuel rail. Finally solved the problem by putting an extra oring in the head to push the injectors up into the rail tighter (billet rails). I assume the install height is slightly differnt on this motor than my old one. Getting the blower on and bolted down was also a real treat...geez this thing fits tight.

All the hard stuff is over now. Just need to install the, reverse tensioner (AC delete), radiator, intercooler, manual oil gauge, wipers, hood and new chip...then it's ready to start. Here's some pics of how it looks today.


David

David Neibert
04-04-2009, 10:22 PM
More pictures

Ira R.
04-05-2009, 12:20 AM
I love how clean the headers and the exhaust fit on under there. That's a great job David.

Ira

NEEDaSCbad
04-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Looks like you got a new plastic cowl trim piece?

CMac89
04-05-2009, 01:19 AM
It looks great, David.

When do you plan on firing it up?

David Neibert
04-05-2009, 08:32 AM
Looks like you got a new plastic cowl trim piece?

Yes I did...lucky for me Rod came through again.

David

David Neibert
04-05-2009, 08:48 AM
It looks great, David.

When do you plan on firing it up?

Casey,

Unless I run into a major snag, I'll be firing it up today :D

Once I get it running and check it for leaks and get the fluids topped off, I'll need to hook it up to the scanner to verify the tune is close enough for some break in miles and go from there. Looks like the weather is going to turn pretty nasty for the next few days, so I doubt it comes out of the garage until sometime late next week.

The initial start up is the part that always makes me nervous, but I've spent a lot of time making sure everything is properly tightened, sealed up good and I either clamped or zip tied all the hoses, so there shouldn't be any problems.

David

Kurt K
04-05-2009, 08:49 AM
Yes I did...lucky for me Rod came through again.

DavidGlad I thought of it :rolleyes::D:D

David Neibert
04-05-2009, 09:02 AM
I love how clean the headers and the exhaust fit on under there. That's a great job David.

Ira

Ira,

I like the new exhaust too, but compared to the medium length these long tube headers are a real pain in the azz and have very little clearance from stuff around the sides of the motor. If doing it again, I would use the medium length headers with v-band connections.

Instead of a regular gasket and RTV I'm trying a set of reuseable soft aluminum gaskets on the collectors. I had to redrill the gasket bolt holes a size larger for clearance, and the added thickness of the gasket didn't allow enough bolt length to use a lockwasher, so I'll be keeping my eye on them to make sure they don't come loose.

David

David Neibert
04-05-2009, 09:06 AM
Glad I thought of it :rolleyes::D:D

Yeah I'm glad you mentioned it. I thought it was all one big part that required removal of the wiper motor stuff, so I wouldn't have changed it.

David

mi pajaro
04-05-2009, 11:04 AM
Casey,

Unless I run into a major snag, I'll be firing it up today :D

David

Good luck, there is nothing like the nervous excitement of firing a new motor up for the first time. :D

Congrats on the progress.

superdadsc
04-05-2009, 12:02 PM
Looking awesome Dave!:D

Stephen

Mike8675309
04-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Looks good. One thought I had from the header pictures was the o/2 sensor placement. If a daily driven car, I would consider making a rock shield that can bolt up on the frame rail on that aide that would protect the sensor from getting hit with rocks or other debris from the road.

David Neibert
04-05-2009, 11:36 PM
Fired it up earlier this evening, ran real rough for a while and after about a min of playing with the throttle it settled into a fairly smooth idle. Shut it off about 30 seconds later and imediantely noticed my washer fluid tank (boost juice) went from half full before starting to nearly empty :eek::eek:

Either the new Snow controller whacked out or the anti siphion solenoid stuck open. Increased the spray start set point fron 2.5 to 3.5 volts and when I restarted the car it wasn't spraying. Ran a lot smoother when it stopped drowning the motor :rolleyes:

It doesn't seem to have hurt anything but I think I'll change the oil just to be on the safe side. Other than that the only problems were a small coolant leak near the back of the block that is probably a weeping freeze plug and I found a rather large oil leak at the manual oil pressure gauge, I just installed under the hood. Apparently the fitting I got to adapt from a ferrel to AN connection didn't seal too well. It has about 90-95 psi oil pressure at cold start, and about 10 inches of vacuum at 1000 rpm idle in park.

Big thanks to Kurt Kreisz for coming over to help me install the hood and a few other loose ends. Here are some pictures of how it looks now.

David

rzibilske77
04-06-2009, 12:03 AM
thats one work of art there and im sure it will perform as well too..cant wait:)

Kurt K
04-06-2009, 07:32 AM
I'm glad I was able to sneak away for a couple of hours and help. I'm also glad Kathy was able to assist with the hood--3 people always works better when installing a hood.

Now you just have to wait for the weather to warm up again.

SCme94
04-06-2009, 07:47 AM
Looks good again :) Glad to see it back on the list of living SC's.

Ken Seegers
04-06-2009, 09:46 AM
David,
I glad your car is running. Now it is time to wake up the neighbors! :D

Ken

aplvlydrtybird
04-06-2009, 10:00 AM
awesome looking good Dave

Ira R.
04-06-2009, 10:07 AM
..... It has about 90-95 psi oil pressure at cold start, and about 10 inches of vacuum at 1000 rpm idle in park.

David

Looking good. Those numbers are about par for this course. About the same as mine. Which oil you breaking in with?

Ira

David Neibert
04-06-2009, 11:22 AM
Looking good. Those numbers are about par for this course. About the same as mine. Which oil you breaking in with?

Ira

Ira,

After Dave assembled the motor he added about a gallon of oil that I think was 10w30 to prime/test the oil pump and check the pressure and circulation. Yesterday I added a couple quarts of Valvoline 10w40 conventional oil to top it off before starting. Engine temp was probably around 60 degrees when I first started it.

David

mywhite89
04-06-2009, 12:07 PM
looks really nice. Im interested to see how it performs. Let us know what you find as a culprit of the snow kit. Sounds like the solenoid stuck open.

Nettlesd
04-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Woo Hoo! TBU meet here we come. Everything looks fantastic.

CMac89
04-06-2009, 02:05 PM
That's abut 10rwhp worth of oil pressure.:)

David Neibert
04-06-2009, 02:12 PM
looks really nice. Im interested to see how it performs. Let us know what you find as a culprit of the snow kit. Sounds like the solenoid stuck open.

I'm pretty sure it was a stuck solenoid and the vacuum from the motor pulled the fluid from the tank. I had my wife do the initial start up of the motor, so I could keep an eye on what was going on under the hood. She doesn't recall seeing the bright green LED on the dash that would have been on if the pump and anti siphion solenoid were getting power, but she wasn't looking for it either.

David

David Neibert
04-06-2009, 02:16 PM
That's abut 10rwhp worth of oil pressure.:)

Really.....I wonder how much HP the 20W50 I usually run consumes. BTW, what is the pressure relief setting on an SC oil pump ?

David

Toms-SC
04-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Can you run synthetic if you so choose?

CMac89
04-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Just by going from 20W-50 to 5W-30 is worth 15 crank HP. Dropping oil pressure about 10psi is another 5-8 crank HP. Race oils are worth a bit more.

I'm not sure on the exact number that it relieves.

I have an oil pressure chart that I made, which tells you the required oil pressure at every RPM via the main journal size and stroke. The SC only needs about 50psi at 7,000 RPM.

The increase in oil pressure doesn't necessarily mean that more oil is getting to the main/rod journals. If you change viscosities by a decent amount, that extra recorded oil pressure is nothing other than backpressure from a thicker oil. This is why you must match oil weight to the bearing clearances in order to provide the best lubrication, as well as oil flow.

Just food for thought!

XR7 Dave
04-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Really.....I wonder how much HP the 20W50 I usually run consumes. BTW, what is the pressure relief setting on an SC oil pump ?

David

The oil I put in was 15w40. 90psi is normal for a cold start. It will settle in to 70psi hot cruise and should end up around 40psi hot idle. You won't see those numbers though until you actually drive the car enough to get the oil hot.

Ira R.
04-06-2009, 03:11 PM
The oil I put in was 15w40. 90psi is normal for a cold start. It will settle in to 70psi hot cruise and should end up around 40psi hot idle. You won't see those numbers though until you actually drive the car enough to get the oil hot.

It might take a few hundred miles also. Mine has settled in to pretty much to those same numbers now, although I do see 35psi at hot idle on occasion. That's with the 10-40 over the winter. Right now I can't remember which oil I ran last summer :o

Ira

kenewagner
04-06-2009, 08:16 PM
It might take a few hundred miles also. Mine has settled in to pretty much to those same numbers now, although I do see 35psi at hot idle on occasion. That's with the 10-40 over the winter. Right now I can't remember which oil I ran last summer :o

Ira

I think Daves going to take your HP crown away from you this year:D

Ken

Ira R.
04-06-2009, 10:05 PM
I think Daves going to take your HP crown away from you this year:D

Ken

I have never doubted that. The only question is by how much.

Ira

XR7 Dave
04-06-2009, 11:24 PM
I have never doubted that. The only question is by how much.

Ira

That's a little bit of a bold statement. I do not expect his motor to make more power than yours and being I built both of them, if anyone should have confidence in things it should be me.

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 12:02 AM
Ira,

I don't expect it to make more power than yours either...not at the wheels anyway ;)

Fixed my oil leak this evening and now I'm ready to drive it couple miles to see if any other problems show up. If all goes well, I'll hook up the scanner and start the break in procedure that Dave has suggested.

So far the most apparent issue with the tune is being extremly rich at cold starts causing some smoke and stumbling for a few seconds. I've had that same issue in the past and Dave was able to correct it by adjusting the tune, so I'm not really concerned about it.

David

XxSlowpokexX
04-07-2009, 12:35 AM
Lookin good lookin good. I would think youde have at least the same an dthen the extra cubes no?

kenewagner
04-07-2009, 08:55 AM
That's a little bit of a bold statement. I do not expect his motor to make more power than yours and being I built both of them, if anyone should have confidence in things it should be me.

I'll ask, since just about everyone on the boards want to know. Why, with more cubes, a more aggressive cam, would dave fall short of Ira. What is the secret formula for Ira's car. Inquiring minds want to know;)

Ken

XR7 Dave
04-07-2009, 10:33 AM
I'll ask, since just about everyone on the boards want to know. Why, with more cubes, a more aggressive cam, would dave fall short of Ira. What is the secret formula for Ira's car. Inquiring minds want to know;)

Ken

Apparently no one is paying attention to the fact that Ira has a 5spd and David has an auto with a non-locking converter..... that and the blower is the limiting factor on how much air the motor can process, and since they both have the same blower....

neverfastenough
04-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Sounds like its about time he swaps in a 5spd.:D

90blkbrd
04-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Sounds like its about time he swaps in a 5spd.:D

naw. just get a bigger blower. :D

91supacoop
04-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Just by going from 20W-50 to 5W-30 is worth 15 crank HP. Dropping oil pressure about 10psi is another 5-8 crank HP. Race oils are worth a bit more.

See...this is why I just don't even use oil, I can squeeze that much more HP out of the engine by doing away with the associated losses.

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 11:33 AM
Apparently no one is paying attention to the fact that Ira has a 5spd and David has an auto with a non-locking converter..... that and the blower is the limiting factor on how much air the motor can process, and since they both have the same blower....

I've still got that 3" blower pulley that was good for another 2.5-3.0 psi on my old motor :cool:

David

XR7 Dave
04-07-2009, 11:37 AM
The bearings in David's old motor look ok for what they've been through, but the pins were not receiving enough oil and as a result the bushings were hammered out of most of the rods. It's hard to tell now but it may be that they did not have enough clearance originally.

ricardoa1
04-07-2009, 11:38 AM
MMM... I ran 20W50 at last years shootout. But I think the break in oil at the shootout before that was probably much lighter.
Maybe thats where my ponies went :rolleyes:

I think I will go thinner this time around. Whats recomended again?

10w40?

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Sounds like its about time he swaps in a 5spd.:D

Other than being able to apply max power in high gear for running very high speeds and pulling higher dyno numbers, I don't see any advantage to having a manual transmission in this car. I do however, see several dissadvantges.

David

ScrapSC
04-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Just think about shifting those gears and how good that would feel there Neibert! LOL

I swapped out my 5-speed for the auto a couple years ago. Havent regretted it either.

Ira R.
04-07-2009, 01:02 PM
That's a little bit of a bold statement. I do not expect his motor to make more power than yours and being I built both of them, if anyone should have confidence in things it should be me.

[shrug] Say what you will, that is just how I feel. When David decides to do something he usually finds a way. I also think Ricardo will be showing some very strong numbers this year but my gut tells me he will fall just short (sorry Rico). But I could be wrong. And I never rule anyone out. I am sure there is more then one car out there somewhere that we (okay I) don't know about yet with a new set of heads and a blower being built as we speak. At least I hope so or it means that we have stopped experimenting or making progress. Now that would be a shame.

But that's all it is. Just my gut. Of course, I also think that my engine has more power in it too so what do I know........

I hadn't figured on even putting my car on the dyno this year actually. Guess we'll see what happens between now and October.

Ira

Ira R.
04-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Other than being able to apply max power in high gear for running very high speeds and pulling higher dyno numbers, I don't see any advantage to having a manual transmission in this car. I do however, see several dissadvantges.

David
For the number of times I run the car at the track I still enjoy those few advantages more then the disadvantages annoy me. Now I am sure at some point that will change. Or perhaps when my left knee finally gives out on me
I won't have a choice anymore. But for now, viva le advantages! :D

And I must say that it does my he-man ego good to still be able to drive the pi$$ out of it occasionally too ;) :p But this too shall pass.......

Ira

ricardoa1
04-07-2009, 01:22 PM
For the number of times I run the car at the track I still enjoy those few advantages more then the disadvantages annoy me. Now I am sure at some point that will change. Or perhaps when my left knee finally gives out on me
I won't have a choice anymore. But for now, viva le advantages! :D

And I must say that it does my he-man ego good to still be able to drive the pi$$ out of it occasionally too ;) :p But this too shall pass.......

Ira

:rolleyes:

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 01:30 PM
[shrug] Say what you will, that is just how I feel. When David decides to do something he usually finds a way. I also think Ricardo will be showing some very strong numbers this year but my gut tells me he will fall just short (sorry Rico). But I could be wrong. And I never rule anyone out. I am sure there is more then one car out there somewhere that we (okay I) don't know about yet with a new set of heads and a blower being built as we speak. At least I hope so or it means that we have stopped experimenting or making progress. Now that would be a shame.

But that's all it is. Just my gut. Of course, I also think that my engine has more power in it too so what do I know........

I hadn't figured on even putting my car on the dyno this year actually. Guess we'll see what happens between now and October.

Ira

Ira,

If Ricardo actually uses that nitrous system I see in the pics he posted, his car will make more power than either of us.

David

ricardoa1
04-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Ira,

If Ricardo actually uses that nitrous system I see in the pics he posted, his car will make more power than either of us.

David


But Ira does not count nitrous as a legit mod. :p

Ira R.
04-07-2009, 03:05 PM
But Ira does not count nitrous as a legit mod. :p

It doesn't matter what I count. The rules of the competition at the Shoot Out are the rules and those rules say nitrous counts. And you turned some great torque numbers last year with it. And yes, if you get that system tuned I agree with David that you will make us all look silly.

And not legit isn't the way I would describe it. I never said it isn't legit. I said it's a chemical enhancement and not a mechanical one. That's just different strokes for different folks. But don't for a minute think that I would disregard David's 10 seconds runs just because he used nitrous. That would be ridiculous.

You know it's too early in the year for this kind of smack talk....... I'm not up for this yet.

Ira

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 03:31 PM
It doesn't matter what I count. The rules of the competition at the Shoot Out are the rules and those rules say nitrous counts. And you turned some great torque numbers last year with it. And yes, if you get that system tuned I agree with David that you will make us all look silly.

And not legit isn't the way I would describe it. I never said it isn't legit. I said it's a chemical enhancement and not a mechanical one. That's just different strokes for different folks. But don't for a minute think that I would disregard David's 10 seconds runs just because he used nitrous. That would be ridiculous.

You know it's too early in the year for this kind of smack talk....... I'm not up for this yet.

Ira

Ira,

Even though the Shootout dyno competition rules allowed it, I've never used the nitrous. Mainly because I didn't think it gave a true picture of what kind of power the car normally makes, and also because I didn't want to waste a pull if the system malfunctioned.

But I did use it on the track, so I could try to keep Kevin in sight. It almost always ran slower with the nitrous because of system malfunctions or smoking the tires, so I'm not really going to miss having it on my car.

David

ricardoa1
04-07-2009, 03:35 PM
You know it's too early in the year for this kind of smack talk....... I'm not up for this yet.

Ira


Who is smack talking? I am only responding to my name being brought up ;)

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 03:40 PM
You know it's too early in the year for this kind of smack talk....... I'm not up for this yet.

Ira

What are you talking about "too early" ? The Dayton meet is only 3 weeks away.

David

PS: If you show up Black Betty is gonna blow your doors off :D

Toms-SC
04-07-2009, 03:44 PM
This is good stuff
:popcorn

XR7 Dave
04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Other than being able to apply max power in high gear for running very high speeds and pulling higher dyno numbers, I don't see any advantage to having a manual transmission in this car. I do however, see several dissadvantges.

David
Well, that is all a matter of perspective. The only advantage I see in an automatic is being able to hold my beverage in one hand while shifting gears. It's the difference between riding in a car and driving one. Without the ability to shift gears and use the clutch to your advantage, you are riding in the car rather than driving it. But then again I kind of feel the same way about turbo's so my opinion is obviously jaded......;)

Ira R.
04-07-2009, 04:53 PM
What are you talking about "too early" ? The Dayton meet is only 3 weeks away.

David

PS: If you show up Black Betty is gonna blow your doors off :D

I look forward to it! :D

Ira

Ira R.
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Well, that is all a matter of perspective. The only advantage I see in an automatic is being able to hold my beverage in one hand while shifting gears. It's the difference between riding in a car and driving one. Without the ability to shift gears and use the clutch to your advantage, you are riding in the car rather than driving it. But then again I kind of feel the same way about turbo's so my opinion is obviously jaded......;)

What you need is the real old fashion cup holder like I have. You must remember having one of those. They also hand feed you the fries between shifts :eek: :D

Ira

Toms-SC
04-07-2009, 04:58 PM
The best modification was the $3 cup holder from a Taurus.

David Neibert
04-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Well, that is all a matter of perspective. The only advantage I see in an automatic is being able to hold my beverage in one hand while shifting gears. It's the difference between riding in a car and driving one. Without the ability to shift gears and use the clutch to your advantage, you are riding in the car rather than driving it. But then again I kind of feel the same way about turbo's so my opinion is obviously jaded......;)

Dave,

I've owned several cars in the past with manual transmissions and thought they were the cat's pajamas, but I wouldn't want one on an SC. Good point about the beverage holder, but there are other issues associated with the manual transmission. Stuff like.... wheel hop, not being able to use drag radials, greater chances of breaking halfshafts, breaking transmission output shafts, grinding gears or missing shifts. Then there is the whole burning/glazing the clutch deal if you don't apply the throttle and clutch engaugement in the proper way.

Yes I agree that you are certianly more engauged in the driving experince with a manual transmission and it does have it's advantages in some situations, but I still think any SC with more than 300 rwhp is better off with an automatic. For the average driver, the automatic is easier to drag race and much less destructive to the drivetrain. At that power level it also becomes quick enough that the driver isn't simply along for the ride. When you get stuck in a stop and go traffic jam, having an automatic is very nice.


If you want to tear azz in the twistys or do drifting, road racing, auto cross or just putt around town on a Sunday drive, I think the manual transmission would be superior.

David

XR7 Dave
04-07-2009, 08:13 PM
True David, but then there is superior fuel mileage, better cruising rpms, power you can feel AND use on the highway, never worrying about trans fluid temps, lower weight, no messy trans coolers to deal with, a fraction of the cost, simple enough that even Micah can rebuild them, no shift programming to worry about, TV cables to adjust, or governers to set or replace, AND they only take 3qts to fill.

I didn't mention engine braking, the ability to load the motor or go into boost at any rpm you want, never having to worry about the thing shifting when you don't want it to or weren't expecting it, etc. because that's all about driving preference.

Sure, if you want to drag race an automatic is easier which is why 90% of the drag racing world used automatics. But SC's aren't drag cars and SC owners aren't drag racers. That people do go to the track 2 times a year doesn't make them drag racers or their cars drag cars.

I think the same characteristics that would make a person want a manual transmission in the first place when they bought the car stock still apply at any HP level which is why I feel the effort to convince people to switch to automatic is misplaced. Someone who buys a 5spd wants to be more engaged with their car. Yes it means they'll have to learn more about driving it, but I think that is why they buy them in the first place. I don't think it is necessary to be worried about parts breakage on a 5spd. I used to drive my car all over the place to race back in the day. I drove to St Louis, beat all the automatics in town, and drove home. I did it again in Milwaukee, and I'll be doing it again when I get my car done. Ira did/does the same as do others. Yes a bunch of 5spd guys have broken parts but there is nothing to suggest that a high HP car is more prone to breaking them than a low HP one. It's all about driving technique, and it is simply easier to abuse the 5spd than it is to abuse the automatic. If you don't abuse them they don't break any more than anything else.

ricardoa1
04-07-2009, 08:33 PM
Makes me feel good about getting a parts car to swap the trans into the Anny I picked up. I dont even want to drive it without it having a 5spd.
The cars are totally different with it when it has the opposite trans.

Pablo94SC
04-07-2009, 09:55 PM
I for one loved having a 5spd in the Cougar. It was a blast to drive... fun in the twisties, great for passing and excellent on the gas, but stop and go traffic killed me and it needed a 3.08 in back instead of a 2.73.

That said, I also love having an auto in the SC. It's nice to put it in gear and forget about it when driving around town. It's also so much easier for drag racing. As for drifting, who says you can't do it in an auto? Nothing a little throttle blip at the edge of traction can't cure. :cool:

For what it's worth, I really would love to figure out a way to put a 5 or 6spd automatic with optional manual shifting in our cars. To me that would be the best of both worlds. Too bad our engines produce more than enough torque to make most of those transmissions eat themselves. :(

Kurt K
04-07-2009, 10:53 PM
...simple enough that even Micah can rebuild them.quoted for future use.


I drove to St Louis, beat all the automatics in town, and drove home.Ummm, you can't be referring to the first Shootout:rolleyes:

CMac89
04-08-2009, 12:29 AM
The five speed cars seem to break because they are set up improperly. Unlike an automatic, five speed cars don't have a converter to simultaneously slip during a launch.

People mistakenly aim to make the car dead hook, or close to it, instead of trying to create tire slip to give the drive train momentum to move the car. If you set the car up to have tire slip, you greatly soften the blow to all drivetrain parts.

This is why drag radials are brought up as an X-factor with five speed SCs. Whenever a bias ply tire wrinkles it is actually simulating a certain amount of tire spin, which softens the blunt force to the drivetrain as a whole. How much force that is applied to each component of the drivetrain is a function of gearing and rotating mass. Drag radials have a stiff sidewall, which will hardly crush at all. Whenever you have minimal tire spin, you will either instantly break something, or it will go into wheel-hop, which will eventually lead into some type of destruction.

If you know how to set anything up correctly, you can make it work well. Believe it or not, stick cars are always faster than automatics. In competitive racing classes, it's about two tenths faster. Muncie four speeds mop up TH400 and TH350s all day; Top Loaders rape C4 and C6s, in the tailshaft, all day long. This is completely from a drag racing perspective. I like the automagics, too, though.:)

David Neibert
04-08-2009, 12:52 AM
True David, but then there is superior fuel mileage, better cruising rpms, power you can feel AND use on the highway, never worrying about trans fluid temps, lower weight, no messy trans coolers to deal with, a fraction of the cost, simple enough that even Micah can rebuild them, no shift programming to worry about, TV cables to adjust, or governers to set or replace, AND they only take 3qts to fill.

I didn't mention engine braking, the ability to load the motor or go into boost at any rpm you want, never having to worry about the thing shifting when you don't want it to or weren't expecting it, etc. because that's all about driving preference.

Sure, if you want to drag race an automatic is easier which is why 90% of the drag racing world used automatics. But SC's aren't drag cars and SC owners aren't drag racers. That people do go to the track 2 times a year doesn't make them drag racers or their cars drag cars.

I think the same characteristics that would make a person want a manual transmission in the first place when they bought the car stock still apply at any HP level which is why I feel the effort to convince people to switch to automatic is misplaced. Someone who buys a 5spd wants to be more engaged with their car. Yes it means they'll have to learn more about driving it, but I think that is why they buy them in the first place. I don't think it is necessary to be worried about parts breakage on a 5spd. I used to drive my car all over the place to race back in the day. I drove to St Louis, beat all the automatics in town, and drove home. I did it again in Milwaukee, and I'll be doing it again when I get my car done. Ira did/does the same as do others. Yes a bunch of 5spd guys have broken parts but there is nothing to suggest that a high HP car is more prone to breaking them than a low HP one. It's all about driving technique, and it is simply easier to abuse the 5spd than it is to abuse the automatic. If you don't abuse them they don't break any more than anything else.

Dave,

All good points and I don't dissagree with anything your saying except the part about the power level not mattering. In all the years I've been in this club I've only seen a handful of guys who could consistently pull off good launches and and hit all the shifts on cue. For just about everyone else, the more power they had the uglier it got.

I don't want to leave anyone out, but the ones who I recall doing it well are as follows: Mark ? (aka tripod) with a Black XR7, Mike Puckett, Gary Kuhn and YOU.

David

David Neibert
04-08-2009, 01:01 AM
Oh yeah...the first round of road testing with the new motor went very well this evening. Hooking up the scanner and 30 psi boost gauge for round 2 tommorrow evening.

David

XR7 Dave
04-08-2009, 09:01 AM
Dave,
the ones who I recall doing it well are as follows: Mark ? (aka tripod) with a Black XR7, Mike Puckett, Gary Kuhn and YOU.

David

Gary was a mess until I showed him what to do. He was a quick study so it seemed like he knew what he was doing all along but that's not the case. People who are struggling need to make a date with someone who knows how to drive. Gary's car ran 13.40's with him behind the wheel and 12.70's with me behind the wheel the same day. Later on he was faster in his car than I was, and he only ever broke one axle in hundreds of low 12 second passes.

You are right about it being easier. Brian and Ira's car were similar prior to the auto swap. Now Brian's car run's 11's, but so has Ira. I have never actually ridden with or driven with Ira yet so he has done that on his own. With a little coaching I think Ira can do better yet.

Ira R.
04-08-2009, 10:56 AM
The five speed cars seem to break because they are set up improperly. Unlike an automatic, five speed cars don't have a converter to simultaneously slip during a launch.

People mistakenly aim to make the car dead hook, or close to it, instead of trying to create tire slip to give the drive train momentum to move the car. If you set the car up to have tire slip, you greatly soften the blow to all drivetrain parts.

This is why drag radials are brought up as an X-factor with five speed SCs. Whenever a bias ply tire wrinkles it is actually simulating a certain amount of tire spin, which softens the blunt force to the drivetrain as a whole. How much force that is applied to each component of the drivetrain is a function of gearing and rotating mass. Drag radials have a stiff sidewall, which will hardly crush at all. Whenever you have minimal tire spin, you will either instantly break something, or it will go into wheel-hop, which will eventually lead into some type of destruction.

If you know how to set anything up correctly, you can make it work well. Believe it or not, stick cars are always faster than automatics. In competitive racing classes, it's about two tenths faster. Muncie four speeds mop up TH400 and TH350s all day; Top Loaders rape C4 and C6s, in the tailshaft, all day long. This is completely from a drag racing perspective. I like the automagics, too, though.:)

Yea ! :eek: What he said ! :p ;) :rolleyes: :D

Ira :D

fturner
04-08-2009, 11:27 AM
Get the best of both worlds.... manual valve body in an auto :D

Problem solved :D:p:eek::):rolleyes:;):p:D

Fraser

XR7 Dave
04-08-2009, 11:31 AM
Get the best of both worlds.... manual valve body in an auto :D

Problem solved :D:p:eek::):rolleyes:;):p:D

Fraser

No. The torque converter is 1/2 the reason I don't like an auto.

thundermax
04-08-2009, 09:59 PM
I've had both manual and auto sc's, both cars were pretty much stock.
I didn't really care for the manual at all; the transmission was very notchy, besides the way it shifted it really didn't feel right with 3800lb car.
I don't know if it had upgraded rear end gear but as far as I know it was stock, the first gear was really short and I hated that. I like to have an actually usable first gear that could take me to 45mph (on the street). Plus we are limited with replacement and upgrade parts, ulike t-5s. I know that there are a few companies that make parts for these still, but again we don't have the same market as the t-5s
I just thought that the auto was much more practical choise for the car.

XxSlowpokexX
04-09-2009, 12:46 AM
All I gotta say is


, but stop and go traffic killed me and it needed a 3.08 in back instead of a 2.73.


If that clutch bothers ya..It was like non existant!


I totally agree that the fun factor with a 5 speed sc is great. But it just doesnt hold up well to a good beating with a stiff tire and a good clutch

Maybe Im spoiled but Im used to powershifting and dumping the clutch at will with no breakage (at least with teh power my SC makes) . The fact my SC will never ever have a soft sidewall tire on it however just means I need to learn how to drive differently. Softer shifts, no clutch dumping..Nature of the beast I guess

If I was drag racing an SC...No doubt in my mind it be automatic..

superdadsc
04-09-2009, 12:24 PM
To each his own! I like to shift, I have stated that before. I can see how the auto would be better, faster than a 5 spd. I quess we all need just one of each!:D What made me fall in love w/ the SC was the fact that they made them w/ a 5 spd. I whis my Mark VIII had a 6 speed!:eek:

Stephen

Dave can't wait to see how she turns out. That will be a BEAST!:D

David Neibert
04-09-2009, 12:50 PM
To each his own! I like to shift, I have stated that before. I can see how the auto would be better, faster than a 5 spd. I quess we all need just one of each!:D What made me fall in love w/ the SC was the fact that they made them w/ a 5 spd. I whis my Mark VIII had a 6 speed!:eek:

Stephen

Dave can't wait to see how she turns out. That will be a BEAST!:D

Stephen,

I encountered a bit of a setback last night when hooking it up to the Snap On scanner to monitor fuel trims. I must have done something wrong because I could barely get it started and it was running like crap, the tach quit working for a while, CELs were flashing and it started belching fuel smoke and burning my eyes. Thought I accidentially fried my chip.

It eventually started running well enough to be driveable. Unfortunately the data I gathered is suspect because after I unplugged the scanner, all the nonsense stopped and it ran fine :confused: Pretty sure I had one too many wires hooked up, for retreving live data with the engine running. I might actually try reading those directions now.

David

superdadsc
04-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Directions:rolleyes: Who reads directions! Always a last resort and I should know better by now being 48! Still like to do thing my way!

Tried to put a gas grill together that needed partial assembly, yeah right took me better part of the day and my little ones heard a few words come out of my mouth that they never heard before!:eek:

It's close Dave, it's close!:D

Ghost
04-09-2009, 09:02 PM
David, are you using any kind of a stud girdle on your build? I'm building pretty much the same motor for my XR4 except I'll be using the 2.1L Kenne Bell. I'll actually need to hit up David Dalke for my pistons/rings/rods.

I'm really debating the Morana or Delk girdle for my build, but I'm not sure if it would be all that beneficial considering how thin it is in some places. I wish that the BTM girdle was still available :(

David Neibert
04-10-2009, 10:15 AM
David, are you using any kind of a stud girdle on your build? I'm building pretty much the same motor for my XR4 except I'll be using the 2.1L Kenne Bell. I'll actually need to hit up David Dalke for my pistons/rings/rods.

I'm really debating the Morana or Delk girdle for my build, but I'm not sure if it would be all that beneficial considering how thin it is in some places. I wish that the BTM girdle was still available :(

No I did not use a girdle on the main bearing caps, but I am using a windage tray. I'm not convinced there is a need for the girdle if using properly torqued ARP main bearing studs. I may discover I was wrong about that later on.

David

aplvlydrtybird
04-10-2009, 10:25 AM
No I did not use a girdle on the main bearing caps, but I am using a windage tray. I'm not convinced there is a need for the girdle if using properly torqued ARP main bearing studs. I may discover I was wrong about that later on.

David


I hope that's not the case!

Wouldn't you want to be better safe than sorry?

92bird
04-10-2009, 12:00 PM
I know the factory 4.2L truck engine uses a small stud girdle, but has short main caps. It may have been that it was cheaper material wise for Ford to manufacture a stud girdle rather than tall main caps.

I worry about side-loading with the extra stroke, but might not be an issue with the SC's tall main caps.

Keep the pics and updates coming David. I'm interested to see how this works for you!!!

Jeramie

David Neibert
04-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Wouldn't you want to be better safe than sorry?

Yes...that's the path I normally choose, but after running my last motor for about 30K hard miles and using nitrous and enduring a multitude of screw ups that should have broken the motor it still survived. It was only after receiving the new motor that the old one was taken apart for inspection by Dave. He did find evidence of main bearing cap movement/walk, but also noted that the studs were only torqued to the stock 60 ft. lbs instead of 80 ft. lbs that are possible when using the APR studs.

Had I know that my old motor had shown signs of main cap movement, I would probably have opted for the girdle...just to be safe. But when considering that this motor won't be using nitrous and because of that will be running at about 75 rwhp less, and the main studs are now torqued to 80 ft. lbs, I don't really think there will be a problem. I don't expect to be taking this motor apart for repairs anytime soon, but if I do I'll inspect the mains and let you guys know what I find.

David

David Neibert
04-10-2009, 12:27 PM
I know the factory 4.2L truck engine uses a small stud girdle, but has short main caps. It may have been that it was cheaper material wise for Ford to manufacture a stud girdle rather than tall main caps.

I worry about side-loading with the extra stroke, but might not be an issue with the SC's tall main caps.

Keep the pics and updates coming David. I'm interested to see how this works for you!!!

Jeramie

Will do..... I'm currently stuck waiting for the rain to clear out so I can try again to hook up the scanner and monitor fuel trims. I need to forward that and some other data to Dave so he can adjust the tune to get it close enough that I can start the break in process. Right now it's running too rich and I don't want to risk washing down the cylinder walls.

David

seawalkersee
04-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Mains start to walk in the SBF at about 400 hp. Not sure when the SCs start to walk.

SWS

David Neibert
04-10-2009, 02:17 PM
Mains start to walk in the SBF at about 400 hp. Not sure when the SCs start to walk.

SWS

Chris,

The SC main bearing caps are considerably larger than a 5.0 and the block is also stronger. The longer v8 crank is likely a factor too.

David

XxSlowpokexX
04-11-2009, 09:57 AM
HP/TQ per bore would be less in a v8 then a v6 however so with all things being considered at the same RWHP range youde need beefier v6 internals s well as the block and mains themselves

David Neibert
04-12-2009, 12:07 AM
Round two of road testing was completed this morning. I hooked up the scanner correctly this time and didn't have any of the weird stuff going on that happened last time. So far so good. For the first time in years, I don't have any leaks under the car :)

I expect to have my spare chip back from Dave with several revised tunes to try next week.

David

Ira R.
04-12-2009, 10:03 AM
Round two of road testing was completed this morning. I hooked up the scanner correctly this time and didn't have any of the weird stuff going on that happened last time. So far so good. For the first time in years, I don't have any leaks under the car :)

I expect to have my spare chip back from Dave with several revised tunes to try next week.

David

That's good news. It's getting there.

Ira

CMac89
04-12-2009, 11:02 AM
That's always good to hear.

I think you should bring it to the May meet.

kenewagner
04-12-2009, 12:22 PM
That's always good to hear.

I think you should bring it to the May meet.

Where are you at with your Blower combination Casey?

Ken

CMac89
04-12-2009, 08:21 PM
Where are you at with your Blower combination Casey?

Ken

I've just been using it as a school wagon. The plugs only last about a week before they foul out. In need of a tune, one would say.

I have been working on a set of heads and I'm gettin ready to build a shortblock for it, too. Afftterrrr thaaaaaattt, I need to find out something for an intercooler.

David Neibert
04-12-2009, 11:23 PM
That's always good to hear.

I think you should bring it to the May meet.

Casey,

It's not going to be ready to race that soon. Bringing the turbo car, mainly to redeem itself after it's poor showing at the Shootout.

David

BLOWN38
04-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Thats good to hear David. Can't wait to see that bad boy run! Got mine back up and running too... and like Casey, still in bad need of a tune.

CurtisPaulfrey
04-13-2009, 08:29 PM
My new engine is still on the stand next to the car, I'm jealous of your new toy

I'll be making test passes @ GIR by the end of the year......hope to see you there

David Neibert
04-14-2009, 02:52 PM
My new engine is still on the stand next to the car, I'm jealous of your new toy

I'll be making test passes @ GIR by the end of the year......hope to see you there

Curtis,

If you have the new engine on the stand, why will it take until the end of the year to be making test passes ?

David

David Neibert
04-18-2009, 08:50 PM
After replacing the cam sensor this morning the car starts and runs much better. Took it for a 12 mile drive to test some tunes, and other than getting some CELs and running a little warmer than usual, everythings seems to be fine.

Decided to see how much boost it's making with the larger motor and it's making a max of 17 pounds which is pretty close to what I was hoping for. At the same drive ratio I made 20 pounds with the old motor, so the 3.00" diameter pulley I've got should put it back to about 20 pounds. Currently using a 3.25" dia pulley.

It feels strong, just not quite as strong as my old motor did, but the timing is set a lot lower and I don't have any idea what the A/F ratio is it WOT. I'm sure it's going to be fine once we get it tuned and increase the boost a little. For now I'll just be driving it around to put some miles on the motor.

David

superdadsc
04-19-2009, 01:41 AM
Thats great David, sounds like you just need to get her dialed in. I am sure it must be nice to have her on the road again!:D

Stephen

CurtisPaulfrey
04-20-2009, 03:55 PM
Curtis,

If you have the new engine on the stand, why will it take until the end of the year to be making test passes ?

David

I'm running the Camaro in street car that will take up most of my time, as far as the SC goes I still have to address all the suspension + install a cage. I liked the way my car hooked with the old motor but I don't feel I have enough when it comes to hitting the IRS with a brake

David Neibert
04-28-2009, 01:00 PM
While messing with the car last night trying to remove air from the cooling system (wasn't any) and seeing if it started any better on another program, I found where my meth injection fluid has been going.

Somewhere along the line (probably when we installed LT headers), my washer fluid hose coming off the washer pump was disconnected from the windsheild washer nozzels. There was some plastic fitting in the end of the hose that ended just beneath the master cylinder that looked like a check valve. Looks like another hose was supposed to connect there to get fluid up the the nozzels that spray on the windsheild.

Anyhow..I had the front of the car jacked up (to help remove air pockets) and motor was running for about 15 minutes to get it up to temp and after I was all done and lowering the jack I heard a sizzeling sound and what sounded like water running. Shined the flashlight down where sound was coming from and saw washer fluid pouring onto one of the header primary tubes. I'm guessing this is the same thing that happened when I first started the new motor and not a stuck open anti-siphion solenoid as I first thought. Dumped about half a tank of fluid before it quit running out the hose.

I actually upgraded and relocated the anti-siphion solenoid last year because of fluid being lost from the washer tank. I never saw any fluid on the ground, so I guess it was drying up before I noticed it. Anyway that mystery is solved and I feel alot better knowing that the new motor didn't swallow all that fluid on the initial start up. Hose is now plugged and I'll disconnect the power wire to the washer pump.

Other than running a little hotter than normal, it seems to be running good on the tweaked mail order tune from Dave. Can't wait to see what it does with the timing put back in and boost increased to usual 20 pounds.

David

Kurt K
04-28-2009, 02:25 PM
Glad the Snow controller doesn't appear to have been the problem:D

David Neibert
04-28-2009, 02:58 PM
Glad the Snow controller doesn't appear to have been the problem:D

Kurt,

The new controller is still acting a little flakey, but does not appear to be the reason for the loss of fluid. I restested the controller with pump set to start spraying at 2.5 volts and it activated about where it should (aprox 7 pounds), but didn't shut itself off when partially getting out of the throttle. That was strange because it was enough to show vacuum on the gauge, and the motor started missing. The indicator light didn't go off until I got completely off the gas pedal. With starting voltage set to just under 3 volts, it seems to be turning on and off okay, but the activation boost level is a little higher than I'd like (aprox 10 pounds).

David