Please, what should I try next? I'm seriously about to give up

stigs

Registered User
Hi all - I'm really stuck getting this car started, and have no idea where to go from here - I know this is a long post but I really need to the advice of some SC vets.

I've researched every thread on the forum I can find on the topic and am still stuck. I really love this car! However, I'm starting to wonder why...

I'll put my questions on top, supporting data below

What should I do / replace next? Some of my last thoughts are...
a) Keep looking for vacuum leaks?
b) Maybe the parts store gave me wrong injectors? Would stock injectors be a certain color?
c) Maybe my "new" MAF / IAC are bad? Is there any way to tell other than buying new ones?
d) Should I compression check the cylinders? Maybe I lost a head gasket? (There are few things in the world I hate more than replacing the plugs on this car)
e) Something else my pea-sized hasn't thought of next...


Now the information...
I'm truly stuck working on my wife's '95 SC, manual tranny. The original engine was getting VERY long in the tooth, so I dropped a crate engine engine in. Despite my objections, my wife asked me to keep everything stock, so I have done my very best to do so.
After dropping the new block in, and having some standard issues, the engine started and ran for my first couple test runs, then I started having troubles, problems included (but not all inclusive), vacuum leaks, stuck injectors, bad sensors, etc...

Regardless, it won't start now - it will turn over and "kick" occasionally and if I pump the pedal it will start momentarily then summarily die. If I disconnect the MAF, I can keep it running if I continuously pump the pedal (although it seems super rich with white smoke / fumes out the tail pipe.)

Here's everything that I've done firewall forward: (at least that I can think of at the moment)
-Crate Long Block
-Rebuilt blower
-New Injectors
-new Fuel Press Reg
-new EGR valve and sensor
-new coolant temp sensor
-new Cam Sensor
-new crank sensor
-new MAF sensor (no- it's not a specialty store MAF)
-new IAC (again, no, not specialty brand)
-new fuel pump
-new plugs
-new DIS
-new CPU
-new clutch
-new flywheel

Testing
-Fuel pressure tests good 35+psi on the rail and takes days to bleed all the way down
-I've looked for vacuum leaks more times than I can count, including pressurizing the lines and practically soaking the engine in soapy water. Under ~5psi pressure, a noticeable 'woosh" is heard when I open the throttle body, which makes me think that there is no longer a huge leak at least...
-The fact that it WILL run makes me think something resembling ignition is present...
- key on engine off tests gives no codes, can't get a engine running test
- can't keep engine running long enough to spray starter fluid on lines for vacuum leak check

Thanks again, everyone - I appreciate any and all help!
 
Are you getting any back fire when the engine is running.....

What condition were the injectors in when you installed them.....

Are you sure you wired them up correctly.....

Thats all I can think of right off the top of my head.....

Most of the time it will be something simple.....:rolleyes:

Get some IC tube gaskets to rule out any leaks in those areas....

They will make tune ups a lot easier......
 
i would finger your idle air control... change it with a known good unit and report back. my wife was driving my 94 and it all of a sudden just died... she held the throttle open a bit and it fired right up... changed teh iac and no issues...

check all your ground wires, primarily the wire on the pass. side, down on the frame rail. that has been known to cause issues.
 
Are you getting any back fire when the engine is running.....

What condition were the injectors in when you installed them.....

Are you sure you wired them up correctly.....

Thats all I can think of right off the top of my head.....

Most of the time it will be something simple.....:rolleyes:

Get some IC tube gaskets to rule out any leaks in those areas....

They will make tune ups a lot easier......

Injectors were new when I installed them - is there any quick way to tell that they are the correct size?

I've doused the IC tubes with soapy water under pressure, and resealed them again just to be sure...

I'll double check the wiring

Thanks so much for the help - keep it coming!
 
i would finger your idle air control... change it with a known good unit and report back. my wife was driving my 94 and it all of a sudden just died... she held the throttle open a bit and it fired right up... changed teh iac and no issues...

check all your ground wires, primarily the wire on the pass. side, down on the frame rail. that has been known to cause issues.

Ground is good to go - any one know where I can find a known good IAC in the Houston / Central TX area?

Thanks for all your help!
 
Are you getting any back fire when the engine is running.....

What condition were the injectors in when you installed them.....

Are you sure you wired them up correctly.....

Thats all I can think of right off the top of my head.....

Most of the time it will be something simple.....:rolleyes:

Get some IC tube gaskets to rule out any leaks in those areas....

They will make tune ups a lot easier......

Just re-read your post - nope, no backfires but I can barely keep it running anyhow...

How does one mis-wire a injector? This is my first time working with fuel injection so I'm not being sarcastic in the least!

Thanks again for the help!
 
you can get the injector connectors on the pass side easily.. 1 and 2 almost got mixed up on mine. i believe the red and tan wires are to cylinder number 1, red and white are number two. i may be backwards.. i just went on with the diagram in the back of the haynes.
 
Have you checked cam sensor timing? Have you tried to run the car with the cam sensor disconnected?
 
Definitely check the cam sensor. Mucking around with the throttle shouldn't have anything to do with starting.

Most likely the rich condition you are seeing is due to messing with the gas pedal, the partial hick-ups are going to be when you have the pedal all the way to to floor (which tells the EEC-IV to turn off the fuel injectors) and the excess fuel vapor tries to ignite.

You can cause issues with using the throttle while cranking. You'll get too much fuel in the cylinders and foul the plugs. Fuel Fouled plugs make starting an engine nearly impossible.

Personally, I'd slow down, change out all the plugs, then try what dave suggested and pull the cam sensor connector off and try to start without touching the gas pedal.

If that doesn't work, then next consider doing the no-start pinpoint test as discussed in this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25523&highlight=pinpoint

Post back with your results for either of the above suggestions and then folks can walk you through it.
 
Definitely check the cam sensor. Mucking around with the throttle shouldn't have anything to do with starting.

Most likely the rich condition you are seeing is due to messing with the gas pedal, the partial hick-ups are going to be when you have the pedal all the way to to floor (which tells the EEC-IV to turn off the fuel injectors) and the excess fuel vapor tries to ignite.

You can cause issues with using the throttle while cranking. You'll get too much fuel in the cylinders and foul the plugs. Fuel Fouled plugs make starting an engine nearly impossible.

Personally, I'd slow down, change out all the plugs, then try what dave suggested and pull the cam sensor connector off and try to start without touching the gas pedal.

If that doesn't work, then next consider doing the no-start pinpoint test as discussed in this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25523&highlight=pinpoint

Post back with your results for either of the above suggestions and then folks can walk you through it.

Thanks for all the words - I'll try all this ASAP
 
Tps sensor.
If it's reading 5v you'll never get it started as that is clear flood(injector shutoff) and can happen when a tps goes bad.
Check to see if you have fuel first by disconnecting your fuel filter and seeing if she shoots while cranking,if so you know your getting fuel.
Next see if you have spark by disconnecting a spark plug wire at the coil
(i know not good for it but he probably does not have a spark tester)and looking for a big blue spark while someone cranks.
 
Tps sensor.
If it's reading 5v you'll never get it started as that is clear flood(injector shutoff) and can happen when a tps goes bad.
Check to see if you have fuel first by disconnecting your fuel filter and seeing if she shoots while cranking,if so you know your getting fuel.
Next see if you have spark by disconnecting a spark plug wire at the coil
(i know not good for it but he probably does not have a spark tester)and looking for a big blue spark while someone cranks.

Fuel pressure is good at rail and stays pressurized for well over 24 hours. Spark tests good. Thanks for your thoughts - it's appreciated
 
Definitely check the cam sensor. Mucking around with the throttle shouldn't have anything to do with starting.

Most likely the rich condition you are seeing is due to messing with the gas pedal, the partial hick-ups are going to be when you have the pedal all the way to to floor (which tells the EEC-IV to turn off the fuel injectors) and the excess fuel vapor tries to ignite.

You can cause issues with using the throttle while cranking. You'll get too much fuel in the cylinders and foul the plugs. Fuel Fouled plugs make starting an engine nearly impossible.

Personally, I'd slow down, change out all the plugs, then try what dave suggested and pull the cam sensor connector off and try to start without touching the gas pedal.

If that doesn't work, then next consider doing the no-start pinpoint test as discussed in this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25523&highlight=pinpoint

Post back with your results for either of the above suggestions and then folks can walk you through it.

The plugs are very fresh...(I was thinking fouled plugs too so I just changed them, but I will still try changing them again) I went out and tried starting sans cam sensor - no change at all - again it "kicks" as if starting, I'll come off the starter and it will kick and sputter for a few seconds and die, regardless of what I do with the throttle. (I'm not touching the throttle before it "starts.")

Anyone have any other thoughts before I go through the pinpoint test provided?
 
The plugs are very fresh...(I was thinking fouled plugs too so I just changed them, but I will still try changing them again) I went out and tried starting sans cam sensor - no change at all - again it "kicks" as if starting, I'll come off the starter and it will kick and sputter for a few seconds and die, regardless of what I do with the throttle. (I'm not touching the throttle before it "starts.")

Anyone have any other thoughts before I go through the pinpoint test provided?

when trying with the cam sensor disconnected. you need to follow a cycle of.
Key on, crank. If no start, key off then key on crank. if no start, key off then key on, crank. The cycle of key on, crank, key off allows the EEC to guess at the best time to start. It'll guess right about once out of 3 tries.
 
when trying with the cam sensor disconnected. you need to follow a cycle of.
Key on, crank. If no start, key off then key on crank. if no start, key off then key on, crank. The cycle of key on, crank, key off allows the EEC to guess at the best time to start. It'll guess right about once out of 3 tries.

I gave this a shot and once or twice out of ten tries the car idled (albeit very rough) for a good 5 - 10 seconds...I'm going to change the plugs and try this again. If it runs after that, is it a bad CPS / CPS wiring harness / CPS alignment?

I can't say this enough - thank you Mike and everyone!
 
You have to check that tps and make sure you have the right voltage since you have not ssaid you replaced it or even checked it.
Also have you pulled codes???
 
When mine didnt start after HG, the ground cable that goes from the battery negative to the radiator core was missing, installed a cable and it started right up.. just a thought.
 
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