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View Full Version : Exploded radiator and white smoke in exhust!!!!!



BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 10:44 AM
Ok I got this car for free when I decided to stop and ask about a downed SC that I had been watching sit is this guys driveway for at least 4-5 years and never moved.

The guy told me that it needed a new radiator and Head Gaskets, definitly needs the radiator but I dunno about the HGs, Ive only started the car twice first time was only for a minute flat or so and I got no smoke while it was running, the second time I let her run for a good 10 minutes or so and towards the end she started smoking.

I dont know if this was due to the fact that she hadnt been started it so long and I added some seafoam to the gas tank becuase I didnt know if he put stabilizer in the gas before he let it sit that long.

Shes pretty clean on the inside and underbody but the paint is shot on the upward facing parts of the car.

Enough talk on to the pics and vid. BRB

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 10:47 AM
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/81/l_5dfc983e6ec74f4092158fe22b63939e.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/109/l_d669b2a87df6479a97754addf7afa921.jpg
The blown up radiator, I still can figure out how this happend, never heard of anything like this
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/98/l_d60f4cd653554848b532a236a8eb8618.jpg
How its supposed to look
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/87/l_54ddebaf96c6416bbbe8a07a9601c355.jpg

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 10:50 AM
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/79/l_b050fa7846234819b16543d63f86eb25.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/65/l_1aaf1776fefb44af86b3753c84d786bc.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/84/l_acb6c9499cf348969dd3207dbfb79433.jpg
This was part of the guys "traction control system"
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/92/l_8a97d06cd553488cae4246546389ec1c.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/96/l_0ee1963942684fe1a1026a0299a87ff2.jpg

XxSlowpokexX
05-13-2009, 10:53 AM
check the oil for milky white>>if it sat that long in that condition Id say noway..

However if the oil looks good it may have blown the gaskets but leaking compression into the water jackets...

THEN AGAIN if it ssmoking an dthee is no water in the oil (or the rad by the look of it) The smoke has to be from something else..oi lor such

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 10:55 AM
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/101/l_e93000f195634de9bc99d33603f213f2.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/69/l_e26786c736dc4049a30fa7c6202d8b88.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/69/l_34cc4ce37b5b4b2d9937f0884f345e9f.jpg

Anybody know whats behind this little un openable door in my roof over the back seat???
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/71/l_232771c5fcf0477ab74f343e6b84326e.jpg
My "Premium" sound package, you know we gotta do something about that, cant be all go and no show!!
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/106/l_0e77e4a38a454e67b9bdc00c3224da9d.jpg
The worst of my outside rust
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/94/l_e67e5bb35e2047448625be833175a58a.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/81/l_b9a80ceedf434cde9cf219f1a38c24c4.jpg

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 11:01 AM
I hate ford for using these connectors, they are nice and solid I will give them that but damn they are a pain in the ~~~
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/111/l_8dfef9b5b0d047bc91a05f159fa15412.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/75/l_0e12fae77f3b4fb18a3090d25416629c.jpg
I was supprised when I looked up under the front wheel wells, this is immaculate for a non garage stored michigan car that sat outside that long
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/68/l_8722a9346a984df88ddf34f8849fe9c3.jpg

The worst of the underbody rust.
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/79/l_82e5e60a984e4f8ab64b52765f4dff85.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/102/l_51aaf48f9f49407b93094a6297677f44.jpg
vid in a sec

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 11:09 AM
check the oil for milky white>>if it sat that long in that condition Id say noway..

However if the oil looks good it may have blown the gaskets but leaking compression into the water jackets...

THEN AGAIN if it ssmoking an dthee is no water in the oil (or the rad by the look of it) The smoke has to be from something else..oil or such

you would say no way to what, what other problems would it cause if the gaskets were blown and leaking compression into the water jackets

and thanks in advance for any helpful advise everyone

XxSlowpokexX
05-13-2009, 11:36 AM
if the oilk is milky and its been sitting for 4 years that way...Stay away

If there is no water in there now and its smokin when started..Well that can be a whole other issue

Rocker rust is prevelant in these cars

The hatch in the headliner is for moonroof motor access

And if the price is right it may be worth it just to see whats up. Headgasket and red job wont cost much out of pocket if you do it yourself

David Neibert
05-13-2009, 11:53 AM
if the oilk is milky and its been sitting for 4 years that way...Stay away

If there is no water in there now and its smokin when started..Well that can be a whole other issue

Rocker rust is prevelant in these cars

The hatch in the headliner is for moonroof motor access

And if the price is right it may be worth it just to see whats up. Headgasket and red job wont cost much out of pocket if you do it yourself

Damon,


I got this car for free

David

XxSlowpokexX
05-13-2009, 12:06 PM
I totally missed that part!

Well then a few hundred to see how it runs fixed is a no brainer IMO

But if there is water in the oil thats been sititng there all this time...Id say its engine time and dont bother throwin money into fixing teh gaskets

David Neibert
05-13-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm shocked that it even started after sitting for 4 or 5 years. If it was a blown HG I would have expected at least one of the cylinders to be full of coolant.

I'd pull the plugs and do a quick compression test, if all cylinders are within 10-15% on cold cranking pressure put a fresh set of plugs in and install another radiator.

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 12:30 PM
if the oilk is milky and its been sitting for 4 years that way...Stay away

If there is no water in there now and its smokin when started..Well that can be a whole other issue

Rocker rust is prevelant in these cars

The hatch in the headliner is for moonroof motor access

And if the price is right it may be worth it just to see whats up. Headgasket and red job wont cost much out of pocket if you do it yourself

There is a tapping sound comming from the vavle gasket cover area, if its not the SC or some related part. Ive never heard a SC running with the hood up so I dont want to jump to conclusions but heres a vid I made yesterday of the motor running, didnt get a chance to film the smoke my battery went dead after I went to find a flashlight so I didnt get to record that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7BEMViV7AU

Gotta turn the volume up but if u listen at 3.30 second u hear the engine bog down real hard and start clunkin for a slpit second and then it goes back to normal, it did it when I first started the car too but I couldnt hear it in the video

Tim Groth
05-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Sounds like your lifters aren't building pressure and thats probably due to sitting with old oil and not being ran in 4-5 years.

I'd change the fluids, add some sea foam to the crankcase and see if it doesn't clear up. I've had that same sound on a few of mine before that have sat.

Also changing the oil should determine if you have coolant in the oil (blown headgasket). Looks like chocolate milk in most cases.

-Tim

Mike8675309
05-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Bad radiator cap will blow the top off the radiator. Though you would think a hose would go first. Radiator likely had some corrosion that made it the weak point. Maybe it was low on coolant at the time as well.

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 12:57 PM
I'm shocked that it even started after sitting for 4 or 5 years. If it was a blown HG I would have expected at least one of the cylinders to be full of coolant.

I'd pull the plugs and do a quick compression test, if all cylinders are within 10-15% on cold cranking pressure put a fresh set of plugs in and install another radiator.

Sea foam works wonders on fuel systems plust he might have stabilized the fuel before he stored the car. what tools would I need to do a compression test, another thing to mention. Even though the radiator blew like that all the coolant in the reserve tank is still at the full mark and clean, could this be a sign of a stuck thermostat or bad water pump.


Whats the longest you guys would consider letting the car run to see if it will stop smoking with the radiator in that condition, and someone said something about rusting rockers, would rusted rockers have the motor making a ticking noise, are there any particular smells from the exhaust when your HG's are blown.

Im hesitant about the smoke because when I put seafoam in my motorcycle after I made a noob mistake and didnt winterize it the thing was blowning white smoke for about 15 minutes then it stoped. Im going to go check the oil and whatnot and Ill be back later with the results from that checkup.

Once again thanks for everyones help

BlackbirdSc94
05-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Bad radiator cap will blow the top off the radiator. Though you would think a hose would go first. Radiator likely had some corrosion that made it the weak point. Maybe it was low on coolant at the time as well.

I was going to go get the cap pressure tested but I figured that if im replacine the radiator Id get a new cap with it but i guess I should do it just to eliminate the possiblity of me doing extra work.

I basically figured the same thing about a hose or the actual cap blowing off before it would rip the radiator apart like that.

Mike8675309
05-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Whats the longest you guys would consider letting the car run to see if it will stop smoking Im going to go check the oil and whatnot and Ill be back later with the results from that checkup.

Once again thanks for everyones help

I wouldn't start the motor at all if the oil doesn't look perfect.

David Neibert
05-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Stop running the motor without coolant. I wouldn't run it for more than 30 seconds without fluids circulating...gets real hot around the cylinders/combustion chambers on the heads.

Blown HGs could have caused the radiator to fail or it could have been a bad radiator cap or just old age that caused it to fail. I suggest you get a used radiator from someone parting out an SC and fill it with plain water and put some fresh oil in the motor, change the plugs...then start testing to see what else is wrong.

After watching the video, it didn't sound like it was running that bad except for the very noisy lifters, so I wouldn't bother with checking the compression yet. Changing the plugs will be hard enough.....if it's you first time.

David

Duffy Floyd
05-13-2009, 04:42 PM
I saw "Randy of the Redwoods" (I think that was his name) blow a radiator apart at Carlisle on the dyno a few years back I assume from blowing HG. Split the radiator very much what you have pictured. Only thing that does that is pressure....most likely from HG but possible from failed rad cap.

XxSlowpokexX
05-13-2009, 05:48 PM
So how does the oil look??? like I said if its milky just stop. If not..

Definitely change the oil and filter and put a rad in before you hurt something..Then see what happens...If there is a bad headgasket youll know

BlackbirdSc94
05-14-2009, 04:15 AM
Stop running the motor without coolant. I wouldn't run it for more than 30 seconds without fluids circulating...gets real hot around the cylinders/combustion chambers on the heads.

Blown HGs could have caused the radiator to fail or it could have been a bad radiator cap or just old age that caused it to fail. I suggest you get a used radiator from someone parting out an SC and fill it with plain water and put some fresh oil in the motor, change the plugs...then start testing to see what else is wrong.

After watching the video, it didn't sound like it was running that bad except for the very noisy lifters, so I wouldn't bother with checking the compression yet. Changing the plugs will be hard enough.....if it's you first time.

David


Well a lil late for your warning, I had just cut it off after about 15 20 mins of idle time (DOH!!) when you posted, My oil was fine (jet black and low but no milkshakes here), the exhaust started smoking after it warmed up, then about 5 minutes in it quite smoking. I even put it in gear and knocked the rust off the brakes just sliding back and forth on them while I was waiting, this things got alot more pull at idle than my 96 grand prix se lol.

I wont be messing with it again until I get this cap pressure tested, new water pump, t stat and replace the radiator, if the caps fine is there anyway for me to check the old radiator 4 clogs once its outta the car considering the top half of the radiators blown off

Now after I cut the car off I walk around front and I see smoke coming from UNDER the supercharger, hope I didnt do to much damage or is this normal for a car this dirty thats been sitting this long, I have never dealt with a car that has sat stagnant this long


Someone said put some seafoam in the crank case, I have been skeptical about putting additive in anything except the fuel system and then all I will use is sea foam or stp, has anyone here actually added sea foam to a SC's crank case and not had any problems.

BuRHan90SC
05-14-2009, 06:57 AM
do NOT even start the car if u havnt changed the oil yet u r gonna do some serious damage to motor cuz oil has lost its viscosity after sitting for 5 years....plus have ur radiator replaced with proper LBS pressure cap for ur bird ( cant remember ritenow wats the pressure for rad cap for SC...auto parts store should be able to tell u) and check ur Thermostat too ( if i were u i would replace the thermostat as well no matter even if it working rite:cool:)....and did u check the oil in supercharger as well? if its to the recommended mark?..plus check ur tranny fluid too.....now u can start the car and start messing around to see if it has a blown HG or not wat...fluids r the blood of the car...no blood no life....


now for that noise u have under the valve cover..does it go away wen the car gets to the normal temp?


i like ur speedo tho:p

KMT
05-14-2009, 10:46 AM
>The blown up radiator, I still can figure out how this happend, never heard of anything like this

I don't think it blew up...exactly.

>non garage stored michigan car that sat outside that long

Pretty common if it was running straight water/no anti-freeze and was broken up by expansion when things turned to ice during one of those 4 or 5 winters sitting outside.

Doesn't bode well for the engine block, etc. You might want to take a peek at any expansion plugs you can eye-ball, etc.

BlackbirdSc94
05-14-2009, 10:50 AM
well Im going to get a tune up and whatnot this weekend and she whats up with her, I take it I can get supercharger oil at advanced auto right, also I have access to a pressure washer, would you guys suggest me using it on the engine bay (with car running after fluid replacements), how does the supercharger fair with something like that.

Once again thanks for the help you guys and if anyone ever has any questions about car audio feel free to ask me, if I dont have a answer I can find reliable people that do

BlackbirdSc94
05-14-2009, 10:53 AM
>The blown up radiator, I still can figure out how this happend, never heard of anything like this

I don't think it blew up...exactly.

>non garage stored michigan car that sat outside that long

Pretty common if it was running straight water/no anti-freeze and was broken up by expansion when things turned to ice during one of those 4 or 5 winters sitting outside.

Doesn't bode well for the engine block, etc. You might want to take a peek at any expansion plugs you can eye-ball, etc.

i was talking about the body and what not when I said it was outside that long

what is a expansion plug and what does it do???? Im pretty much a noob if its a non common engine part

oh and thanks, I love the speedo too, will love the car even more when I can peg the thing to the right instead of the left

Surgin
05-14-2009, 11:09 AM
Get the oil from GM, any dealer. Then ask for a break on the price, they will give it. Two bottles, 4 oz. each, you need 6 oz., take the M90 off the motor and drain it. And that way you can get in there and clean out any birds nests, leaves, etc. from under it (might be your smoke problem).

If there was a freeze plug that turned, he would have some serious fluid leakage.

Keep us updated, that was a nice find.

Justin

David Neibert
05-14-2009, 11:13 AM
It's smoking because he's cookin the motor by running it for 15-20 minutes without a functional cooling system.

David

KMT
05-14-2009, 12:10 PM
>If there was a freeze plug that turned, he would have some serious fluid leakage.

With an open top tank on the radiator, I'd say he had some serious fluid leakage goin' on & since it doesn't sound like there is any fluid at all in the system now, 'leakage' is all past tense :)

There is a reason they call it 'anti-freeze'.

>It's smoking because he's cookin

'nd all dat's miss'n is 'da sauce...

Surgin
05-14-2009, 12:45 PM
there was water in it(from the video), at least there was some leaking from the car before he cranked it.

BuRHan90SC
05-14-2009, 07:20 PM
well Im going to get a tune up and whatnot this weekend and she whats up with her, I take it I can get supercharger oil at advanced auto right, also I have access to a pressure washer, would you guys suggest me using it on the engine bay (with car running after fluid replacements), how does the supercharger fair with something like that.

Once again thanks for the help you guys and if anyone ever has any questions about car audio feel free to ask me, if I dont have a answer I can find reliable people that do

u can get the M90 S/C oil from GM but i would go to FORD...technically there is a difference in GM and FORD's S/C oil formula but GM's oil is compatible too.....

for washing the engine bay....u can get some Heavy Duty Engine Degreaser from auto zone for cheap, spray all around on engine area and leave it for atleast 5 mins and then wash it with pressure washer (dont go too close with pressure washer wash it from a lil bit farther) if u want to u can cover some electrical stuff with some bag on them but it aint gonna hurt...start the car after and all water gonna vaporize....gud luck


Burhan
2nd Year Automotive Engineering Student.

David Neibert
05-15-2009, 09:42 AM
there was water in it(from the video), at least there was some leaking from the car before he cranked it.

Dumping some water into what's left of the radiator isn't nearly enough to provide cooling for the motor. Motor is still full of air, and it's not circulating the coolant to remove the heat.

His temp gauges were probably still showing a cold motor, because they don't read air temp, they must have coolant surrounding the sensor to read the temp.

David

XxSlowpokexX
05-15-2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe Im misisng something....Did he check oil???

BlackbirdSc94
05-15-2009, 04:16 PM
His temp gauges were probably still showing a cold motor, because they don't read air temp, they must have coolant surrounding the sensor to read the temp.

David

bingo, thats what made me realize I probably turn it off, well Ill be back in a week or two with the results after I get all that replaced

BlackbirdSc94
05-29-2009, 04:29 AM
Ok last night my other car got impounded and this morning when I go to get the thing I get there and my damn sound system is gone:mad: amp and subs just gone with no signs of forced entry or rush job, I think the tow truck guy did it myself but anyway, I dont want to start putting stuff back into that car so someone can see it again later and get my twice.

So I was wondering just how much work could be done on my motor for about 1000 and what would you do first, I really need to beef up the bottom end, I want it to be able to take 4-500 hp does anyone have parts suggestions and where to get them

Tim Groth
05-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Ok last night my other car got impounded and this morning when I go to get the thing I get there and my damn sound system is gone:mad: amp and subs just gone with no signs of forced entry or rush job, I think the tow truck guy did it myself but anyway, I dont want to start putting stuff back into that car so someone can see it again later and get my twice.

So I was wondering just how much work could be done on my motor for about 1000 and what would you do first, I really need to beef up the bottom end, I want it to be able to take 4-500 hp does anyone have parts suggestions and where to get them

Be hard to make a good SC motor for 1000 invested to be perfectly honest with you. Seeing as the car has set for several years I would suggest trying to crawl before you try to run with the big dawgs.

Since you're still unsure the condition of the headgaskets I would suggest using that balance towards that repair also, new plugs, wires, hoses, belts and general upkeep items that I am sure need some attention.

-Tim

thunderkid84
05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
why was it impounded ?

XxSlowpokexX
05-29-2009, 03:00 PM
making 400-500 hp is very expensive regardless of your bottom end

A stock rebuilt is probably more then 1000..

BlackbirdSc94
05-29-2009, 11:18 PM
making 400-500 hp is very expensive regardless of your bottom end

A stock rebuilt is probably more then 1000..

i wasnt talking about actually making 500 hp, just a bottom end strong enough to take it with the stock top end

thunderkid84
05-29-2009, 11:25 PM
i wasnt talking about actually making 500 hp, just a bottom end strong enough to take it with the stock top end

ummm....

you're not gonna make even 400 with a stock top end

BECERRASC
05-29-2009, 11:43 PM
hey once i got my car impounded and when i get the payperwork at the police station i ask them about my system and they told me if something is missing just don't take the car and come back to us and guess what ?? it was missing the system so i did what the police had told me to and when i when to the police and told them the make a phone call ..... the she told me to go back at the tow yard and the give me every thing ...... they said that they removed them to keep it safe inside the warehouse .... i thins its B S but i got everithing back

fturner
05-30-2009, 08:57 AM
The stock bottom end on these cars are very stout as has been proven many times, so long as of course nothing has been damanged by insufficient oil or over heating etc. Realize that internally these motors are already making well over 500 hp when your into the high 300 and 400 rwhp.

For now, you should just focus on refreshing the bearings etc and get a BHJ harmonic balancer on it.... thats IF your going to tear into it, and then get the car running good before you decide where you are going to go with it. There is countless cases even on these forums of how folks threw 1000's and 1000's at the car with upgrades and performance enhancements and the car runs like crap and doesn't produce any power.... just because of a $5.00 part they where told initially to replace. The scrap yards are full of examples like this.

As was mentioned, $1000 is not going to get you very far even with just a refreshing of the bottom end, and thats if your doing it yourself.

Focus on getting the car running good first.... focus on getting the car running good first..... focus on getting the car running good first

Fraser

BlackbirdSc94
05-30-2009, 11:11 AM
The stock bottom end on these cars are very stout as has been proven many times, so long as of course nothing has been damanged by insufficient oil or over heating etc. Realize that internally these motors are already making well over 500 hp when your into the high 300 and 400 rwhp.

For now, you should just focus on refreshing the bearings etc and get a BHJ harmonic balancer on it.... thats IF your going to tear into it, and then get the car running good before you decide where you are going to go with it. There is countless cases even on these forums of how folks threw 1000's and 1000's at the car with upgrades and performance enhancements and the car runs like crap and doesn't produce any power.... just because of a $5.00 part they where told initially to replace. The scrap yards are full of examples like this.

As was mentioned, $1000 is not going to get you very far even with just a refreshing of the bottom end, and thats if your doing it yourself.

Focus on getting the car running good first.... focus on getting the car running good first..... focus on getting the car running good first

Fraser



:( I get where your coming from but I just didnt want to spend money "fixing" the motor just to end up taking brand new parts right back out in a couple of months or so but hey what can I do. anybody here ever purchase one of the rebuilt motors from SCpreformance.com, is it just the motor and you need all of your old accessorys and what the hell is the diffrences between a long block sc motor and a shortblock one:confused:

I was also looking at the dual program+stock computer chip they had for 389, whats the word on that because I think Im gonna go with that first as far as upgrades go, wise desicion or no???

whats a BHJ harmonic balancer do thats diffrent from a normal balancer??

BlackbirdSc94
05-30-2009, 08:06 PM
Ok last night my other car got impounded and this morning when I go to get the thing I get there and my damn sound system is gone:mad: amp and subs just gone with no signs of forced entry or rush job, I think the tow truck guy did it myself but anyway, I dont want to start putting stuff back into that car so someone can see it again later and get my twice.

So I was wondering just how much work could be done on my motor for about 1000 and what would you do first, I really need to beef up the bottom end, I want it to be able to take 4-500 hp does anyone have parts suggestions and where to get them

lots of good advice but nobody ever answered my question????

90MN12
05-30-2009, 08:54 PM
your gonna have to through a lot more than just 1000 even for stock rebuild unless u buy parts and do urself. contact xr7dave by emailing him. his email info is in his posts. he builds engines and does and sells many things. for what ur expecting(even future plans), some of the big dogs that have put some serious cash into their sc's have about 400 RWHP. some have more hp. And most with an AR on it are the ones with a lot of hp.. my future plan is to get some good heads. the ones I want are gonna be over 1600. Then there is the cam and related parts to go with that for it to work good. Prolly another 1000 to 1500, not installed. And that's without talking about all the nice things i'd like to do for the bottom end. bhj holds it together better than the stocker. Better for when u have a better than stock application since extra power helps it go bad faster and if it breaks installed its a very fun time fixing it. Just some ranting of info but email david dalke (xr7dave) with what you have to spend and what you'd like. other info out there. the Search is ur friend.