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birdlessmuz
06-01-2009, 05:02 PM
what are the best upgrade dollar for dollar? i just bought a 89 sc 5 speed no clue of what gears? and im building up some cash and would like the groups opinion on where to spend money, and tips and tricks to a better sc.


how do you know what gears your running? is there a tag? v.i.n help?

Melon
06-01-2009, 05:19 PM
Being a 5spd, you've got 2.73 gears. I believe there is a tag on the pumpkin itself, and probably something on the door jamb sticker about the axle code. Getting a 3.27 rear end from an auto SC will certainly wake up yours. And you can probably find one for pretty reasonable.

An intercooler upgrade is always nice, upgraded exhaust is a must, blower pulley, and a BHJ balancer are probably the top 4 mods that come to mind. The balancer doesn't really help performance, but the factory harmonic balancer is known to fail. Being an 89, upgrading to a 94/95 supercharger and plenum would also do some good.

-Melon

thunderkid84
06-01-2009, 09:10 PM
it really depends on what you want to do with the car. and what hp goal you want to be at. 250 ? 300 ?

decide that and then we can decide whats best for you.

Mike8675309
06-01-2009, 09:13 PM
what are the best upgrade dollar for dollar? i just bought a 89 sc 5 speed no clue of what gears? and im building up some cash and would like the groups opinion on where to spend money, and tips and tricks to a better sc.


how do you know what gears your running? is there a tag? v.i.n help?

Replace the balancer with BHJ. Kind of expensive, but does save you in the long run.
New down tubes, new cats, and new exhaust all the way back.
late model (94/95) blower
cam
heads


maybe something in between.

Kurt K
06-01-2009, 10:28 PM
underdrive pulleys

XR7 Dave
06-02-2009, 09:56 AM
Best upgrade hands down is a 94 blower, preferably ported. If that is out of reach then a ported early model with some coated rotors and a 10% pulley. But that would probably cost as much as the 94 blower so....

LukewarmSteak
06-02-2009, 10:11 AM
i say that the absolute best upgrade *dollar for dollar* is a fan on thyour intercooler...

you can't beat this upgrade... you can get a sweet fan from princess auto for $3.00

birdlessmuz
06-02-2009, 02:04 PM
thanks for your input guys

Toms-SC
06-02-2009, 03:26 PM
I'd argue the best upgrade is replacing your head gaskets and head studs before they explode. Everything after that is gravy. :)

brandywine11297
06-02-2009, 03:35 PM
i say that the absolute best upgrade *dollar for dollar* is a fan on thyour intercooler...

you can't beat this upgrade... you can get a sweet fan from princess auto for $3.00

whats the part number or a name. i will get one if its that cheap

birdlessmuz
06-02-2009, 04:02 PM
motor was completely rebuilt less than 3000 miles ago, i have a thread called need your opinion that has all reciepts and parts but thank you for your input

DriftingThunder
06-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Replace the balancer with BHJ. Kind of expensive, but does save you in the long run.
New down tubes, new cats, and new exhaust all the way back.
late model (94/95) blower
cam
heads


maybe something in between.

I mostly agree with this, but a 255 lph fuel pump should be added before heads and cam. I'm still on the stock balancer though. :eek: But I am hoping to pick up a BHJ very soon! Exhaust is extremely important. Hell even if you don't plan to really mod your car, you should definitely get a higher-flow exhaust to help preserve your head gaskets!

If you have a 5-speed car gears are an excellent idea. 3.08/3.27 are generally the most favored options regardless of the car being '89-'93 or '94/'95, despite the similarity of a 3.55 on a late M5R2 with a 3.27 on an early M5R2. I think 3.08 on a late M5R2 is a bad idea, but can't say from experience, it's just based on how VASTLY wide the 2.73 is.

My car had some mild intake mods and those don't really seem to do anything pre-cam/heads. OD pulley on a '94/'95 blower with a stock fuel pump is a waste! They add low torque but they will make your car very slow up top. :p Fuel pumps are a must if you ask me. Even with a fuel pump, I would just stick with the stock pulley, the earlier stock pulley, or a 5% OD until you have better gear for cooling. The 10% on a non-ported '94/'95 blower just makes gobs of extra heat. Oh and belt slippage! Dear god the belt slippage! You may as well have a turbo because you will be looking at that kind of boost lag, and I am not exaggerating.

I am not a fan of IC fans, they can be cheap but they usually add more weight than they are worth imo and if you are doing much more than idling around town, they don't do anything but help dissipate heat between runs at the track. Just use ice!

Underdrive pulleys are questionable. They aren't really expensive but they also don't do a whole lot. They are supposedly high up there on the dollar/hp chart, but I don't own a set myself so I can't say much with validity.

Snow Performance chemical intercooler is a good place to put your money is it not? I don't have one yet but I've been really wanting one for over a year now.

A wet nitrous kit is always appealing. 50-75 hp? I don't generally like nitrous myself but I won't say it isn't a good option for going fast faster.

fturner
06-02-2009, 07:01 PM
On a 5-spd, stay the stock gears, especially the earlier years. Anything else makes 1st gear virtually useless. I've read nothing but complaints from people trying to run 3.27's with a 5spd. I've also been running a 5spd for a few days, and judging how fast 1st gear ends with stock rear end, I'd hate to think what it would be like racing the car with 3.27's... that red line will be coming up very fast.

IC fan is a good bonus even with a single IC, but especially if you have a DIC and /or running any kind of OD. Just cruising around in town without romping on the car can push ACT's up over 120F and the computer will pull timing out. With DIC's I've seen as high as 150 and more which can equate to 4 and more degrees of timing getting yanked, and you haven't gone into boost yet. High ACT's make detonation more likely so the knock sensor will be kicking in and removing up to 8 more degrees of timing..... ever wonder why our cars are slugs on hot humid days. IC fan doesn't add horsepower, just prevents losing it.

As Dave Dalke said, a 94/95 blower nicely ported with at most 5% OD on it is the best bang for the buck. The stock IC can handle it with a fan on it....

As mentioned... get a 255FI fuel pump. If you get a chip and tune, then you'd be safe with the stock injectors. You start adding on more upgrades though, then its injector upgrade time.

The stock intake system and IC tubes etc are more than adequate for the task. On the exhaust, replace the resonator at the minimal. For a car that is mostly stock, the rest of the system is adequate.

Your not going to have a huge power'd car, but it'll have some more get-up-n-go. I'd estimate with the above only you'd probably sit around 225rwhp.

Fraser

19TbirdSC91
06-02-2009, 07:41 PM
I am not a fan of IC fans, they can be cheap but they usually add more weight than they are worth imo and if you are doing much more than idling around town, they don't do anything but help dissipate heat between runs at the track. Just use ice!

The little 8" IC fan doesn't weigh enough to worry about adding weight to the car. Dalke told me a while back that the fan will generally take about .1 off your 1/4 mile time. Seems like a decent cheap mod to me, especially keeping the ACT's down some.

Sean

89SCBoosted
06-02-2009, 08:35 PM
Gears, hands down best mod yet, i have an AOD, just installed richmond 3.73's, new posi clutches and a 93' lincoln mark 8 drive shaft, what a difference, easily half a second faster in the 1/4....

k_schutte
06-02-2009, 09:14 PM
i say that the absolute best upgrade *dollar for dollar* is a fan on thyour intercooler...

you can't beat this upgrade... you can get a sweet fan from princess auto for $3.00

only thing i seen on princessauto.com where some tiny little fans like 3" X 3" or smaller...?


If nothing else, you can get a 1550CFM, 8" fan for like $35~ or so shipped...

I hav e a link for you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8%22-1550-CFM-Push%2fPull-Slim%2fThin-Radiator-Fan+Mount_W0QQitemZ200347515150QQcmdZViewItem

LukewarmSteak
06-02-2009, 10:30 PM
If nothing else, you can get a 1550CFM, 8" fan for like $35~ or so shipped...
I hav e a link for you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8%22-1550-CFM-Push%2fPull-Slim%2fThin-Radiator-Fan+Mount_W0QQitemZ200347515150QQcmdZViewItem

sweet fan... it's only costs the manufacturer $1.20 to make... but $35.00 isn't a bad price for it's output... buy it!

DriftingThunder
06-02-2009, 10:37 PM
The little 8" IC fan doesn't weigh enough to worry about adding weight to the car. Dalke told me a while back that the fan will generally take about .1 off your 1/4 mile time. Seems like a decent cheap mod to me, especially keeping the ACT's down some.

Sean

I dunno, my double IC had a fan but I took it off. The one I had was several pounds. .1 off the ET though? I dunno about that one hehe... not to discredit the Dalke, but I can only see that happening on a basically stock car. Anything faster than 14's and I don't think you'll see a gain really. But who really knows? Probably no one.

Mike8675309
06-02-2009, 10:41 PM
sweet fan... it's only costs the manufacturer $1.20 to make... but $35.00 isn't a bad price for it's output... buy it!

Just remember, that number is almost certainly at 0 pressure. Fans that size run under pressure around 300-400cfm

fturner
06-02-2009, 10:52 PM
I dunno, my double IC had a fan but I took it off. The one I had was several pounds. .1 off the ET though? I dunno about that one hehe... not to discredit the Dalke, but I can only see that happening on a basically stock car. Anything faster than 14's and I don't think you'll see a gain really. But who really knows? Probably no one.

The datalogs I have are showing what the difference is. When ACT's hit 120F timing starts getting pulled and by the time its at 180F its pulling a full 8 degrees. On my car when ACT's hit 147F I started getting detonation and had a full 8 degrees of timing pulled from the knock sensor.

Lets see, at 4000 rpm's the timing will be about 24 degrees, now lets take off the 4 degrees of timing from the ACT's and thats 20 degrees... now the knock sensor kicks in and thats another 8 degrees so now I'm heading down the track with only 12 degrees of timing.

With the stock chin spoiler etc, you have to be doing 87mph to get a balanced air flow through the IC to level of the ACT temps..... and we're only talking leveling it off not bringing the temps back down. Now say you're in the staging lanes with ACT's sitting at 150F. Take a shot down the track and you'll see 180F or higher easy and have to hit 87mph to level that temp off.... and starting out with 150F means you are getting timing pulled even before you launch the car and probably detonating right at that point to.

Now put a fan on that IC. In the staging lane you'd see maybe 110F top. Blast down the track and hit the magic speed and you'll be sitting say at 140F.. alot less timing pulled and not into the range of detonation.

I've got all the datalogs to prove the above... the IC fan is a critical upgrade to manage the ACT temps, and ultimately gain in racing conditions.

As for weight.... I don't think my IC fan weighs more than 1/2 a pound.

Fraser

thunderkid84
06-03-2009, 06:18 AM
fraser,

was all that testing done with your late model ?

and at what OD, in any ?

DriftingThunder
06-03-2009, 06:39 AM
That's hot info man, I gladly stand corrected! But now I have to buy another fan! Mine weighed several pounds though, so I'll have to find something lighter. I still have all the wiring for it on the car.

Any suggestions for a better fan then? Using a Stan Wodzisz double IC, and this is what my current mounting tabs are lookin' like if it's any matter:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k211/driftingthunder/0603090651.jpg

Forum search is in progress.

fturner
06-03-2009, 09:09 AM
fraser,

was all that testing done with your late model ?

and at what OD, in any ?

With the late model before and after porting. stock pulley, 5% and 10%, SIC (stock with and without a fan) and DIC (just recent addon and looking promising). Stock chin spoiler and with the MP chin spoiler (a GOOD upgrade there as the ACT level off speed with the SIC dropped to about 75mph so the temps didn't quite climb so high).

Next up after some more logging with the DIC under various conditions will be running the car with a short a/c condensor.

Spinning Wheels and SuperCoupe Performance both sell good 8" fans. You also need to look at the front of the car and how the air is being "ramped" into the DIC. If there is nothing there then the air will more than likely just go around the DIC so you'll get less benefit. I'm using a stock rubber boot trimmed down to fit for now, and the car while cruising averaged about 5 to 10 degrees above ambient on a 200+ mile drive.

Fraser

thunderkid84
06-03-2009, 09:20 AM
thats cool.

i've got a 94 ported as far as it can go and its got 10% od on it. im going to take 5% off tho after my recent upset at the track. plus i have a FMIC that catches some good air.

i can definitely feel the difference on a hot day compared to a nice cool one.

fturner
06-03-2009, 10:23 AM
I just noticed in the pic of the DIC there is no side panels covering the gap between the IC's.... If there isn't, you might want to look at getting some put on.

Fraser

DriftingThunder
06-03-2009, 02:40 PM
Yeah, it originally had some sort of high heat tape to cover the gap, but when I took a wire brush wheel to the whole thing to get the black paint off I had to take them off. I plan on covering the gaps, but thanks for lookin' out!

EDIT: I just realized the quality of that pic is superb for a cell phone camera.

birdlessmuz
06-03-2009, 02:58 PM
93 mark driveshaft you say does that bolt in with out mods?