V8 swap questions

Pacman

Registered User
My friend blew up his moded sc and decided to ditch the sc motor all together and do a big block swap. We found a 460 freshly built shortblock with forged crank eagle forged rods and keith black dome pistons DOVEII heads with new stem seals and valve job and a new SFI balancer for $1000! not bad at all i thought! guy had it built and never paid for it.. Anyway from what we can find out we will need the following

Manual master CYL early bronco
replace rag joing with a u joint on steering shaft
fuel cel
relocated battery to trunk
fox body swap headers
fox body swap radiator
c6 tranny

He's in no hurry to finish the build and wants to collect all the parts to do it this winter. Anyway his friend GAVE him a low mile EFI 302 out of a 90's crown vic. nothing wrong with the motor he used car for demo derby and has a SB chevy he runs in all his cars so he just didnt need it. What we are wondering is what all is needed to convert the efi 302 to carb so we can throw it in the car and run it until all the 460 stuff is scrounged? Will it not bolt right up to an AOD? We found a edelbrock performer intake on craigslist cheap and i've got a good edelbrock 600 carb laying around couldnt we just get T-bird v8 motor mounts a vac advance distributor and run with it? He's wanting to just make some downtubes from the 302 to hook up to the SC exhaust. And we have all the accercory brackets/accecories from the 302 can we just run the serpintine belt and use the alternator etc from the 302 in the car? Already have mechanical guages (temp and water). I tried to convince him to keep the 3.8 but it was built and has always had issues he's just tired of the frustration and unreliability of the motor. I feel the pain one of my SC's is a bascket case the other one is not to bad. Anyway there will probably be alot of SC parts in the forsale section here soon. And it sounds like the bigblock is going to be totaly nasty when its all said and done. Most of the people we run around with have SC'd stangs and big block chevy cars i think he's just tired of not being able to run with them. I am quite sure a built 460 will hang in there pretty good :) if i had the funds id consider it myself for one of my cars. Anyway any information would be appreceated on this. I found some stuff but nothing about going carb.
 
your list is good for now.

Some say that I am the king of this swap...I have done my fair share of these swaps. Matter of fact I beleive I was the first one to get this done and still close the hood... This alone is a feat as this engine is a bit taller than the 3.8... If you need any help feel free to ask away.... Good luck and if I had my choice, I would just go to the big block right away.....Rich
 
He wanted to straight to the BB but he needs to take his mustang off the road for a few weeks to fix some stuff and needs to have the SC going while he does that so his wife as somthing to drive to work.
 
He started collecting parts and so far has:

60k 5.0 roller motor
GT40p heads
5.0 shorty headers
Motorsport E303 camshaft
2800rpm b&M tourque convertor
Ford HEI distributor (sweet unit uses GM HEI module/coil/cap/rotor 1 wire hookup)
650 electric choke edelbrock carb
Performer RPM intake manifold
Malory BY-pass low pressure AFPR
He's got some kinda deal going on a 3.73 center section.

Goals are for 280/300hp on motor ??? on the bottle.

We have the AC compressor and all accecories/brackets off the 5.0 what would it take to make the AC work with this setup?

He's hoping to get performance equal to the SC motor without the reliability/tunning isues
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to just install the 460 based motor instead of messing with the 5.0 swap ? If not, your going to be doing several things twice.

David
 
>If not, your going to be doing several things twice.

Practice makes perfect.

And besides, engine swaps are defined by how much time is wasted in the process....right? Otherwise, where's the fun? :)
 
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From what i understand he wants to still DD this car for the next couple years until he gets out of trade school. 5.0 swap was way cheaper and AOD could be kept. The SC engine was breaking down on him constantly and he got fed up with the unriliability. I know how it is i have 2 of these things and somtimes wonder why. They are terrible DD cars as far as reliability goes.
 
lets go big block..

From what i understand he wants to still DD this car for the next couple years until he gets out of trade school. 5.0 swap was way cheaper and AOD could be kept. The SC engine was breaking down on him constantly and he got fed up with the unriliability. I know how it is i have 2 of these things and somtimes wonder why. They are terrible DD cars as far as reliability goes.

Now lets look at this again.... You can drive a big block daily, I have and still do in the summer. You can drop a stock 460 in there with a C6 trans and get 400 rwh with a few add ons to the stocker. Now if you go to a 514 "crate" you can pick your power from 500 to 700 rwhp. Now keep in mind the more you look for the less it will be a daily driver...
Now if you want to go crazy as I did on one you can go to a 557 with trick heads and a few other things and you will be NORTH of 700 rwhp without making it just a strip car. I drive a 557 on the street a lot and it is FUN FUN FUN..... People don't know what happens when you hit the gas and leave them sitting...
Now for the "I don't think so" group out there... Just keep in mind that you can always add a blower to the mix and really go crazy... The "World fastest street car" is a thunderbird running a 557" with a "R3" added to it just for kicks.....
So as you can see it is very easy to do this swap and you can even run cast iron manifolds if you want to keep the cost down.. The thing is a simple thing to tune, with a carb and a good dist. :D
 
Edited: What I posted would cause an argument...

...so all I'm going to say is the 3.8SC motor is a very stout reliable motor even built up and its sad to see how some folks just trash it completely when they didn't have a good experience with it. I'll drive my car as a DD and hit the track running low 13's, high 12's every weekend without a second thought, and get 32+mpg while enjoying a nice luxurious drive through the country with my beautiful wife.

Fraser
 
Likewise....my 92 has been a DD for YEARS and the body has over 250,000 miles on it with the motor having over 140,000 miles. It dynoed last year at essentially 300 RWHP and does a 13.5 sec. quarter mile time. I do not regularly race it but I don't baby it on the road either. In all that time it has yet to leave me stranded except for a DIS Module failure that was easily fixed. But I do have it maintained regularly and try to be proactive in the maintenace items performed as opposed to reactive (fixing things before they break as opposed to waiting for things to happen).
 
Tell Jacob that I could've sold him my 90SC with rebuilt AOD and headgaskets done within the past two years for barely more than what he paid for the 460! :cool::)

Sounds like a ton of work! I might do a swap for a 351 someday just for the fun of it, but the 3.8 treats me well enough for daily driving (we'll see if this changes after the new setup is in...:rolleyes:)
 
to clear up some things..

Edited: What I posted would cause an argument...

...so all I'm going to say is the 3.8SC motor is a very stout

Fraser

I got to read what you first put and that was good as well.
The point that I have made all along is that if you want raw power and still want something that you can drive daily then the big block swap is the way to go. People have cryed about weight, fitting and a whole lot of things. To tell the truth, it is wat easier to work on than the S.C. 3.8. Anyone can tune it to run. Parts are everywhere and cheap. Plus the look on someones face when the hood goes up is priceless at best...
I will give you the one downfall, fuel milage is not what the 3.8 gets... With a stock 460 you are looking at a best of 20 mpg "IF" you set it up for milage. Now if you set it up for playing look for something in the mid 14 to 18 range...
Now if you are crazy like myself and do a 514 for pump gas you will be 15mpg at best with most of it at the 12-13 mpg range... Now my 557" bird even running pump gas will run around 10 to 12 mpg. This is hard to really get a true # on as most of the time I have my foot in it and the tires are spinning. To show you how bad this combo is I destroyed a set of ET streets in less than 1000 miles... too much power for the street, or too heavy of a right foot, or maybe both....
Thats it from me for now.....Rich
 
this swap is eazy to do..

This is a very easy swap to do,I did the first one in less than a week working on it a few hours a day outside no less. Best part you can do this without cutting on the car or making it so it can't go back to stock.. You unplug the wiring for the engine drop in your engine and wire up the dist add some gas lines and it runs... The only thing that has to be made are the mounts that go from the frame to the engine.. You can even use cast iron exhaust manifolds if you want to be cheap..
The rad and the headers if you want to go more are simple, they are from a "FOX" big block swap, with one header tube being modded to fit...
So all in all this is simple easy and fun to do. Now as far as working on it , I need less than 15 min's to swap plugs on one. The water pump can be swapped in the parking lot of the hotel with simple hand tools in an hour. I know this as that is what it took one time at an event in Elkart Id.
So as you can see these are easy, simple, and fun to do and drive....Rich
 
I got to read what you first put and that was good as well.
The point that I have made all along is that if you want raw power and still want something that you can drive daily then the big block swap is the way to go. People have cryed about weight, fitting and a whole lot of things. To tell the truth, it is wat easier to work on than the S.C. 3.8. Anyone can tune it to run. Parts are everywhere and cheap. Plus the look on someones face when the hood goes up is priceless at best...
I will give you the one downfall, fuel milage is not what the 3.8 gets... With a stock 460 you are looking at a best of 20 mpg "IF" you set it up for milage. Now if you set it up for playing look for something in the mid 14 to 18 range...
Now if you are crazy like myself and do a 514 for pump gas you will be 15mpg at best with most of it at the 12-13 mpg range... Now my 557" bird even running pump gas will run around 10 to 12 mpg. This is hard to really get a true # on as most of the time I have my foot in it and the tires are spinning. To show you how bad this combo is I destroyed a set of ET streets in less than 1000 miles... too much power for the street, or too heavy of a right foot, or maybe both....
Thats it from me for now.....Rich

Rich,

I hear you !! My 347 turbo gets around 11 mpg on average, but it's lots of fun. BTW, my dart block 347 turbo motor is no more reliable than my SC motor. Faster the car the more stuff your are going to break.

David
 
Soild axle swap?

Hey Rich,
Ever swap out the IRS for a solid axle in a MN12? (for use with a BBF)
If so, what set up would you recommend?

Picked up a bunch of 460 parts (assembly req'd) and just happen to be working on getting another T56.
MikeH
 
My main point being is the sc motor isn't as bad as some folks make it out to be as stated early in this post where the car can never be used as a daily driver. Its just as reliable as any other motor when done right and maintained properly.

I do agree if you want blistering power in the high hundreds you need to go to an 8, and I won't dispute that. Heck, I was thinking of converting a '94 LX at one point.

I can drop jaws as well when folks come up saying no way can the car go that fast and then they look under the hood to see the only obvious mod is a throttle body on a v6 in a car that weighs almost 4000lbs :eek:. A v8, eh, your expected to go fast and if your not then you haven't done something right.... a factory looking v6 isn't expected to get out of its own way, let alone anything else, but its out there holding its own and unexpectantly "beating" other cars including v8's..... Now THAT to me is priceless....

Anyway, back to the program.

Fraser
 
From what i understand he has had ALOT of electrical gremlins in the engine harness. Plus he is tired of it being such a pain to do anything too. I dont really blame the guy. I think right now he wants to get in the 300hp range with somthing easy to tune/work on that sounds good and is reliable. He tried that with the SC motor and it never happened.
 
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