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DLF
08-22-2009, 05:22 PM
I've recently installed a Flaming River stainless steel steering joint to replace the stock rag joint. You can do this to either make more room for headers or just to tighten up the steering a bit.

The p/n is FR2515DD. You also need about 2 inches of DD bar, p/n FR1850SS, which, unfortunately, is only sold in 18" lengths. I've installed two of these, one in my SC and the other in my LSC. After cutting a 2" section of the DD bar, a hole needs to be drilled for the steering shaft retaining bolt (which I changed to a 10mm x 1.5mm x 25mm stainless steel button head bolt, for even more clearance) and two dimples need to be drilled for the set screws that retain the joint to the DD bar.

If anyone else wants to do this, I have about 14" of DD bar left. ;)

baer198
08-22-2009, 09:09 PM
That is nice man!

XxSlowpokexX
08-23-2009, 12:32 AM
Thats what I did with my other car when I did my headers

baer198
08-23-2009, 12:54 AM
? now if you do this mod, could you use just about any of the mustang v6 headers. I really don't think i can afford 800+ bucks for the kooks.

DLF
08-23-2009, 12:56 AM
No, I don't think that this will allow the Mustang headers to fit.

Toms-SC
08-23-2009, 01:43 AM
It should defiantly be investigated.

fastsc92
08-23-2009, 11:16 AM
It should defiantly be investigated.

I can def. vouch for not being able to use the mustang longtubes regardless of what steering shaft you use. The longtubes will hit the block and bellhousing, at least they did in my 5-speed. The stock rag joint clears fine, and the #4 primary isn't the issue.

89XR7TD
08-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Great info Doug!!!!

Tom

baer198
08-23-2009, 12:31 PM
That suck's, I was trying to be cheap. they do have good prices on the stang headers at summit.

DLF
08-25-2009, 01:06 PM
Several people have asked if I'd make them a complete joint, and 1 member has already paid for one.

I'll make complete SS (unpolished) joints, ready to install, including the button head bolt for $140 shipped (lower 48).

PM me if you're interested.

DLF
09-01-2009, 11:46 PM
Sold 3, got enough DD bar for 4 more.

DLF
09-10-2009, 01:00 PM
2 pieces left...

Or, if you don't want the entire joint, I'll sell the DD stub, drilled, with the button head bolt for $35 shipped (lower 48).

Mercutio
09-14-2009, 10:13 PM
I'll take one...PM me please for payment & shipping stuff.

DLF
09-14-2009, 11:07 PM
I'll take one...PM me please for payment & shipping stuff.

PM Sent.

Only one left!

Thomas A
09-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Just wondering if this might help with the "dead" feeling I when cornering. It feels as if the entire steering system is separate from the rest of the car when driving on an exit/entrance ramp, or a long sweeping curve. Perhaps I should make a full post in the tech section, but was curious to you thoughts having driven with this joint.

I also have 18" of DD bar in the basement. I haven't got around to using it yet ;)

Thomas

DLF
09-17-2009, 08:27 PM
Just wondering if this might help with the "dead" feeling I when cornering. It feels as if the entire steering system is separate from the rest of the car when driving on an exit/entrance ramp, or a long sweeping curve. Perhaps I should make a full post in the tech section, but was curious to you thoughts having driven with this joint.

I also have 18" of DD bar in the basement. I haven't got around to using it yet ;)

Thomas

Along with good steering rack bushings, and a tight front suspension....

There's very little slop in either my SC or LSC now.

The answer would depend upon the condition of your stock rag joint.

But is your DD bar stainless? :cool:

Thomas A
09-17-2009, 08:30 PM
Yes, SS is the only way to go! ;)

I've been meaning to post something in the tech section for some opinions, so I should do that. That would be one of the last things to replace steering/suspension wise on the car, so maybe it is the missing link I am looking for?? :confused:

Thomas

DLF
09-17-2009, 08:31 PM
Yes, SS is the only way to go! ;)

I've been meaning to post something in the tech section for some opinions, so I should do that. That would be one of the last things to replace steering/suspension wise on the car, so maybe it is the missing link I am looking for?? :confused:

Thomas

Unless your rack is the problem....

Thomas A
09-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Could be. That is about the only thing I didn't replace. Maybe I should have done that when I had everything else apart! :rolleyes: Oh well, I needed something to do this winter anyway.

Thomas

DLF
09-17-2009, 11:11 PM
I have one piece remaining...

DLF
09-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Sale pending....

SCTBIRD1173
09-22-2009, 08:10 AM
PM sent about DD stub

DLF
09-22-2009, 12:17 PM
PM sent about DD stub

PM replied to.

Last piece is SOLD.

However, I've got some more DD bar on the way, and will be able to sell more joints in a week or so...... Price will be going up to $140 shipped (lower 48).

DLF
10-09-2009, 01:39 AM
If anyone's interested, I can make more of these, with a 2-3 day turnaround.

$140 Shipped (lower 48)

DLF
10-12-2009, 12:09 AM
Stainless Steel Steering Joint Kits may be purchased HERE (http://home.comcast.net/~dlfraleigh/Delrin/FRSS.html).

DLF
11-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Got a hold of 3 feet of DD bar, so I can make a bunch of these.

I've got 1 boxed up and ready to ship.

k_schutte
12-01-2009, 06:11 PM
You can use any 3/4" x 3/4" - 36 spline joint and smooth 3/4" DD shaft I would assume?

DLF
12-01-2009, 06:33 PM
You can use any 3/4" x 3/4" - 36 spline joint and smooth 3/4" DD shaft I would assume?

Probably, I prefer the stainless steel Flaming River pieces.

k_schutte
12-01-2009, 08:19 PM
Probably, I prefer the stainless steel Flaming River pieces.

for sure the FR/SS would be the best but I am cheap LOL... found the joint and 24" of rod for like $40~ but of course that isn't stainless or anything, if I planned to keep my car I would buy one of your kits but since I am trying to sell I will probably just cheap out on it.

Thanks for the reply

quick35th
12-03-2009, 01:50 AM
Its probably very important to note this on here. Flaming River recommends the use of thread lock to lock on the set screws into the DD shaft. Even with thread lock I know several people that have had theirs loosen up on them. What I found is the only way to prevent this from happening entirely is to weld the DD shaft to the SS joint. I have it done this way on my race car. Just food for thought.

Shane

DLF
12-03-2009, 09:06 AM
Its probably very important to note this on here. Flaming River recommends the use of thread lock to lock on the set screws into the DD shaft. Even with thread lock I know several people that have had theirs loosen up on them. What I found is the only way to prevent this from happening entirely is to weld the DD shaft to the SS joint. I have it done this way on my race car. Just food for thought.

Shane

I use Red Loctite 262 on every joint kit I make and even coat the set screw and nut that secure the joint to the splined steering shaft. So far, no issues.

http://home.comcast.net/~dlfraleigh/Delrin/FRSSKit.JPG

XR7 Dave
12-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I agree that on a street driven vehicle, the method of using set screws to hold all that stuff is marginal at best (though I realize this is how the part was designed by Flaming River). After a significant amount of street time they simply worked loose in my case. Welding on a steering component carries with it an inherent risk also, but one should be aware regardless, that it is possible for them to loosen, even with red locktite.

bowez
12-04-2009, 02:04 PM
Been thinking of that too, and thought of using a roll pin, hoping it would fail only in a wreck in similar manner as the stock setup.

k_schutte
12-06-2009, 08:52 PM
rather than just using hte dimples and set screws couldn't you just get some slightly longer bolts and drill/tap a little bit into the rod andthread lock the crap out of it?

bowez
12-06-2009, 10:53 PM
Then the possible designed failure point would be gone unless you used a grade 3 bolt and Nylock nut

DLF
12-07-2009, 12:22 AM
Then the possible designed failure point would be gone unless you used a grade 3 bolt and Nylock nut

The designed failure point for the steering shaft is under the dash, not the rag joint.

quick35th
12-07-2009, 07:17 PM
The designed failure point for the steering shaft is under the dash, not the rag joint.

What failure point are you talking about under the dash? The failure point for the steering shaft that I know about is under the hood, the section that the rag joint bolts to telescopes (pushes inward) in the event of a very hard frontal crash that bends the kmember towards the cabin.

Shane

S_Mazza
12-07-2009, 07:36 PM
What failure point are you talking about under the dash? The failure point for the steering shaft that I know about is under the hood, the section that the rag joint bolts to telescopes (pushes inward) in the event of a very hard frontal crash that bends the kmember towards the cabin.

Shane

Yes, it telescopes by a few inches, but you would probably also get a geometric collapsing effect because there is a U-joint under the dash already and no bearing at the firewall. So it would probably give you a couple extra inches there as well.

DLF
12-08-2009, 12:13 AM
What failure point are you talking about under the dash? The failure point for the steering shaft that I know about is under the hood, the section that the rag joint bolts to telescopes (pushes inward) in the event of a very hard frontal crash that bends the kmember towards the cabin.

Shane

I'll take a picture tomorrow. There's a split in the shaft that is designed to fail just before the lower shaft bolts to the upper shaft under the dash.

DLF
12-08-2009, 01:22 PM
Here are the pics of the "Break-Away" joint in the lower shaft.

quick35th
12-08-2009, 01:43 PM
hmm I have never seen that piece before. Is it on new models? My 92 I do not think has it.

Shane

Ken Seegers
12-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Doug,
Do you still sell the DD by itself? If so, send me a price shipped to 19468.
Thanks
Ken

DLF
12-09-2009, 01:25 PM
Doug,
Do you still sell the DD by itself? If so, send me a price shipped to 19468.
Thanks
Ken

Check your PM's

95badbird
12-09-2009, 01:38 PM
nice....those look really familiar ;)

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/95badbird/246973.jpg

ricardoa1
04-12-2010, 03:53 PM
How much clearence do you guesstimate that the solid joint and DD bar will give you I am in need of header clearence as I am backing to rubbing steering shaft and my good old MAC shorties. :rolleyes: just enough do it does not rub. Not sure if making the DD piece slightly longer will change the angle enough to clear.

DLF
04-12-2010, 04:30 PM
How much clearence do you guesstimate that the solid joint and DD bar will give you I am in need of header clearence as I am backing to rubbing steering shaft and my good old MAC shorties. :rolleyes: just enough do it does not rub. Not sure if making the DD piece slightly longer will change the angle enough to clear.

The joint will only provide additional clearance if the stock rag joint is the problem. Additional length of the DD shaft won't gain any more clearance as it will only further compress the shaft along the plane it's already in, not change the angle.

ricardoa1
04-12-2010, 04:36 PM
I agree, how much longer the FR joint VS the stock one? can I pick up some lengh on the rack side of the joint? I think if the rack stub and rack stub side of the joint is longer then stock it might move the angle a bit and give a little clearence? I guess I dont know what do do. Maybe offset rack bushings?

DLF
04-12-2010, 04:44 PM
I agree, how much longer the FR joint VS the stock one? can I pick up some lengh on the rack side of the joint? I think if the rack stub and rack stub side of the joint is longer then stock it might move the angle a bit and give a little clearence? I guess I dont know what do do. Maybe offset rack bushings?

I no longer have any stock rag joints to compare with the FR joint.

The pivot point on the FR joint is 1.35" from the C/L of the set screw which engages the rack stub in the "U" groove.

DLF
04-12-2010, 06:29 PM
I also have a little problem with the shaft rubbing, and have a couple of ideas to solve the problem. However, I won't be able to take a look at it until next week.

I'll let you know what I come up with.

ricardoa1
04-12-2010, 11:11 PM
Please do. I though the early style MM were going to be much better for this but I feel like its the same. I do have the taller aftermarket motormounts, I think autozone now makes the stock height solid ones. But dont want to go that far into it unless its my last resource. I think if the joint was further away from the steering rack stub it would change the angle on the joint and move the telescopic rod over a tad bit.

I dont want two joints like the V8 guys have done, I dont need that much clearence and plus it would create issues with the firewall boot if its moved too much, those V8 guys with the double joints look like deleted the boots and made a hole way over in the firewall hole.

DLF
04-12-2010, 11:31 PM
I think if the joint was further away from the steering rack stub it would change the angle on the joint and move the telescopic rod over a tad bit.


I don't think there's a good way to change the pivot distance from the rack.

I do think that a modified lower steering shaft would solve the problem, and that's what I'm going to look into.

ricardoa1
04-13-2010, 06:30 PM
I don't think there's a good way to change the pivot distance from the rack.

I do think that a modified lower steering shaft would solve the problem, and that's what I'm going to look into.


Are you thinking of cutting the hollow DD shaft down so the bolt boss is higher, near the firewall. And then use a longer piece of DD bar to reach it? That will def make more room but I think I need a little more clearence on mine but worth a shot I guess.

DLF
04-13-2010, 08:29 PM
Are you thinking of cutting the hollow DD shaft down so the bolt boss is higher, near the firewall. And then use a longer piece of DD bar to reach it? That will def make more room but I think I need a little more clearence on mine but worth a shot I guess.

That's one possibility, and if I do that, I'd also machine a slight neck in the DD bar near the interference point.

Or, I might just weld in a necked down piece of DD shaft at the problem point.

I'm going to take a quick look at it in the morning, to see what my options are.

DLF
04-14-2010, 06:14 PM
Here's a pic of where mine is rubbing. I'm going to take it apart tomorrow and see what I can figure out.

ricardoa1
04-14-2010, 06:30 PM
Mine rubs in several places, But at of last night, I went back in there and dented the headers some more and ground the flange a bit. Now dont get rubbing unless the car is making a right turn, where the engine actually moves over to the left even with the solid motormounts, I think I have the same mounts you have. I pried it with a screwdriver and I could move the engine with little force the engine kinda moves around left and right like Jello.

DLF
08-18-2010, 05:04 PM
I finally got around to solving this problem. I cut a 2" section out of the steering shaft and welded in a 3.5" piece of carbon steel DD shaft.

DLF
08-28-2010, 06:02 PM
And finally got it installed.

Been busy with some other things too. ;)

Mike8675309
08-30-2010, 10:00 AM
Do the headers move away from that location when the engine torques, or closer to the shaft? i.e. the clearance looks very tight.

DLF
08-30-2010, 11:37 AM
Do the headers move away from that location when the engine torques, or closer to the shaft? i.e. the clearance looks very tight.

Away, and yup, it's tight.

DLF
08-04-2011, 05:46 PM
I've made up another batch of these, get 'em while they're hot!

Click the link under my signature to purchase.

XxSlowpokexX
08-06-2011, 12:21 AM
cant afford right now but Im looking to throw my full lengths on now so if you have them in a few weeks..Im in

DLF
08-06-2011, 11:04 PM
2 have been sold.

SCDan35thANV
12-28-2011, 12:29 AM
Email Sent in regards to the DD bar.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

DLF
12-28-2011, 01:02 AM
Email Sent in regards to the DD bar.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

I replied.

sleeper bird
01-03-2012, 07:40 PM
i tell ya what you guys should be in r/d im impressed with yall's ingenuity cudos to you

RedFox
05-04-2013, 03:14 PM
This is a great solution which may improve steering feel on my track car.

My original unit is cracked and badly worn. On my daily driven SC without headers, can the stock rag joints still be purchased? I just checked with Ford and nothing is available.

Thanks.