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Toms-SC
08-24-2009, 06:19 PM
Hey all,

Looking for some success stories about battery relocation. Pictures would be great. Were you able to maintain the factory battery size? For NHRA, where did you mount your battery cut off switch?

Thanks

fastsc92
08-24-2009, 07:11 PM
I did mine. No pictures, but I can get some soon. I've been running it for about a year now. I used a stock sized battery for a 5-speed car, but I made my own aluminum battery box so it fits better than what you can buy.

NHRA requires the box to be sealed and vented (not those cheap jegs boxes) if using a lead/acid battery. Sealed batteries like optimas can be open, but must be secured. If using aluminum, the box must be a min of .032" in wall thickness. The battery must be secured in the box using a minimum of 1/4" dia. bolts (not j-hooks). The box must be secured separately from battery hold-down.

I used a DPST switch from long-acre racing, and made my own push-off level style switch which extends out the right rear tail-light and is removed when not at the track. I chose to not cut the alternator charging wire, but instead cut the ignition switch at the coil via a relay. The switch must be installed in the rear of the car and isolate the battery from everything else when disconnected in addition to killing the car.

For materials I used #2 welding cable with is much more flexable than the kits they sell, and I got it for cheap (in red and black). I'll have to dig up the company info. Total for all the parts was around $100.

Your best bet is to review the NHRA rules for a truck mounted battery. Anything else you need to know?

Toms-SC
08-24-2009, 07:20 PM
Yes, curious about the position of your box in the trunk. I'd love to see those pictures!

I picked up a Taylor's kit. Only issue with it is that the battery cable is not long enough. Sounds like welding cable is the way to go. I think it was this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TAY-48103/

fastsc92
08-24-2009, 07:30 PM
I think the reason why i didn't go with that box was because the stock battery didn't fit in there. They required a group 27 or something and that had less CCA than the group 58 stocker. Also, I was able to put the box on the right side of the car (nitrous bottle was on the left), just outside of the cover for the spare tire. The kill switch is mounted behind the tail light and tucked away nicely. I didn't think the box they sold fit where I wanted it to.

I think I orderd 20' of red cable, and 5' of black. Where I ran it, I had just enough to go from the starter solenoid, all the way down the drivers side of the car's interior, into the trunk and then over to the right side where it connects to the switch. I didn't have enough to go from the switch to the battery in red, so I used some black (about 9" worth). The ground goes from the battery, through the trunk floor and into the frame rail with a large self-tapping bolt.

The cable was Tri-star brand welding cable. It's got much more strands that the standard cabling so it more flexible and provides less resistance.

I'll get pictures tomorrow for you.

baer198
08-24-2009, 07:30 PM
if you do a search i know they make couplers for thick wirer.

91bird
08-24-2009, 07:49 PM
I relocated the battery in my car to the trunk this year. Haven't had any problems yet, Haven't driven it much though.
I just used an old plastic battery box that I had lying around and mounted it in the trunk on the passenger side behind the rear wheel well. Fit with no problems. I also used welding cable 1/0 that I got from a local supplier for a lot cheaper than the automotiv cable. I don't drive the car very often so I didn't think it would be a problem. I just picked up a battery dissconect switch today from Karbelt 45$ with tax Taylor Mastor Batery Dissconnect Switch # 1032. I did not realize that it had to be mounted on the outside of the car though. I alway's thought that my car had to be fast befroe I could make it look fast:cool:

Drew

Mike8675309
08-24-2009, 09:19 PM
Hey all,

Looking for some success stories about battery relocation. Pictures would be great. Were you able to maintain the factory battery size? For NHRA, where did you mount your battery cut off switch?

Thanks

The standard group size battery I had would not fit in the box I purchased. I purchased this kit from Summit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1231-K/?image=large I had to get a group 24F battery to fit that box like a glove. If I was to do it again I would get just the box, without the cable, as the cable they supply is only 20' long, and I found that to be really close in length. I ended up buying 25' of 1gauge positive cable from a local CarQuest. The cable I bought was higher quality with a thicker insulation than the stuff that came in the summit kit.

I used a moroso cut off switch good to 300amp with the moroso push/pull kit to make it into a lever operated. I had a steel plate made to mount the switch next to the battery box, and then bent some square aluminum tube to make the lever.

I am using a 250amp mega slow blow fuse and I used compression lug style cable ends.

I ran the cable from the battery location in the front as well as a pair of 12gauge wires to be the ignition cut along the underside of the car to the rear trunk and through some grommets that I mounted back there. I wrapped the wire with 3/4" split loom that has holes placed in it to allow any water that gets in to drain out. It's screwed to the bottom of the car with stainless steel 1" insulated clamps.

I'll have some completed pictures sometime in the next few days, as I'm just wrapping up the work on the car. the only thing I'm not sure of is the ground quality. I've mounted a ground terminal, but I'm not sure if that will be enough.

The main issue I have with welding cable is the jacket is not designed for exterior applications. I would be concerned that it may break down sooner than it should.

Here is one picture before I had run the cable:
http://media.motortopia.com/files/3211/album_2009_work/4a5a671ed1f48/tn_full_BatteryBoxandSwitch.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/434072)

racecougar
08-24-2009, 11:23 PM
Battery mount:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/racecougar/90%20XR7/interior/09090005.jpg

NHRA legal 0.040" thick aluminum rear firewall and package shelf:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/racecougar/90%20XR7/interior/subs3.jpg

Switch in "street" mode:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/racecougar/90%20XR7/interior/killswitch.jpg

Switch setup for the track:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/racecougar/90%20XR7/interior/killswitchpusher.jpg

I went with 2/0 gauge cable, used a Taylor switch (with four posts for controlling two seperate circuits), and made the rear firewall and package shelf, battery mount, switch mount, and push/pull rod setup.


Just for the sake of more info, this is direct from the 2004 NHRA Rulebook (I haven't got around to picking up a current one, but I don't believe that anything pertinent to this has changed):

"Any car with a relocated battery must be equipped with a master electrical cutoff, capable of stopping all electrical functions including ignition (must shut the engine off, as well as fuel pumps, etc.). The switch must be located on the rear of the vehicle, with the "off" position clearly marked. If the switch is of a "push / pull" type, then "push" must be the motion that shuts off the switch, and plastic or "keyed" typed switches are prohibited. Also, the battery must be completely sealed from the driver and/or driver compartment. This means a metal bulkhead must separate the trunk from the driver compartment, or the battery must be located in a sealed, metal box constructed of minimum .024 inch steel or .032 inch aluminum, or in an NHRA accepted plastic box. In cars with a conventional trunk, metal can simply be installed behind the rear seat and under the package tray to effectively seal the battery off from the driver. In a hatchback type vehicle the battery box is usually the easiest solution, since the alternative is to fabricate a bulkhead which seals to the hatch when closed. At present, Moroso is the only company which offers an NHRA accepted plastic battery box, part number 74050."

Nettlesd
08-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Here's mine.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/nettlesd/IMG_0049-2-1.jpg

Mike8675309
08-25-2009, 07:50 PM
Parts used in my remote battery setup.

Cast Copper Compression Lug Ends
www.remybattery.com
3-3/8"hole
2-1/2"hole

Moroso Super Duty Disconnect Switch
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-74102/
300 amp capacity

Moroso Push/Pull Battery Disconnect Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-74105/

Summit Remote Battery Kit NHRA complaint.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1231-K/
I recommend getting just the box next time. 20' of positive cable isn't enough.

Stainless Steel insulated clamps and wiring split loom from DelCity.
http://www.delcity.net/ (3/4" slotted loom with 7/8" clamps)

Thermo-Tec 13575 Adhesive Backed Heat Barrier
from Amazon.

LittlFuse 250amp Slo-Blo bolt down fuse and fuse holder.
From amazon

25 feet of 1-gauge battery cable from local CarQuest.
100 feet of 12gauge automotive wire for low resistance ignition cut out.

Numerous sheet metal screws

Rivnut type threaded rivets for mounting many things
From harbor freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1210

Grommets from Seals-It
http://www.sealsit.com/

For the ignition cut out I'm spliced into the 12v+ line going to the coil pack. When you push the lever to shut off, battery power is cut, and the power to the coil pack is cut, disabling the ignition and shutting off the car.

Note that my cable and hose for the intercooler are running right under the car. For now, that's how it will be. Once the car is on the street, I'll take it somewhere with a lift and some aluminum sheet and make some rock shields for everything, all the way down.

the pictures below have their own captions in. Click for a bigger picture.
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a946fffc5860/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview1jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446555)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a94702976d40/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview2jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446557)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a947037967ac/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview3jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446558)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a9470414f1ff/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview4jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446559)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a9470489bfec/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview5jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446560)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a947054ed9ba/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview6jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446561)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a94705fba39c/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview7jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446562)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a94706ebe59e/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview8jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446563)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a94707ede5d9/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview9jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446564)
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a947010e660a/tn_full_remoteBatteryOverview10jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446556)

91bird
08-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Wow that was a great post, thanks for the info.
I am a little unsure abouthe battery dissconnect. Does the switch need to kill the ignition? And if so could you use a kill switch with only two terminals and not the one with the extra terminal for the ignition switch?

Thanks
Drew

Mike8675309
08-25-2009, 08:56 PM
Wow that was a great post, thanks for the info.
I am a little unsure abouthe battery dissconnect. Does the switch need to kill the ignition? And if so could you use a kill switch with only two terminals and not the one with the extra terminal for the ignition switch?

Thanks
Drew

NHRA requirements are you kill the 12v from the alternator. Rather than run the 12v charging wire all the way back to the trunk and then back up, I chose to just run some wires that will cut the power to the coil pack. That does the same thing as cutting the power from the alternator as far as killing the motor. it should never be a problem in the tech's I'll ever go through If I find I need to add a cage, I'll do it to the nuts by the rule book.

If you don't use a disconnect switch that has two sets of terminals, you could have the alt wire also on the bat terminals as they are common to each other. You can't use the coil power wire on the same terminal. But I feel it is cleaner to have it separate. I went with the 300amp switch, and the 250amp fuse due to the load the starter can pull.

I'll be putting my trunk carpet back in once I get the car running and am sure of all the locations for things.

Toms-SC
08-25-2009, 09:54 PM
Here's mine.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/nettlesd/IMG_0049-2-1.jpg

That looks hot. More details needed stat.

metalman
08-26-2009, 12:57 AM
I second that. I'm looking at getting a Snow Kit and relocating the battery to the trunk to put the methanol reservoir where the battery is. Info here is helpful!

fastsc92
08-26-2009, 09:38 AM
As far as running the coil wire all the way back to the switch, then back up to the motor, I would use a different method. I originally did that, which was fine, but I since switched to a simple relay method.

This way, I don't have a 50+ loop of wire powering the coil-pack. I now just use one wire from the switch (small terminals) which will trigger the relay. When the switch is on, the relay is connecting the leads for the coil pack, and when the switch is disconnected, the relay de-energizes and power to the coil pack is cut.

As far as NHRA requirements, they just require that all electrical power is isolated at the battery and that it kills the car. Using this method still achieves that.

Mike8675309
08-26-2009, 10:18 AM
As far as running the coil wire all the way back to the switch, then back up to the motor, I would use a different method. I originally did that, which was fine, but I since switched to a simple relay method.

This way, I don't have a 50+ loop of wire powering the coil-pack. I now just use one wire from the switch (small terminals) which will trigger the relay. When the switch is on, the relay is connecting the leads for the coil pack, and when the switch is disconnected, the relay de-energizes and power to the coil pack is cut.


I've got so many different things going on with the car that I forget some of the stuff I wanted to try to do. Your post reminded me about the relay for that. I ended up with a spare relay and mounting block, so I may change that up a bit. That was a good idea and I think XR7 Dave brought it up in a previous thread.

there is a good thread in the members area where some of these issues was discussed in the past with additional pictures from others.. :
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74777&highlight=nhra+battery+trunk

fastsc92
08-26-2009, 10:31 AM
I've got so many different things going on with the car that I forget some of the stuff I wanted to try to do. Your post reminded me about the relay for that. I ended up with a spare relay and mounting block, so I may change that up a bit. That was a good idea and I think XR7 Dave brought it up in a previous thread.

there is a good thread in the members area where some of these issues was discussed in the past with additional pictures from others.. :
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74777&highlight=nhra+battery+trunk

They way I have mine now is that I'm running one relay, which stays energized at all times. Not good, since it'll drain the battery over time (if set up at normally open). In my case, it didn't really care since I hardly even drive the car (200 miles in 2 years) and I shut off the master switch when I park it anyways.

However, I planned to run two relays. By running two relays, if the car is turned off by the key and the master disconnect switch is still connected, the relay will de-energize and no drain will occur. I'm stealing this diagram originally posted by Mike:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/fastsc92/wiringcutoffswitch.jpg

I suppose you could run one relay and wire it up so that it is normally closed, and pushing the switch would energize the relay and disconnect the coil, but you would be going against NHRA regulations as that single wire running to the relay in the engine bay would be "hot".

In any event, running a relay set-up allows the use of a single 16awg wire instead of a longer length heavier gauge.

Mike8675309
08-26-2009, 10:44 AM
They way I have mine now is that I'm running one relay, which stays energized at all times. Not good, since it'll drain the battery over time (if set up at normally open). In my case, it didn't really care since I hardly even drive the car (200 miles in 2 years) and I shut off the master switch when I park it anyways.

However, I planned to run two relays. By running two relays, if the car is turned off by the key and the master disconnect switch is still connected, the relay will de-energize and no drain will occur. I'm stealing this diagram originally posted by Mike:


Oh yes... see now I remember. I saw that diagram as getting complicated, and since I was already running a big positive cable to the trunk I just tie wrapped two 12gauge wires to it and pulled them back there.

We'll see. I agree, having the relay energized all the time is a bit irritating. You could set a switch in your car that you have to flip to turn that on if you want. Basically an interrupter.

fastsc92
08-26-2009, 10:47 AM
True, I did the same thing, was to just run two 16 awg wires to my switch the same time I ran the large cable to the trunk. I ran mine inside the car, but the same idea applies. If you run two relays, its rather simple, and takes all the guess work out of the equation, and it'll function just as if the battery were under the hood. Plus it's a safe solution.

fastsc92
08-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Also if someone is reading through the old threads....please note that cutting just the alternator excite wire LG/R (not the charging wire) will not shut-off the car. Been there, done that....

CMac89
09-21-2011, 11:13 AM
Thread resurrection!

I have a two post cutoff switch. How does running the coil pack wires or running a relay to the switch shut it off? If you run the battery on one post and the cable to the firewall solenoid on the other post, then the alternator will still send power to the relay or coil pack.

What am I not seeing?

Mike8675309
09-21-2011, 11:59 AM
Thread resurrection!

I have a two post cutoff switch. How does running the coil pack wires or running a relay to the switch shut it off? If you run the battery on one post and the cable to the firewall solenoid on the other post, then the alternator will still send power to the relay or coil pack.

What am I not seeing?


I'm not sure what switch you have. In general you want a double pull, single throw switch. That kind of switch will have two terminals. Two very large terminals for the battery cable (battery comes in, battery goes out) and two very small terminals (alt or coil wire comes in, alt or coil wire comes out).

If you have a SPST switch it probably won't work since when you break the connection for the battery, the alt will still be sending 12v on the engine side of the battery connection. I think you need a DPST switch for that.

If you have a DPST switch, then what you need to do is take the coil wire and cut it, extend both ends to the trunk so you have essentially put the switch in series with the wire. Thus when the switch is open, the connection between both sides of the power wire for the coil pack will be open. If the coil pack power wire goes open, it can't charge the coils, the DIS will loose power, and the entire ignition system will shut down. Once the engine quits spinning, the alt will shut down.

CMac89
09-21-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm not sure what switch you have. In general you want a double pull, single throw switch. That kind of switch will have two terminals. Two very large terminals for the battery cable (battery comes in, battery goes out) and two very small terminals (alt or coil wire comes in, alt or coil wire comes out).

If you have a SPST switch it probably won't work since when you break the connection for the battery, the alt will still be sending 12v on the engine side of the battery connection. I think you need a DPST switch for that.

If you have a DPST switch, then what you need to do is take the coil wire and cut it, extend both ends to the trunk so you have essentially put the switch in series with the wire. Thus when the switch is open, the connection between both sides of the power wire for the coil pack will be open. If the coil pack power wire goes open, it can't charge the coils, the DIS will loose power, and the entire ignition system will shut down. Once the engine quits spinning, the alt will shut down.

I have the DPST switch. The Jegs 300 amp one.

That was what I planned on doing, but in order for that to work, the battery and the firewall solenoid cable would have to be put on the same pole and the coil would need to be on the pole by itself.

Jay mentioned, in this thread, that using the relay instead of running the coil wires back would achieve cutting off all electrical functions instead of just killing the coil power. I suppose we just hope we get lucky and don't run into a Nazi tech official.

Mike8675309
09-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Using the drawing above, you can see how you use 2 relays so that neither one needs to be on all the time. If you do it with one relay, then that relay will be charged all the time, otherwise you couldn't start the car.

The two relay system de-energizes the coil wire relay when the ignition switch is off. Turn the ignition switch on and the relay trips, which energizes the coil wire relay which trips that relay and your car will start.

Single relay use from diagram below

K2 - Coil Wire Relay
K1 - Ignition Relay

If we throw out K1, then you can do it with just K2. To do that you still cut the coil power wire and run one end to pin 30 of the relay, and the other end to pin 87. Pin 85 goes to ground, and pin 86 goes to the DPST switch. Thus when the remote disconnect is closed, power will flow through pin 86 to ground which will energize the relay allowing power to flow through the coil wire.

Note in that diagram it references Pin 13, the R with light green stripe wire at the IRCM or CRCM. That is the source of the wire that goes to the coil pack. That's where it starts.

fastsc92
09-21-2011, 10:23 PM
^~~~ Rising from the grave....:rolleyes:

My car is wired up using two relays and it works very well. It's much better than running a very long length of 16ga from the coil pack to the trunk and back to the coil pack again in terms of a voltage drop.

I would suggest going with the two-relay set-up. It does in fact meet NHRA regulations and it's a cleaner set-up.:)

CMac89
09-21-2011, 10:28 PM
The diagram is for a DPDT switch, but I only have a DPST. I'm not completely understanding the wiring with the two relays.

fastsc92
09-21-2011, 10:31 PM
The diagram is for a DPDT switch, but I only have a DPST. I'm not completely understanding the wiring with the two relays.

ahh yes, sorry. Get a DPDT switch. Problem solved!;)

Mike8675309
09-22-2011, 07:05 AM
The only difference between a DPST and DPDT is that a DPDT switch is never really off. Switched one way there are a set of terminals tied together, switched the other way there are a set of terminals tied together. With a DPST switch when off, no terminals are tied together, only when on.

the diagram above only has one set of terminals hooked up. the other set is disconnected.