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BRIAN WALTER
09-02-2009, 12:14 PM
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I need some input on potential idling issues. Have a 89 XR7 5 speed that I will be installing a 90sc Auto dash into. There are no provisions for the clutch pedal switch. I know my cruise control will not work and that the brake pedal will need to be depressed to start the car.
Main question is: Will I experience idling issues and occasional stalling when coming to a stop? Anyone out there experience this same scenario?
Thanks for the input,
Brian Walter

PS:Otherwise I will end up buying another parts car locally, but I'd rather not spend $700 and tie up garage space again:rolleyes:

Tim Groth
09-02-2009, 03:49 PM
I need some input on potential idling issues. Have a 89 XR7 5 speed that I will be installing a 90sc Auto dash into. There are no provisions for the clutch pedal switch. I know my cruise control will not work and that the brake pedal will need to be depressed to start the car.
Main question is: Will I experience idling issues and occasional stalling when coming to a stop? Anyone out there experience this same scenario?
Thanks for the input,
Brian Walter

PS:Otherwise I will end up buying another parts car locally, but I'd rather not spend $700 and tie up garage space again:rolleyes:

You shouldn't have any problems.

-Tim

91 XR7
09-02-2009, 05:33 PM
When since the '89s only had 4 wires going to the Clutch switch, if i remember correctly??, 2 of those are for the starter Interupt and the other two for the EEC to know if the engine is `free wheeling' which i believe is also for the Cruise control.. Since it's part of the EEC..

So Basiclly i think the starter interupt circuit SHOULD be self explanatory :p You can even by-pass the Relay under the dash for the `push brake to start' Circuit..

And the other two you can just put in parrel with the Neutral switch on for the transmission...

Colors and such i have no idea since i'm at work.. and also the fact all my diagrams are for a 1991 Car :p but i do believe i have something for a '89 someplace...

BRIAN WALTER
09-02-2009, 07:49 PM
Basically what you're saying is: Remove the 2 red w/lt blue stripe wires from the starter interrupt relay and attach the same ones from the clutch pedal switch to the relay? (so the clutch is depressed rather than brake pedal)
I'm not a big fan of electrical problems:(:eek:
Mainly my issue is about the idling/stalling issues that may exist after the install.
If you have schematics for the 89 That would be fantastic! That way its not some hack job;)
Thanks for the input so far guys!

XR7 Dave
09-02-2009, 08:45 PM
You will have idling issues because the EEC will not know when the clutch is pressed. Chances are the engine will stall when you press the clutch. I recommend that you either swap the wiring when you have it apart or graft in the proper switch circuit. It will be easier to do when the dash is out than after you get it together and end up frustrated that it doesn't idle right.

91 XR7
09-03-2009, 12:32 AM
Basically what you're saying is: Remove the 2 red w/lt blue stripe wires from the starter interrupt relay and attach the same ones from the clutch pedal switch to the relay? (so the clutch is depressed rather than brake pedal)


Hmm never thought of it THAT way.. DOH!. Yah you can take the two red w/ Blue wires from the automatics starter interrupt replay and add them to the Clutch switch

And going by my '92 Schematic which i know has different colors then the '89/90's But at the connector for the harness that goes to the transmission (under the center of the dash?) there should be a Grey with Yellow and a Purple with Yellow those two you tap into to do the Clutch switch too.. Since you have the plug for the switch from the dash your removed, it should be explanatory which of the four wires go where.. you'll have two heavy guage wires (Starter) and to light guage wires (EEC clutch sense)

BRIAN WALTER
09-03-2009, 01:11 AM
Screw it......I'm buying a parts car this weekend and swapping in a manual dash harness. No problems (with this at least) from here on out:D

BRIAN WALTER
09-03-2009, 01:30 AM
Dave, "chances are" makes me want to be stubborn about this:eek:
Anyone ever experience the same exact scenario?
I would graft in all the switches,etc but for the life of me i cannot find any schematics

XR7 Dave
09-03-2009, 06:14 AM
I've had this issue because I've done the swap more than once. It's not that hard to make it work, I was just saying that you need to fix it while its out because it's much harder to get to the wiring once you have it all together.

When I did it I spliced all the wires from the harness in the dash. I don't know why, but they ran the wires into the harness but just didn't put the plug on. But that was a ~~~~ to do. It would be easier just to tap the harness plug that goes to the transmission and run the wires over to the clutch switch.


And going by my '92 Schematic which i know has different colors then the '89/90's But at the connector for the harness that goes to the transmission (under the center of the dash?) there should be a Grey with Yellow and a Purple with Yellow those two you tap into to do the Clutch switch too.. Since you have the plug for the switch from the dash your removed, it should be explanatory which of the four wires go where.. you'll have two heavy guage wires (Starter) and to light guage wires (EEC clutch sense)

This is the correct description and I think the wires are the same colors in 89 at least with respect to this particular circuit.

You can remove the brake starter interrupt relay and run those wires to the clutch switch for the starter circuit, and then take the wires from the center console area and run them over for the EEC sensing wires. That's all you should have to do.

BRIAN WALTER
09-03-2009, 10:56 AM
The heavy gauge red/blue stripe wires I will remove from the starter interupt relay and wire those into my clutch switch pigtail.........
The purple w/yellow stripe and grey w/yellow stripe I will wire from the clutch switch pigtail into the pigtail for the transmission harness (under dash).......

My clutch switch connector has 2 more wires: green and red w/green stripe What did these go to?

Also the (manual) dash/trans harness has a purple and a grey wire that were
not wired into the switch (twisted and taped together) What is this for?

The automatic dash transmission harness has 6 pins in the connector while the manual one has 8. It appears this is where I can add the purple/yellow and the grey/yellow wires for the EEC signal. (matching slots):D
The harness coming out of the tranny tunnel has all 10 pins filled


ITS ALL STARTING TO MAKE SENSE!
A little more input and I'll be on my way:):):)

BRIAN WALTER
09-03-2009, 06:12 PM
Anyone else?

91 XR7
09-03-2009, 11:18 PM
My clutch switch connector has 2 more wires: green and red w/green stripe What did these go to?

The automatic dash transmission harness has 6 pins in the connector while the manual one has 8. It appears this is where I can add the purple/yellow and the grey/yellow wires for the EEC signal. (matching slots):D
The harness coming out of the tranny tunnel has all 10 pins filled


Where did you get this pigtail from?? Out of the '89 or from another car?? I know the pigtail i got to do the 5spd conversion in my '91 XR7 was from either a '89 or '90 and it only had 4 wires on it, and i had to get two more terminals to make it work.. With that being said..

those two extra wires are for the cruise control.. One is taped in after the brake light switch (light side) the other goes to the cruise control Module (least on '91-93?)

Think you can list the colors for wires in the harnesses for the transmission

I know my 5spd harness (from a '91? same as the original trans that was in my car) Had only 8? terminals (2 for back up, 2 for speedo, 2 for Neutral start, 2 For neutral position) where my chassis harness only had 6 (2 for back up, 2 for speedo, 2 for Neutral start) I need to track down my notes..

And as Dave said, doing this when the dash is out is much easier.. i had to do all in car, not the end of the world, but not as fun :) I remember redoing it all (even the alarm) once i had the dash out doing the heater core :o

91 XR7
09-03-2009, 11:20 PM
OH'yah
http://www3.telus.net/The_Cat/crap/Captured1.jpg

Circuit 32 starter interrupt
Circuit 511 to switched side of brake light switch
Circuit 810 to Cruise control module
Circuit 481 to EEC Pin 30 (Neutral Drive Switch input)
Circuit 480 to EEC Pin 46 (Signal Return)

when i did my swap.. i never even used pin 46 thou.. I just grounded circuit 480 to the chassis :)

I have a spare Manual, and auto harness SOMEPLACE.. but they are in storage someplace:o

BRIAN WALTER
09-06-2009, 07:03 PM
91XR7,
Why was it you grounded the signal return to the chassis and not just connect it to the clutch switch?
Also, what about the light green wire going to the brake light switch, function of this?
Where do the wires originally go from the starter interupt relay without a clutch switch? I would assume they would go to the brake pedal switch?
Thanks a bunch so far.....I will get back in a bit about the wires coming from the transmission tunnel

91 XR7
09-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Well depending on what's coming from the Transmision hanress plug that's under the center of the case (which should be the same colors GY/Y and P/Y as at the clutch switch) You may not have to do what did..

My car being a 5.0L from factory, it never had anything to do with a 5spd in it.. So i had to add the two pins at the connector under the center of the dash along with the clutch switch wiring.. But i just grounded say Circuit 480 (since that's more/less what the kinda signal pin #30 was looking for.. Specially when the car was automatic, and also Signal Return is pretty much ground too..

The green wires are for cruise control.. So when you push in the clutch pedal, it's disabled.. in '89 it *MAY* have it but not sure.. If i find the time tomorrow to go see my '89 XR7 (which is a Auto but has the pigtail for the clutch switch) i'll see for sure if it has 6 wires or just 4.. Did you take the pigtail out of the '89's dash harness??

The Red with Blue wires would run like this..
From ignition switch `Start' postition to the Starter interupt (Relay or clutch switch), On Autos to the Neutral/start switch on the transmission, then too the starter Soleniod on the fender

BRIAN WALTER
09-07-2009, 01:18 AM
Yes, the clutch pigtail harness is directly from my 89 xr7 5 speed.......it appears to be original
Let me know, thanks for the help

XR7 Dave
09-07-2009, 08:42 AM
Well depending on what's coming from the Transmision hanress plug that's under the center of the case (which should be the same colors GY/Y and P/Y as at the clutch switch) You may not have to do what did..

My car being a 5.0L from factory, it never had anything to do with a 5spd in it.. So i had to add the two pins at the connector under the center of the dash along with the clutch switch wiring.. But i just grounded say Circuit 480 (since that's more/less what the kinda signal pin #30 was looking for.. Specially when the car was automatic, and also Signal Return is pretty much ground too..

The green wires are for cruise control.. So when you push in the clutch pedal, it's disabled.. in '89 it *MAY* have it but not sure.. If i find the time tomorrow to go see my '89 XR7 (which is a Auto but has the pigtail for the clutch switch) i'll see for sure if it has 6 wires or just 4.. Did you take the pigtail out of the '89's dash harness??

The Red with Blue wires would run like this..
From ignition switch `Start' postition to the Starter interupt (Relay or clutch switch), On Autos to the Neutral/start switch on the transmission, then too the starter Soleniod on the fender

The 89 auto will not have a clutch switch pigtail. The wiring harnesses are different in those years, auto to 5spd. In 91 they started standardizing the harnesses. Interesting that you found a clutch switch pigtail without all the proper pins...

BRIAN WALTER
09-07-2009, 12:02 PM
Manual transmission tunnel harness: (front view looking at connector)
#1:black/white #2:white #3:purple #4:gray #5:black/white
#6: purple/yellow #7:white #8:gray/yellow #9:green/white #10: purple/yellow

The 2 wires I spoke of (#3purple and #4gray) from the manual dash trans harness that were twisted together for some reason and not pinned into the connector but they are pinned into the actual trans harness itself. What is the point of these wires that were not connected in my manual dash but just taped together? All the wires line up from the manual trans harness to the dash harness now

From the clutch switch I have the purple/yellow wire going to the #10 purple/yellow slot and it is spliced over to the black connector on the passenger side of the dash.
The gray/yellow wire from the clutch switch to the #8 gray/yellow slot and then to the blue connector on the passenger side as well.
Is this correct? I know the black connector has one open slot for the purple/yellow in the lower corner. The blue connector has 2 open slots, where should the gray/yellow connector be pinned in?

As for the 2 red/lt blue wires off the clutch switch, should I unplug the the 2 wires from the starter interupt relay and just connect them? Or maybe tap into them and leave the relay? Also what should I do about the light green wire off the clutch switch that goes to switched side of brake switch, what is the function of this?

Almost there.......this should be a very informative thread for those running into the same issues swapping a 5 speed into an automatic for 89-90 cars.

THanks again you guys are the best:)

91 XR7
09-07-2009, 01:03 PM
The 89 auto will not have a clutch switch pigtail. The wiring harnesses are different in those years, auto to 5spd. In 91 they started standardizing the harnesses. Interesting that you found a clutch switch pigtail without all the proper pins...

I'm not 100% sure that my '89XR7 does have it.. If i still can swing out that way i'll double check thou.. But yah.. the Pigtail i got when i did the swap in my '91 XR7 only had 4 wires going to it.. i even cut it out of the car well still wrapped and cut it as far into the main harness as i could..

91 XR7
09-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Now if someone can post some Schematics on the starter circuit, Cruise control circuit and EEC for a '89 Supercoupe.. :p
Knew there was one.. I just had to look for my own post :)

Click on this, second page as alot of info (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91764&highlight=Cruise+control)

Lets also add more confusion :) Notes on my 5spd conversion on Connector 210 For 1991's

5.0L and SC Automatic Tranny harness

Black w/ White = Speedo Ground
Green w White = Speedo Signal
White w/ Pink = To starter Relay (Fender)
Red w/ Light Blue = To Ignition Switch
Purple w/ Orange = Backup light switch feed
Black w/ Pink = To backup lights
Grey w/ Yellow = To EEC Pin # 30 (NDS)

SC Manual Tranny Harness

Grey w/ Red = Speedo Ground
Green w/ White = Speedo Signal
White w/ Pink = To starter relay (Fender)
White w/ Pink = From Ignition switch
Purple w/ Orange = Backup light switch feed
Black w/ Pink = Backup lights
Grey w/ Yellow = To EEC Pin # 30 (NDS)
Purple w/ Yellow = To EEC Pin # 46 (signal Return AKA ground)

BRIAN WALTER
09-07-2009, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the info....the pictures/diagrams from that post make alot more sense now.:D
I will repost at the end of the week when I finish splicing in the harness.

BRIAN WALTER
09-10-2009, 02:37 PM
First off a big thanks to all!

I removed the starter interupt relay and plugged in the 2 red w/blue stripe wires from the clutch switch to the matching pins in the relay connector.
The purple w/yellow stripe and grey w/yellow stripe wires are run from the clutch switch to the transmission harness (dash side) and the splices run over the black and blue connectors on the passenger side of the dash.
This part I am 100% sure I am correct on:D

Now for the light green and red w/green stripe wires from the clutch pedal switch. From reading the diagrams/schematics the only thing I can come up with is to splice them into the stop lamp switch on the brake pedal. Would this be correct? Or would the neutral drive switch input/return signals do the same function through the EEC?

Let me know
Thanks again
Brian

91 XR7
09-11-2009, 12:22 AM
Doing by the diagram for the '89 Cruise control it still needs to be hooked up (to pin #5 at the EEC)

But yah one lead would go to the switched side (brake light side) of the brake light switch, then the other would go to Pin #5 of the EEC..

I swear Ford loved to experiment with the wiring in these cars in the first 3 years of production (MN12 chassis)...

BRIAN WALTER
09-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Gotcha, so the Light Green wire from the clutch switch will be wired into the other Light Green wire on the closed side of the brake lamp switch.
Where is Pin #5 going to be? Something tells me it may be on one of the driver side connectors?
Thanks again.....almost there

91 XR7
09-11-2009, 09:57 PM
You know where the EEC is?? it'll be on the connector that plugs into it :) which is on the passenger side, behind the kick panel (which should be removed at this time for dash removal?) it's a big like 60 pin connector into a silverish box

I wish i could help you on which connector it goes through.. But C120 is in a totally different location in the '91+ cars...

It maybe also in the Blue connector in the passenger side kick panel area??? (sorry no pin # :( )

BRIAN WALTER
09-12-2009, 01:24 AM
From what I have done so far though everything is correct besides the cruise?
Im not to worried about that as long as the wires are stilll there to be taken care of later on.....my main issue was the idle/freewheeling part...
THanks again you guys are awesome!

91 XR7
09-12-2009, 09:56 AM
Then that should work, in theory :p

Allot of manufactures do build truly un-needed things into a system.. since i swear it must be in 1990 that they got rid of of the circuit that goes to the brake light switch.. But gained it again in '91+ because the cruise control module became external from the EEC..

BRIAN WALTER
09-23-2009, 05:46 PM
Update:Still confused as hell

Wires from clutch pedal switch to starter interupt are in.....removed relay and connected them in matching pin slots. FINISHED

I have the purple/yellow wire from the clutch switch to the transmission harness and then to the black connector for the EEC on the pass. side. FINISHED

I have the grey/yellow (neutral drive switch input) wire from the clutch switch to the transmission harness and then over to the blue connector for the EEC. This wire becomes a red/blue stripe, there is already a red/blue stripe wire here. What do I do about this?

I have the light green wire off the clutch pedal switch spliced into the switched side of the brake light switch. FINISHED

Now with the red/green stripe wire, it is supposed to go to EEC pin#5. So, it is either going into the black or blue connector....... The blue connector has 6/8 slots filled on the dash side and 6/8 on the EEC side. Where would this tie into the EEC harness, in the black connector as well?

Help me out here PLEASE!

91 XR7
09-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Hate to say this, but you may have to remove the connector (10MM bolt) from the ECU, and figure out which pin is #5 then trace that wire back..

Also with the Red with Blue wire (hot when key is in the `start' position, Grounded otherwise) Should be cut, and the one lead that comes from the Transmission and clutch switch (NDS, Grey With Yellow) Should be spiced into the Red with Blue lead that goes towards the ECU..

http://www3.telus.net/The_Cat/crap/EEC-IV%20connector.jpg

That should give you an idea of the pin locations (Ignore the wire positions and colors to the most part, since it's for a '91 SC)

pins 20, 40, 60 Are all grounds.. (20 i think the signal return is tied into)

BRIAN WALTER
09-25-2009, 12:00 AM
Excellent, I needed that picture for a basic reference of where the numbered slots are on the ecm connector. I will trace that back to the black or blue connector on the passenger side of the dash harness. And I will splice in the red/blue stripe to the existing one. Thanks again so much I will repost when the dash is in and the car is running!