Starter issues all over again. Fixed

ricardoa1

Registered User
Well it was not long till the car get a way of getting on my nerves.

The starter issue is back. Ive been at fixing this for a while. Ive put on a total of 4 autozone starters on the car, and eventually the problem comes back. The car clicks but the starter solenoid seems to not have enough power to slide the starter gear into the flywheel gears and mesh so the starter can then crank. It seems to click and I have to rock the damn car back and fourth in gear so I can align the flywheel with the starter gear. It has done it once or twice the past year or so not so annoying. But its back and every time I get into the car I have to get out and start rolling back and fourth.

Now I keep thinking its the solenoid on the starter. Remeber I have a 94 and I dont have the relay solenoid thats on the fender. To be honest I dont even know where that relay is on my car. Ive changed the red wire pigtail and like I said several starters. Dave took out my alarm kill switch thinking that was the problem. And by chance or a miracle, either by replacing the engine and moving the wires around it seem to have fixed the issue for a period of time.

Doing research some say its a bad ground. Either from the starter to the battery or related area, or its the ground at the motor mount to the frame rails. Some blame the battery terminals, Others change the starter and it fixes it. Hitting the starter with a mallet did the trick in past times. But not sure hitting it is simply rotating the gear and allowing proper engagement or it moves a wire a certain way. Ive used heat blankets on the starter and still it manages to go bad. That area gets very hot and I feel like heat aggrevates the problem. Although last summer I rarely had this problem.

So fixes would be appreciated. But remeber that I have a 94 and I dont have that relay sol on the inner fender by the battery like most of you do.
 
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I seem to be having this problem too. Check how much voltage is at the battery when it does this. I hope my problem was the alternator going bad and slowly draining the batt to where it didn't have enough juice to start the car. I would hook up jumpers and it would fire right up. And finally the alt totally went and I noticed the volt gauge wouldn't go above 12 volts.

So check the alternator if its not new or haven't already checked it.

I just replace the alt on my car so I don't know if it fixed the starting problem yet, but the battery is staying charged now.
 
Yeah low voltage causes the same symtoms but the alternator is brand new, if you read my other thread I had a little issue with jumping the car with reverse polarity. After that....

Battery is new and so is the alternator. When the gears in the flywheel and the starter are perfectly aligned there is alot of cranking power so the starter is gettin good cranking power but the solenoid seems to not be getting the same or maybe its damaged.
 
I think that the solenoid and relay are integral with the starter on 94+ cars. That's why you don't have one on the fender.
 
Yes the solenoid is on the starter, that is why you dont have it on the fender. Do you recall what aftermarket brand you are putting on? New or Reman? I have heard of inadequate windings on the Armature causing similar problems.
 
Yes and no. All SC's have the same starter with on-board solenoid, yet the 89-93's have a solenoid on the fender also. Why? Not exactly sure but I think the 89-93 system was superior as it has the ability to provide more current to the solenoid than the 95+ system.

BUT.

1) Someone had an issue with the starter bolts on your car at one point in time and the threads into the bellhousing are all screwed up. In fact the repair resulted in the hole not being 100% where it used to be. Result is that it is possible that your starter alignment is not very good. Don't blame me, it was like that before I got to the car.

2) The solenoid on the starter may not be generating enough "thrust" to engage the starter motor and/or force it's way past the ring gear. Because the 94 does not use a fender relay, the juice for the solenoid comes all the way from the key. This may result in less than ideal current at the solenoid. One way to check this theory would be to jump the posts at the starter instead of trying to start it with the key. If that works better then you might be on to something. You could also check voltage at the solenoid during crank....

3) Don't use starter blankets. That will trap heat in the starter and kill it quicker than leaving it open. If you think the headers are causing a problem, wrap the headers in the area where they pass the starter instead.

4) I have found one of the problems with many reman starters is that they simply are not lubricated properly. I've taken apart starters that didn't work at all, lubricated everything, and had them perform perfectly for years afterward.
 
I really believe in finding a local rebuilder for electric motors like starters and alternators and having them rebuild your motor rather than buying off the shelf rebuilt equipment. This gives you someone to talk to when things go wrong, and this also tends to motivate a higher quality of service as they know you now know who they are. And typically the price is the same if not lower.

Both my 90 and 93 have alternators rebuilt by a local shop who also rebuilt the starter being used in my 93. I've never had an issue with the alternators or starters, the one in the 90 over 5 years and daily driven in the summer.
 
We can eliminate 1 as a possible problem I swapped all of my late model trans into a eariler case. This was the reason for the swap, you might remember I made a post about it so the starter now has the factory bolts keeping it in place.

I did not put the blanket back on since you gave me the car.





Ok now are we sure that the big gauge power wire that the starter uses is also the one that powers that actuator solenoid. And the small red wire only activates a relay inside the starter? Ive changed the clutch switch and ignition switch in the past to fix this problem and those did not do it. Im thinking the big gauge wire is bad but like I said the starter more has plenty of cranking power. Can it be the terminals id like some testing tips that dont involve special tools like volt meters.

I looked at the repair book and I dont understand how the grounds are wired.
 
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That's great that you fixed some of the possible issues.

Ok, the main power wire that goes to the starter is only the power for the motor. That you have good power for the motor tells me that your power cable is ok and your ground is ok. The ground on the 94+ is connected to the bolt that attaches the starter. Earlier cars had the ground on the motor mount at the front drivers. 94's do not.

The small wire that runs with the big power wire is the solenoid wire. There is no relay in the starter, only the solenoid. On the 89's the key only powers the solenoid on the fender which is a low current solenoid, and then the fender solenoid powers the starter solenoid. It's a series system that is capable of really stepping up the current to the starter. On the 94, the key powers all the way down to the solenoid which is why I think this circuit may be suspect. You'd need to attach a volt meter at the connector on the starter solenoid and then watch what you get when someone turns the key. Don't take this for gospel but my gut says you should see 11v or more during attempted cranking. If you only see 5-9v then I would say there is a definite issue with power supply on the solenoid feed.
 
And to add to what David said....the power for the solenoid runs from the ignition switch through contact 1 and 2 of the clutch pendal switch direct to the solenoid. I would trace out all the connectors in that circuit and take them apart and clean each one and ensure they are fully seated and secure. Other than that there isn't anything to point to (assuming you have good voltage at the solenoid) other than the start itself...again. As David also said, if the starter is not properly lubricated the solenoid even if properly powered may not have enough "power" to consistently engage the starter.
 
Ok Ill do some poking this weekend. I also feel like the repair pigtail that ford did a TSB is not properly installed by simply crimping, I think I want to soldier that pigtail on permanently.
 
Interesting.....My 95 has been doing this for years with a Carquest starter on it. I never put together that the solenoid wasn't getting enough push to engage.
 
Another thing I noticed on mine, mine is an auto tho, is sometimes i could put it in nuetral instead of park and it would crank. So I thought maybe the MLP switch was going bad. But then that stopped working too. So hopefully the new alt fixes my problem.
 
I have the same problem with mine its been doing it for years
I was coming home from Carlisle one year stopped for gas got in the car and nothing I was in a small town in Va on a Sunday everything was closed after about an hour it started the next day I drove from Tenn to Fla and never shut it off we took turns going to the bathroom and getting food
 
Being many with the later models are having this problem, I bet the solenoid isn't getting enough voltage...makes sense especially if the circuit is all the way from the ignition switch! :eek:

I'd clamp a test wire to the positive battery terminal and touch the other end on the solenoid terminal. If that works, you found the underlying issue - not enough voltage. I wonder if replacing the ignition switch would help. It's got to be something that wears/degrades over time and causes voltage drop to occur at inappropriate points in the circuit. Does anyone have a EVTM diagram of the starting circuit for this year of T-Bird that they can scan and post?
 
Looks like alot of use late model folks have this problem. There was a problem with this little wire and ford even services with a pigtail. But Maybe its an inadequate ciricuit for a starter solenoid, and although it might have worked great when it was new, over time along corrosion it creates less then ideal current.

Maybe adding a relay similar to a early car will solve the issues and prevent it from happening for some of us. Why would ford get rid of the relay system why was it in place to begin with and then they decided to get rid of it in later cars. Sometimes i wonder.

I also want to go on a limb and say that in the summer time the battery tends to get very hot. When in extreme high a complete charge less then when the car is running in non extreme scenario. For example fans are running full blast when hot before shutting the car down ect.
 
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I used to have that same problem on mine and I thought it was due to the summer heat and the fan running and drawing too much current when I tried to start the car (thermo-switch to bypass bad IRCM/hot start). Usually turning the fan and all other electronics in the car off would let it turn over.

What I believe has fixed the problem was replacing the negative battery cable. Mine looked like the typical cable with some corrosion at the wire on the terminal. Then after sitting for three years, the terminal connection corroded to the point of falling off so I had to replace it. Problem has not come back since and I'm using the same starter I've had since... well to be honest it's either factory or I put it on so long ago (8+ years) I forgot I replaced it.

Nothing else that's been changed should have any effect on the electrics (new engine, trans, flexplate, and converter), and I've been driving it in the summer heat and humidity of Memphis. It's worth the $20 or so to change it and see if that makes a difference.

Edit: You also get one of those rubber terminal covers when you get the new cable. Free engine dress up!! :D
 
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