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DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 02:57 AM
Finally, it's in!

25x12x3 2.5" inlet/outlet intercooler from cxracing.com : http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=IC0006-30&Category_Code=IC30CO
2.5" universal piping kit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320423967371
plus had to buy one 2.75" 45 silicon coupler and some 3" pipe clamps (need to get some t-bolts that fit the bigger sizes - at the sc top and intake manifold inlet)

Also purchased a 24x19 universal radiator from Jegs: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52016/10002/-1

A/C was deleted, so I decided to install everything inside the core support, trying to avoid any cutting. I may end up trimming a few areas after the shootout, just because the couplers are a little close to metal edges :rolleyes: but for now I think it's okay. The most stressful part was the lower radiator hose. I ended up buying four different hoses (one of which was the Napa 8948) before deciding to make a hose. I cut two hoses careful and spliced them together. Doesn't look too bad, as long as it holds! Enjoy the pictures and feel free to ask anything...no comments on the worm clamps though. I'll get some T-bolts when I can (even if they don't manage to come off). :cool:

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 03:00 AM
Few more...

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 03:02 AM
And a few more...

nickleman60
10-01-2009, 07:30 AM
Looks good, ought to cool real nice.

I did notice you were missing a clamp on the passenger side 90 degree elbow at the i/c.

thunderkid84
10-01-2009, 08:12 AM
get some turbo t-clamps instead of those worm cllamps.

looks awesome. great job.

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 10:43 AM
get some turbo t-clamps instead of those worm cllamps.

looks awesome. great job.

What did I say again!? :p:D

Thanks gentlemen! :D

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Looks good, ought to cool real nice.

I did notice you were missing a clamp on the passenger side 90 degree elbow at the i/c.

Thanks for looking out, but it's there...hiding behind the radiator a bit. I had to do a sanity check before I even ate my breakfast though....you never know what you might do or not do at 3am. :rolleyes:

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 10:50 AM
Oh yeah, almost forgot - what do you guys think about attaching the bottom of the IC to something? The top is bolted down, but until I get some hump style couplers, I was thinking about leaving it as is to let it move a little if needed. It can swing safely either direction about an inch (the bottom that is). I was planning on make straps out of the steel I bought, but got to thinking that it might be better to be a little flexible for the time being....

XxSlowpokexX
10-01-2009, 11:00 AM
Did you bead the ends of the tubes? If not you may have some blow off issues with even when using tbolt clamps. The minute oil works into those couplers..... I'd hate to see you have an issue like that at the track.

Regardless it looks great!. I'd say strap down the bottom of IC or maybe even make a horizontal adjustable crossmember so you still get horizontal adjustment with vertical support

thunderkid84
10-01-2009, 11:39 AM
What did I say again!? :p:D

Thanks gentlemen! :D

Oops. My bad. Didn't even read the thread just looked at the pics.

David Neibert
10-01-2009, 12:08 PM
Nice Job. For easy removal of belts with the IC tube on the car, get a long handle 18mm box end wrench. That reverse tensioner takes about twice the force of the others, and the long handle on the wrench really helps.

David

Tony8470
10-01-2009, 02:40 PM
I would look into making something that will flex with the intercooler at the bottom. On my MP FMIC the top driver side bolt is pulling out, from the engine twisting and pulling on the top intercooler tube.


Nice Job. For easy removal of belts with the IC tube on the car, get a long handle 18mm box end wrench. That reverse tensioner takes about twice the force of the others, and the long handle on the wrench really helps.

David
(Pictures just for representation)

I use 2 wrenches for the tensionsers stacked on each other. It works particularly well for the driveshaft bolts where you cant get a socket in there. Left picture for tightening bolts (loosening tensionser). Right picture for loosening bolts.

DrFishbone
10-01-2009, 11:16 PM
I double wrench all the time to make up for my computer work muscles. :rolleyes:

Beads will be going on there when I have a chance to finish it the rest of the way. Jacob Royer welded them up for me, but his shop was out of the small rods that he was going to use. Hopefully it hold for the shootout! :rolleyes:

As far as mounting the bottom, maybe some of the exhaust clamps with the rubber isolator in them would work well. that would allow for flex, but still keep it from shaking all over the place. We'll see!

skyrider
10-04-2009, 12:10 PM
Vicious!!

Can't wait to see some videos from the shootout. Rock on Dr Matt! :cool:

thunderkid84
10-04-2009, 01:45 PM
i just noticed the 90 degree silicone couplers going into and out of the intercooler. those things are going to fully collapse in vacuum. it'll be hard for the air to circulate thru the intercooler and sc while in vacuum with those. and you'll notice more whine(not a bad thing) and more heat.

at least this is what i experienced before i had some 90 degree pipes go in and out of my intercooler.

Ryan A Harris
10-04-2009, 03:24 PM
I was waiting to see how he made out at the shoot out. With the AC deleted, I'm very curious to see how things went. I'm looking at something very simular to this set up.

I like this install, very clean and neat.

89XR7TD
10-04-2009, 03:47 PM
Does look good and its cool how he put up the links to the stuff he bought:)

Tom

knutrockney77
10-05-2009, 03:05 PM
idk if matt wanted to tell you or what, but since people are curious he won super stock class, so he did something right lol, think he ran a 14.1? lol or maybe it was in the 13's i forget.

DrFishbone
10-05-2009, 03:37 PM
MATT - YOU'RE BACK!!!!!!!!!!! You missed an awesome Shootout man. That's all I can say. :(

The IC worked great for the shootout! It added 150+HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







yeah, j/k...it was the supercoupeperformance.com sticker.







Well, I was worried about the piping popping out of the couplers because of no beads being welded on, but they didn't budge! on the ends, I took coarse sandpaper and sanded rotationally around the end of the piping, so the couplers would have better grip. I was still worried though, so Saturday night, I bought some insulated wire and wrapped it so that the piping wouldn't get into the pullies if it did pop loose...that would suck. :rolleyes:

I'm sure that the silicon 90 couplers would have collapsed, but I had a plan. ;) I cut short, wedge-shaped sections of the piping and pushed these sections into the 90's, which worked very well. I'm going to try to find a way to keep them from turning inside the elbow (if even possible) for peace of mind. If nothing else, I'll have some elbows welded to the IC itself.

Now I gotta change a few parts that didn't make it through the weekend (IAC, AFPR, strut tower mount) and then I'll be making the IC and radiator setup as robust and pretty as I wanted to. :D


Evan - I was going to put it in my signature once it gets uploaded to the website...but maybe i'll just go ahead and do it anyway. Not a ground-breaking number overall...just for me. :D it was 13.9xx...so I did get the car in the 13's, although I'm sure that it'll go faster as is...well...when the problems are fixed. Maybe 13.6 on a perfect run. :D

Anyhow, I appreciate the mention, Evan. :) I was trying to make it a surprise for my Facebook crowd, but I think we have a leak now (skyrider) no prob....you can keep a secret, right Matt C?

When I get home tonight, I plan on posting pictures, videos, etc. like mad...if anyone wants any pictures of the IC / radiator setup fine details, let me know. Just no close-ups of the paintjob on my car. :p:D

Pacman
10-05-2009, 06:28 PM
I double wrench all the time to make up for my computer work muscles. :rolleyes:

Beads will be going on there when I have a chance to finish it the rest of the way. Jacob Royer welded them up for me, but his shop was out of the small rods that he was going to use. Hopefully it hold for the shootout! :rolleyes:

As far as mounting the bottom, maybe some of the exhaust clamps with the rubber isolator in them would work well. that would allow for flex, but still keep it from shaking all over the place. We'll see!

Sweet! i've got one of his 3.5" intake tubes and a cold air devider you should see if he can make you one.

DrFishbone
10-05-2009, 08:38 PM
Sweet! i've got one of his 3.5" intake tubes and a cold air devider you should see if he can make you one.

I've got some ideas for my own...one of my many next small projects on the car. :D

RedSC93
10-06-2009, 12:46 PM
For around $250 for a FMIC that's awesome. Cheaper than the double inter-coolers around.

Jerry

artic94sc
10-06-2009, 12:49 PM
hopefully going to but this set up by the end of next week.......:eek:

good find bro, thing looks awesome nice and clean and hugs the motor

DrFishbone
10-06-2009, 12:53 PM
There's lots of different options on FMIC and radiator combos....several are very detailed on this site, which is where I started my brainstorming. Some cheaper, some maybe better than this one. I think it's kinda hard to go wrong with any FMIC as long as it's not 1) too small 2) almost completely blocks air to the radiator 3) maybe too big...but I don't know if we have room to go to big on our cars.

I mainly did it this way right now so that I could use the bigger radiator - which works GREAT. If I had it to do over again, I MIGHT try to fit a 26x19 in there...but I'm very happy so far.

artic94sc
10-06-2009, 01:43 PM
are you using any pusher fans?

DrFishbone
06-17-2010, 01:33 PM
are you using any pusher fans?

Sorry I missed this question - No, no pusher fans. I am thinking about installing one or two puller fans on the backside of the IC. I'm concerned that they may further impede airflow to the radiator however.

Okay, now for the reason I was looking at IC threads again:

I still need to fix the 90 coupler issue...I'd like to upgrade all the couplers actually, but we'll see. When under boost (just throttle blips), I can see even the straight couplers swell. I don't like this. Where did some of you guys get the better couplers? I believe mine are the cheapy "3-ply" ones as usually sold on ebay.

Has anyone found a 90 coupler that doesn't collapse under vacuum yet? If not, I'll go ahead and order my u-bend and humps. :cool:

warpedsc
06-18-2010, 01:34 AM
looks real good man. once i get the little issues with mine lined out will have to get out and see yours in person

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 06:05 AM
looks real good man. once i get the little issues with mine lined out will have to get out and see yours in person

Thanks, Billy! It hasn't changed much from back when. :rolleyes: I need to get my butt moving if I'm going to meet my project goals by the shootout though!

Roadhawg
06-18-2010, 06:51 AM
Has anyone found a 90 coupler that doesn't collapse under vacuum yet? If not, I'll go ahead and order my u-bend and humps. :cool:

On my FMIC I avoided using any 90 degree couplers. Also the connections with couplers only have a 1/4 gap between ends of each pipe.

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 09:27 AM
On my FMIC I avoided using any 90 degree couplers. Also the connections with couplers only have a 1/4 gap between ends of each pipe.

I would like to avoid the 90 couplers...just wondering if there are any really good ones is all. If I can avoid welding the IC pipes to the IC, I'd feel a little better, but if it needs done, it'll get done! :D

XR7 Dave
06-18-2010, 09:34 AM
All 90 deg couplers are going to collapse under vacuum. It would be best to eliminate them because over time they will be damaged, not to mention they are loud, and expensive.

David Neibert
06-18-2010, 12:48 PM
Sorry I missed this question - No, no pusher fans. I am thinking about installing one or two puller fans on the backside of the IC. I'm concerned that they may further impede airflow to the radiator however.

Okay, now for the reason I was looking at IC threads again:

I still need to fix the 90 coupler issue...I'd like to upgrade all the couplers actually, but we'll see. When under boost (just throttle blips), I can see even the straight couplers swell. I don't like this. Where did some of you guys get the better couplers? I believe mine are the cheapy "3-ply" ones as usually sold on ebay.

Has anyone found a 90 coupler that doesn't collapse under vacuum yet? If not, I'll go ahead and order my u-bend and humps. :cool:

I get all my silicone couplers and t-bolts from this place.

http://racepartssolutions.com/categories.asp?cat=26

David

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Thanks Dave & Dave.

DN - You aren't using 90 elbows are you? The ones you are using are 3-ply? Thanks for the link.

DD - You have a way of putting things such that they make it easier for me to decide! You've emphasized my concerns...I think I'll jsut go ahead and weld elbows to the IC is there isn't room to clamp them on with straights. Thanks for the definitive answer. ;)

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 01:27 PM
I get all my silicone couplers and t-bolts from this place.

http://racepartssolutions.com/categories.asp?cat=26

David

lol...you know what's funny...I visited this site yesterday and it made me think of you and Mike Tuck for some reason!

David Neibert
06-18-2010, 02:57 PM
Thanks Dave & Dave.

DN - You aren't using 90 elbows are you? The ones you are using are 3-ply? Thanks for the link.

DD - You have a way of putting things such that they make it easier for me to decide! You've emphasized my concerns...I think I'll jsut go ahead and weld elbows to the IC is there isn't room to clamp them on with straights. Thanks for the definitive answer. ;)

Not using any 90 degree elbows except on the turbo car between the turbo outlet and intercooler inlet (never sees vacuum). Yes..everything is 3 ply.

David

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Not using any 90 degree elbows except on the turbo car between the turbo outlet and intercooler inlet (never sees vacuum). Yes..everything is 3 ply.

David

Ah, so that why turbo kits don't need to worry about collapsing couplers. Shows how much I know about turbo setups. :rolleyes:

Well, I'll definitely ditch the couplers then. I thought it would be best, I just thought I remembered someone finding a 90 that didn't collapse. Even if so...probably was an expensive one! :rolleyes:

Mike8675309
06-18-2010, 04:41 PM
I also used raceparts solution couplers on my car. The key to couplers though is don't rely on them to span gaps. they are just there to connect two lengths of tube. The tube should be nearly touching with the clamp just sealing the connection. Thus you are not counting on them to hold primary pressure.

With it setup that way on my car none of my hoses suck down, and they only bulge slightly under pressure.

If you don't have a way to roll ridges onto your tubes, you can do it old school style with a vice grip or a strong hand and pliers. Use the nose of the pliers or vice grip to squeeze the end of the tube and then tip it up at a slight angle. Do this all the way around, creating a flare on the end of the tube. Clean the end up with a file and some sand paper so it's edge is smooth and it won't cut your silicone tubes. Then slip the tube over the flare, and set your clamp just behind this. Use T-bolt or constant torque clamps, and with silicone you should be using lined clamps. Be careful you don't deform your tubes with getting the clamps too tight. That is why you want a rolled edge or a flange lip. so you don't need to get the clamps so tight that it deforms the tube.

DrFishbone
06-18-2010, 05:05 PM
I also used raceparts solution couplers on my car. The key to couplers though is don't rely on them to span gaps. they are just there to connect two lengths of tube. The tube should be nearly touching with the clamp just sealing the connection. Thus you are not counting on them to hold primary pressure.

With it setup that way on my car none of my hoses suck down, and they only bulge slightly under pressure.

If you don't have a way to roll ridges onto your tubes, you can do it old school style with a vice grip or a strong hand and pliers. Use the nose of the pliers or vice grip to squeeze the end of the tube and then tip it up at a slight angle. Do this all the way around, creating a flare on the end of the tube. Clean the end up with a file and some sand paper so it's edge is smooth and it won't cut your silicone tubes. Then slip the tube over the flare, and set your clamp just behind this. Use T-bolt or constant torque clamps, and with silicone you should be using lined clamps. Be careful you don't deform your tubes with getting the clamps too tight. That is why you want a rolled edge or a flange lip. so you don't need to get the clamps so tight that it deforms the tube.

Thanks for the tips, Mike.

I'll probably have some beads welded onto the ends to help keep the couplers from slipping. Seems like that would be the best balance of safety/ease/reliability to me. Nice to know other options though! ;) I hadn't thought of "hand-flaring" them.

I do have t-bolt clamps...it seems that they'll break before distorting the tube though! :eek: I ended up breaking about three. The nut didn't seem all that tight to me, then the bolt just twisted off. Where can you get lined clamps? I haven't seen any anywhere yet.

XxSlowpokexX
06-18-2010, 07:25 PM
You can shove a peice of curved metal tubing inside your 90 degree bends which will prevent them being sucked in

MagpoweredSC
06-18-2010, 07:37 PM
Big gaps in tubes = very loud blower. :cool:

Big gaps ftmfw!!!!

Mike8675309
06-18-2010, 11:18 PM
I purchased these constant torque clamps from here: http://www.partssystems.com/constant-torque-hose-clamp-heavy-duty.html
http://www.partssystems.com/images/T/ct.jpg
I prefer them over t-bolt, and they are available in a heavy duty 5/8" band. You don't get them any tighter than necessary (there are instructions online) and they have a liner. I've worked with these style clamps on Diesel truck intercoolers and they provide a constant clamping force, even growing as necessary to maintain the same pressure when the aluminum expands from heat.

T-bolts you can get the tight enough cold that when things heat up and the tubes expand, the t-bolts break.

These cost more, but they should last a long time.

DrFishbone
06-20-2010, 03:04 AM
You can shove a peice of curved metal tubing inside your 90 degree bends which will prevent them being sucked in

That's basically what I have now, but the tube piece isn't big enough. It's just enough to hold it partly open. If I'm buying the u-bend anyway, might as well weld in on, if all looks well. :rolleyes:

DrFishbone
06-20-2010, 03:06 AM
I purchased these constant torque clamps from here: http://www.partssystems.com/constant-torque-hose-clamp-heavy-duty.html
http://www.partssystems.com/images/T/ct.jpg
I prefer them over t-bolt, and they are available in a heavy duty 5/8" band. You don't get them any tighter than necessary (there are instructions online) and they have a liner. I've worked with these style clamps on Diesel truck intercoolers and they provide a constant clamping force, even growing as necessary to maintain the same pressure when the aluminum expands from heat.

T-bolts you can get the tight enough cold that when things heat up and the tubes expand, the t-bolts break.

These cost more, but they should last a long time.

Those look nice....I don't think they're TOO expensive really...I guess I would need 6...so only about $30 plus shipping. :cool:

DrFishbone
09-25-2014, 01:15 PM
This is way, way old news, but instead of replacing the 90 degree couplers, I cut a u-bend in half and slid it into the 90's. The tubing gives the coupler all the support it needs to keep from collapsing (at all).

Little easier and more maintenance friendly.

I didn't add humps to the tubing, but did use a pair or pliers to add a little "flare" to the tubing. Since then, the tubing doesn't move. Prior to the "flare", I did have a tube blow off once.

I am hitting about 19psi now...they're not gong anywhere. :)

Kurt Sunday
09-29-2014, 02:50 PM
Nice work Matt!

DrFishbone
09-29-2014, 03:03 PM
Nice work Matt!

Thanks Kurt.

This is a few years old and I know there are better setups out there, but even so, this has worked well for me!

Mike8675309
09-29-2014, 07:07 PM
Those look nice....I don't think they're TOO expensive really...I guess I would need 6...so only about $30 plus shipping. :cool:

When you get such, get spares. If you accidentally overtorque the band will snap when the tube gets hot. The current Breeze units have a built in indicator that helps prevent overtorque. When I first ran into these things was in the late 80's on Cat 3406B diesel engines. The trucks were coming from the Peterbilt factory with clamps that broke because the factory was over torquing them.

DrFishbone
09-30-2014, 11:35 AM
When you get such, get spares. If you accidentally overtorque the band will snap when the tube gets hot. The current Breeze units have a built in indicator that helps prevent overtorque. When I first ran into these things was in the late 80's on Cat 3406B diesel engines. The trucks were coming from the Peterbilt factory with clamps that broke because the factory was over torquing them.


Yeah, it's easy to get them too tight! I broke a couple early on.