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fturner
10-05-2009, 07:43 PM
I figured we could start a list of new best times here as it seem just about everyone did this year. My car kept getting faster during time trials and I ended up running Mod1 instead of super stock.

Ran my new best during time trials on my street tires
60'-2.140
1/8-8.986 @ 81.10mph
1/4-13.784 @ 105.94

Then I borrowed some slicks (thanks Allen) and ran slower :cool:.
60'-2.033
1/8-8.952 @ 80.08mph
1/4-13.830 @ 104.11

Fraser

rzimmerl
10-05-2009, 08:17 PM
Posted my bew best, its just too bad I ran it in the semi's of Mod 2 and broke out.

60' - 1.709
1/8 - 7.797 @85.44
1/4 - 12.545 @108.08

Payton
10-05-2009, 08:18 PM
My best was 11.80 at 119mph

Roadhawg
10-05-2009, 08:56 PM
Well this was the first time I took my SC powered Stang on the 1/4 mile.

60' - 1.607
1/8 - 7.398 @92.95
1/4 - 11.615 @118.28

DrFishbone
10-05-2009, 09:11 PM
13.934s @ 101.5mph for me. Alot better than my first-ever trip down the strip. I didn't even want the time slip... :o

racecougar
10-05-2009, 09:41 PM
New best E.T. - 12.782
New best MPH - 109.76 MPH

Mercutio
10-05-2009, 09:45 PM
13.63@108.56 on street tires in the V.

winky
10-05-2009, 10:09 PM
not a best but this was the 1st time ever racing a stick

super red91
10-05-2009, 10:16 PM
New best e.t. and mph...12.30@120 (while fogging for mosquitoes)

94sc500
10-05-2009, 10:16 PM
first race ever
14.97 @ 92 (room for improvement)
black 93 5 speed -Jesse

neverfastenough
10-05-2009, 10:18 PM
New best e.t of 13.54 along with new best 103.xx MPH

nickleman60
10-05-2009, 10:37 PM
This was the 1st time my car had been down any track so I had all personal best. These are the best times out of all of my runs. I'll be in 11's by next year, with a MPX/Nitrous...........:D

reaction - .096
60' - 1.778
1/8 - 7.891
1/4 - 12.216
mph - 117.76

Kurt K
10-05-2009, 11:01 PM
New bests:

RT -- .023
60' -- 1.587 :eek: (I didn't even realize this until gathering data for this post)
1/4 -- 11.764
mph -- 119.08

killing at the tree, .054 (me) vs .461 (Neibert :) )

VicRattlehead
10-06-2009, 01:48 AM
no new bests for me, i was .2 almost .3 tenths slower then i was at the nmra joliet race in july. i know where it slowed down its just a matter of getting some weight out of the car.

quick35th
10-06-2009, 04:37 AM
New best for me as well:

R/T .147
60' 2.224
330 5.559
1/8 8.997
MPH 83.51
1000 11.501
1/4 13.627
MPH 103.75

Shane
Glynn Motorsports

David Neibert
10-06-2009, 08:12 AM
New best ET & MPH for me driving the 91 without nitrous. This was with the new SCU 4.2 motor that only had about 200 miles on it, being raced on the street tune.

60ft 1.665
1/8 7.455 @ 94.56
1/4 11.602 @ 122.66

David

ricardoa1
10-06-2009, 12:27 PM
What can I say, I suck at drag racing and I think my tires are no good. I could not catch anything better then a 1.9 60ft.
I could not shift into fourth on my best pass, and running 13s in an AR powered car is simply embarrasing.


But here are the best of for me.

12.6 ET without shifting into fourth with a 1.9 60ft
Best MPH was a nice 115MPH on a separate run, so the car has powa and could get into the 11s if I can get someone that knows how to drive it and good tires.
I had a good run during eliminations but after beating Rod not knowing I had redlit, I coasted thru the beams thinking I was going to break out of 12.7 index. So no good numbers for my car. Just an impressed Mike Menke and Fraser after letting them drive the car.

fturner
10-06-2009, 01:01 PM
What can I say, I suck at drag racing and I think my tires are no good. I could not catch anything better then a 1.9 60ft.
I could not shift into fourth on my best pass, and running 13s in an AR powered car is simply embarrasing.


But here are the best of for me.

12.6 ET without shifting into fourth with a 1.9 60ft
Best MPH was a nice 115MPH on a separate run, so the car has powa and could get into the 11s if I can get someone that knows how to drive it and good tires.
I had a good run during eliminations but after beating Rod not knowing I had redlit, I coasted thru the beams thinking I was going to break out of 12.7 index. So no good numbers for my car. Just an impressed Mike Menke and Fraser after letting them drive the car.

:eek::D:eek::)

Thanks

Fraser

kenewagner
10-06-2009, 01:26 PM
Posted my bew best, its just too bad I ran it in the semi's of Mod 2 and broke out.

60' - 1.709
1/8 - 7.797 @85.44
1/4 - 12.545 @108.08

Sandbagger:D:D:D

kenewagner
10-06-2009, 01:41 PM
2 years ago ran a 13.6 at the shoot out. Best time this time around was a
12.797 best mph was 109.5 and best 60 foot was 1.78. Might have done better with a tune but now its home and another engine is finding its way under the hood:D.


Ken

Pablo94SC
10-06-2009, 02:15 PM
12.788 @ 106.01
Best MPH 108.12

Thomas A
10-06-2009, 03:14 PM
13.205 @ 102.29 with a 1.795 short time were all new bests for me! Wish I could have made a few more passes. :)

Thomas

Ryan A Harris
10-06-2009, 04:53 PM
This was the 1st time my car had been down any track so I had all personal best. These are the best times out of all of my runs. I'll be in 11's by next year, with a MPX/Nitrous...........:D

reaction - .096
60' - 1.778
1/8 - 7.891
1/4 - 12.216
mph - 117.76

Was that with a shot of the NOS?

It seems like everyone has been new times, and raising the bar for everyone else. Way to go guys, looks like I missed a great weekend of racing.

ricardoa1
10-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Was that with a shot of the NOS?

It seems like everyone has been new times, and raising the bar for everyone else. Way to go guys, looks like I missed a great weekend of racing.

He told me it was a 50shot. I wish I had the guts to turn mine on 900miles away from home.

ricardoa1
10-06-2009, 05:08 PM
New best ET & MPH for me driving the 91 without nitrous. This was with the new SCU 4.2 motor that only had about 200 miles on it, being raced on the street tune.

60ft 1.665
1/8 7.455 @ 94.56
1/4 11.602 @ 122.66

David


Looks like the extra displacement did the trick as you picked up some good MPH. Sounds like the 4.2l crank will now be a common thing to do.

CMac89
10-06-2009, 05:10 PM
What can I say, I suck at drag racing and I think my tires are no good. I could not catch anything better then a 1.9 60ft.
I could not shift into fourth on my best pass, and running 13s in an AR powered car is simply embarrasing.


But here are the best of for me.

12.6 ET without shifting into fourth with a 1.9 60ft
Best MPH was a nice 115MPH on a separate run, so the car has powa and could get into the 11s if I can get someone that knows how to drive it and good tires.
I had a good run during eliminations but after beating Rod not knowing I had redlit, I coasted thru the beams thinking I was going to break out of 12.7 index. So no good numbers for my car. Just an impressed Mike Menke and Fraser after letting them drive the car.

Sorry, Rico! I really wanted to help you out, I was just busy trying to get my poop running. I promise to make a couple of passes in it for you next time, haha. Better yet, you and Ira should meet up and just practice like crazy!

Congrats on entering the 12's, though. You just have to be good at drivin them to get into the 11s!!

Micahdogg
10-06-2009, 05:13 PM
New bests:

RT -- .023
60' -- 1.587 :eek: (I didn't even realize this until gathering data for this post)
1/4 -- 11.764
mph -- 119.08

killing at the tree, .054 (me) vs .461 (Neibert :) )

Damn dude. So did you pull the "pops a wheelie" move or what? Good time!

VicRattlehead
10-06-2009, 05:46 PM
New bests:

RT -- .023
60' -- 1.587 :eek: (I didn't even realize this until gathering data for this post)
1/4 -- 11.764
mph -- 119.08

killing at the tree, .054 (me) vs .461 (Neibert :) )

Next year I'll need to pull my seats out too

frdlvr30
10-06-2009, 06:14 PM
Looks like the extra displacement did the trick as you picked up some good MPH. Sounds like the 4.2l crank will now be a common thing to do.

There was another car there with a 4.2L/MPX that was running 11.61@118. On stock valved heads with a slight home port job and a very small cam and running into the rev limiter before the traps. He blew a snout seal in practice though and was on the trailer after that...Even tough it was black and looked just like a Mustang, I was impressed. That car has way more in it...

Thomas A
10-06-2009, 06:59 PM
So who ran the best time and didn't trailer their car to the Shootout this year? :D

Thomas

Kurt K
10-06-2009, 07:18 PM
So who ran the best time and didn't trailer their car to the Shootout this year? :D

ThomasIra???????

Super XR7
10-06-2009, 07:50 PM
My best time was:

R/T .307"
60' 1.865"
330' 5.298"
1/8 8.070" at 88.48 mph
1000' 10.473"
1/4 12.495" at 111.99 mph

with no intercooler, running 15 psi, and Snow Performance cooling - who needs an intercooler?! :D

Mike

Jimmy 2Coupes
10-06-2009, 07:50 PM
Not a new personal best but a new shootout best of 13.008 @ 105.49 mph for my 95 SC. Should have pulled the passenger seat.;);) This is the first shootout in at least two years that I have a DBL intercooler that didn't crack in several places.

CMac89
10-06-2009, 08:19 PM
I think Payton was the fastest without a trailer.

My increments:

60ft: 2.05 (Spin)
330ft: 5.42
660ft: 8.11
MPH: 88.18
1000ft: 10.51
1/4: 12.52
MPH: 114.22

With a homeless tune, 17psi, and no intercooler/meth.

BLOWN38
10-06-2009, 08:22 PM
Only personal best I got was a 60' of 1.675 without the juice.:cool: I think the converter loosened up so I can power brake it up higher now.

David Neibert
10-06-2009, 09:57 PM
Looks like the extra displacement did the trick as you picked up some good MPH. Sounds like the 4.2l crank will now be a common thing to do.

Ricardo,

Yes... I think it did pick up some power based on the higher MPH. The most I ever got off the bottle with the old motor was about 118. Figures...that now that several people have decided to try the 4.2 cast crank, Ford quit making it.

David

pro street rich
10-06-2009, 10:44 PM
I did get a 1180's with a 60 ft someplace around 3weeks due to zero traction. My et streets were worthless at the track, I had a set of snow tires that might have been better..I guess with as much torque as I had nothing short of a full out drag slick would have worked. As it was I was smoking them all the way down the track..Better tires and rims are in order for next year....Rich

Wzenheimer
10-07-2009, 10:06 AM
First time out with the Turbo car and my times are:

R/T.....we wont discuss
60'.....1.571
330....4.416
1/8....6.819 MPH...101.74
1000..8.911
1/4....10.678 MPH...130.05


Chris

Ira R.
10-07-2009, 10:27 AM
Ira???????

Payton probably, although I may have been second.

Ira

ScrapSC
10-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I ended up driving the ole Silver heap home after Danny had some problems and we had to trailer his home. It wasnt my best time but if I hadnt of lifted I might of been on in the 11's when I ran against Kurt in the "run off" and would have had my best. I lifted way before the end of the track and ran a 12.08 at 104mph. The best to date I have a time slip for is a 12.07.

1.66 60ft
7.64 1/8th
12.08 @ 104.2 mph

Best mph of the day was 114.6 on the 12.11 run with a 7.71 1/8th. Thats what I get for trying to not break out!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

frdlvr30
10-07-2009, 07:35 PM
I ended up driving the ole Silver heap home after Danny had some problems and we had to trailer his home. It wasnt my best time but if I hadnt of lifted I might of been on in the 11's when I ran against Kurt in the "run off" and would have had my best. I lifted way before the end of the track and ran a 12.08 at 104mph. The best to date I have a time slip for is a 12.07.

1.66 60ft
7.64 1/8th
12.08 @ 104.2 mph

Best mph of the day was 114.6 on the 12.11 run with a 7.71 1/8th. Thats what I get for trying to not break out!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Yeah, judging by your 1/8th mile time you could have easily ran a 11.7 or so id say.

Payton
10-07-2009, 07:39 PM
Yeah, looks like mine. Brought me home, more then 8 hours at 70-80mph:rolleyes: that's something special! The only down side is that I fried my cam sensor on the way to the Shoot out and DIS on the way home:o

XxSlowpokexX
10-07-2009, 10:30 PM
So who has the official quickest 1.7, 2.0 and m90 cars of the day.? Who are the track kings?

As far as inverted setups Im sure well see more of this next year!

BLOWN38
10-07-2009, 11:46 PM
I was the quickest m112.:D
Kevin's the quickest m90, duh.:) Anthony 2nd
The 3 whipples where close to each other.

Thomas A
10-07-2009, 11:50 PM
I think I counted at least 10 twin screw setups this past weekend. We have come a long ways over the past few years as a group! :cool:

Thomas

ScrapSC
10-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Yeh Kevin is by far the quickest M-90!!!! I guess mine is 2nd with Chris right there with me. I think there was only .03 or so seperating us during the qualifying and runs made. For some reason my car decided to run really well on the last run of the day against Kurt and looks like it could have been an 11.90's run, but I lifted. So, I hope I can get that accomplished at the Halloween Midnight runs at the local 1/4 mile we have.

David Neibert
10-08-2009, 01:14 PM
First time out with the Turbo car and my times are:

R/T.....we wont discuss
60'.....1.571
330....4.416
1/8....6.819 MPH...101.74
1000..8.911
1/4....10.678 MPH...130.05


Chris

Chris,

Those are some very impressive numbers...especially when considering it's a full weight street car.

David

T1Bird
10-08-2009, 01:23 PM
I ended up driving the ole Silver heap home after Danny had some problems and we had to trailer his home. It wasnt my best time but if I hadnt of lifted I might of been on in the 11's when I ran against Kurt in the "run off" and would have had my best. I lifted way before the end of the track and ran a 12.08 at 104mph. The best to date I have a time slip for is a 12.07.

1.66 60ft
7.64 1/8th
12.08 @ 104.2 mph

Best mph of the day was 114.6 on the 12.11 run with a 7.71 1/8th. Thats what I get for trying to not break out!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Anthony, I knew I should have come this year, Im sure we could have shed some more weight to get you into the 11's like we did at last years shootout

BLOWN38
10-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Yeh Kevin is by far the quickest M-90!!!! I guess mine is 2nd with Chris right there with me. I think there was only .03 or so seperating us during the qualifying and runs made. For some reason my car decided to run really well on the last run of the day against Kurt and looks like it could have been an 11.90's run, but I lifted. So, I hope I can get that accomplished at the Halloween Midnight runs at the local 1/4 mile we have.

I had a sweet run goin against Tuck in our 1st elimination round. I lifted and went 12.18 at 106. My MPH all day was 111. I hate that so much right when your car is running its best ya gotta lift cause you're in elim's.:rolleyes: That was the run my best 60' came on.

ScrapSC
10-08-2009, 02:17 PM
I usually just hammer it on out the back door but lifted trying not to break out. Man I wish I hadnt of done it!!! :mad: Your car and mine where running some bracket times there Chris!

ScrapSC
10-08-2009, 02:19 PM
Anthony, I knew I should have come this year, Im sure we could have shed some more weight to get you into the 11's like we did at last years shootout

Yeh I missed ya Bruce!!!!!!!

XR7 Dave
10-09-2009, 01:09 AM
You guys both suck big fat turds for lifting. :mad: I think that's really lame. I'd much rather make a kickass run than a stinkin trophy. By lifting you guys have set the stage for converting the entire event over to bracket racing. I thought we had a gentleman's agreement not to sand bag. :confused:

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 01:27 AM
index racing = lift/brakes/sandbag

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 01:29 AM
dave,

can you explain how the ladders were formed for first round in mod2?

how does a 12.2 car end up running a 13.3 car?

can you post all the times from qualifying for the mod 2 cars, and then the parings for round 1 of elims.

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 06:34 AM
dave,

can you explain how the ladders were formed for first round in mod2?

how does a 12.2 car end up running a 13.3 car?

can you post all the times from qualifying for the mod 2 cars, and then the parings for round 1 of elims.

Keith,
Like I told you in the staging lanes I had 5 practice runs, 1st ever, in my car. My car on motor was running like doo-doo and my 1st 2 runs were in the 13.4 range. I was frustrated so I sprayed a 50 shot to see what it would do and I ran a 12.7?, I then put the 75 nitrous jet in but stayed with the 50 gas jet and ran a 12.5?, turned right around and hot lapped a 12.7?. I discussed with Dave D. my runs, me being a rookie, and he helped me decide to run mod 2. After the car sat for 1 hour we ran our class qualifying runs and that's when it ran a 12.2. I had no intentions of "sandbagging", I honestly had no idea what my car would do. By next year I will know exactly what it will do so with a little luck and a good tune I plan on running around 11.50-11.70 so I'll be in the Pro class.

By the way, on my 1st practice run I ran you and you turned a 12.6 according to my time slip.

Roadhawg
10-09-2009, 07:42 AM
You guys both suck big fat turds for lifting. :mad: I think that's really lame. I'd much rather make a kickass run than a stinkin trophy. By lifting you guys have set the stage for converting the entire event over to bracket racing. I thought we had a gentleman's agreement not to sand bag. :confused:

Seems to me, for a few people it was their first time on the track or the first time with their current setup. This situation does not lend itself to index style racing. The index race would work great everyone was a seasoned racer and the cars where perfectly setup to run the index which they chose. Also with an intercooled setup, sometimes a hot lap can make a big difference in your ET. I think a bracket racing format is a better approach. It not only helps level the playing field, it makes people more aware of what their car is doing.

ScrapSC
10-09-2009, 08:05 AM
You guys both suck big fat turds for lifting. :mad: I think that's really lame. I'd much rather make a kickass run than a stinkin trophy. By lifting you guys have set the stage for converting the entire event over to bracket racing. I thought we had a gentleman's agreement not to sand bag. :confused:

Hey I agreed not to hit the brakes!! LOL :D I guess we need to say "All out" in every class then. No lifting, No braking. I wasnt sand bagging either. Hell I didnt even know what the car was going to do. But when you tear a supercharger apart and put one together in the pits, then fire it up and head to the staging lanes you have know idea what it is going to do. I ended up running a 12.11 on a 12.10 dial for the Mod III class.

Kurt K
10-09-2009, 08:08 AM
Seems to me, for a few people it was their first time on the track or the first time with their current setup. This situation does not lend itself to index style racing. The index race would work great everyone was a seasoned racer and the cars where perfectly setup to run the index which they chose. Also with an intercooled setup, sometimes a hot lap can make a big difference in your ET. I think a bracket racing format is a better approach. It not only helps level the playing field, it makes people more aware of what their car is doing.
There are bracket classes if that's what you want to do. Although I complained about the indexes since my car was 2 tenths too fast for the next slower index, I decided to rip more of my interior out and see what it would do. Turns out I never got faster than my new personal best of 11.76 (a 1/4 second away from the bottom of the index of 11.50), but when combined with cutting good lights, I was able to win the class.

Most of us are track weekend warriors at best, with many only going to the track for the Shootout, so even bracket racing for the majority woudn't be any better of an option.

And I don't agree with the comment about bracket racing "makes people more aware of what their car is doing". If you don't know what your car is doing when you go WOT for the entire 1/4 mile, how will you know what you car does when you coast near the end (or hit the brakes)?

Roadhawg
10-09-2009, 08:48 AM
And I don't agree with the comment about bracket racing "makes people more aware of what their car is doing". If you don't know what your car is doing when you go WOT for the entire 1/4 mile, how will you know what you car does when you coast near the end (or hit the brakes)?

When you get to the end of the 1/4 after a WOT run and your time increases or decreases, you can change your dial in accordingly. Also I guess I am an adrenalin junkie because, I did not realize there was any thing but WOT.

fturner
10-09-2009, 09:17 AM
I think the index classes are a good approach... if you end up breaking into the next class because suddenly you found a better groove then hey, so be it... you ran faster than you thought you would, be happy.

This happened to me. I was all set to run Superstock because that is where the car ran constantly at the track up here, ie I averaged very low 13.91's even hot lapping the car. My car decided it could do better that day and broke into mod1 index during time trials and I ran a 13.7xx on street tires... thems the brakes, and I got put out during the racing, but I'm more than happy because the car ran so good anyway.

I could have just as easily stayed in SS and let up the gas but is that being fair to the others... no.

Fraser

CMac89
10-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Hey I agreed not to hit the brakes!! LOL :D I guess we need to say "All out" in every class then. No lifting, No braking. I wasnt sand bagging either. Hell I didnt even know what the car was going to do. But when you tear a supercharger apart and put one together in the pits, then fire it up and head to the staging lanes you have know idea what it is going to do. I ended up running a 12.11 on a 12.10 dial for the Mod III class.

Something close to Pinks All Out would be a nice setup. I think the time constraints may be a conflict, though. I definitely like the class index's, so that style shouldn't change. Instead of making practice runs for a few hours, having intermission, then taking one qualifying run, and jumping straight into eliminations; it makes sense to cut off some practice runs, then have around two to three qualifying runs. If these runs were logged for each car, then you could conjure up an index according to the majority of the runs. I understand how that would be a pain, but it forces cars to run all out, because they won't be trying to figure out how to slow their cars down to match the index. Then maybe classes would be more balanced instead of 3 cars in Mod 3 and 9 in Mod 2.

XR7 Dave
10-09-2009, 09:54 AM
Both the people above who "lifted" are "seasoned" racers, at least compared to everyone else who was there. :p

By trying to cut a good light you run the risk of red lighting. By running flat out you run the risk of breaking out of your class. That's racing. Lifting throttle is like taking a dive in the boxing ring to waste time for the chance to make it to the next round. It works but it's lame. I'd rather 'go out in flames' than turn tail in an effort to get into the next round.

But that's me.

We've always had a "no lift" policy at the Shootout. How well people have observed that is a matter of some question.

Keith, after I realized that the ladders weren't making sense I questioned the tower on how they were doing it and that is when I realized that the tower staff is not very experienced at running ladders. All of the tracks we've been to in the past 4 years have had automated software for generating ladders, but Muncie does not have this. Normally the software (when running in Sportsman mode) will generate ladders based on ET, but in this case the girl in the tower was doing it by hand and some of her pairings did not make sense. Also, she was selecting bye runs based on reaction time not ET, so that was creating more confusion.

I had a hard time explaining what we were trying to accomplish and ended up having to explain it 3 times, once for each of the people in the tower. Next time I'll have it all written out and make them sign it. :p

ricardoa1
10-09-2009, 10:05 AM
Eliminations was my 6th or 7th run that I had made for the year with the set up. I ran a 12.6 and a 12.7 but most of the time I was running high 12 and even 13s so I agreed on Mod2. But after getting out of the hole in what I thought was a good one. I did lift so I did not repeat the 12.6 or better that I had. I guess I felt a breakout coming and thats why I lifted. Karma got me and gave me a redlight anyways. Its tought not having practice and staying competitive, I know I would not have a chance in MOD3 so what handicap can I use?

XR7 Dave
10-09-2009, 10:17 AM
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing.

The Shootout is a chance to run your car at the same track as everyone else so you can compare results. If someone dyno's 450rwhp and the guy next to him dyno's 325rwhp but both people run the same, that tells you that the dyno numbers are suspect and that both cars are running very similar. To me this is the most important thing that the Shootout offers you - the chance to compare your car to the next guy.

If you are focussing on just winning a trophy at all costs, you've missed the entire point of the event.

Ricardo, you should have run the car out as hard as you possibly could. As it is you didn't win the trophy anyway (remember there is only ever one winner per class) and you missed out on the opportunity to find out just how fast your car can go. Now you'll have all winter to wonder and fuss about your car and you'll have to wait until next year to find out what it can run. Same goes for Anthony who lifted on what could have been a record breaking run. I think that is a shame and a waste.

I'd much rather lose by breaking out than to lose by not having enough or sleeping at the light.

ScrapSC
10-09-2009, 11:04 AM
Yeh I screwed up. Wont happen again!:mad: I will be heading to the track a few more times before the year is out and hope to get that elusive 11's time slip. But like Dave said, it is a comparison of your car against the others on the same day at the same track with the same conditions. The conditions got better as the day went on and the car started picking up. I also hit the shifts just right on that past with the best 60ft to date. Not to bad for what the "dyno" says is a 327 rwhp car.

Ira R.
10-09-2009, 11:19 AM
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing.

The Shootout is a chance to run your car at the same track as everyone else so you can compare results. If someone dyno's 450rwhp and the guy next to him dyno's 325rwhp but both people run the same, that tells you that the dyno numbers are suspect and that both cars are running very similar. To me this is the most important thing that the Shootout offers you - the chance to compare your car to the next guy.

If you are focussing on just winning a trophy at all costs, you've missed the entire point of the event.

Ricardo, you should have run the car out as hard as you possibly could. As it is you didn't win the trophy anyway (remember there is only ever one winner per class) and you missed out on the opportunity to find out just how fast your car can go. Now you'll have all winter to wonder and fuss about your car and you'll have to wait until next year to find out what it can run. Same goes for Anthony who lifted on what could have been a record breaking run. I think that is a shame and a waste.

I'd much rather lose by breaking out than to lose by not having enough or sleeping at the light.

Indeed. I mean come one, if you don't run flat out what's the point. He$$ I ran a full second off my index all day long but just because I was having a bad day doesn't mean I was going to drop down a class to try and win a trophy.

The car is capable of running Pro Stock and should have. The fact that it didn't doesn't mean I didn't belong in that class. Now what would the results have been had I dropped a class and won...... at at least a half a second slower then the car is capable of running? You think there would have been some eyes raised then??

This whole event is for one year's bragging rights. Quickest, fastest, cleanest, dumbest, most improved...... there's a long list of things to be proud of that you can take home from this event. It should be all out balls to the wall. Otherwise what's the point. You want to win a trophy for something go to your local track and bracket race there. This is where you should be showing your friends what all the hard work you did over the winter was for; not your racing tricks.

At least that's my two cents worth.......

Ira

Slysc
10-09-2009, 11:27 AM
Index racing is pretty similar to bracket racing I think. It would be hard not to back out a bit if it was going to make the difference between winning and disqualification. In a competition, is the objective is to win.

Although there were some difficulties with the classes being determined based upon how cars are set up, I thought it was the most exciting. There was no reason to sandbag. If you had a 13 second car that had the same mods as an 11 second car you would loose. It brought out a creative and innovative nature to get the SC to go as fast as it could within a certain set of rules. That's just me. Not everyone feels that way.

DrFishbone
10-09-2009, 11:36 AM
I guess I got the effect you intended Dave...I remember after I qualified in SS with a 13.968 that the thought crossed my mind to not push it too hard next time, or I would breakout...but when my next run came around, I said to myself "I don't care! - Let's see what WE can do!" My goals were to run as fast as I could, to get better at drag racing (since I'd never even VISITED a dragstrip before), and to drive the car home! I ended up NOT breaking out, but just barely...my final eliminations (against the ghost of Chris) run was best of the day - 13.93x!! I think my car is a bit faster...but I went as fast as I could with the skills I had on that day and it was a blast! :D

What's really fun is FORCING someone to breakout. :D:D:D:D Of course, it's not by skill in my case, but it was neat anyway.

BTW...was anyone else running a Magnuson or MP2 at the shootout? I'm trying to compare my setup (w/Magnuson) to the MPX. I'm split on whether I should try to find a MPX or work with what I have...

kenewagner
10-09-2009, 11:44 AM
I didnt care if I broke out or not. I would have been pleased as hell to break out. Two years ago I ran 13.6 on street tires. This year I ran a best of 12.797 and was just under 110mph. If I had pulled a 12.6 I would have just grinned from ear to ear:D Next year, I will be looking for an 11 second run. Wont see me let up cuz I just want to go faster and faster;)

Ken

Wzenheimer
10-09-2009, 11:56 AM
After all the confusion at the tree during the First Outlaw final. I completely re-staged and then made as best a pass as I could. Which BTW was the best of the day. On the second Outlaw Final, I completely goofed and slipped my finger off the Trans Brake. So then I just ran without it and ran an 11.2 @130mph.

I would like to point out that the original intent of the Shootout was to run Headsup. The first shootout didn't have any indexs but it rather grouped cars by the MODS they had done. Indexs came later and IMHO is an easier way to seperate cars.


Chris,

Those are some very impressive numbers...especially when considering it's a full weight street car.

David

I'd like to bring it by CME some day and see what it weighs. To be honest, I didn't think the care would run faster than an 11.0. I thought for sure it would limp outta the whole.

Chris

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Keith,
Like I told you in the staging lanes I had 5 practice runs, 1st ever, in my car. My car on motor was running like doo-doo and my 1st 2 runs were in the 13.4 and range. I was frustrated so I sprayed a 50 shot to see what it would do and I ran a 12.7?, I then put the 75 nitrous jet in but left the 50 gas jet and ran a 12.5?, turned right around and hot lapped a 12.7?. I discussed with Dave D. my runs and he helped me decide to run mod 2. After the car sat for 1 hour we ran our class qualifying runs and that's when it ran a 12.2. I had no intentions of "sandbagging", I honestly had no idea what my car would do. By next year I will know exactly what it will do with a little luck and a good tune I plan on running around 11.50 so I'll be in the Pro class.

By the way, on my 1st practice run I ran you and you turned a 12.6 according to my time slip.


did i run a 12.60 yes. is that the fastest pass from the car, no 12.41 at nmra joliet in july. did i say anything about you sandbagging? no. do i care, no not really, i was there to run my race, not worry about the car next to me. what i didnt reveal is the fact that in my last tnt run against paul, my et fell off like a cliff. so back to the pits i went, put the new bottle in the hotbox to get the pressure up. i figured id run qualifying with the empty bottle and just get on the ladder and swap bottles in time for round 1. I didnt know that the new bottle wouldnt work with my AN fittings so now i had a really hot bottle with maybe 600psi in it. so i swapped the 125 n2o jet with my 150 jet and hoped for the best. I know you knew i could run the number and some so i was just hoping you would push the tree and go red, but that didnt happen. i made the best run i could with what i had, it looked like you lifted a little after half track, i dont blame ya for that, why risk breaking out on a 'gimmie' pass.

as far as the ladder, id like everyone that ran mod2 to post their qualifying time id like to see what it was suppose to be.

the bye run, ive seen it done by reaction time and et. all depends on who's running the show. its a 50/50 on what ive seen.


mine 13.360

David Neibert
10-09-2009, 03:23 PM
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing.

The Shootout is a chance to run your car at the same track as everyone else so you can compare results. If someone dyno's 450rwhp and the guy next to him dyno's 325rwhp but both people run the same, that tells you that the dyno numbers are suspect and that both cars are running very similar. To me this is the most important thing that the Shootout offers you - the chance to compare your car to the next guy.

If you are focussing on just winning a trophy at all costs, you've missed the entire point of the event.

Ricardo, you should have run the car out as hard as you possibly could. As it is you didn't win the trophy anyway (remember there is only ever one winner per class) and you missed out on the opportunity to find out just how fast your car can go. Now you'll have all winter to wonder and fuss about your car and you'll have to wait until next year to find out what it can run. Same goes for Anthony who lifted on what could have been a record breaking run. I think that is a shame and a waste.

I'd much rather lose by breaking out than to lose by not having enough or sleeping at the light.

Losing by not having enough car or sleeping at the lights are not really in the same catagory as lifting, braking or running in a slower class than the car is capable of.

I came to the Shootout with a car that was intended to be competitive in Pro Street that had not been on the track since installing the new motor. While it wasn't quite running the ETs I wanted on every pass, I think it was still the fastest car in the class.

I will admit to purposely having a worse RT that usual on one pass in the eliminations, because I didn't want to redlight (like that would ever happen :o) against a car that I was sure I could beat to the finish line. I didn't consider that sandbagging because it had no effect on the ET and a negative effect on my ability to win the race. Did the same thing 2 years ago when racing Tim K.

I tried to run the fastest, quickest pass I could every time I went down the track...in other words, I ran the car ALL OUT. The fact that I tend to sleep at the tree or hit the rev limiter between shifts ocassionally, doesn't mean I was trying to avoid breaking out. I would gladly have traded my runner up trophy for an 11.4 timeslip.

So please don't lump us snoozers in with the sandbaggers.

David

kenewagner
10-09-2009, 03:41 PM
as far as the ladder, id like everyone that ran mod2 to post their qualifying time id like to see what it was suppose to be.



mine 13.360

Mod 2 Qualifying round was
R/T .140
60' 1.93
1/4 12.90
MPH 109.54

Lost first round with a 13.087 when I hit the rev limiter between 1st & 2nd. It was the only 13 second run all day for me and the best was a 12.797
No sandbagging here:D

Ken

neverfastenough
10-09-2009, 04:04 PM
I red lighted,:o

BLOWN38
10-09-2009, 04:14 PM
I thought the point of racing was to win! In the race I had with Tuck it would have been foolish to not lift for the split second I did and loose the race to a car that was half second slower. A racer is a racer we go out to win. I have more time and will be going to more track days to tweek the setup I have now, which I had very minimal time on before the shootout. By me lifting it made the final in mod 3 a more interesting one. I wish there where more cars in the class but there wasn't. If I coulda ran pro street I would have, I wanna be the fastest guy out there with the setup I have. I wanna beat AR cars with bigger blowers and turbo cars with the little m90, that just didn't work out for me this year. If I had more time with the borrowed blower I have I coulda gave Rico what he wanted. I will keep gettin it this year and prove the blower for him! I've kinda been tied up with another record this year and haven't been able to give the attention to my car that I would like.

I also believe the air was alot better at the end of the day. My car in t&t only ran 12.3 I pulled the seats to get down about a .1 and qualified at a 12.19 right on the bubble.

A suggestion for future shootouts with index racing. If we are setting our cars up to run a certain class we are gonna be right there on the index. Maybe we should implement a .1 breakout allowance? I don't want to lift but if the guy next to me is that much slower I'm not gonna throw away the race either.

And in pinks all out they basically have the .1 breakout rule. They say you went to fast if you go .3 quicker from what I can tell watching the shows. Its hard with these cars to keep them consistent especially when the air gets better.

Watch out for me next year... I hope... If I get what I think Ima get!;) Just have to figure out if I really want a bar in the car.:confused:

ricardoa1
10-09-2009, 04:28 PM
I kinda agree with Chis on this one I did not want to throw away the race so I lifted. What the point of the trophy if winning is not the case. During the morning qualifying is where I tried my best to see what the car had. The car was running on the fence of two indexes how else can you do it. I know I was not going to run a 12.1 even if I tried hard, I just dont have the seat time or the tires. Ill bench it out next time if this creates a big problem. How about giving the 5spd guys a larger breakout buffer then the auto guys. Its been proven time and again that for consistency AUTOs dominate. So how do you keep the 5spd guys interested in the game if against Autos.

David Neibert
10-09-2009, 04:41 PM
How about giving the 5spd guys a larger breakout buffer then the auto guys. Its been proven time and again that for consistency AUTOs dominate. So how do you keep the 5spd guys interested in the game if against Autos.


Ricardo,

Autos are not always a model of consistency. I made 6 passes the entire day...they ranged from a 12.1 to an 11.60..and I had several 11.8s and 11.7s in between.

David

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 04:45 PM
yea there are alot of autos that are manually shifting them. so no sympathy for you guys.

and whats the problem, every 5speed guy i know says that auto's are junk and they can outshift an auto any day any time anywhere.

ricardoa1
10-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Ricardo,

Autos are not always a model of consistency. I made 6 passes the entire day...they ranged from a 12.1 to an 11.60..and I had several 11.8s and 11.7s in between.

David

Aside from your 12.1 you are .3 within sounds pretty consistent to me. ;)

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 04:48 PM
yea there are alot of autos that are manually shifting them. so no sympathy for you guys.

and whats the problem, every 5speed guy i know says that auto's are junk and they can outshift an auto any day any time anywhere.

My 1st run I manually shifted but after that I put in in drive and let her rip...............:rolleyes:

frdlvr30
10-09-2009, 04:53 PM
Just have to figure out if I really want a bar in the car.:confused:

I wouldnt do it. The cops really frown on cars full of alcohol....

BLOWN38
10-09-2009, 05:16 PM
I wouldnt do it. The cops really frown on cars full of alcohol....

It's already got one of those bars in it!:D It's a junkie thru and thru... nitrous, meth, you name it its got it. I was talking about a roll bar.;):D

I was thinking of getting a license plate that says ALKYHLC or JUNKY but figured the cops may give me crap for that. Whatta ya think?

David Neibert
10-09-2009, 05:23 PM
It's already got one of those bars in it!:D It's a junkie thru and thru... nitrous, meth, you name it its got it. I was talking about a roll bar.;):D

I was thinking of getting a license plate that says ALKYHLC or JUNKY but figured the cops may give me crap for that. Whatta ya think?

I like it, but others probably won't get it. Micah Miller has plates that read FORCED 6 and someone complained to the state of IL office that issues plates, because they thought it meant Forced Sex as in rape.

I wanted to get some vanity plates, but the only thing I could think of was BEER ME and that probably wouldn't go over to well with the law either.

David

rzimmerl
10-09-2009, 05:26 PM
Mod 2 I qualified with a ~12.8. I had no idea what my setup would do with the new engine and higher stall converter since it had a whopping 500 miles on it, I just got it running for 7 days before the shootout, and was just tuned 1 hour prior to practice. The car ran 12.8-13. all morning in practice and qualifying. Ran 12.8-12.9 thru the rounds untill the semi's. We were dead even at the 330, the 1/8 and the 1000, so I kept my foot in it and broke out with a 12.54. I really didn't care because I knew the run was fast and was going to be my PB, and I am glad I did. But back to the race I lost the break out by .03 but the other car ran 5mph faster then me, and we were not side by side at the line by even a car, so I'll leave it at that.......

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 05:31 PM
Mod 2 I qualified with a ~12.8. ..

need the actual number not an estimate. 12.xxx

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Mod 2 I qualified with a ~12.8. I had no idea what my setup would do with the new engine and higher stall converter since it had a whopping 500 miles on it, I just got it running for 7 days before the shootout, and was just tuned 1 hour prior to practice. The car ran 12.7-12.8 all morning in practice and qualifying. Ran 12.7-12.8 thru the rounds untill the semi's. We were dead even at the 330, the 1/8 and the 1000, so I kept my foot in it and broke out with a 12.54. I really didn't care because I knew the run was fast and was going to be my PB, and I am glad I did. But back to the race I lost the break out by .03 but the other car ran 5mph faster then me, and we were not side by side at the line by even a car, so I'll leave it at that.......

As you know I was having to play with the throttle because my car was running kinda quick for the class, I was on and off the gas probably 3 times trying to just stay ahead of you, I guess I did it one too many times and you beat me across the line. If you could have been in my car at that moment you would have heard every cuzz word probably 3 times.:eek: Then to my total surprize when we got our slips I couldn't believe it........I won because you broke out more than me...........:rolleyes: Ryan your car runs absolutely fantastic, once I get tuned I should be right with you on motor.........:D

rzimmerl
10-09-2009, 05:56 PM
Ryan your car runs absolutely fantastic, once I get tuned I should be right with you on motor

We'll see next year. I am only running a home ported 94 blower with an MP plenum and 20% overdrive currently and was at the shootout, next year the 1.7 AR should/will be on there...:D

ScrapSC
10-09-2009, 06:45 PM
Ahh he77 did I know I was gonna be on the best pass ever for my car? Nope. Did I know that the car was gonna gain .4 to .5 from time runs? Nope. Would I have lifted if I had known the car was on an 11.80 or 90 run? Hell NO! Hell I didnt think I was gonna even be running due to my supercharger taking a crap. It was my fault that the MPX took a dump on me. I will admit that to anyone.

But you can ask about anyone in the pits that 30 minutes before qualifying I was handed an MPX case and some rotors "To DO WORK!" and with help had it on and swapped out in 20 minutes. So when I got my first time pass of 12.11 I was :eek:!!!! No way!!! Then as the day went on the air got better and I hit my shifts in the sweet spot and the car gained from a 12.33 to 12.08 and could have been better. Was awsome lining up against Chris in the finals knowing it could come down to the light!!! Man that gets you amped up!!!!!! Hell of a group of guys.

Hell I can remember when I just wanted to get the car in the 13's and was shooting for that 12.88 that Coy Miller ran. Wow! Have we come a long way or not?!!!! I enjoy watching all the cars at the track and love how enthusiastic we are and willing to lend a helping hand to any of our SC brothers. So, even though I admitted to lifting and am an a$$ for it, I still had a great time! LOL

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 07:11 PM
We'll see next year. I am only running a home ported 94 blower with an MP plenum and 20% overdrive currently and was at the shootout, next year the 1.7 AR should/will be on there...:D

Well..........in that case I should be right with you on motor plus nitrous.........:D

I might just have to bump it up to a 100 shot.........:eek:

racecougar
10-09-2009, 07:41 PM
I'd like to bring it by CME some day and see what it weighs.

I've had trouble getting an accurate weight reading on that scale, but it'll give you a ballpark idea.


Keith, my qualifying run was a 12.947 @ 106.67 with a .142 RT.

Mercutio
10-09-2009, 08:04 PM
I have a set of 4-wheel scales. I'll consider bringing them next year if people want to know what their cars weigh.

VicRattlehead
10-09-2009, 08:14 PM
I have a set of 4-wheel scales. I'll consider bringing them next year if people want to know what their cars weigh.

i was hoping for a scale at the track. when i was at joliet it was 3805 with almost a full tank of gas, id of liked to check the weight with most of that out. to bad the track didnt have a scale.

next year if you could pack them that would be great!!

Payton
10-09-2009, 08:25 PM
I have a set of 4-wheel scales. I'll consider bringing them next year if people want to know what their cars weigh.

That would be great Will!:cool:

Roadhawg
10-09-2009, 08:32 PM
From a spectator point of view there where some great races. Then there were some races where more peddling was going on then a pair of Bigwheels and I know a few of you guys are old enough to of had a Bigwheel. Also another great thing was the whine of the SC, not many times do you get to hear SC whine on nearly every pass at the drag strip.

Kurt K
10-09-2009, 08:36 PM
I have a set of 4-wheel scales. I'll consider bringing them next year if people want to know what their cars weigh.
Kevin brought his scales to the Shootout a few years ago. At Joilet, with 3/4 tank of gas and my heavy Foose wheels on the front, mine weighed 4030 with me in it. I saved 66 lbs with my skinnies and probably another 40 with removing the back fold-down leather seat. So I still weighed around 3900 when racing in Muncie.

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 08:58 PM
I don't know what mine weighs but I'm sure it's at least 4000 lbs. with me in it. I believe the moonroof models are a little heavier. Next year I'll have my new fiberglass cowl hood on, lightweight racing seats and rear seat delete in for the track, already have lightweight wheels. Ohhhh and a good tune.

Payton
10-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Too many guys are getting serious about their cars...very impressive and scary;)

nickleman60
10-09-2009, 09:32 PM
Too many guys are getting serious about their cars...very impressive and scary;)

I've spent tooooo much money on my car, meaning motor, to be running 12's. Once I get into the 11's, which should be just a tune away, I'm done modifying and I'm going to enjoy it.

Gotta admit, going down the track has me itching for more speed............:D

1MTNCAT
10-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Ricardo,

Autos are not always a model of consistency. I made 6 passes the entire day...they ranged from a 12.1 to an 11.60..and I had several 11.8s and 11.7s in between.

David

Dave, I'm assuming you are manually shifting your automatic?

I can make 25 passes in a day with my auto shifting on its own and as long as the weather stays the same and the track is comparable it'll run within a 1/10 all day long. If you are varying that much with the auto then you have a problem somewhere.

Payton
10-09-2009, 10:54 PM
Dave, I'm assuming you are manually shifting your automatic?

I can make 25 passes in a day with my auto shifting on its own and as long as the weather stays the same and the track is comparable it'll run within a 1/10 all day long. If you are varying that much with the auto then you have a problem somewhere.

Question: if you are getting so close ET's, what;s a point making 25 passes and beating on the car?:rolleyes:

1MTNCAT
10-09-2009, 11:24 PM
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing.

The Shootout is a chance to run your car at the same track as everyone else so you can compare results. If someone dyno's 450rwhp and the guy next to him dyno's 325rwhp but both people run the same, that tells you that the dyno numbers are suspect and that both cars are running very similar. To me this is the most important thing that the Shootout offers you - the chance to compare your car to the next guy.

If you are focussing on just winning a trophy at all costs, you've missed the entire point of the event.

Ricardo, you should have run the car out as hard as you possibly could. As it is you didn't win the trophy anyway (remember there is only ever one winner per class) and you missed out on the opportunity to find out just how fast your car can go. Now you'll have all winter to wonder and fuss about your car and you'll have to wait until next year to find out what it can run. Same goes for Anthony who lifted on what could have been a record breaking run. I think that is a shame and a waste.

I'd much rather lose by breaking out than to lose by not having enough or sleeping at the light.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave, Sorry I wasn't able to make it this year. I just want to make a couple comments here. First I disagree with your comparison statement above. The HP dyno numbers basically mean nothing on the track. Yes, a 450HP car should outrun/perform a 325 HP car on the track. It don't always work that way. From experience over the years I've seen many less powered vehicles outrun higher HP versions. Thats a fact. That basically comes down to driver and car. Traction, reaction times, and various other things come into play there not just pure dyno numbers. If its an equal playing field and all things come into play are equal yes, the High HP version will win hands down. Like they say, thats why you race. On a positive note, your brackets do give folks with similar mods the opportunity to line up, same day, same track, same conditions to see who has the most. Thats a great thing. A lot is left to driving skill.

I do agree with your statement of running the cars out full bore (All out). You might consider like the NMRA does/did and give a 1-2/10ths break out on the classes in the elimination rounds or just drop the Index dial all together at that point for that particular class. That way there is no breakout loss. But there can be no further changes to the car at that point either. At least they are grouped together with the similar mods to be eligible for that class. If you take 3 cars with the same mods there should not be over 1/2 second apart, all things, considered unless there is something mechanical going on with the car.

If you tried it this way that would allow the cars that pick up in the day to run to the cars potential and for bragging rights, and the trophy (less lifting).
To do this the mods would have to be strictly adhered too. We all are aware that cars can and do sometimes pick up in different weather conditions. It would allow for that and maybe for some more records to actually be broken/set without fear of losing a shot at the trophy. At the end of the day the top dog standing in the class would get the trophy.

Again, its not my affair here but just something to give some thought to!

As far using the reaction times for the bye runs, nearly all the tracks I've ever run on use that exact system to set up bye runs. If its your event and track rental I'm assuming they can set it up anyway you like, in advance.

You guys have a wonderful venue to participate in. There are always things that can be changed to improve matters. I do agree with Dave that it should be set up so there is no reason to lift at these event. YOUR NEXT BEST ET MAY BE RIGHT AT THAT STRIPE!!!!

Just my 2 cents!!! ;)

XxSlowpokexX
10-09-2009, 11:25 PM
Chris,

Those are some very impressive numbers...especially when considering it's a full weight street car.

David

I want what Chris has!

XxSlowpokexX
10-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Yah people are going to sandbag by nature of the way the racing is setup.

How about have a winner for best ET per class regardless of reaction time or running to fast then the typical trophy type racing you are doing



That may nto get rid of all the sandbaggers but it will definitely make that one guy thats flying not think of it!

1MTNCAT
10-09-2009, 11:42 PM
Question: if you are getting so close ET's, what;s a point making 25 passes and beating on the car?:rolleyes:

I don't beat on the car at all. I race. The MAMN12 group are invitees to several of the local Mustang T & Tune days at the local tracks here. When we get the opportunity we get together and we get runs in. We make some changes here and there, get seat time, work on reaction times and tweak the cars as best we can. At times I've had over 25 passes in a single day in the car. When I have time and its available I run the street classes at the local track and a whole host of other track events.

Besides driving it around, its had over a thousand (Yes) thousand of passes over the 13 years I've owned it.

Every pass is a learning experience and seat time.

racecougar
10-09-2009, 11:50 PM
I just have to say that I think the event has become a little better with each change over the years. I have no complaints at all with how it was set up this year. Yes, no matter what, you'll have some people sandbagging. That's where headgames, making changes to your car, and hitting your index come into play. If you're nailing the tree and running right at your index, the "sandbagger" is going to have a tough time not breaking out.

Pablo94SC
10-10-2009, 12:13 AM
BTW...was anyone else running a Magnuson or MP2 at the shootout? I'm trying to compare my setup (w/Magnuson) to the MPX. I'm split on whether I should try to find a MPX or work with what I have...

MP2 @ 10% OD

12.788 @ 106.01 Best ET
12.964 @ 108.12 Best MPH (qualifying round)

XxSlowpokexX
10-10-2009, 12:56 AM
As in Magnusun S port?...People with S ports have gotten deep into the 12's..If you are talking MPII the same.

There are just so many variables//With meth or without. Different IC setups..Tunes..

But it seems s port an MPII's have sim capabilities from what I been seeing. I actually like dmy s port bette rthen teh MPII...And not because my MPII blew up..Just seemed better at the OD I was running

I gues this all goes back to a top SC list and how to put one together.

I'd love to see a list where you can single out mods such as supercharger.

XR7 Dave
10-10-2009, 02:34 AM
I ran 12.48 @ 111mph with my bone stock Magnusen S-Port (I think that was making 13.5psi at the time). Bruce Burns has it now and has run 12.97 @ 108mph with his internally stock engine (and a lot more boost).

Guys, I really want people to run all out. I see the Shootout as the one, 100% verifiable place to run a best time that will go down on record, not just in your sig or on a slip you have in your glovebox, but on an official website for any and all to see. Do your best, post it up. Lifting is weak sauce, that's all there is to it. Should the rules be changed to discourage lifting? Perhaps.

David Neibert
10-10-2009, 08:17 AM
Dave, I'm assuming you are manually shifting your automatic?

I can make 25 passes in a day with my auto shifting on its own and as long as the weather stays the same and the track is comparable it'll run within a 1/10 all day long. If you are varying that much with the auto then you have a problem somewhere.

Yes...manually shifted AOD.

David

XR7 Dave
10-10-2009, 09:28 AM
I do agree with your statement of running the cars out full bore (All out). You might consider like the NMRA does/did and give a 1-2/10ths break out on the classes in the elimination rounds or just drop the Index dial all together at that point for that particular class. That way there is no breakout loss. But there can be no further changes to the car at that point either. At least they are grouped together with the similar mods to be eligible for that class. If you take 3 cars with the same mods there should not be over 1/2 second apart, all things, considered unless there is something mechanical going on with the car.

If you tried it this way that would allow the cars that pick up in the day to run to the cars potential and for bragging rights, and the trophy (less lifting).
To do this the mods would have to be strictly adhered too. We all are aware that cars can and do sometimes pick up in different weather conditions. It would allow for that and maybe for some more records to actually be broken/set without fear of losing a shot at the trophy. At the end of the day the top dog standing in the class would get the trophy.

Again, its not my affair here but just something to give some thought to!

As far using the reaction times for the bye runs, nearly all the tracks I've ever run on use that exact system to set up bye runs. If its your event and track rental I'm assuming they can set it up anyway you like, in advance.


Using reaction times as ladder criteria works fine for bracket racing, but for heads up racing it defeats the purpose of trying to get the fastest cars into the finals. The best way is probably to use "total package" so a good driver with a slower car has a chance to advance further, but there is no point in advancing a slow car with a perfect reaction time. Anyway, they just caught us be surprise because I assumed the cars would be paired by the software and not by someone just reading the list.

I am not hating on people who lifted, but it is disappointing. It seems people are so focused on the possibility of winning something that they have lost sight of why we are doing this. Another option is to remove the racing altogether and just have an "open track" day. It would be cheaper....:rolleyes:

We tried having classes with rules, but no matter how we wrote them, there were a lot of people who did not understand them and even more who refused (in one way or another) to conform to them. I can't say I blame anyone for not wanting to conform to rules for a race they attend 1 time a year (if that) which is one reason why we dropped any mod's specific rules. The other reason is that it is very difficult to police any rules like that. I simply don't have time nor the authority to enforce them. As you can see, the "no lift" or "no sandbagging" rule which is very simple and which we verbally reinforced at the event, was disregarded then and is being argued now. People didn't understand what I meant by the rule and others disagree about how fair it is, etc. The whole thing makes me want to drop the thing back to 2 classes - BRACKET ET and ALL OUT. That is how most clubs do it and it sure would sure simplify my job!

I look at all the ways there is to lose, break your car, screw up at the light, spin the tires, miss a shift, hit the rev limiter, or just plain have your car not go fast enough, and when it all comes down to it, considering that I would have a 90% chance of losing for one of the above mentioned reasons, losing because I broke out would be a like a victory to me. :D I guess because I drive a 5spd, to me it is never worth it to risk wasting an FTD just to win against a slower car. To me that's just backwards thinking.

I put a ton of effort into trying to make the class structure work out and spend a lot of money on trophies so I guess I take it a little personal when people work the angle to their best advantage. We set up so many classes in an effort to have enough breaks for everyone to have a chance to fit in and all we ask is that you find a place where you fit. If you don't fit, there is always bracket racing, but those of you who are having difficulty hitting an index wouldn't stand a chance in brackets, for the most part.

Some of you have made valid points and we will look at some possible rules updates for future events. Personally I don't really care what the rules are, I just want to see everyone run all out and I want to give as many opportunities as possible for as many people as possible, to win something.

David Neibert
10-10-2009, 09:42 AM
I think the rules we implemented this year are fine and are about as fair as you can make them for heads up racing when considering the cars and drivers that attend this event.

David

neverfastenough
10-10-2009, 11:12 AM
Is it just me or does sand bagging get worse every year? I never even heard one case at the 07 shootout, 2-3 cases at the 08, but this year it seemed common. I watched one of Ryan's final passes and I heard whoever ran him lift all the way back at the starting line. I think they both broke out anyway but still. In 08 I beat Ryan becuase he went all out and I wasnt as fast, he never lifted and broke out. It doesnt matter to me one bit, about numbers posted online or running personal bests yadda yadda, but why call it "Racing" if your not going all out. Its cooler to hear "wow that car went faster than ever, he musta drove the piss out of it", rather than " why was that car going slower than normal"

1MTNCAT
10-10-2009, 01:32 PM
The reaction time thing should only apply to the bye runs, not the ladder. Not sure how they did it there this year. I agree with you 100% on that. If there are an odd number of cars then the cars remaining, the best RT would get the bye on that pass. That gives even the slower cars the potential to still be in it at the end if they are running well enough.

As far as the ladder, Generally if you have say 12 cars, they can do it a couple different ways that I've been involved in. 1 runs 7, 2 runs 8, etc. I've also seen 1 run 12, 2 run 11 and so on. There are several other ways to do it too, I'm sure. In the case of the odd number of cars in the ladder the best RT car would get the bye in that case. Then the rest would be laddered.

I'm with both of you on this too. I think the classes are great the way they are. I'm just saying in the elimination rounds either lift the E.T 1-2/10ths, or lift them altogether so no one runs out but instead runs what the car is capable in that class. If you go red or can't make the pass or get beat then of course you are out. But those that are there can go "All Out" and not have to worry about breaking out. Maybe you could look at a trophy for best ET end of the day in a given class and winner of each class. It is quite possible each would be different cars/individuals.

Again, I have nothing in it but just some suggestions on what I see from my end of it. I want to see all out - balls to the wall, E.T's in each class. My impression is that you all wish to see the same. :)

Wzenheimer
10-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Maybe next year just don't tell people what the indexes are until after qualifying. Have the SC-shootout peeps place the cars in the class appropriate.

chris

pro street rich
10-10-2009, 07:48 PM
Have a floating min time just like on pinks.. We are all telling how fast we went last week at this track or that. Just keep those #'s and back off .2 on the best time they have put down. This will make everyone run all out, not like some people did this year... running 1/2 second off all day till the finals..
Something else, put someone down at the end of the track, if they hear you lift,YOU ARE GONE with no exceptions.....
These are just two ways to stop some of the lifting..... The other thing is when someone keeps running 12.0's everywhere and then comes to the shoot out and can only run a 12.9 or 13.0 it is time to take a good hard look at them..Either one of these ideas will help to catch these people and get this back to a fair race event......Rich

90blkbrd
10-10-2009, 09:01 PM
I wanted to get some vanity plates, but the only thing I could think of was BEER ME and that probably wouldn't go over to well with the law either.

David

That brought back memories. I had a high school classmate with that plate.

driller
10-11-2009, 10:13 PM
I failed to make it this year due to circumstances beyond my control, so I don't have any skin in the game but I do have an opinion.

The indexes were basically 6 tenths wide. A reasonable number for an event this size. But if you run heads up you can only reasonably expect a couple tenths spread at the tree for most, so that leaves 4 tenths spread which equates to 4 car lengths or more. Therein lies the problem. Once the fast car sees the opponent in the mirror and the stripe just ahead, the tendancy to lift comes out. Especially so if the car is close to the bottom of the index and a DQ is threatened for breaking out.

IF a breakout allowance were made, the next question is how much? 1 tenth? 2 tenths? More? Doing the math will tell you 2 tenths since any more than that coupled with another 1-2 tenths allowance at the tree should put the competitor in a lower index anyways. If enough cars could participate to shorten the spread of the index classes to 5 tenths, the 2 tenths breakout allowance will then surely eliminate most of the sandbagging without further modifications to the rules.

So either A: You have a 2 tenths breakout allowance with the current heads up index or B: You drop the DQ for the breakout alltogether.

For either approach to work to the benefit of most, the cars need to run all out in the time trials to verify their index. You would need to require 2 runs to qualify for the index. You could wish your car faster all you want, but if the numbers aren't there, you fall to the lower index and suffer the consequences of a possible DQ if you then break out in eliminations. The 2 tenths breakout allowance will likley not save your day in that event but it would promote more of an all out run in the index.

To really level the playing field in heads up index racing, I think you need to run a pro tree in my humble opinion.

pro street rich
10-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Everyone must make three runs. You are then paired off the best run you have made. If you go faster then your time runs you are D.Q. Maybe a one tenth break out would be ok but thats all. I broke early so I was able to watch and listen to the runs. There were a few people that were sand bagging BIG TIME. You guys know who you are, so now lets see if we can come up with something that will put those people on the sidelines or make them run all out every time.. Oh and to keep it even better, only one break out allowed per car....Rich

Kurt K
10-11-2009, 11:50 PM
I ran all out on every pass, including bye runs. That said, due to inconsistancies of my launch, my times varied from from 11.764 to 11.993. My qualifying run was a 11.908.

My point is that most us aren't regular racers and therefore haven't figured out how to be consistant. Heck, I can't even tell you exactly what rpm I left at on my 1.59 60' run or on my 1.70 60' run. I do know it was between 2000 and 3000 rpms:rolleyes:

VicRattlehead
10-12-2009, 01:25 AM
i think its fine the way it is. just need to make sure the ladders are done right. make the bye run if its an odd field the car that runs closest to the index without going under. round one, lane choice to faster car under index. rounds 2 and so on, bye and lane choice goes to best reaction time from round prior.



or




hear me out on this, group mod 1 2 and 3 together as one class.

qualifying
have 2 rounds, take quickest of 2 and subtract 0.10 (1/10, one tenth) of a second, that becomes that drivers index. (run a 12.86 your index is a 12.76)

ladder
ladder cars based on reaction time in qualifying. closest to .000 is number one. if you go red on both qualifying passes you get put below all + reaction times. ladder everyone together in a 16 car field it would be 1-9, 2-10, 3-11 and so on.

round 1 bye
goes to the driver with best reaction time. if 2 people have the same reaction time, the first driver to do so gets it.

handicap start slower car goes first

XR7 Dave
10-12-2009, 02:00 AM
Don't like running handicaps. IMO, if you run handicaps you might as well bracket race. My feeling is that if you don't have the "balls" to run heads up properly knowing the index, then bracket race.

VicRattlehead
10-12-2009, 02:08 AM
Don't like running handicaps. IMO, if you run handicaps you might as well bracket race. My feeling is that if you don't have the "balls" to run heads up properly knowing the index, then bracket race.

with the 1/10 that MAKES you run it out. you gotta figure out how to make up a tenth somehow.



and you keep calling it headsup. heads up is both cars get the green same time, and whoever gets to the other end first wins, no matter what they run. you have an index race, not headsup race here.

XR7 Dave
10-12-2009, 07:07 AM
and you keep calling it headsup. heads up is both cars get the green same time, and whoever gets to the other end first wins, no matter what they run. you have an index race, not headsup race here.

And now you get all technical on me. :rolleyes:

Yes, true index racing is not a lot different than just bracket racing. This isn't index racing. This is heads up racing that is losing out to something else. My point is that if you don't both leave at the same time then you might as well bracket race.

1MTNCAT
10-12-2009, 07:29 AM
with the 1/10 that MAKES you run it out. you gotta figure out how to make up a tenth somehow.



and you keep calling it headsup. heads up is both cars get the green same time, and whoever gets to the other end first wins, no matter what they run. you have an index race, not headsup race here.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keith, how do you figure that. FFW ran index for years in several classes with an index in each bracket. I know, I ran plenty of them. They ran heads up (Green same time) and ran on an index. They also ran on a sportsman tree. NMRA runs dial on your quickest pass and have gone from 2/10ths breakout in 99-01, to 1/10th I believe the last time I ran their MM Class. Of course the slower car gets to leave first in theirs. Basically bracket style.

This is basically a mods/index race that is heads up.

I say institute the 2/10th breakout in eliminations and be done with it. Decide how to do the bye runs and the ladder and be done with that.

I do not agree with the Pro tree for this event. There are too many here that have little experience racing as it is. Yeah I know you want to use your trans brake but most here don't have them nor need them. You don't want to make it harder on the newbies. Everyone's there to race and have a good time.