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Nettlesd
10-12-2009, 02:14 PM
These are just some ideas that the Shootout committee can discuss. Iím not complaining or anything so this isnít about that. I'm just throwing some things out there.


Is there a term period for Committee members? If not, maybe one should be implemented so that different people can be on the committee to share likes/dislikes/other concerns.<br>

Now that the Shootout has been opened up for other all Thunderbirds, maybe there needs to be a representative from the TCCoA on the committee.<br>


Yes, I do realize that a thread about the Shootout is posted on TCCoA but maybe someone from that board might bring in new ideas or have a voice for its members.<br><br>

Make the event more centrally located<br><br>

Our highest Thunderbird turnout was at the 01 National event which was held in Oklahoma. Now that all Thunderbirds are included, maybe itís time to move the event to better represent the population.<br><br>

Dialog between SCCoA members and the Shootout committee. Maybe we need an SCCoA representative on the Shootout committee that would voice likes/dislikes/other concerns. This would be outside of the SCCoA members who are on the committee.

DrFishbone
10-12-2009, 03:37 PM
Maybe the TCCoA & SCCoA (assuming the SCCoA isn't directly involved with the SC Shootouts already) should have their own shootouts!

three times the events, three times the fun, and probably at least two times the turnout! :D

SCrazy
10-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Duane:

Thanks for the feedback...I'm certain Dave will jump in here soon as well but I'll throw out my impressions for now.

I don't think there is a term limit on the committee but I do know that there generally isn't a huge outpooring of members looking to join. Most decisions are discussed openly with everyone in the general forums so most everybody should have a place to voice opinions on just about everything.

Generally the TCCoA guys are pretty laid back towards the shootout, perhaps because of the SC/XR7 branding but I think that expanding the Shootout to include as many of them who would want to participate is definately where things are headed.

We had the Shootout in OK about 4 or 5 years ago and we had nearly the exact same turnout as we did the year before in Norwalk and the year after in Dayton. In fact not only was the total turnout very similar but the majority (I'm thinking about 80%) of the people who attended were exactly the same. The effort was made to move further west but I don't think it changed anything significantly as far as attendance and was far more difficult to plan and execute due to the distance from the people who organize things.

Feedback from the membership is important, but I can attest that nothing happens in secret amongst committee members every major decision is discussed openly on the forums.

Sounds a little like I'm defending the status quo here which is not really the case, I'm certainly open minded, just pointing out things as I currently understand them.

Thanks again Duane

David Neibert
10-12-2009, 03:58 PM
These are just some ideas that the Shootout committee can discuss. Iím not complaining or anything so this isnít about that. I'm just throwing some things out there.


Is there a term period for Committee members? If not, maybe one should be implemented so that different people can be on the committee to share likes/dislikes/other concerns.<br>

Now that the Shootout has been opened up for other all Thunderbirds, maybe there needs to be a representative from the TCCoA on the committee.<br>


Yes, I do realize that a thread about the Shootout is posted on TCCoA but maybe someone from that board might bring in new ideas or have a voice for its members.<br><br>

Make the event more centrally located<br><br>

Our highest Thunderbird turnout was at the 01 National event which was held in Oklahoma. Now that all Thunderbirds are included, maybe itís time to move the event to better represent the population.<br><br>

Dialog between SCCoA members and the Shootout committee. Maybe we need an SCCoA representative on the Shootout committee that would voice likes/dislikes/other concerns. This would be outside of the SCCoA members who are on the committee.


Duane,

Our biggest challenge in planning the Shootout every year, is with finding a suitable track that we can afford to rent. Given the difficulty we faced finding a location for this year, I don't think we will be changing locations for at least another year.

Please keep in mind, that even though we have done a lot towards making this meet more enjoyable for those who wish only to show their cars, it's still a Race meet first and a car Show second. That being the case, the track avalibility often dictates the meet location.

David

Nettlesd
10-12-2009, 04:18 PM
Thanks Brian for your comments. I understand where you are coming from and only wanted to throw some things out there. I'm not saying we have to do any of this but only throwing some things out there for people to think about.



Generally the TCCoA guys are pretty laid back towards the shootout, perhaps because of the SC/XR7 branding but I think that expanding the Shootout to include as many of them who would want to participate is definately where things are headed.

We had the Shootout in OK about 4 or 5 years ago and we had nearly the exact same turnout as we did the year before in Norwalk and the year after in Dayton. In fact not only was the total turnout very similar but the majority (I'm thinking about 80%) of the people who attended were exactly the same. The effort was made to move further west but I don't think it changed anything significantly as far as attendance and was far more difficult to plan and execute due to the distance from the people who organize things.


This goes hand in hand with bullet #2. Back then, I don't think all Thunderbirds were being pursued versus now, which, could change things if a lot of the TCCoA members started to bring their cars. Just playing a different angle, that's all.



Feedback from the membership is important, but I can attest that nothing happens in secret amongst committee members every major decision is discussed openly on the forums.

I don't really think it does, either. I suppose more posts like this would help in some type of dialog between committee members and paid members on Shootout discussions. I'm not saying there is anything wrong but it could be that someone or a group of people have a good direction for the Shootout.



I don't think there is a term limit on the committee but I do know that there generally isn't a huge outpooring of members looking to join. Most decisions are discussed openly with everyone in the general forums so most everybody should have a place to voice opinions on just about everything.

How would one go about joining if someone wanted to join? Maybe there should be a term limit to keep things fresh. Not sure if that is good or bad but it probably should be an option since it's an SCCoA event.

I do think this was the best Shootout ever but you'll never now if it could be even better if this or that changed.

kenewagner
10-12-2009, 04:21 PM
Has Earlville in Eastern Iowa or maybe KC ever been checked out? That would be more centrally located than Oklahoma and still very accessable for the majority of the club. Harder for the eastern guys but better for the southern states like Texas and the western states like Colorado. Just a suggestion. As for the shootout itself I like the way it is setup right now with the show and racing


Ken

Nettlesd
10-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Duane,

Our biggest challenge in planning the Shootout every year, is with finding a suitable track that we can afford to rent. Given the difficulty we faced finding a location for this year, I don't think we will be changing locations for at least another year.

David

Oh, I totally understand that. It is also a possibility that with the larger TCCoA community, it might be possible that someone from that club could find a track that would work for us. Don't really know until you tap into that resource.

I'm not saying we need to move the event, I'm only saying we have a much larger resource to draw from and it should be looked at. There really is no reason why the Shootout can't rival the 01 National event in attendance.

Yes, racing is the name of the game and I would still go even if there wasn't a car show. Heck, I've been to every single one.

fturner
10-12-2009, 04:43 PM
I was un-aware that this was an SCCOA santioned event? As far as I can see it has nothing to do with the SCCOA and its just a group of guys running a fun, popular event.... just that the majority of participants come from the SCCOA.

As far as getting TCCOA folks to participate more would require mending some sore "wounds" if you will. Face it, there's alot of folks over there that would rather spit on anyone from here than attend an event with alot of SCCOA guys, and I'm sure there's some over here that feel the same about TCCOA. There's been a few "clashes" in the past and as we all know, folks would rather remember the bad crap than remember the good stuff :rolleyes:.

Fraser

90blkbrd
10-12-2009, 04:55 PM
David,

What kind of price point do we need to be at to rent a track? Would the committee mind if we (members) contacted the local tracks to see if they can meet the requirements. (just requesting estimates for a possible event)

As you well know Tri State Raceway is a great track and I think this track might be within the budget. I would need to do some research on dyno's in the area (biggest problem for this location) and hotels that could hold our event. But I believe this track is a viable location.

Thanks
Michael

P.S. I'd like David Dalke to make up a few of his famous maps he did for for the 2007 shootout showing location of the reoccurring members that attend a shootout and each track that might be a viable location. Then show other members that might attend because of the new possible location.

VicRattlehead
10-12-2009, 05:25 PM
I've said it before and I think it still holds true now, the guys on tccoa still see the shootout as a "sc" only thing. I keep trying to get that thought out of their heads but that's the way they are.

One thing I wish could happen is to have a shootout specific forum both here and tccoa

who all is on the committee??

ricardoa1
10-12-2009, 05:35 PM
Why doesnt the LX guys have a shootout dependent to them. Held at the same time as the SC shootout. Or change the SC shootout name much easier. Ever year we have this discussion and it ends up beind the same.

The LX guys can have their own set of trophies and prizes. Maybe that will get them to come. Who ever organizes that can team up with Dalke on the track stuff.

Nettlesd
10-12-2009, 05:44 PM
I've said it before and I think it still holds true now, the guys on tccoa still see the shootout as a "sc" only thing. I keep trying to get that thought out of their heads but that's the way they are.

Look at bullet #2. Knowing that someone from their community sits on the committee may be the break through they need. It can't hurt.

1989superhot
10-12-2009, 06:50 PM
i HAVE THE DYNO ISSUE FIXED IF NEED BE. I HAVE a freind who own's a dyno pack dyno it's portable and the car's don't have to be straped down and it's on the ground not up in the air like most portable dyno's.
you take the rear wheels of the car and install adapter shaft's to the car that lock into the dyno.He would be willing to travel if needed just a thought.

XR7 Dave
10-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Duane, if you'd like to be more involved with the Shootout, we are looking for new committee members who can contribute materially to the event. For example we are looking for someone to take over the promotion and administration of the car show portion of the event. If you are interested, you clearly have the credentials......

David

XxSlowpokexX
10-12-2009, 09:35 PM
Well if you make the shootout more like the mn12 naionals of the past where all mn12/fn10 cars can compete then youde get more entries. Then your dealing with all engine combos, 3.8 NA 3.8 SC 4.6 SOHC 4.6 DOHC 5.0

But I guess it all depends what you want to keep this as and how large do you want it to get.

I think the return of the mn12 nationals would be a great idea

XR7 Dave
10-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Well if you make the shootout more like the mn12 naionals of the past where all mn12/fn10 cars can compete then youde get more entries. Then your dealing with all engine combos, 3.8 NA 3.8 SC 4.6 SOHC 4.6 DOHC 5.0

But I guess it all depends what you want to keep this as and how large do you want it to get.

I think the return of the mn12 nationals would be a great idea

I don't want to make the SC Shootout more like the MN12 Nationals. The MN12 Nationals failed after about 3 seasons.

Currently (and as always) all MN12/FN10 cars are welcome at the Shootout, where HAVE you been? :confused:

XxSlowpokexX
10-12-2009, 10:18 PM
Why call it the SC shootout if all are welcome? :D Its kind alike..Ya yall can come..But we arent really catering to you..But you can come...If you reallly want to.

The mn12 nationals would still be going on if the persons responsable for it wanted to keep it going on. Thats the bottom line. Same would go for this shootout. Face it you guys started this event because the other was gone. Perfect oportunity

It just seems what people are voicing is more then just including other then SC vehicles but making the other vehicles just as much a part of the event. Thus making it less then an "SC Shootout" and more like an MN12 Nationals where all is welcome and catered to equally.

I'm not saying one is better then the other. Two different concepts. Ones inclusive ones exclusive. Regardless of saying all is welcome.

Either way the chances of me going to either is equal and dependant on personal reasons and distance.:eek: SO no matter what you do it isnt going to get my butt there any faster.

David Neibert
10-13-2009, 12:11 AM
Why call it the SC shootout if all are welcome? :D Its kind alike..Ya yall can come..But we arent really catering to you..But you can come...If you reallly want to.

The mn12 nationals would still be going on if the persons responsable for it wanted to keep it going on. Thats the bottom line. Same would go for this shootout. Face it you guys started this event because the other was gone. Perfect oportunity

It just seems what people are voicing is more then just including other then SC vehicles but making the other vehicles just as much a part of the event. Thus making it less then an "SC Shootout" and more like an MN12 Nationals where all is welcome and catered to equally.

I'm not saying one is better then the other. Two different concepts. Ones inclusive ones exclusive. Regardless of saying all is welcome.

Either way the chances of me going to either is equal and dependant on personal reasons and distance.:eek: SO no matter what you do it isnt going to get my butt there any faster.

Damon,

Sorry, but you have to attend at least one time before you can expect to have your suggestions for making changes taken seriously.

David

94sc500
10-13-2009, 12:51 AM
I like the current location of the shootout. Tri state would be even better (closer) for me. Like someone said earlier good luck finding a decent hotel there. Try the hamilton inn :eek: im pretty sure you can rent it by the hour!

VicRattlehead
10-13-2009, 02:33 AM
i like the current location, even though there aint an easy way for me to get there. ton of fricken back roads.


i dont care where it is, just want to get more people out there is all, it was fun this year, i miss hanging out with the tbird guys. the years at wfc were fun but most everyone that was there went to the car show, the times i go to nmra races is fun but there are no mn12 guys there to hang with. the shootout is cool it gets me the best of both worlds. i think next year if its at muncie and if the track has their same schedule im going to enter into their show on fri or sat, id like to get some others to join me. i cant wait til next year.

XR7 Dave
10-13-2009, 08:09 AM
Why call it the SC shootout if all are welcome? :D Its kind alike..Ya yall can come..But we arent really catering to you..But you can come...If you reallly want to.

The mn12 nationals would still be going on if the persons responsable for it wanted to keep it going on. Thats the bottom line. Same would go for this shootout. Face it you guys started this event because the other was gone. Perfect oportunity

It just seems what people are voicing is more then just including other then SC vehicles but making the other vehicles just as much a part of the event. Thus making it less then an "SC Shootout" and more like an MN12 Nationals where all is welcome and catered to equally.

I'm not saying one is better then the other. Two different concepts. Ones inclusive ones exclusive. Regardless of saying all is welcome.

Either way the chances of me going to either is equal and dependant on personal reasons and distance.:eek: SO no matter what you do it isnt going to get my butt there any faster.

Damon,

The MN12's were still held in 2003, the same year we started planning the first SC Shootout. The SC Shootout was in motion before MN12 Nat's officially ended. To say that the SC Shootout simply picked up slack from the MN12 Nats shows just how little you know about the SC Shootout. It is true that many people who would have attended the Nats came to the Shootout instead, but I think you are missing out on the "WHY" in this case.

I attended the MN12 Nats in 2001 and 2002. I, along with a good number of other people, found that the Nats were disappointing because there was no real organized racing venue. Since racing takes a significant investment on both the part of the event and the participants, to us it made sense that the event focus on and center around racing. History tells the story as to which approach is more effective and is more attractive to participants.

Could the SC Shootout be blended in with an MN12 Nats program? Sure it could. Could Ford, Chrysler, GM, and Toyota all be blended into one super car company? Sure they could. Don't think anyone would really like that too much though. We have our identity and we are proud of it. If anyone wants to start another event and call it something else, by all means go ahead.

The SC Shootout is what it is because that's what we like. MN12 Nationals no more caters to FN10's than the SC Shootout. We've had the discussion about changing names several times, and it's always the same people wanting to change the name. Sorry, but there are no plans to change the name. As you said, there is nothing we can do to convince you to attend and I feel the same applies to most people. They will attend if they feel so inclined and bending over backwards in our attempts to accommodate them isn't going to change anything. We have no intentions of watering down our event.

If the name were so important, then I think that our "car show only" registration numbers would show that non-racers don't attend the SC Shootout. However, history has shown that the name has not prevented the people who want to car show only from driving significant distances to attend.

Thanks for the input guys, but we've already pretty much covered these topics. If anyone wants to help out, on the other hand, we are all ears. :D

DrFishbone
10-13-2009, 09:37 AM
...Sorry, but there are no plans to change the name.

It has a nice ring to it anyway. :D

Like I was saying...I think all the clubs should have their own "shootout" and welcome participants from all clubs, like this past shootout was conducted. It would give us more big events to attend. :D

Nettlesd
10-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Duane, if you'd like to be more involved with the Shootout, we are looking for new committee members who can contribute materially to the event. For example we are looking for someone to take over the promotion and administration of the car show portion of the event. If you are interested, you clearly have the credentials......

David

It's not that I want to be more involved but give more people that opportunity. Hence, the term limit on committee members so that different perspectives can be viewed. A voice for the V8 community....etc.

As far as the car show, yes, I'll help out. I really didn't see anything wrong with the way it was handled this year but maybe I missed something. I do feel the location would have been better at the back of the hotel or somewhere on Walmart's parking lot, but other than that, I really didn't see any problems. With that said, you can count me in on what you need done.

Kurt Sunday
10-13-2009, 01:21 PM
If this helps - for the 01 MN12 meet I stole the idea of a central meeting place from looking at other car club sites. What are others currently doing for their "shootouts"?

VicRattlehead
10-13-2009, 03:01 PM
It has a nice ring to it anyway. :D

Like I was saying...I think all the clubs should have their own "shootout" and welcome participants from all clubs, like this past shootout was conducted. It would give us more big events to attend. :D

In theory that's a great idea. In reality you'll have events with 25 cars.

As far as the name in years past it worked with the format, now, not so much but it's got some history behind it so there really is no need to change it. What needs to change is the participants view of it. It's no longer just a sc thing. I tried to get the people on tccoa onboard, I posted on one of the largest racing boards there is.

It would also help if it was announced before the racing was concluded that there was a cash prize for a v8 car.

Any thoughts on moving it up to mid sept so it's not as cold?

Dirtyd0g
10-13-2009, 04:31 PM
I have to agree on moving the time. A few weeks could make a difference. We want cool weather but the cold weather is too much. If we put it off another month we'll have to have an ambulance on hand to get some of these guys tongues off the flagpole.
As far as the rest of it goes, somebody will always be complaing that they want to do it differently. The way I see it is that it is working so why mess with it. I for one am happy with the way it is handled.
Another successful event. I'd love to see everyone show up ready to compete in one way or another, but most people just make excuses.
I am sad that none of my cars made it this year. The entire bracket class that I am used to seeing was not present. I have the winter to make that happen and get some practice in for next year.
Alan

1MTNCAT
10-13-2009, 07:40 PM
In theory that's a great idea. In reality you'll have events with 25 cars.

As far as the name in years past it worked with the format, now, not so much but it's got some history behind it so there really is no need to change it. What needs to change is the participants view of it. It's no longer just a sc thing. I tried to get the people on tccoa onboard, I posted on one of the largest racing boards there is.

It would also help if it was announced before the racing was concluded that there was a cash prize for a v8 car.

Any thoughts on moving it up to mid sept so it's not as cold?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keith,

Whats the problem having 25-30 cars at an event? We have that every year at the JBMN's. Sometimes more. That includes SC's, V8's, Lincolns and even the fox Cats/Birds. But where is the massive participation? How many on this forum or on any of the others show? How many times have YOU ever traveled here to run or any of the OTHERS from out in the midwest? I can tell you, none. Our group (MAMN12) gets together and races usually several times a year. Quite a few of us get together in the fall for Private track rentals with the NVMC Mustang boys, SSOTN Mustang boys at Cecil, the MIR All Ford Event as well as the Mason Dixon All Ford event. Our event at the JBMN is bracket racing, in a class one day, not a private track rental, though I am looking into possibly changing that next season.

Whats with the TCCOA? Are there no one that lives in the area where these events take place? Of course there are. Do they participate no. Are they invited yes. So whats the problem? Answer - they could care less. They just want to complain cause there is never anything around them to do. IF they wanted to the majority of them could be there. The same goes for the SC guys that are within a couple hours of our event. Just the way it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think Dave and the rest have done an excellent job promoting the event and inviting the V-8 cars. Yeah, its the SC shootout, so what. I never saw anything that says V8's aren't allowed, nor stock non SC V6's. The bottom line is its all in what one chooses to do and participate in. The problem is most want to bitch about something and choose to do nothing. If the V8 cars are inclusive in that, so be it.

As far as the payout for the NA V8 cars, that was not Dave's fault. That was mine. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do that until the last minute. I did it last year too. Blown38 actually met with me on his travel out and picked up the prize money to be presented as well as the "Golden Piston Award". Dave didn't even know it was coming until it was there. I hope that clears that up.

Personally, far as the weather, I'd rather see it 2 weeks later LOL. Likely everyone would get a chance to run in very cool conditions. But thats me. I know and like cool air. So does the car.

You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't mean it will drink. The same goes for these events for the MN12's/FN10's. Whichever organization is holding it.

:)

VicRattlehead
10-13-2009, 08:40 PM
No problem on the prize thing

The problem with low car count is if you want the event to grow you can't.

As for tccoa I agree with you on eveything you said.

2 weeks later are u nuts?? It's 45* there.

neverfastenough
10-13-2009, 08:48 PM
Date, kinda depends on luck, to be sure it would have to be in early sept. Last 2 years were last week of sept or early oct, I cant remember. I do remember it being hot tho. 07 shootout was cookin.

XR7 Dave
10-13-2009, 09:12 PM
There are many challenges that are presented in securing a race track for the type of event we run. To name a few:


Price. We can't really afford $5000 and up for a race track.
Quality. We all like to have good pit facilities, a good launch pad, an absence of craters in the raceway, etc. A low price facility isn't a bargain if the place is a dump.
Location. SC ownership is not evenly distributed across the country. Putting the venue in the middle of the country simply means that it will be equally inconvenient for everyone.
Date. The good tracks are pretty much all booked up on weekends during the summer season. It is a matter of convenience for us that we like cool weather and the normal racing season ends in September most places.
Exclusivity. There aren't many club events that gain exclusive use of a well prepared track on a weekend day. We could share a track but we'd be limited to 2-3 classes instead of the 8 we now enjoy. We'd also lose the ability to dictate exactly how our classes are handled and we'd be subject to oil-downs, wrecks, and other typical delays that are part of normal drag racing events.

What it boils down to is that other than some tweaks to our system (we'll be taking suggestions posted above seriously) we've already covered all the major hurdles and come up with a best solution for the type of meet we want to present. While lots of ideas are appreciated and helpful, the Shootout has been and remains a focused event with a mission and purpose (read the main page at www.sc-shootout.com for a refresher on that) and to that end we have remained true in purpose and form. Any changes we do make will continue to reflect that goal and mission.

Nettlesd
10-13-2009, 09:45 PM
Location. SC ownership is not evenly distributed across the country. Putting the venue in the middle of the country simply means that it will be equally inconvenient for everyone.



I'm not trying to argue but I don't believe that statement holds true anymore. Now that all Thunderbirds/V8 cars are included, that's why I made this reference I made below.


Make the event more centrally located<br><br>

Our highest Thunderbird turnout was at the 01 National event which was held in Oklahoma. Now that all Thunderbirds are included, maybe it’s time to move the event to better represent the population.



The point I'm trying to make is, the greater population may be in the south if the TCCoA community started to get serious and really wanted to come. I just picked the south but it could be any where. That's also why I mentioned having a TCCoA representative on the Shootout committee.

TSC89
10-13-2009, 09:52 PM
The view from a non-racer. I am always amazed at the Shootout. I have been to the last 3. I literally plan a vacation around it. The travel is the only drawback for me but I adjust to make it and still be able to enjoy my time at the Shootout. Seeing people that I met and dealt with here on the SCCOA and other sites is another plus. Seeing the work that others have put into their cars. I think the group that puts this all together does a great job. There are always little things that might not work as planned but it still comes together due to their hard work and time. Thanks for taking the time to consider the views of those post up here.

I come to see some great people, some great cars in the show and the in the go and have fun.
I'll be back next year.

XR7Kurt
10-13-2009, 09:52 PM
Exclusivity. There aren't many club events that gain exclusive use of a well prepared track on a weekend day. We could share a track but we'd be limited to 2-3 classes instead of the 8 we now enjoy. We'd also lose the ability to dictate exactly how our classes are handled and we'd be subject to oil-downs, wrecks, and other typical delays that are part of normal drag racing events.
To me this is the most attractive aspect of the Shootout. Priceless.


While lots of ideas are appreciated and helpful, the Shootout has been and remains a focused event with a mission and purpose (read the main page at www.sc-shootout.com for a refresher on that) and to that end we have remained true in purpose and form. Any changes we do make will continue to reflect that goal and mission.
The type of heads up racing by class described here was new to me, and although I ran in the bracket class which was familiar to me, I surprisingly enjoyed that type of racing.

Stay the course Dave, it was a great event and I only make one day.

coolhand
10-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Well, here we go again. Same argument, different day. Being an owner of both an LX and an S/C. I can tell you, that for many years I owned only an LX and was accepted by the SCCoO as a member. I took a lot of crap about it, but what the hell, its all in good fun. I attended my first two SHOOTOUTS with the LX, and felt nothing but welcome. I had that car tuned by Dave D, ran slow as hell, but still managed to have a great time at each event. In 2008, I was fortunate enuff to purchase a S/C and attend with that car. Pretty bone stock, a driver who is useless on the track, an issue with the tranny of my own doing, but still managed to have a great time.
I have been at Carlisle a few times, had a great time there as well, and hope to attend again in 2010. Now that show has a definite division between the cars. The LX's and the S/C didnt seem to mingle a great deal, but thats just the nature of the beast.
I have nothing but praise for the committee in the job they have done organizing the SHOOTOUT. I missed this year due to other commitments, and it felt like hell doing so. Last year, I heard from many LX people that they would be attending, and the same people showed up. Thats OK as well. Having a core of people there means there will always be old BS stories to go over again.
Just let the event take its course. Money is tight everywhere, people cant always afford to travel. The issue of breakage is always important in non trailered cars. But lets not lose sight of what its all about. Its a "bring it on, I will whoop your ~~~" kind of event. The car show is a great meet and greet. but secondary to the racing.
Location means little to me. Its a long drive no matter where they put it. Just as long as I have a chance to go!!!!!!

Just my 2 cents.

Matt

pro street rich
10-14-2009, 09:24 AM
A few years ago we did a deal around here, it was the midwest bash for those that remembered. I hooked up what I thought was a great deal at the track & the dyno. I can do this again. Heck we even got the local hotel and cops to get involved so we would not have issues. That whole event went off without a hitch. We even went back to my place for a cook out and when the rain came that night I opened up one of my buildings and the party kept on till the last person left.
This is a trail idea and if someone wants to have me go forward let me know. Prices were good,location was I think good and we still got like 20 people to show up even thou someone had to go get married that same weekend and pull all the St. Louis guys out of the mix...
Let me know and lets see what we can do to make this happen.....Rich

Kurt K
10-14-2009, 09:44 AM
...and we still got like 20 people to show up even thou someone had to go get married that same weekend and pull all the St. Louis guys out of the mix...I wonder who that was?:rolleyes:

Wzenheimer
10-14-2009, 11:09 AM
In case you all have forgotten here is a list of Threads from 2003 on how the Shootout actually got started.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23542

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23841

The first one is fairly long and is really where the meat of the topic began. I will completely agree that the current Shootout Committee has done a fantastic job of truely making the event what it has become. I also think that with anything the event needs to mature and grow. Just remember the EVENT was started as a RACING/DYNO event. It was started as such because several of us wanted to make it an ALL OUT racing event to PROVE that your car is the fastest on the same given day at the same track than someone elses. It was and is the event to claim I'm the FASTEST so sit down and shutup.

I'd be more than happy to be a part of committee again now that my personal life isn't in the way. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Chris

Nettlesd
10-14-2009, 02:03 PM
Iím not saying the committee is doing a bad job at all. What Iím trying to point out is that the committee needs to look forward and consider that the population just changed since any FN10/MN12 is able to race in any class now. Does that mean the event has to move? No. Does it mean that the event might be better served at a different location since the population just changed? Maybe. Donít know until the committee polls the population. Yes, that means the whole SC/LX/V6/V8 population. Should they? Probably since the decision was made to include any FN10/MN12 in any class.

Donít get me wrong. I love the event, the racing, the car show, the trophies, Brian cooking steak and shrimp (why cater anymore when Brianís around) but I think the committee has a lot more decisions that need to be made now than in the past.

So, when can I be a Shootout committee member. :)

90blkbrd
10-14-2009, 02:05 PM
In case you all have forgotten here is a list of Threads from 2003 on how the Shootout actually got started.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23542

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23841

The first one is fairly long and is really where the meat of the topic began. I will completely agree that the current Shootout Committee has done a fantastic job of truely making the event what it has become. I also think that with anything the event needs to mature and grow. Just remember the EVENT was started as a RACING/DYNO event. It was started as such because several of us wanted to make it an ALL OUT racing event to PROVE that your car is the fastest on the same given day at the same track than someone elses. It was and is the event to claim I'm the FASTEST so sit down and shutup.

I'd be more than happy to be a part of committee again now that my personal life isn't in the way. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Chris

Interesting....same thing 6 years later....except Jimmy D. isn't posting.

pro street rich
10-14-2009, 02:33 PM
Interesting....same thing 6 years later....except Jimmy D. isn't posting.

I say to all, instead of being part of the problem, why not try to be part of the solution. GET INVOLED with the committee and lend a hand... That goes for all of us.. Dave D. and the boys are doing a great job, now lets all lend a hand to help, not cry....Rich

David Neibert
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Iím not saying the committee is doing a bad job at all. What Iím trying to point out is that the committee needs to look forward and consider that the population just changed since any FN10/MN12 is able to race in any class now. Does that mean the event has to move? No. Does it mean that the event might be better served at a different location since the population just changed? Maybe. Donít know until the committee polls the population. Yes, that means the whole SC/LX/V6/V8 population. Should they? Probably since the decision was made to include any FN10/MN12 in any class.

Donít get me wrong. I love the event, the racing, the car show, the trophies, Brian cooking steak and shrimp (why cater anymore when Brianís around) but I think the committee has a lot more decisions that need to be made now than in the past.

So, when can I be a Shootout committee member. :)

Duane,

The Shootout has been open to all MN12 and FN10s for years (especially the show portion). This year we decided to experiment with a new set of racing rules that would allow the v8 cars to race against the supercharged v6s in all classes instead of only a few classes. It also allowed the v6 guys to have their car modded however they wanted and still be able to race against cars of similar ET.

Proir to making these rules changes there were threads posted on TCCoA soliciting input from the people about the proposed rules changes. There were also several post made after the rules were made official and the change of location happened. Positive feedback from the TCCoA guys was pretty good, but I think we actually ended up with less V8 cars participating this year than we had last year.

I'm sure the bad economy has a lot to do with why we didn't see more of the v8 guys this year. But even when the economy recovers, I don't expect to see a huge surge in attendance just because of the rules changes we made. There is a core group that pretty much always attends, and then there are people who almost always attend, then there are a bunch who are hit or miss.

IMO, many of the TCCoA guys are just not into the meets like they once were. I think the age of these cars and the owner demographic also plays a big part (both for SCCoA and TCCoA). Many of the guys with the nicest cars have sold their cars and moved on to other newer models, or gotten away from modding their cars to start a family or buy a house or just got bored. Look what happened to the T-bird attendance at WFC or Carlisle over the past 6 years.

I think there are still enough people interested in these cars that we can continue to have a well attended Shootout for several years to come, but I don't really see this meet ever becoming even twice as large, no matter where or when it's held.

David

CMac89
10-14-2009, 04:26 PM
Does anyone know how many cars showed up and how many actually raced?

Roadhawg
10-14-2009, 04:27 PM
I had a great time, met a lot of great people and I did not even bring a Tbird. ;)

90blkbrd
10-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Price. We can't really afford $5000 and up for a race track.


A weekend event held at Tri-State Raceway is $3000. Is this low enough to be considered for a shootout?

I'm sure a suitable hotel could be found in Manchester (11 miles) or Dubuque (36 miles). For reference Portland was 21 miles from Muncie Raceway.

nickleman60
10-15-2009, 11:50 AM
This years location was a longgggggggg ride from my house and if it were to be any further I would not attend, just my 2 cents......;)

I had a lot of fun this year and plan on attending future events.

Mercutio
10-15-2009, 01:06 PM
Moving the location--no matter where--will inherently prevent some people who attended this year from showing up while also encouraging other people who did not attend this year to show up. It took me a bit over 8 hours to get to this year's shootout from Chattanooga, TN, so naturally I'm not keen on moving the event any farther West. Now what I prefer isn't entirely important but consider this: the Club Clash in Iowa and Joel Bender Nats in MD provide alternatives for people who, thanks to geography, can't make it to the Shootout. In addition I feel that there exists a regular crew of Shootout attendants who feel, with justification, that this is "their" event. I've attended the last four Shootouts and I know lots of other people have been to more than that. I really think that this event belongs to the people who attend it (including the organizers, certainly) and that moving it out from under them wouldn't be right.

90blkbrd
10-15-2009, 02:10 PM
I really think that this event belongs to the people who attend it (including the organizers, certainly) and that moving it out from under them wouldn't be right.

I'm fine with traveling 8-10 hours to go to a shootout. But if money is becoming an issue maybe we should consider other locations.

That is why I suggested that XR7 Dave make another one of his nifty maps. It would show the location of each of the attendee's over the past few shootouts. Like this one:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15516&d=1127321225

CMac89
10-15-2009, 05:13 PM
Unless most people moved, it isn't going to change much. The location was already decided based on people's locations; Dayton! There may have been other factors that I'm not aware of.

There wasn't a shortage of car this year, it was still a good turn out. It seems that most of the attendees are from the Midwest area.

Dirtyd0g
10-15-2009, 05:44 PM
:( I didn't make it on the map

XR7 Dave
10-15-2009, 06:25 PM
A weekend event held at Tri-State Raceway is $3000. Is this low enough to be considered for a shootout?

I'm sure a suitable hotel could be found in Manchester (11 miles) or Dubuque (36 miles). For reference Portland was 21 miles from Muncie Raceway.

Tri State is too far out in the middle of nowhere to be considered for a Shootout.

9250bird
10-15-2009, 07:27 PM
Well I cannot believe I read that whole thing but anyway.

Dave keep it up, dont change a thing.

What needs to be kept in mind is the fact that "The SC Shootout" is talked about on here, it is not an SCCoA sanctioned event. It is just a central location for it to be discussed. I challenge anyone to host their own event and get great results. I am not saying it cant be done, but Dave spends so much time and money to make sure the event only gets better. Now that Dave has so many events under his belt, he only continues to make the event better. It seems each year an obstacle is overcome each year, location, dinner, dinner location, track.......bla bla bla. If you dont like the location of the event, have one close to your home.

Be part of the solution, and back up your suggestions. I hope if your going to offer the suggestions and help you better come through.

See you guys in 2010.

Chris

driller
10-15-2009, 09:41 PM
:( I didn't make it on the map

Me neither. :p

I think the event is great as is - all around. I hated missing this year but I plan to be there next year. :)

Mercutio
10-15-2009, 09:57 PM
Why don't some of the people who want to see the event moved start their own event? I'm not saying that to be a jackass--I think it would be great if, in addition to the Shootout, there was a "Spring Shootout South" or "Texas SC Nats" or whatever. I'd also love to see an SC gathering for a road course or auto-X event but I'm not going to try to turn the current Shootout into that event.

Nettlesd
10-15-2009, 09:59 PM
I can see that people donít quite understand my initial post. My post was meant to inspire, discuss and generally think about the bullets I had posted for the committee. It doesnít mean the committee needs to do anything different than they have been doing but it does open up the possibility to say; ďYou know what, Iíve never thought of that beforeĒ, ďThat does raise a question if Ö.Ē, ďThatís a totally different angleĒ, ďNice idea but not practicalĒ..blah..blah..blah.

If no one took different angles or views on things, where would we be?

pro street rich
10-15-2009, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=90blkbrd;845337]A weekend event held at Tri-State Raceway is $3000.

When I put together the "Midwest Bash" track rental was FREE. YES, FREE.... Everyone just paid the normal price for racing and that was it. We got to use the short lane and whenever we had 4 or more cars in the line we got to go. There was no real waiting and everyone had a great time... Something to think about and yes it is a NHRA track with lots of room.....Rich

VicRattlehead
10-16-2009, 01:35 AM
[QUOTE=90blkbrd;845337]A weekend event held at Tri-State Raceway is $3000.

When I put together the "Midwest Bash" track rental was FREE. YES, FREE.... Everyone just paid the normal price for racing and that was it. We got to use the short lane and whenever we had 4 or more cars in the line we got to go. There was no real waiting and everyone had a great time... Something to think about and yes it is a NHRA track with lots of room.....Rich

as long as Marcell is not in the picture, ill consider going there, but highly unlikely after what he pulled this past weekend with the true street event

90blkbrd
10-16-2009, 08:26 AM
When I put together the "Midwest Bash" track rental was FREE. YES, FREE.... Everyone just paid the normal price for racing and that was it. We got to use the short lane and whenever we had 4 or more cars in the line we got to go. There was no real waiting and everyone had a great time... Something to think about and yes it is a NHRA track with lots of room.....Rich

Rich, the club clash is held twice a year on the same day as Test and Tune the only cost is the entrance fee. When not racing as part of the club clash you can make as many passes as you like and you could easily get in as many passes as you would want to do. I've never seen test and tune "busy" there. I believe Tri-State also kicks in for the trophies, I'd have to ask Albee what they all do for that event.

For a 20 car field only and only one class of racing (bracket) this works great but for the number of classes a shootout uses I don't think it would work very well and that is why I inquired about track rental.

90blkbrd
10-16-2009, 08:28 AM
:( I didn't make it on the map

I believe that map is from a 2005 thread and I'm not on it either.