PDA

View Full Version : Car Won't Start (UPDATE with fix)



MN12SC
10-26-2009, 03:02 PM
OK so i just bought my 3rd Super Coupe. Its a 95 Auto. I got it for $1000 bucks but it won't start. It turns over (when the battery is charged) but won't start. I have changed the cam sensor & Maf sensor.

So here are my questions. I know my 92 had a DIS. but i can't seem to find it on my 95. Where is it located on a 95? Also, is it possible to pull codes on a car the won't start?

I plan on checking TPS, IAC, and O2 sensor.

Would any of these not working properly cause the car not to start?

Could it be the EEC?

thanks for any help

Mike

slowpoke
10-26-2009, 03:42 PM
did you check the codes yet, dont start changing parts without checking the codes. not checking codes is like throwing gas on a fire to put it out. it just doesnt work out well.

S_Mazza
10-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Yes, you can check the codes, you just can't do the running test.

The DIS should be on the passenger side fender.

The O2s and the IAC probably shouldn't make it not start. The TPS ... maybe.

I would check the fuel pressure and check for the presence of spark before going any further.

David Neibert
10-26-2009, 04:54 PM
I would check the fuel pressure and check for the presence of spark before going any further.


I agree...you should also install a fresh set of spark plugs. Suggest Autolite copper 103s gapped at .040.

David

slowpoke
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
when turning the engine over is there an up shift light that stays on underneath the tach? not sure about the auto's but with the manuals if that light stays on then it means your crank position sensor is shot. :)

MN12SC
10-26-2009, 09:08 PM
I agree...you should also install a fresh set of spark plugs. Suggest Autolite copper 103s gapped at .040.

David

I will go buy some tonight when i get off work. I pulled one out and looked at it and it looked like it was gapped too much.

MN12SC
10-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Yes, you can check the codes, you just can't do the running test.

The DIS should be on the passenger side fender.

The O2s and the IAC probably shouldn't make it not start. The TPS ... maybe.

I would check the fuel pressure and check for the presence of spark before going any further.

How do I check fuel pressure and presence of spark?

specops_SC
10-27-2009, 01:21 AM
when turning the engine over is there an up shift light that stays on underneath the tach? not sure about the auto's but with the manuals if that light stays on then it means your crank position sensor is shot. :)

two balancers later, i can assure you the upshift light comes on if the crank sensor isnt getting a reading :P

Moses

S_Mazza
10-27-2009, 10:41 AM
How do I check fuel pressure and presence of spark?

Well, it's not too hard. For spark, just pull one of the wire connectors off the coil pack. Let it sit alongside the coil pack so there are just a couple of inches between the metal terminals. Then crank the car over and see if it sparks. If it is sparking, then that means the computer is at least trying to start the car. If you don't get spark, then the computer is holding spark back for some reason, or can't fire the coil pack for some reason. Possible causes would be lack of crank sensor signal or bad ignition module, among others.

For fuel pressure, try renting / borrowing a test kit at your local parts store. You simply connect it to the Schrader valve on the fuel rail. (It's located just to the right of the supercharger.) Then turn the key to "on" and see what it reads. (Should be about 39 psi.) Then (try to) start it up and see what it reads. After cranking, does the pressure hold steady, or does it bleed down fast?

MN12SC
10-29-2009, 10:17 AM
OK So i bought a code reader off ebay last night. Hopefully jit gets here quick. In the meantime i'm going to do the spark test.

MN12SC
11-04-2009, 12:41 AM
OK so i got my code reader today. Here are the codes it pulled.

DTC:564 Electro Drive Fan Circuit fault
DTC:621 Shift Solenoid #1 Circuit fault
DTC:622 Shift Solenoid #2 Circuit fault
DTC:111 System PASS, no continuos memory fault codes present

so to me that says nothing. can someone translate that for me. i would think that because of the last one the there are no problems with sensors. am i right?

backtobirds
11-04-2009, 01:22 AM
OK so i got my code reader today. Here are the codes it pulled.

DTC:564 Electro Drive Fan Circuit fault
DTC:621 Shift Solenoid #1 Circuit fault
DTC:622 Shift Solenoid #2 Circuit fault
DTC:111 System PASS, no continuos memory fault codes present

so to me that says nothing. can someone translate that for me. i would think that because of the last one the there are no problems with sensors. am i right?

DTC504 - problem in the radiator fan motor or possibly relay control module
DTC621 and 622 - Problem with the transmission shift solenoids, possibly a wiring issue since they are both set
DTC111 - the PCM is OK

I would check spark and fuel like S MAZZA said before you start chasing electrical issues, that will at least point you in the right direction, since none of those codes will cause a no start. After that maybe make sure the transmission harness is secure.

kneedragger25
11-04-2009, 01:47 AM
When I pull in a car at the shop and its a crank no start first thing I do is get a can of starting fluid remove the air cleaner and get someone to crank it over while I shoot the fuid in the TB if it turn on you have either a bad pump or relay. if nothing than you have no spark. to me that is the fastest way to find which system has the fault.

slowpoke
11-04-2009, 05:51 AM
When I pull in a car at the shop and its a crank no start first thing I do is get a can of starting fluid remove the air cleaner and get someone to crank it over while I shoot the fuid in the TB if it turn on you have either a bad pump or relay. if nothing than you have no spark. to me that is the fastest way to find which system has the fault.

your correct in the aspect of that is the fastest way. however your playing with fire, you run a chance that the system might be flooded due to over flow and could cause a back flash and then possibly giving you a funny nik name depending on who see's it. :)

MN12SC
11-11-2009, 06:43 PM
ok so changed the spark plugs and they looked pretty nasty. I went to try to start it after charging the battery and now it won't even crank. I pulled the battery out and plan to buy a new one today. I was reading on another post that a bad battery could cause the car not to start? SO maybe that might be my problem? We'll see.

95_XR7
11-11-2009, 07:16 PM
Before buying a new one, take the one out of the car to Autozone or whatever is close to you and verify it's any good.

MN12SC
11-12-2009, 12:19 AM
I bought a new battery and hooked it up. Had my wife help me do the spark test. It has spark. While doing the spark test I could really smell the gas. No shift light while cranking. Any ideas?

justin
11-12-2009, 12:54 AM
when you turn the key with the battery charged ask your wife to lean down by the back bumper and see if she can hear the fuel pump? it will humm....:)

95_XR7
11-12-2009, 01:32 PM
when you turn the key with the battery charged ask your wife to lean down by the back bumper and see if she can hear the fuel pump? it will humm....:)

Might be better if you listen by the rear wheels. The fuel tank is directly in front of them.

S_Mazza
11-12-2009, 06:01 PM
If it has gas and spark and won't start, then I wonder if A.) The compression is good, and B.) Could your harmonic balancer have slipped so that the crank sensor still gets a signal, but an erroneous one? So it is firing the wrong cylinder?

95_XR7
11-12-2009, 07:34 PM
If it has gas and spark and won't start, then I wonder if A.) The compression is good, and B.) Could your harmonic balancer have slipped so that the crank sensor still gets a signal, but an erroneous one? So it is firing the wrong cylinder?

You may want to check the harmonic balancer. Should be a center bolt as well as four small ones? Or am I thinking of entirely something else?

decipha
11-12-2009, 08:19 PM
well, since the upshift light goes out when your cranking that means its getting a signal from the crankshaft position sensor... great

does the tach work when your cranking? If so that means your getting a signal from the cam sensor... excellent if it does, if not cheap $23 fix

you smell the fuel so lets assume your getting fuel ...cool

your getting spark from so thats a major plus


so whats preventing the car from starting up?

oh btw...throttle position sensor can not prevent a car from starting

what can prevent the car from starting is a vac leak... you start cheaking for vac leaks and you'll more than likely find your problem.

and also don't ever use ether (stater fluid) its a much more volatile combustion than gasoline and can destroy your top piston rings, if they thought you were low on compression before you can be certain with extended use of ether.

also the knock sensor has been said to prevent start up, thats bs don't believe it.

dis module could have been a possible but if your getting spark nope

spark plug gap isin't going to prevent the car from starting unless the electrode is resting on the tip making it back feed the coil

decipha
11-12-2009, 08:23 PM
oh yeah if that don't work try disconnecting the cam sensor and starting the car, may take 15-20 attempts.. the more fuel you smell the better, don't let nobody stand behind the car cuz it will backfire.

MN12SC
11-12-2009, 08:30 PM
how do i check for vac leak? Spray soapy water on the vac lines?

MN12SC
11-12-2009, 08:43 PM
i just read another post that describes the same problem i have and it was a vac leak behind the inlet plenum. gives me something to try

S_Mazza
11-13-2009, 11:37 AM
very simple fix you'll be chasing your tail listening to these folks around here take it from an sc enthusiast that knows these cars (i currently own 5)

Don't listen to the rest of us, we don't own SCs and don't know what we are talking about. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

David Neibert
11-13-2009, 12:53 PM
Try holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking the motor...doing that shuts off the injectors and will make it easier to start if it's flooding or has a vacuum leak. To avoid damaging the starter, crank the motor in 10-15 second intervals, and allow about twice that time for starter to cool off in between attempts to start it.

David

95_XR7
11-13-2009, 04:48 PM
Don't listen to the rest of us, we don't own SCs and don't know what we are talking about. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh it's cool. He may have five SC's, but the real question to ask is whether or not any of them are running, and how well. :rolleyes:

justin
11-13-2009, 07:46 PM
I love how trying to help someone brings out all the a$$holes!:eek:

MN12SC
11-15-2009, 08:27 PM
Try holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking the motor...doing that shuts off the injectors and will make it easier to start if it's flooding or has a vacuum leak. To avoid damaging the starter, crank the motor in 10-15 second intervals, and allow about twice that time for starter to cool off in between attempts to start it.

David

tried to hold to gas pedal down still nothing...I can't wait till i can get more time to work on it...5 min here and there just isn't cutting it. Darn Kids :)

fturner
11-15-2009, 10:48 PM
I don't know anything because I only own 1 sc I guess, but did you happen to check if the center bolt is in place on the harmonic balancer? Reach inside the crank pulley. I'd lean towards the balancer having failed, and even if the bolt is there, its possible the front section of it has spun on the crank.

Fraser

MN12SC
11-16-2009, 09:13 PM
i will check the bolt on the harmonic balancer tonight

MN12SC
11-29-2009, 06:56 PM
so i checked the harmonic balancer. from what i can feel there aren't any bolts missing. there was 4 bolts on the outside and one in the middle. i also tried one more thing. the electrical connector that plugs into the TPS were barely holding on so i patched that to see if that would fix it. no good. i'm thinking its a huge vac leak because when it tries to start it it sounds like i can hear air. its weird to when its cranking it doesn't continually crank it'll stop then start again very quickly though. i'm at the point now where i think i am going to start tearing into the engine and who knows maybe i can stumble onto something.

micahd
12-17-2009, 10:53 AM
Any update on this? Did you get it running?

MN12SC
12-17-2009, 09:13 PM
no i haven't got it running, i need to start tearing the engine apart. i think its a vac leak somewhere. i'm waiting to get my tankless gas water heater installed so i can build a work bench before i tear into it.

shadow357x2
12-18-2009, 07:48 AM
just a thought. even with a vac leak wouldnt you still get at least a sputter? might run like pootie but should at least try. I noticed also that no one has mention the ignition switch, have you looked into that as a possible culprit? Then again I really wouldnt know I know very little about sc^s anyway S

MN12SC
12-18-2009, 10:13 AM
i haven't thought about the ignition switch. if the ignition switch were to blame would it still turn over but not start or would it just do nothing?

shadow357x2
12-18-2009, 10:39 AM
it has on 3 of mine in the past, not saying thats your problem but worth looking into. All the symtoms your describing are the same as mine were and an ignition switch was the gremlin. Theres a few threads on the site relating to it. S

MN12SC
12-19-2009, 04:21 PM
ok so i swapped out both the ignition switch and the tumbler (the old was worn out) its still doing the same thing. one thing i noticed today was that when the start is trying to start it the engine doesn't seem to be turning over all the time. i could be wrong but i didn't notice it before. Is it possible for the starter to just turn and turn and turn but not do anything to the motor?

S_Mazza
12-20-2009, 12:10 AM
ok so i swapped out both the ignition switch and the tumbler (the old was worn out) its still doing the same thing. one thing i noticed today was that when the start is trying to start it the engine doesn't seem to be turning over all the time. i could be wrong but i didn't notice it before. Is it possible for the starter to just turn and turn and turn but not do anything to the motor?

If your crankshaft is snapped, it can ...

shadow357x2
12-20-2009, 04:05 PM
ok so i swapped out both the ignition switch and the tumbler (the old was worn out) its still doing the same thing. one thing i noticed today was that when the start is trying to start it the engine doesn't seem to be turning over all the time. i could be wrong but i didn't notice it before. Is it possible for the starter to just turn and turn and turn but not do anything to the motor?

Does the starter just whine away like its not connected to anything? If so then snatch it off and take it to your local parts place they usually check them and alternators for free.
At this point I would highly recommend a compression test, which I saw was already mentioned earlier, but I havent seen where you said you have done it. That will give you and idea whats going on internally. While you are in there its a good idea also to pull the cam sensor cover off and check its positioning while the motor is tdc, that will let you know if the timing chains out of whack.
I dont really see a busted cam or crank but there is a possibility there.

S

sinhumane
12-20-2009, 05:06 PM
i'm having almost the exact issue with my 95 5-speed.... no start, crank, but sounds like it is hanging up somewhere.... did all the same troubleshooting processes.... notta... i know the crank/camshaft is fine because it started once more and purred like a kitten after it died on me and wouldnt restart.

i'm pretty sure its something electrical, i would start by replacing battery cables, that was going to be my next step, but as you can see in my info, i'm a little ways away from the good ol usa...

MN12SC
12-20-2009, 07:28 PM
yeah i was considering replacing the battery cables, i'm no mechanic so it doesn't quite make sense to me how something that is there and working can have flaws in it. I can see a sensor, but take the starter for example. If i hear it turning over to me that means that its working. Now, after reading a lot of different posts on hear throughout the years i know thats not exactly true. I will try the battery cables. I think after that I am going to start tearing the motor apart.

David Neibert
12-21-2009, 01:00 AM
yeah i was considering replacing the battery cables, i'm no mechanic so it doesn't quite make sense to me how something that is there and working can have flaws in it. I can see a sensor, but take the starter for example. If i hear it turning over to me that means that its working. Now, after reading a lot of different posts on hear throughout the years i know thats not exactly true. I will try the battery cables. I think after that I am going to start tearing the motor apart.

Are the belts and pulleys moving when you try starting the car ?

David

sinhumane
12-21-2009, 01:15 PM
i would drain your oil, verify that there are no metal shavings in it, if your crank pulley spins while cranking, you are good in that respect. i took my belt off and got it to start once, ran great... then when i tried again, same problem....

MN12SC
12-22-2009, 12:05 AM
i haven't done a commpression test. I plan on doing that and a fuel pressure test the weekend after christmas. I honestly don't think its having a problem getting fuel but if i check it then i will know for sure. As for the commpression i just read a general how to article and it is a lot simpler than I was thinking it would be. if the commpression is good then i will take the starter off and have it tested. as for the belts and pulleys spinning while cranking i will check that here in a bit and put another post up afterwards.

MN12SC
12-22-2009, 01:04 AM
ok so i had my wife help me and all of the belts and pulleys turn when trying to start it...so does that rule out the crankshaft being snapped??

David Neibert
12-22-2009, 01:28 AM
ok so i had my wife help me and all of the belts and pulleys turn when trying to start it...so does that rule out the crankshaft being snapped??

Yes, it does.

S_Mazza
12-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Well, that's good. So does it still seem to stop and start when cranking? If so, that could certainly be electrical. However, I just thought I would mention that I had a similar symptom when my lower intake manifold gaskets were leaking this past summer. If I let the car sit for a while, it was hard to turn over. It would crank - lug - crank - lug. I realized that it was because the leaky gaskets let in almost enough water to hydrolock the engine! So if you have been losing coolant, that might be something to check out. However, if you have not, then it's probably an electrical problem.

Kurt Sunday
12-22-2009, 03:48 PM
Hope this helps...

I bought a 90 SC that sat at a repair shop for 5.5 years. The shop put all new DIS, coil pack, cam and crank sensors... plugs etc. Cranked even had spark - but would not start. I put a new EEC in it and it started right up.

micahd
12-22-2009, 04:19 PM
I just found out that my problem isthe bolt for the harmonic balancer broke off. I had the same symptoms as you. Thought I would let you know.

shadow357x2
12-22-2009, 05:00 PM
I think he already checked that though.. Personally I would (1) do a compression test (2) then start chasing wires.
Its going to end up being something real simple and we all will go DOOHHHHH.
But thats my unprofessional opinion, Im sure others would disagree.
Ive got the wiring diagrams here on my alldata program so if there is a area you need let me know.



S

MN12SC
12-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Hope this helps...

I bought a 90 SC that sat at a repair shop for 5.5 years. The shop put all new DIS, coil pack, cam and crank sensors... plugs etc. Cranked even had spark - but would not start. I put a new EEC in it and it started right up.

wouldn't a code scanner be able to tell me that the EEC is bad?

MN12SC
12-22-2009, 09:48 PM
i did check the harmonic balancer and no bolts broken off. just out of curiousity though which bolt broke off the center one? or one of the 4 outer ones? I plan on doing a conpression test hopefully this weekend. If that is ok then i will have the starter tested and if that is good i will check fuel pressure, even though im sure its getting fuel, just to do process off elimination. After that, who knows. Maybe buy a new/used EEC? If i were to buy a 5 speed EEC would it work even though I have an auto? I plan on doing a tranny swap eventually anyway.

sinhumane
12-23-2009, 02:16 AM
no it wont work. the transmission is computer controlled, and the 5 speed eec doesnt have the tune for it.

now, also in my issue, i have the crank-lug, crank-lug problem. when i depress te scrader valve, i only get a fuel dribble....

the intake manifold leaking could be an issue, but when mine quit, it was one sudden fit and it died. when i got it to restart the one time, it ran fine, no squeaks, knocks, or smoke.

still dont think mine could be an eec, almost certain its a 'ghost' electrical problem.

justin
01-27-2010, 10:37 AM
Any new news? Whats the verdict???

MN12SC
01-27-2010, 11:52 AM
I haven't had much time to work on it. I do have some more questions about it though. Where is the EEC? I know its behind the glove box, I looked and to be honest I'm not sure where to look. Also, if I were to pull the intake and intercooler tubes off could I do the compression test with those off? Thanks for all the help on this.

S_Mazza
01-27-2010, 11:54 AM
I haven't had much time to work on it. I do have some more questions about it though. Where is the EEC? I know its behind the glove box, I looked and to be honest I'm not sure where to look. Also, if I were to pull the intake and intercooler tubes off could I do the compression test with those off? Thanks for all the help on this.

The EEC is all the way at the right side of the car, tucked up inside the dash or inner fender. It's kind of inconvenient.

Yes, you can test compression with the intake and intercooler removed. As long as the heads and valvetrain are installed, it will give you results.

Motohead
01-28-2010, 11:54 AM
i did check the harmonic balancer and no bolts broken off. just out of curiousity though which bolt broke off the center one? or one of the 4 outer ones? I plan on doing a conpression test hopefully this weekend. If that is ok then i will have the starter tested and if that is good i will check fuel pressure, even though im sure its getting fuel, just to do process off elimination. After that, who knows. Maybe buy a new/used EEC? If i were to buy a 5 speed EEC would it work even though I have an auto? I plan on doing a tranny swap eventually anyway.

Watch the balancer while someone is cranking the car check to see if the pulley wobbles. Stock balancers can slip and throw off timing reference.
Have you tried cranking the car with the gas pedel mashed to the floor?
That will turn off the injectors.

justin
01-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Watch the balancer while someone is cranking the car check to see if the pulley wobbles. Stock balancers can slip and throw off timing reference.
Have you tried cranking the car with the gas pedel mashed to the floor?
That will turn off the injectors.

Did you even read the thread?

Motohead
01-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Did you even read the thread?

Thats harsh I'm just trying to help

MN12SC
02-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Just to give you guys an update, I haven't gotten the compression test done yet. I have a feeling this is going to turn into a long project.

shoalcracker
02-21-2010, 06:46 PM
Looks like car has been sitting for 3 mths. Did it sit for extended period prior to your purchase.

Skank gas full of condensation?

drifte89
02-25-2010, 06:54 PM
I have an 89 that sat for 5 years and the guy could not get it running, i bought it, brought it home, dropped the gas tank and cleaned it out with straight rubbing alcohol. about a half gallon or so. slaushed it around in the tank and let it drain and dry for a day in warm temperature. Put it back in ad put 93 octane in it,,,,,started right up and ran great. Also a good time to check your Ubolts on the driveshaft, fuel pump and the e-brake cable so you dont have to go back into it later:)

MN12SC
03-21-2010, 07:59 PM
I have finally started tearing the engine apart. One thing I noticed right away was loose bolts. Two of the four SC top bolts were pretty loose same with some of the ones on the IC tubes. But the thing that puzzled me was the amount of oil that came out of the lower IC tube. It was enought to make a puddle of oil about 6 in in diameter. Is that normal?

David Neibert
03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
I have finally started tearing the engine apart. One thing I noticed right away was loose bolts. Two of the four SC top bolts were pretty loose same with some of the ones on the IC tubes. But the thing that puzzled me was the amount of oil that came out of the lower IC tube. It was enought to make a puddle of oil about 6 in in diameter. Is that normal?

That's normal it comes from the PCV valve being plumbed to the inlet plenum. I recently installed an oil seperator to prevent it from happening.

David

decipha
03-22-2010, 01:37 AM
im not surprised i figured it was a vac leak, i also didn't mean to offend anyone with my post i was just stating that the folks before me were recommending you check things that were known to be working and that would have you chasing your tail.

hope you get it sorted :cool:

SCTBIRD1173
03-22-2010, 09:38 AM
Do yourself a favor and pull the accessory belt off, then reach down and grab your crank pulley and try to move it.

I had the same problem with my 90 and although, most of the time, my car would try to start it was close to the same problem as you are having. When I removed the drive belt and took the tension off the crank pulley, the balancer practically fell off in my hand! And yes, the crank bolt was still there, it broke about halfway into the crank.

Good luck man!

MN12SC
03-23-2010, 06:39 PM
Do yourself a favor and pull the accessory belt off, then reach down and grab your crank pulley and try to move it.

I had the same problem with my 90 and although, most of the time, my car would try to start it was close to the same problem as you are having. When I removed the drive belt and took the tension off the crank pulley, the balancer practically fell off in my hand! And yes, the crank bolt was still there, it broke about halfway into the crank.

Good luck man!

Tried it, no dice. The balancer felt like every other pulley. I'm thinking its a vac leak. When my wife gets home I'm going to try to put it all back together and make sure all nuts and bolts are good and tight and see what happens.

MN12SC
03-23-2010, 10:08 PM
tried to put it back together and i cant get the SC top on. the holes don't line up for some reason??? I did notice RTV on one of the screws for the SC top and most of the top of one of the treads on the supercharger was worn down to nothing. Leading me to believe that maybe that is where the leak is and the guy i bought it from was trying to seal it with RTV. My plan is to us helicoils. Anyone know what size I would need to use?

S_Mazza
03-24-2010, 10:41 AM
tried to put it back together and i cant get the SC top on. the holes don't line up for some reason??? I did notice RTV on one of the screws for the SC top and most of the top of one of the treads on the supercharger was worn down to nothing. Leading me to believe that maybe that is where the leak is and the guy i bought it from was trying to seal it with RTV. My plan is to us helicoils. Anyone know what size I would need to use?

Well, the original bolts are M8x1.25. So you could just get helicoils for that size.

However, be careful if you do this repair, because the holes are not that deep. If you go too far, you will end up inside your blower case! (Ask me how I know.) So you need a bottoming tap to do the helicoil correctly.

Also, instead of using helicoils, you could drill and tap for a slightly larger bolt, like an M10. But again, you need a bottoming tap.

MN12SC
03-25-2010, 07:28 PM
i put the helicoils in and put everything back together. still won't start. i'm stumped i was convinced that this was going to fix it. anyone have any ideas? where else could there be a big vac leak?

drifte89
03-26-2010, 09:12 AM
If you know its a vac leak, have you tried shooting carbcleaner in the air intake while turning the engine over and watching where the white mist escapes? this takes two people, if you have replaced all electronic sensors and computer then I would suspect a timing or compression problem

sinhumane
03-27-2010, 02:25 PM
fuel pump. :)

MN12SC
05-16-2010, 12:14 AM
ok so i started working on my car again. i got a fuel pressure tester. before i did the test i put a new fuel filter on. i got 30 psi reading on the gauge and holding steady. my check gauges and check engine light both came on while i was trying to start the car. so, i ran my code reader and it came up with koeo dtc:542 fuel pump secondary circuit fault. so is that saying the fuel pump is good but something else in the fuiel sytem isn't? maybe the fuel pressure regulator? could it just be bad gas?

S_Mazza
05-16-2010, 02:05 AM
I am not sure, but I think there are 2 current paths for the fuel pump. One is active for pump priming, and the other is active in "Start" or "Run". Maybe that is your problem ... the pump primes but won't sustain pressure. Did you recheck the pressure after cranking the car over? If it drops, then you probably aren't getting sustained voltage to the pump. If it stays high, then ... hmm ... I dunno.

MN12SC
05-16-2010, 12:01 PM
it held pressure for at least a half hour. how long should it hold?

EATONBIRD
05-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Would it still prime if the fuel pump shut off swith in the trunk is tripped, This is my First time reading this thread and I have been thinking this for a while. (since page 2)

MN12SC
05-21-2010, 09:13 PM
i bought a new (used) ecm. i got the old one out and i'm almost done putting the new one back in. i was reading it the haynes manual that code 542 means that the ecm isn't talking to the engine. i'm really thinking that this will work. if not then i have an extra ecm. :)

madebyme
05-22-2010, 08:57 AM
I am having a very similar issue with my car and our posts are almost identical. Please let me know what you find out and if it worked. More often then not, people get the problem fixed and never follow up on the thread.

MN12SC
05-22-2010, 12:31 PM
I am having a very similar issue with my car and our posts are almost identical. Please let me know what you find out and if it worked. More often then not, people get the problem fixed and never follow up on the thread.

not initially. i got it plugged back in and went to fire it up and the battery was almost dead. i have it on the charger right now. i'm not sure if there is anything that i need to do to let it relearn anything.

MN12SC
05-22-2010, 05:47 PM
car still won't start and there aren't any codes coming up now. i'm at a total loss. i think i am going to buy a ircm from someone and see if that works. if the ircm wasn't functioning correctly wouldn't it throw a code?

madebyme
05-30-2010, 01:44 PM
I've been messing with mine and got it running, almost... it runs if I give it about 3/4 pedal steady and it starts to increase rpm's after a few seconds, then it bucks a bit and dies. I swapped ECM's, crank sensor, and tested just about all the components... no change. Have a slight wobble in the crank pulley but I tightened the bolts and I think it went away. I need to track down vaccuum lines and I thinking maybe the fuel pressure regulator. Would that cause it to surge and die? I can also hear the fuel pump relays clicking just before the surge. Any thoughts? I really need to get it going soon or I'm afraid I'll have to sell it.

sinhumane
05-30-2010, 02:19 PM
try replacing the idle air control valve. will cause a dying problem.

madebyme
05-30-2010, 08:13 PM
try replacing the idle air control valve. will cause a dying problem.

Anyone want to loan me one to test? The shotgun approach to buying parts is getting very old...

S_Mazza
05-30-2010, 11:50 PM
It shouldn't be dying wihtout the IAC, especially at RPMs above idle. If you have the car set up right, you should be able to drive it fine with the IAC unplugged.

Duffy Floyd
05-31-2010, 12:47 AM
Madebyme,

Crank Pulley should have NO WOBBLE. Your harmonic balancer could very well have gone south. If it is broken it could have spun throwing off your timing and causing your issues.

Duffy Floyd
05-31-2010, 12:48 AM
anlo just went through this.

decipha
05-31-2010, 01:21 AM
check that the ignition coil is creating enough spark

unplug the iac and try to start the car

be sure you have a nice and strong battery weak batteries and sc ecu's don't go together ;)

if that fails... DIS module ?

rlong
05-31-2010, 03:25 AM
ive never had problems with dis or coil pack or ircm or ecm
i have had probs with crank and cam sensor and harmonic balancer and fuel pressure regulator . after reading all your posts im thinking harmonic balancer , or wet plugs why are you smelling gas ?. if you have spark i would take the hose off the throttle body and open the butterfly and funnel in about 1/2 cup of gas and hook the hose back on to minimize risk of fire
and see if you at least get a sputter. my harmonic balancer broke and the center bolt was still tight , it still idled but no power and no boost . if it spun much more im sure it wouldnt have run . so thats noway to tell its good until you take it off and see for yourself

rlong
05-31-2010, 04:07 AM
in fact the guys here on sccoa helped me find my broken harmonic balancer and helped me remove the broken piece without removing the timing cover, and they helped me find a good bhj balancer too

God bless you
ralph

MN12SC
05-31-2010, 05:22 PM
ive never had problems with dis or coil pack or ircm or ecm
i have had probs with crank and cam sensor and harmonic balancer and fuel pressure regulator . after reading all your posts im thinking harmonic balancer , or wet plugs why are you smelling gas ?. if you have spark i would take the hose off the throttle body and open the butterfly and funnel in about 1/2 cup of gas and hook the hose back on to minimize risk of fire
and see if you at least get a sputter. my harmonic balancer broke and the center bolt was still tight , it still idled but no power and no boost . if it spun much more im sure it wouldnt have run . so thats noway to tell its good until you take it off and see for yourself

i just bought a ircm from someone off here. i'll swap that out and if that doesn't work my plan is to check the fuel pressure regulator. i have been trying to do the least time consuming fixes without spending too much money on it. i may even sell it and buy one that is running. thanks for your input

MN12SC
06-06-2010, 09:59 PM
i put the "new" ircm in today and it doesn't surprise me that it didn't work. I have a couple of questions after doing this. What does this relay module control. i guess i was under the assumption that it had all the relays for the car in it. the other question is on the stock air box just below where the maf plugs in there is another plug but i can't seem to find a wire to plug into it. What is supposed to get plugged into it?

Duffy Floyd
06-06-2010, 10:09 PM
EEC / PCM Power
High and low speed fan power

On late models....Fuel Pump Relay

That's what I remember off the top of my head....at Carlisle...no access to tech data

MN12SC
06-07-2011, 03:15 PM
ok so after spending the year working on my car here and there i finally got it started. I changed out the coil pack last week and fixed some broken wires but it still wouldn't start. I went to go work on it today after getting some info about the alarm possibly causing it. I removed one of the inputs to the keyless entry and it started right up. I then switched the wires and it also fired right up as well as with both in. So i'm thinking I must have reset the alarm by unplugging it? Maybe? Either way it runs now. I just wanted to make sure if anyone else was having the same symptoms as me gets this info.