Ball Joint/Tie Rod Test

I'm getting some noise in my front suspension, sounds like a grinding when turning the wheel to the left only, also a slight clunking and slop in the steering wheel in park when turning the wheel to the left and right quickly like you're movie driving.

If the tire, jacked up, can be moved front of car to back of car, that's tie-rod? From 12 to 6 is ball joint right? Any other way to tell or thoughts from above mentioned conditions?

Previous owner claims to have replaced the upper control arms about 8000 miles ago, LCA's are originals.
Thanks,
Phil

well the upper ball joint is no replaceable by itself unlike the lowers new ones can be pressed in and make sure you get the lower balljoints the have a cotter pin i bout a set of lowers and the nut backed off because of not having the cotter pin and thank god i was driving slow turning into a driveway

It could also be the hub bearing going bad, or the strut rod bushings.

- Dan

could be loose steering rack bolts or inner tie rod bad too.
You need somebody to turn the wheel back and fourth while you watch behind the wheels/under the car to see what's going on.

Phillio99 said:

I'm getting some noise in my front suspension, sounds like a grinding when turning the wheel to the left only, also a slight clunking and slop in the steering wheel in park when turning the wheel to the left and right quickly like you're movie driving.

If the tire, jacked up, can be moved front of car to back of car, that's tie-rod? From 12 to 6 is ball joint right? Any other way to tell or thoughts from above mentioned conditions?

Previous owner claims to have replaced the upper control arms about 8000 miles ago, LCA's are originals.
Thanks,
Phil

Click to expand...

Sounds like you have it about right. If you are getting motion in and out when wiggling the sides of the tire and suspect a bad tie rod, just grab the tie rod end and try to twist it. If it doesn't put up any resistance, then it's definitely bad. It's a subjective judgement, but a really bad one will be obvious.

Thanks for the input guys.
Does the noise's presence only during left turns rule out anything? The car was aligned by a Firestone 1500 miles ago, the steering wheel is angled slightly to the passenger side when the car is tracking straight.

The noise is passenger side specific as well, should have noted that in the original post. It's a grinding noise turning left only, a clunking/bushing squeaking sounds when the car is tracking straight over bumps. If it were wheel bearing it would be a constant noise right?

I'll get a chance to take a look sometime this weekend, unfortunately I'll have to drive the car a couple times between now and then. Worst case scenario would be upper control arms I imagine, any ballpark on the necessary time required to swap one?
Thanks again,
Phil

Wheel bearings can cause intermittent noises. But I think they usually show up in fairly constant hums or squeaks. It could potentially be a bearing, though, because when a bearing goes bad, the hub and rotor can shift relative to the caliper. So maybe the rotor is shifting and dragging on the pad.

After a long drive, does one of the wheels feel much hotter than the other?

The driver's side UCA is pretty easy ... figure 3 hours maximum. The passenger side can be tricky with the accumulator blocking the rear bolt. Not sure how long that might take if you can't get at the bolt.

Update

Been under the car a few times now, can't seem to see anything wrong with tie-rods or ball joints. Ball joints are intact and in good shape. My guess is the car just has a case of the winter bushing crunches. Go figure.

Maybe use some silicone spray and spray the bushings and see if that helps. Also, it could be the upper strut mount bushings. When they get old they will squeak just turning hte wheel.If the wheel moves towards the front and back, then I would look at strut rod bushings. Also make sure the K-member bolts are tight.

I'll bump this up, I'm going to replace the outer tie rods tomorrow, any tips?

the way we check for noise in the suspention at my shop is
1st go for a drive radio off
2nd once you hear the sound check ball joints tie rods and bearings
3rd have the mechanic under the car with a flashlight looking for play
left to right has play most likley inner tie rod but could be outer tie rod. up and down could be ball joint if they are moving if not than bearings.
so to finish my post you need 2 people 1 to shake down the front end the 2nd watching for play.

None2Slow said:

Maybe use some silicone spray and spray the bushings and see if that helps. Also, it could be the upper strut mount bushings. When they get old they will squeak just turning hte wheel.If the wheel moves towards the front and back, then I would look at strut rod bushings. Also make sure the K-member bolts are tight.

Click to expand...

Bounce the front end and listen. Get under the car and inspect the rubber boot around the LCA ball joint. If it's ripped apart they need to be replaced. Spay some WD40 inside the joint and see if the noise goes away. If it does it will come back soon. Replace the LCA on both sides.

Well with the car on a stand, there's certainly play left to right. Under the car, the outer tie rod has movement when you try to twist it. I'm guessing it's the outer as the boot at the spindle appears to be broken and grimy. Any tips on replacing the outer tie rod?

Well with the car on a stand, there's certainly play left to right. Under the car, the outer tie rod has movement when you try to twist it. I'm guessing it's the outer as the boot at the spindle appears to be broken and grimy. Any tips on replacing the outer tie rod?

It's not too hard ... in theory. You need to remove the cotter pin on the castle nut at the spindle. Then you need to break loose the castle nut. If the tie rod end is pretty well stuck in the spindle, then this should go all right. Or if there is a hex end on the tie rod, that should be helpful. But if the tie rod slips and starts spinning in the spindle, you will need to cut the castle nut off. Once you break the nut loose, make sure you remove it all the way before trying to break the tie rod end loose from the spindle. (Because you don't want the tie rod end to spin while the nut is still on.) Then reinstall the nut so it sits about flush with the end of the stud.

Once the nut is loose, you need to break loose the tie rod end from the spindle. You can try to just whack the spindle next to the stud and hope it pops out. You can try to pickle-fork it loose, although clearance is very limited. But I didn't find these methods to work. The tool that is most helpful is a "ball joint separator" of a very particular style. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=BK_7769096_0000999999

Then, mark the inner tie rod where the jam nut sits (with a paint pen or something). Loosen the jam nut while holding the tie rod end steady with a big wrench. Then just spin the tie rod end off the inner tie rod.

Installation is the reverse of removal. Alignment suggested afterward.

Hope it helps.

Update

Still having some noise in my front suspension, it appears the strut rod bushings will need to be replaced. Can anyone shed some light on what tools I will need and what the process will be to replace these. I think I remember some abnormally large sockets are involved...

Phillio99 said:

Still having some noise in my front suspension, it appears the strut rod bushings will need to be replaced. Can anyone shed some light on what tools I will need and what the process will be to replace these. I think I remember some abnormally large sockets are involved...

Click to expand...

If it is like mine were, it will almost be a two person job to get the nuts off the ends of the strut rods, particularly if they have never been off (or it has been a very long time since they were loosened).

I would also recommend spraying them with a very good penetrant like PB Blaster and letting them soak at least overnight before trying to loosen them.

As I recall, they are torqued very high. You also need to place a wrench on the flat section of the strut rod to prevent it from rotating while you use a wrench/breaker bar/ratchet on the nuts on each end. This is why it becomes so difficult for a single person to do. Having a high-torque air wrench would definitely help in breaking the nuts loose.

I was able to lower the car to the point where I could get the wrench that I was using to hold the strut rod stationary jammed against the concrete driveway while I used all my force to turn on the nuts.

You will want to have the vehicle supported on jack stands while performing this work and you will want to use a jack under the lower ball joint to lift the vehicle just enough to start to clear the jackstand (simulating ride height) before performing final tightening of all fittings.

Good Luck,

Ted

Sounds like I'm going to have myself some fun, at least I'm in a garage in Chicago and not out on a driveway. Appreciate the tips, if anyone else has anything feel free to share.

To reply to the title question, a simple test is if you can move it by hand.

I find that the swaybar links tend to need attention as well as the upper a-arm joints at the top of the spindle if you're just looking for typical suspects.

Inspect for torn or missing boots, check for erratic tire wear, measure from a common point on the car down to the ground (concrete is better of course). You might want to try to remove as much dirt/road grime as possible first.

Take it to a shop that does free quotes for alignment inspections perhaps. Sears, etc. - anyone that can put it on a rack and take a close look. You don't have to let them do the work, at least at that time. Just don't let them take the car apart as part of the process You can do the work and then bring it back to them for an alignment, as an example.

Quick Question

Hey guys, getting going on this, any clue on the size of the frame strut rod nut, going to run out and buy that size, just not sure on the specific size.
Thanks,
Phil