concerns about 180 thermostat

90turbo1

Registered User
so I have been reading posts on here about 180 deg thermostats. some say dont do it without the computer programed to accept the new thermostat and some say that they did it with no problems.

i purchased the 180 thermostat and i am just wondering if I did something that I shouldnt have.

i have a 10 percent blower pulley, 255lph pump, and cleaned up manifolds and true dual exhaust.

my question is that the fuel injection is programed along with fan to operate with a 190 t-stat. so what am I doing that is negitive to my car by running this t-stat?

the car seems to run hot when idling in shop. i dont think low speed fan comes on but I know the high speed does. I also have a coolant drip from bottom of t-stat housing so I need to remove it again, so should I be running a stock t-stat with this car?

thanks
 
In most cases folks have found the car ends up running hotter without the fan on temps being lowered to compensate.

To efficiently cool the coolant in our tiny rads there has to be "sitting" time in the rad to allow for heat to be extracted out, and with a 180 installed thats not going to happen as the coolant will be allowed to flow continuously at full speed and since the fans won't come on until 220F, you have a run-a-way train at that point. BTW, the stock tstat is around 197, not 190.

Email me for more information if you want.

Fraser
 
yeah my mistake, I believe I found a 195 T-stat but I might just go get a ford factory one.

thanks
 
nope that's why I'm going back plus a few members recommend staying with the 195 and a all aluminum radiator....

on a side note my car has never overheated or ran any hotter with the 180..
 
nope that's why I'm going back plus a few members recommend staying with the 195 and a all aluminum radiator....

on a side note my car has never overheated or ran any hotter with the 180..

I'm sure it didn't overheat but, at times, I bet it ran hotter than with a stock tstat in.

Did u have a real temp gauge in to verify it didn't run any hotter ?
 
No real temp gauge I was just going by the in dash . but i do notice it takes a while longer to get up to temp and driving on the e way in cold whether you will see the gauge fall fast . The gauge sits a little passed half way before and after the 180 was installed /street traffic/ e way it sits around the n . it is possible that it might have ran a little hotter because the in dash sucks lol.....
 
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To efficiently cool the coolant in our tiny rads there has to be "sitting" time in the rad to allow for heat to be extracted out, and with a 180 installed thats not going to happen as the coolant will be allowed to flow continuously at full speed and since the fans won't come on until 220F, you have a run-a-way train at that point. BTW, the stock tstat is around 197, not 190.

I would be curious to hear of your experiences with this occurring, as the idea of "sitting" time with fluid flow and heat exchange doesn't really compute from a theoretical standpoint. i.e. If the fan is going to come on 220f, it doesn't matter if the thermostat opens at 180 vs 197, the fan will still come on at 220f, and the water can't get hotter by opening sooner vs later. Water moving slower doesn't cool better than water moving faster, in theory.
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14...apability_in_high-performance_automobiles.htm

The effect you may see from a lower temp thermostat is that your car takes longer to reach normal operating temps. With a thermostat at 197, the SC is setup to keep engine temps right around 195 to 210 just driving around with no a/c. If your cooling system is in great shape, and you use a 180 thermostat, then it's more likely coolant temps would hang around 175 to 190 which could have an impact on fuel efficiency.
 
I would be curious to hear of your experiences with this occurring, as the idea of "sitting" time with fluid flow and heat exchange doesn't really compute from a theoretical standpoint. i.e. If the fan is going to come on 220f, it doesn't matter if the thermostat opens at 180 vs 197, the fan will still come on at 220f, and the water can't get hotter by opening sooner vs later. Water moving slower doesn't cool better than water moving faster, in theory.
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14...apability_in_high-performance_automobiles.htm

The effect you may see from a lower temp thermostat is that your car takes longer to reach normal operating temps. With a thermostat at 197, the SC is setup to keep engine temps right around 195 to 210 just driving around with no a/c. If your cooling system is in great shape, and you use a 180 thermostat, then it's more likely coolant temps would hang around 175 to 190 which could have an impact on fuel efficiency.

Out of curiosity then, why do alot of people have sudden over heating issues when going to a 180 tstat and leaving the fan on temps at stock, but as soon as they lower the temps of the fans everything runs great?

Finally, why do people end up with over heating problems when there is no tstat installed and the fluid flow is allowed to go a full speed through the rad? You would think it would be the reverse.

Its all over these forums with that problem. I even witnessed it on my car when I forgot to lower the fan on temps, and it started climbing way up there, which it never did with the 197 installed and fans at stock.

Fraser
 
I would be curious to hear of your experiences with this occurring, as the idea of "sitting" time with fluid flow and heat exchange doesn't really compute from a theoretical standpoint. i.e. If the fan is going to come on 220f, it doesn't matter if the thermostat opens at 180 vs 197, the fan will still come on at 220f, and the water can't get hotter by opening sooner vs later. Water moving slower doesn't cool better than water moving faster, in theory.
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14...apability_in_high-performance_automobiles.htm

The effect you may see from a lower temp thermostat is that your car takes longer to reach normal operating temps. With a thermostat at 197, the SC is setup to keep engine temps right around 195 to 210 just driving around with no a/c. If your cooling system is in great shape, and you use a 180 thermostat, then it's more likely coolant temps would hang around 175 to 190 which could have an impact on fuel efficiency.

Mike,

I subscribe to the same cooling system theory as you do. I've tried everything from stock to 160 degree thermostats, and I think the 180 is the best for an SC. My experince has been that you won't see any increase in cooling performance from stock vs 180 degree while sitting in traffic (no air flow) unless fan settings are adjusted to come on at lower temps. You will see an improvement when driving above 40 mph because there is usually enough air moving through the radiator, that the fan is no longer needed.

David
 
ok ok ok there seems to be a lot of technical and not so technical theorys out there.

so reading from my manuals when I went to auto training many years ago.

the reason for a thermostat is to provide engine cooling within a specific range.

so in a nut shell here is how it goes. when engine is off engine cold. coolant is same temp on both sides of shut thermostat. engine starts. heat is then transfered to coolant inside engine block raising temp. rad temp will remain some what constatant. when thermostat opens in our case 197 deg. it allows the heated water to flow into the cold radiator and the cold or cooler fluid in radiator is then drawn into the motor to remove heat. since the coolant is now below 197 the thermostat closes and the hot coolant looses heat in radiator (the sitting time as some have mentioned it) and the coolant in engine once again raises the temp till thermostat opens again. this happens many times per minute. so switching to a 180 will open sooner (in theory) causing this sitting time to become less. combine this with a some what innefficient radiator and the heat becoming picked up can no longer be transfered to the air and it keeps climbing and climbing well past the 220 when the fan comes on. and i think (not 100 percent sure) but most cars the fan is not allowed to turn on over a set MPH because it turns into a restriction to the "ram air" through the radiator. ours may be different but its basic theroy.

i think more the 180 t stat will quickly point out a cooling defficiency that a person may or not know they have as in my car. it runs just fine with 195 t-stat but 180 will start to over heat, same brand ect.
 
Back in the day of clutch fans and carberators a swap of a tstat did what it was suppossed to do..Then comes fuel injection and clutch fans...TO low a coolant temp an dteh computer would think teh car was still warming up...Throw in an electric fan and the car can actually get hotter..And once heat soaked its harder to cool down.

So I only use a lower tstat when I can control my electric fan via the EEC. That being said I stick at 180. 160 seems way to low. As far as the water not sitting in rad long enough to cool. That is controlled by the orifice size of the thermostat. The thermostat opens before the fans go on
 
Out of curiosity then, why do alot of people have sudden over heating issues when going to a 180 tstat and leaving the fan on temps at stock, but as soon as they lower the temps of the fans everything runs great?

Finally, why do people end up with over heating problems when there is no tstat installed and the fluid flow is allowed to go a full speed through the rad? You would think it would be the reverse.

Its all over these forums with that problem. I even witnessed it on my car when I forgot to lower the fan on temps, and it started climbing way up there, which it never did with the 197 installed and fans at stock.

Fraser

Faser,

I simply don't know why some people have overheating issues when switching. That's why I asked from you as I wasn't sure if you did any testing to prove out how the SC system is working. Theory is fine, but practical application is king. The only catch is that we are talking about thermodynamic properties that have been very well established. As such, there should be no significant increase in cooling system temps through adding a lower temperature thermostat. The only thing I can think of is if the EEC-IV changes fueling or timing based on the lower coolant temp that increases combustion chamber temps outside what would normally happen.

Now from my experience, there are a number of questionable thermostats out there. I've had two fail (one from NAPA, another from Car Quest) in my car in one year. I now check every thermostat before I install it.
 
I ran a 180 mr gasket "performance thermostat" in my 95 for a few weeks (before i took the car apart). It ran fine, i saw no difference in cooling properties. I dont know why, but as far as my stock gauge tells me, my car runs cold. i will be putting in an autometer coolant temp and oil press gauge withing the next few weeks so ill see how that goes and what the temp really is.
 
I ran a 180 mr gasket "performance thermostat" in my 95 for a few weeks (before i took the car apart). It ran fine, i saw no difference in cooling properties. I dont know why, but as far as my stock gauge tells me, my car runs cold. i will be putting in an autometer coolant temp and oil press gauge withing the next few weeks so ill see how that goes and what the temp really is.

Its wintertime
 
ok ok ok there seems to be a lot of technical and not so technical theorys out there.

so reading from my manuals when I went to auto training many years ago.

the reason for a thermostat is to provide engine cooling within a specific range.

so in a nut shell here is how it goes. when engine is off engine cold. coolant is same temp on both sides of shut thermostat. engine starts. heat is then transfered to coolant inside engine block raising temp. rad temp will remain some what constatant. when thermostat opens in our case 197 deg. it allows the heated water to flow into the cold radiator and the cold or cooler fluid in radiator is then drawn into the motor to remove heat. since the coolant is now below 197 the thermostat closes and the hot coolant looses heat in radiator (the sitting time as some have mentioned it) and the coolant in engine once again raises the temp till thermostat opens again. this happens many times per minute. so switching to a 180 will open sooner (in theory) causing this sitting time to become less. combine this with a some what innefficient radiator and the heat becoming picked up can no longer be transfered to the air and it keeps climbing and climbing well past the 220 when the fan comes on. and i think (not 100 percent sure) but most cars the fan is not allowed to turn on over a set MPH because it turns into a restriction to the "ram air" through the radiator. ours may be different but its basic theroy.

i think more the 180 t stat will quickly point out a cooling defficiency that a person may or not know they have as in my car. it runs just fine with 195 t-stat but 180 will start to over heat, same brand ect.

Thermostats don't cycle open to closed several times a minute...they gradually start opening at a certian temp, then are supposed to be fully opened by the temp rating (180 in this discussion), and will slowly start closing when engine outlet temps drop about 10-15 degrees. Again the movement is pretty slow and once the thermostat opens, it never fully closes until shutting the motor off. It will usually stay between half open and full open.

I think the reason many people experince higher temps after installing a colder T-stat is because they did not properly purge the air from the system. Hot air around the thermostat will not cause it to open, it has to be imeresed in liquid to work. Adding a vent hole to the top face of the t-stat helps a lot to purge the air.

Another thing worthy of mention...I recently tested three 180 thermostats by placing them in a pan of water on the stove and used a meat thermometer to measure the opening and closing temps. They all opened and closed at differnt temps and at differnt rates, with temps varying more than 20 degrees. The only way to know, is to test the thermostat before installing it.

David
 
why are mr. gaskets race only , is it because more flow. dose any body know why, are these safe to run all year round?
 
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