brake problem

birdlessmuz

Registered User
so i thought my problem was the ignition module which was bad but my brakes still dont work and the idiot lights are on for the brakes. where should i start looking for problems? i am going to take off the wheels and check the calipers for movement and the pins and probroly flush the fluid since it is black.but if thats not it then what is it i realy want to get this fixed and be driving my sc.SO PLEASE HELP
 
We need some more info. there are a lot of ways brake "don't work"... What is your specific problem? the brake pedal goes to the floor? the brake pedal is REALLY stiff? Brake pedal feels fine you just take a long time to come to a stop? If the pedal is crazy stiff and you have almost NO brakes at all and the lights are on... ABS pump/motor most likely, that is what mine was, switched the motors (2-3 hours start to finish) and she is all good now...

this was my problem:
It's an '89 for starters... Basically the problem is that I REALLY have to push on the brakes insanely hard ot get them to do anything and even then they barely work at all. The pedal only moves about 1"-2" no matter how hard I push. It doesn't even feel like you are pushing a brake pedal, I would compare it more to feeling like you are pushing your feet against a solid chunk of cement just trying to get it to budge...

this was the first bit of trouble shooting advice I got:
it almost sounds like the electric assist pump is not active. try turning the key on, wait a few minutes and then push down on the brake. you should hear the pump run for the brakes. If not than your pump is most likely bad and will need replaced
You can also test it by unplugging the connector and supplying 12v to a couple pins, I don't want to say which because I do not remember 100% but I THINK it was any to diagonal from each other, doesn't matter which gets - or + of the supplied power....

This was my fix: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=27&partnum=ABS550039&a=FR27-ABS550039


Well, I actually got an entire used ABS system from a parts car for like $75 but, that pump is all that was needed. Your local junkyard would probably have one if they have any thunderbirds/cougars. Or there is a guy on here that sells rebuilt ones. "the-big-e" I think is his name, AWESOME guy!! he actually talked to me on the phone for a good 20-30 minutes explaining how to test mine and how to go about changing it, what to remove first to make the job easier etc... REALLY helpful and REALLY nice!
 
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Thanks for for the free plug......:p

It sounds to me like your ABS motor isn't operating properly.....

There are a few things that can cause this problem: bad ABS pump motor relay, bad pressure switch, bad ABS pump motor.....

Do a search for posts done in my name and you will find some extensive procedures for trouble-shooting your ABS system.....
 
the pedal feels alright not hard but not soft if i move the car it takes ebrake assisstance to stop.the car sat for a while and there is rust on the rotors so i know that doesnt help. when i turn the key on i hear a motor run i just thought it was the fuel pump.would the abs sound the same or simular? where is the abs pump under the hood? so i can try to see if i can hear it? is there any fuses or relays i should check?i want to eliminate the obviose before i dig deeper.so i will try the advice you have given me and try to explain better and thanks for the help
 
the pedal feels alright not hard but not soft if i move the car it takes ebrake assisstance to stop.the car sat for a while and there is rust on the rotors so i know that doesnt help. when i turn the key on i hear a motor run i just thought it was the fuel pump.would the abs sound the same or simular? where is the abs pump under the hood? so i can try to see if i can hear it? is there any fuses or relays i should check?i want to eliminate the obviose before i dig deeper.so i will try the advice you have given me and try to explain better and thanks for the help

there are fuses/relays, I am not 100% sure on their location though I would guess there is a panel near the battery under the hood...

as for the motor. as I posted above, let it sit for a while then hit the brakes and see if you can hear a motor. The motor you hear when you turn the key on is probably the fuel pump. turn the key on, LEAVE IT ON, walk away from it for at least 5 minutes then push the brake pedal and see if you can hear something. The motor is located bottom left of the ABS unit, not very easy to see but you should be able to tell if a sound is coming from the front of the car (ABS pump) or the rear of the car (fuel pump)... however by leaving the key ON that whole time the fuel pump should not make any noise anyways after the initial prime.
 
There is a brown ABS relay between the PS fender well and firewall near the hood strut....

It is the only brown one there and should have an ABS sticker on it....:p

First thing I would do is press brake pedal 5 - 10 times with ignition off, this will dissipate any pressure in your accumulator ball (the black thingy next to the brake fluid reservoir).....

Now turn your ignition to run, but do not start....

Listen for a humming coming from under the accumulator (the ABS pump motor is located just under the accumulator).....

Does it run for about 15 - 20 seconds then shuts off (normal), does it run a few seconds then shuts off (bad pressure switch), or does it run constantly (bad pressure switch and/or bad accumulator).....

I'll bet is the pump motor isn't running.....:mad:

If the motor isn't running, unplug the electrical connection to the motor and and apply direct current to the motor (grey / red wire is positive and grey wire is negative) all you want to do is verify if the pump motor will run....
 
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ok itried what you guys said,first thing that happened is my pedal is now hard as a rock. two there is no humming from abs motor(pump). second the relay should be in the fuse box behind the battery correct because i do not see any brown abs relay is it missing or wrong place?(please tell me its that simple).so if the pedal went from ok to rock hard what does that mean? the fluid level is fine but fluid looks like coffee its that dark could that be a sign of the problem?:confused:
 
You could use a good brake fluid flush as that is probably the original brake fluid you are looking at....

The relay is probably still on the relay tree on the firewall, it is not located in the main power distribution box next to the battery.....

Sometimes you have to dig through all the wiring to find it, but it is there....

There will be two grey relays that look just like the ABS relay located in the same place.....

After you find the ABS relay, you can test it with a 9V battery to see if it is working.....

I still think you have a bad ABS pump motor, but we will find out in due time....

When these cars sit for long periods of times, this type of problem usually happens.....:rolleyes:

A stupid question, but one I've gotta ask......

Since you have owned it, have the brakes ever worked on this SC.....:confused:
 
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no brakes never worked one of the reasons i got it so cheap. ok i got to the relay and im going to test it now,fingers crossed
 
ok right next to the fluid resevior is a connector looks like two pronges hasnt been connected for awhile where does it go?
 
ok disregard that last post its the hood light.okay so between the clutch res. and brake res. is a groupof 4 grey wires 2 have red strip so i conected battery to terminals and nothing happened.does this mean i have a bad pump?
 
ok disregard that last post its the hood light.okay so between the clutch res. and brake res. is a groupof 4 grey wires 2 have red strip so i conected battery to terminals and nothing happened.does this mean i have a bad pump?

If you put 12v through the pump and nothing happened, then yes, you have a bad motor. When I tested mine I was worried that may be I just wasn't hearing it or something but when I got the good one and put power to it, you can hear it loud and clear. When I was searching on here for answers to my brake problem, I bet a good 80% of the problems where due to this motor...
 
Sounds like he also needs to have fluid flushed real good, and service the actual brakes at the wheels...
 
:confused:ok so when i get my pump what do i need to remove? where do i start? any tips? all i know is there is alot of stuff in that small area and i do not want to ruin anything. should i try to take whole set up out or can i just take the pump off and replace?:confused:
 
I find it best to remove the entire unit to service the pump motor....

It really isn't as hard as it looks (you don't have to remove the upper IC tube)....

Just be sure you have the correct size wrenches for the brake lines (the fittings like to round off).....:mad:

A 13mm deep well socket with a universal joint and a 12" extension will get that last interior bolt located at the top of the unit....

You might want to remove the front seat to make getting to the four bolts that hold the unit to the firewall easier....;)

Be careful that you don't knock the cruise control brake pedal switch out of adjustment....:rolleyes:
 
how much should a abs relay cost? i went to pep boys today and wow is all a i can say,so i take the relay into the store in hopes that they would be able to give me a borg-warner replacement.so i give the manager the part and right off the bat the guy cant read the numbers on the side so i read them to him,then he doeasnt know how to use his computer:confused:,so here i am typing from the other side of the counter and after a half hour of trying to find the part they (having another employee helping at this point)t isnt avalable so i decided to go to ford where after 20 minutes say they can order one for $58. does this sound right? is there some where else i can buy one of these?
 
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