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rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Been thinking about replacing the stock fuel filter with a billet reusable filter. The stock filter is 3" OAL at the filter area. These are for -6 size filter I/O.

This filter should fit, 3" OAL x 1.25" Dia., 40 micron filter, what micron is needed?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-650133/

Then use these fittings to adapt to the stock line, not sure what size it is yet
5/16 - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640930/
3/8 - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640940/

Then join them with these couplers
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220641B/

Just an idea instead of replacing the stock filter, let me know if I'm off the wall on this one.;)

bowez
04-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Just get rid of the not-quick connect stock connector and just just AN fittings.

rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 02:14 PM
Just get rid of the not-quick connect stock connector and just just AN fittings.

How do you propose that using the stock plastic lines?

Kurt K
04-09-2010, 02:14 PM
This is the one I'm using mounted in the stock location. I wrapped the filter in neoprene gasket material since it is slightly bigger than the stock filter and it is held in-place just like the stock filter. Mine currently has -6 AN connectors, but I will be changing them out to -8 AN connectors. I don't see those AN options listed on their website though anymore.

http://www.sx-performance.com/Fuel_Filters.htm

Shouldn't you be upgrading your fuel lines too?

rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 02:28 PM
I'm still up in the air about line upgrade. Seems stock lines are -6 and work fine for quite a few people. Been looking into a BAP also, not sure if I'll need the dual pumper setup

Would an -8AN compression fitting adapter work safely on the pump hat outlet? Then that leaves the return stock, or does that need to go larger also?

Found these fittings also that should go right onto the pump hat if I use -6 line.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640860/

rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 03:13 PM
Another question is how many GPH are needed for the filter? The one I posted flows 130GPH.

Answered my own question 130GPH converts to 492LPH, and a 255LPH pump converts to 67GPH

David Neibert
04-09-2010, 04:08 PM
Another question is how many GPH are needed for the filter? The one I posted flows 130GPH.

Answered my own question 130GPH converts to 492LPH, and a 255LPH pump converts to 67GPH

Ryan,

That filter looks perfect for the dual pump system that several of us are planning to install this year.

David

rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 04:16 PM
Ryan,

That filter looks perfect for the dual pump system that several of us are planning to install this year.

David

What size feed line are you guys going too?

They have the same filter but in a -8 version. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-650103/

David Neibert
04-09-2010, 04:34 PM
What size feed line are you guys going too?

They have the same filter but in a -8 version. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-650103/

Most likely dual 6AN supply lines and a single 6AN return line. When we did that on my turbo car I bought some generic high pressure fuel filters and cut the hose barb nipples off and added compression fittings and 6AN adaptors to each end. It was a real pain and it looked kinda rigged up.

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/dualpumps.jpg

David

rzimmerl
04-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Looks like the stock filter is 5/16 on both ends. I am going to order this setup and see how it works out. Worth a shot when a stock filter is now $15.

I'll update the post when I fit it up next week.

Ran across this deal in Jegs, buy the filter get spare element free. Its only 2-5/16 OAL also, same delivery specs as the Russell
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15030/10002/-1

bowez
04-09-2010, 10:28 PM
I assumed but it in the stock location and totally remove the stock flexible lines and put in your own. I HATE those not-quick connector.

XR7 Dave
04-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Those are 40 micron filters. I believe that 10 micron is recommended for fuel injection. But with 80lb injectors maybe it doesn't even matter. :eek:

"I do not have a narrow uritee. I could pass the child myself if I had to!"

rzimmerl
04-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Russell only goes down to a 40 micron filter, so do we really need the 10 micron?

I don't have 80's, only 60's so I won't be able to pass large kidney stones, more less a child...:p

XR7 Dave
04-10-2010, 08:43 AM
About fuel filters. (http://seagrant.uaf.edu/bookstore/boatkeeper/fuel-filters.pdf)

It says in there that 10 microns is the standard for automotive fuel injected gasoline engines. I've read that elsewhere also and Aeromotive sells a 10 micron filter but it's nearly $100 by the time you buy the necessary adapters, etc. 40 microns is for carburetors.

I think the reason that a 10 micron filter is so expensive is that the steel mesh necessary to achieve that filtration is expensive and takes up a lot of space to allow the necessary flow. A paper element is cheap and easier, but that wouldn't be cool in a 1000HP fuel system. The other (and probably main) reason that a steel mesh must be used in the Aeromotive filter is that it is also used for alcohol systems where the presence of water is common and water is death to a paper filter.

rzimmerl
04-10-2010, 10:31 AM
The Russell and the Jegs filters I posted both have stainless mesh for the filter element.

Here is an Aeromotive unit that filters to 10 micron, but it uses a paper filter not steel.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-12301/

Here is another that is 10 micron with steel mesh, but pricey
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-12333/

I can see the need for a diesel engine needing the fine filter to remove the particles so that it does not damage the injection pump. Hence why diesels have more then one and large fuel filters.

I was at my buddies shop last week and they use 100 micron on their Supra's. They currently have run 7.80s in one of their cars. At their last race they had a guy that they believe clog the 10 micron filter and that caused the engine to go.

rzimmerl
04-11-2010, 01:57 PM
Decided to scratch this idea. Dug thru my old issues of Chargin Thunder and found the article from Brian Oatway on the -8 feed and -6 return setup. I can't seem to find one of the fittings the -8 to 3/8" compression fitting, everything -8 is 1/2" I can find.

XR7 Dave
04-11-2010, 06:56 PM
The Russell and the Jegs filters I posted both have stainless mesh for the filter element.

Here is an Aeromotive unit that filters to 10 micron, but it uses a paper filter not steel.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-12301/

Here is another that is 10 micron with steel mesh, but pricey
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-12333/

I can see the need for a diesel engine needing the fine filter to remove the particles so that it does not damage the injection pump. Hence why diesels have more then one and large fuel filters.

I was at my buddies shop last week and they use 100 micron on their Supra's. They currently have run 7.80s in one of their cars. At their last race they had a guy that they believe clog the 10 micron filter and that caused the engine to go.

I'm sure people have run 5's with no filter at all, but that really isn't the point. They are also probably running 160lb/hr injectors.

It's kind of like racing oil filters. They don't filter as much as a street filter but they claim "high performance". The reason they are high performance is that they offer less restriction to flow than a standard street filter. They don't filter very well either.

So the point is not that you can't use a 40 micron filter, but just that automotive industry standard is 10 microns. If you consider the size of the orifice's found in a carburetor, a 100 micron particle wouldn't clog them, but how big of a particle would be needed to clog a fuel injector? I don't claim to know the answer to this but instead I was relying on the industry standard. If someone can demonstrate the a 40 micron particle will pass through a fuel injector then there is nothing to worry about.

bowez
04-11-2010, 11:12 PM
My thought would be to run both the Russell 40 micron and the Aeromotive 10 micron in series and have the Russell with it cheaper filter doing the majority of the work.

rzimmerl
04-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Ran across this and thought I'd share.

Canton Racing CM filter drop in replacement, 1 micron filtration
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=25-910

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-25-910/

XR7 Dave
04-14-2010, 09:11 PM
Those are nice because you can run either the stock style fittings or AN, but they cost about the same as the Aeromotive.

David Neibert
04-15-2010, 12:27 PM
I think a pair of these 5 micron Accel high pressure filters and 6an fittings will work well for the dual pump fuel system.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-74720/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-74721/

David

Mike8675309
04-15-2010, 01:57 PM
Decided to scratch this idea. Dug thru my old issues of Chargin Thunder and found the article from Brian Oatway on the -8 feed and -6 return setup. I can't seem to find one of the fittings the -8 to 3/8" compression fitting, everything -8 is 1/2" I can find.

See if you can find a fluid power shop. Look for Aeroquip Versil Flare fittings. They terminate in a female JIC37degree flare perfect for connecting up AN lines and are rated for connection to steel lines.
http://carcraft.automotive.com/65238/ccrp-0708-restoration-tips-from-the-pros/photos25-0.html

rzimmerl
04-15-2010, 02:10 PM
I found the Versil Flare fittings, but they still only offer a -6 AN on a 3/8" compression tube size.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=624,600,587_3411&action=product

Found these in McMaster Carr, they are basically the same and fit the requirements needed. They have compression on one end then either a male/female 1/2" NPT on the other. Which would take a NPT to AN adapter. PN 5929K24 and PN 5929K54

http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-tube-fittings/=6o9gd5

The fitting Brian used was from Ron Morris Performance PN #9155, but they no longer list it on their website. I may try to call them today to see if its still availble.

David Neibert
04-15-2010, 02:20 PM
I found the Versil Flare fittings, but they still only offer a -6 AN on a 3/8" compression tube size.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=624,600,587_3411&action=product

Found these in McMaster Carr, they are basically the same and fit the requirements needed. They have compression on one end then either a male/female 1/2" NPT on the other. Which would take a NPT to AN adapter.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-tube-fittings/=6o9gd5

The fitting Brian used was from Ron Morris Performance PN #9155, but they no longer list it on their website. I may try to call them today to see if its still availble.

Ryan,

If doing dual pumps, you are going to need to exit the fuel pump top plate with two 6AN fittings because there isn't space inside the tank to Y them together into a single 8AN connection.

I didn't think it was going to be a very clean install with a dual 6AN Y'd to a single 8AN back near the tank and then again at the fuel rail, so I'm planning to use dual 6AN supply lines and a single 6AN return line like we did on my 93 SC.

David

rzimmerl
04-15-2010, 02:36 PM
David,

If I was going with the dual pump setup, I would do the dual -6 as you stated. After talking with the other David, he believes that I won't need the dual pump setup, unless I either run more OD (3" with 10% JS, running stock JS at the moment) or go bigger later. At this point I am investigating the best method to feed the car off the single pump with the least amount of restrictions and the best flow.

Mike8675309
04-15-2010, 03:38 PM
One final comment. If not for the work done on my fuel rail, I wouldn't have thought of it, but if you want, you could take that hat over to a shop where someone has a tig welder. They take a pipe, and sleeve the stock outlet, welding the sleeve on. Then weld to the sleeve a JIC 37 male fitting.

I found the thread where I talked about this a little:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106936&highlight=fuel+rail

A recommendation there other than tig welding, was silver solder. If the guy who did my rail had any, I think he would have preferred it. While the rail is pretty thick it still is tough to weld to.

-6 is plenty big for fuel supply. The fuel rail is only 3/8" and it's thick wall, so the ID is smaller than that. If I could source it, and the tank hat tube is nice and round, I wouldn't hesitate to give the -6 x 3/8 Versil-flare a shot. The design is better than a standard compression fitting.
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_2009_work/4a946fed65083/tn_full_passengersidefuelrailjpg_Thumbnail1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/446554)

Note, I'm running stock fuel lines yet on my car. We'll see how it does later this year but initially.

XR7 Dave
04-15-2010, 05:23 PM
On most of the tank hats the stock lines are soldered, not welded, so welding isn't a good option back there. Soldering may or may not be fun either because if you loosen the stock solder then you'll have to redo that to make it seal. The solder seal is what causes the stock ones to leak gas all the time and the whole design sucks. Some of the later ones are welded stainless which is 100% stronger but then again, you'd have to use a stainless fitting if you wanted to weld it.

IOW, the whole thing is a ~~~~.

rzimmerl
04-16-2010, 07:30 AM
Dave,

Have you tried TIG welding the tubes to the hat itself? The 2 I have here are also soldered together, one of them is from a 96 LX tank.

CMac89
04-16-2010, 12:36 PM
I run a stainless steel filter, on my car. The fittings are built into the end caps, so you don't need to buy those separately. $87 and 12" long (a larger area of filtering is a good thing.) It's available in -8 AN male ends or -10 AN male ends.

The stainless steel element flows more, which is a good benefit to the guys using Walbros, and you don't need to filter atoms out of gasoline. The stainless steel elements are specified for methanol, which has less molarity to begin with. I shouldn't say the paper filter isn't necessary, because it does filter very well. I just see it as pissing in the ocean to watch the level rise. Plllluuuussss, you can take this apart, go to your sink, and wash the element out, then put the filter back together. ;) You have to completely replace paper elements.

Just throwing my dime and a nickel in!

This one to be exact:

http://www.barrygrant.com/images/bgfuel/catalog/52_r1_c5.jpg