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Supercouped
04-16-2010, 07:45 PM
this is the post, its in the newb forums section. but no one seems to be looking at it, and i need this figured out asap!

http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?p=877903#post877903

Thanks ahead of time,

Nate

evil1
04-16-2010, 08:01 PM
Needs Head Gaskets! Get MLS. Gaskets from Fel Pro They are the best. You will most likely need to have the head decks milled. You will also need new head bolts, they can only be used once. Search the forms on Head Gaskets and head studs, the best way to go!

Supercouped
04-16-2010, 08:15 PM
thats what i was figuring. thanks so much. could that be the reason its getting so hot? or no? i know the white smoke was the head gaskets witch are $83.99 for the full set for the top half of the engine. also the head studs are going to be 16.99 for ONE side. and i figure ill need a fuel pump also and thats $101 and some change. $216 all together. thanks so much again. if you know anything else that could help let me know

Nate

evil1
04-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Our cars are noted for blowing head gaskets, nine times out ten it's because the cooling fan fails and or the temp sensor/ gage gives a false reading. The temp sensor goes bad and reads fine but all the wile the engine is cooking. These cars run hot as it its, you need to get a 180 Tstat, I use one from a early model ford 302 mustang engine. The stock Tstat is a 195 way to hot for me. There are two temp sensors on the engine, the one on the Tstat housing is for the gage the other one that is on the #1 cyl bank on top of the intake is for the fan control. Thats the one that goes bad! The fan has two speeds, high speed runs when the A/C is running low runs at normal driving and shuts off above 45 MPH. You said that you are going to change the fuel pump, do you mean the the water pump? It would be wise to do so that way you know it's good, get a good one though better to spend good money once then bad money twice. Make sure that the rad is good no leaks and that is flowing and not full of junk. I would go with the studs and MLS head gaskets by Fel Pro they are more money but they are the best! the stock replacement gaskets are OK but they will fail over time if you plan on doing any mods to the engine. The head studs are much stronger then the stock bolts and last forever, you will never have to change them also they have a higher torque value then stock bolts. My car has a Coy Miller stage 2 engine 396 RWHP 488 ft lbs torque, 14 lbs of boost,(it brakes parts!) MLS head gaskets lasted six years before they went, do the research on the MLS gaskets and head studs before you dive in. These cars are not easy to work on and not to many people will even touch them, I restored my car from the ground up it took three years, truck loads of money and two years of research before I even opened the hood. Once you learn how to work on these things there not so bad, all the info you need is on this site, use the search tab for the gaskets and the studs you won't be sorry. Like I said better to spend good money once then bad money twice.

Supercouped
04-17-2010, 01:19 PM
yea, when i took out my tstat i drove it 5 min away to get beer, ended up whistling out of were the tstat goes. i was lazzy and didnt put a diff gasket in for that. just kinda hard to afford all this when i just got laid off and i have to pay rent.. but thanks so much im just going to get it out to my moms bf's garage and start ripping it appart. is there anything i should know before i start taking it apart. or is it ok to just take it apart. there is like a "how to change head gaskets" on this board right? anyone willing to let me call them if i have any questions? lol

evil1
04-17-2010, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't RIP anything apart until you have the money and parts you need to do the job. It is not good to take them apart and leave torn down for a long time. You will have to take the heads in to a machine shop to have them checked and resurfaced, that will be around a $100.00 or so. you will need to find out. You should also get a Ford shop manual, not one that you buy at the auto parts store you need the REAL DEAL! It will save you a world of hurt! look for one in the for sale post's or place a add in the wanted post's. If you have never had one of these cars apart then you need to find someone where you live that is knowledgeable, these cars are not easy for a novice. If you have never done head gaskets on another car I strongly advise that you seek help! You can write me at supercoupe38@hotmail.com Mark

Supercouped
04-17-2010, 07:29 PM
i ordered the set of gaskets today, also ordered the head studs. how big of a deal is it if i don't take the heads in? what do they do to the heads in detail? would i be able to do it? i most likely will i'm just wondering. Ive got the car taken apart for the most part. just gotta get the headers off and the valve covers. got everything else out of the way. this isn't as hard as it seemed, but it is still a pain in the A#%. the bracket for the power steering took us a wile just cuz we couldn't find the bolts right away. but that's all good now and out of the way. thanks for all your help. ill let you know about any more progress i get too.

Pic:
http://i40.tinypic.com/5xk7cx.jpg

EATONBIRD
04-17-2010, 11:16 PM
Remember that the stock head bolts are torque to strech, and on top of it all you have to angle torque them as well. I am not sure how the torque is when you stud the heads but that is one thing to keep in mind.

The more you know or learn before youstart, the better off you are. These cars are complex and not cheap, But you gotta pay to play.

Best of luck bud.

evil1
04-18-2010, 09:45 AM
The heads must go to a machine shop, unless you want to do it all over, like right after you drive it around the block!!! The Machine Shop will Pressure Check them for leaks or any cracks from overheating then they check the decks/ mating surfaces to see if they are warped, witch they most likely are! Otherwise you wouldn't be doing this in the first place. The heads are placed on a Milling machine and the decks are cut flat so that new gasket has a perfect seal!

hillsideshortle
04-18-2010, 11:50 AM
This sure is a nice site and you guys are very good for helping with the right advice for some one getting into it for the first time. Alto this one isnt for me I thank you all for helping as you do. Very nice!!

Mike8675309
04-18-2010, 12:20 PM
I guess I didn't see any indication of head gaskets. Certainly it doesn't hurt to do them, but you could still have overheating issues when you are done.

Since you are digging into it, I recommend also replacing the water pump, unless you are sure it was already done in the last 40,000 miles. It would suck to get it all done and a month later it starts weeping out the weep hole.

At idle, or cruising around under 40mph, if the cooling fan doesn't come on, engine temps will get really hot. The radiator is not big enough to get rid of all that heat without a fan at under 40mph speeds.

Forcing the fan to run all the time can lead to failure of the fan motor.

Just make sure you take it easy and be methodical in how you approach the issues on your car.

Supercouped
04-18-2010, 01:47 PM
At idle, or cruising around under 40mph, if the cooling fan doesn't come on, engine temps will get really hot. The radiator is not big enough to get rid of all that heat without a fan at under 40mph speeds.
Forcing the fan to run all the time can lead to failure of the fan motor.


the fan runs on the high speed all the time. ive changed everything else cept the water pump and the radiator. so if i have overheating problems its one of those. but yea i guess ill have to send the heads in..

thanks guys
nate

EATONBIRD
04-18-2010, 06:35 PM
Maybe the shop might have a set done (mine did). I paid $400 for remans with new guides, seal,s and a complete valve job, (Like new). All heads from 89-95 are the same to the best of my nolege.

By the way, what is the torques and process on studs for the heads?

evil1
04-19-2010, 07:02 AM
The head bolts torque @ 60 ftlbs if I remember right. The studs torque @ 80 ftlbs. search the forums to be sure, you will also find the sequence. Note these are final torque values.

the-big-e
04-19-2010, 10:35 AM
I would highly recommend replacing the radiator or at least take it to a competent radiator shop and have them look at it.....

Rust in the overflow tank is not a good sign.....:eek:

Supercouped
04-19-2010, 12:35 PM
ill be asking more questions as i get further. but for now, is there anything i need to know abou taking the valves out? i dont leave them in right? lol just sucks cuz my moms bf works in indiana now at gm so hes only here on the weekends. so its just me working on it during the day. and i really dont wanna mess anything up, hence the reason im asking so many questions. :p:p:p

Pic:
http://i41.tinypic.com/rkn7zs.jpg

Motohead
04-19-2010, 12:49 PM
I would highly recommend replacing the radiator or at least take it to a competent radiator shop and have them look at it.....

Rust in the overflow tank is not a good sign.....:eek:

totally agree If the rad is partially clogged (Which im sure it is if your seeing rust in the tank) you will still have overheating issues which will lead to re-warping the heads again. After my first headgasket change I still had high temps a new rad fixed it.

EATONBIRD
04-19-2010, 02:09 PM
The head bolts torque @ 60 ftlbs if I remember right. The studs torque @ 80 ftlbs. search the forums to be sure, you will also find the sequence. Note these are final torque values.

The head bolts are also angle torqued too! Thats what I am talking about. What is the prosedure in torqing done the heads when using studs?

Mike8675309
04-19-2010, 02:14 PM
when removing the rockers and the push rods and you need to keep them marked for their location so you can put them back in the same spot. Same goes for the valves, retainers.

Supercouped
04-19-2010, 02:21 PM
I called the place that would be doing my heads. they said i could just leave my valves and springs in the heads and just give it to them.got the valve covers off, so now how do i get the heads off? seeing as you guys are talking about angle torquing them.. what are the actual specs so i don't mess the bolts up? i just take them off with a socket wrench then torqe them when i put them back on is what your saying?

:confused::confused::confused:

David Neibert
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
I called the place that would be doing my heads. they said i could just leave my valves and springs in the heads and just give it to them.got the valve covers off, so now how do i get the heads off? seeing as you guys are talking about angle torquing them.. what are the actual specs so i don't mess the bolts up? i just take them off with a socket wrench then torqe them when i put them back on is what your saying?

:confused::confused::confused:

To remove the heads you just unbolt them (counter clockwise) using a 1/2" breaker bar and a socket. Strongly suggest you purchase a Haynes repair manual for about $15 at Autozone. It will contain almost all the info you need to put it back together correctly. When taking it apart, keep track of what rocker arm and pushrod were on each cylinder.

David

Supercouped
04-19-2010, 03:04 PM
When taking it apart, keep track of what rocker arm and pushrod were on each cylinder.

David

im just going to leave them in. and take them to the shop. id rather someone that knows how to take them out and put them back in do it. im writing down everything im taking off in order and keeping bolts/nuts with the part they came off of. if all else fails ill buy a book :p

S_Mazza
04-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Well, you have to at least loosen the rocker arms to take the heads off, since the upper row of head bolts is blocked by the rockers. It's really easy. Just get 12 large Ziploc freezer bags and label them in a logical fashion. As you unbolt each rocker, plop it in the bag with the pushrod. And mark the head to match the mark on the bag, or write it down somewhere.

The valves and springs, you do not have to remove. Those will stay in place until the machine shop starts work.

Supercouped
04-19-2010, 05:54 PM
EDIT: since i didnt take off the supercharger. i didnt notice the bolts under it that are holding on to the heads.

Main question right now. how do i get the throttle cable and other parts in back off of the part of the super charger?

how do i go by getting the fuel injectors out?

when i was taking off my headers. i noticed tranny fluid on the bottem of the tranny pan and under my oil pan also..

Pic:
http://i44.tinypic.com/mltwdt.jpg

90turbo1
04-19-2010, 06:10 PM
AGREED WITH GETTING RADIATOR REPLACED.

RUST IN OVER FLOW TANK WILL ONLY COME FROM ONE PLACE. THE RADIATOR.

I would replace radiator first.
then water pump and t-stat.
while water pump is off flush out the block very very good and check all coolant hoses for softness and swelling.. if they dont look right change them at once.

drive the vehicle with new cooling system and see what it does. I recomend staying within walking distance of house incase something happens.

but on a flip side if the orginal gaskets have not failed yet they will. expecially since you over heated (if you did is to be determined, or the guage was lying to you).

you best route is the MLS gaskets, have the heads milled and valves done. pressure tested.
new water pump
new t-stat
new hoses on all of engine
flush heater core
reseal complete top of motor
while supercharger is off inspect and replace coupling inside it.
have manifolds milled flat also (same shop as head shop should do this for you)

there will be countless other things that you are going to find while removing the heads... like

motor mounts (this is perfect time to replace them)
oil leaks (front cover and oil pan)


dont get discouraged.... when dissasembling engine keep it organized place bolts from one component in small zip lock bags and write on them with marker as to where they belong.

take pictures of each part before you remove it (that is what I wish I did) you will find that if this project takes longer than say a month you will quickly forget where parts go and where brackets go.

keep it clean.....

hope you have fun

the-big-e
04-19-2010, 07:23 PM
You might want to flush out your heater core, as well....

I am sure that it will have some rust build up in it....:eek:

90turbo1
04-20-2010, 02:08 AM
you will need to remove the super charger from the vehicle.

then remove the intake manifold from the engine, then you can get the heads off. you really dont need to touch the valves. let the shop that is going to resurface the heads do that.

you also need to remove the exhaust manifolds from each head.


there is no other way to correctly remove the heads.

EATONBIRD
04-20-2010, 08:48 AM
Yes, dont be dicouraged. I found doing my gaskets to be kinda fun. I learned alot about my new bird. Remember what you couldn't see, but can now? keep that in mind when your all the way tore down, (i assume the short block is going to stay in the car). If its ?anble, then replace it. If you need to take your time to aquire needed parts then do so. You wont regret taking a lil longer. Most of the bolts are 8mm through 15mm. When you get it apart clean out your intercooler plumbing and intercooler itself. then clean it all with brake cleaner. Its alot of prep work. Make sure you go to GM dealer and pick up a bottle of supercharger lube, Its like 15 bucks, and like 8.8 ounces. Its a good time to cange the blower lube. Also change your radiator cap, cheap and doesnt hurt. Inspect all vaccum lines now, while you can see them all. MOST IMPORTANTLY, HAVE FUN. Thats what these cars are about.

S_Mazza
04-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Main question right now. how do i get the throttle cable and other parts in back off of the part of the super charger?

how do i go by getting the fuel injectors out?

Okay,

For the throttle body, I think you just pop the throttle and cruise control cable out of the throttle lever. Then you disconnect the coolant hose (if present). If you can't disconnect it, just cut it. You can fix it or bypass it later. Then you need to pull the PCV valve out of the valve cover and pull one little soft vacuum line off the PCV line (I think it comes from the charcoal canister). Also, you need to remove the small hose that connects the intake and return plenums ("crosstalk" hose). Then there is another large vacuum line that goes from the intake plenum to the vacuum tree (maybe?). Once you have all that removed, and the 3 supercharger bolts removed, you need to loosen the hose clamps on the bypass hose that connects the intake and return plenum. You may need to spray some kind of lube around the ends of the bypass hose and twist it to break it loose before you try to remove the blower and throttle body. It can really be glued on there. Also, if you have EGR, you will have to mess with that.

Anyway, once all that is removed, you should be able to tilt the entire blower - plenum - throttle assembly up, separate it from the bypass hose, and pull it out. If I missed any hoses, sorry!

As for the injectors ... you need to unbolt the 4 Torx head screws that hold the rail to the intake manifold. Then comes the "fun" part. You need to reach behind the engine with a 13mm wrench and undo a couple of nuts that hold the heater crossover tube to 2 studs. One connects to the block, low on the passenger side. One connects to the driver's side head. Once you remove the nuts, you need to slip the heater hose and its brackets off the studs. Next, you have to undo the stud itself from the driver's side head. (It's like a combination bolt/stud.) That fastener holds the fuel rail to the head. Once you have that removed, just pull up gently and wiggle to get the injectors out of the head.

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 11:45 AM
ok awsome i did pretty much what you said, i got the right side head off the block and noticed some pretty nasty stuff in one of the holes you'll have to look at the pictures i took to know what im trying to say. but it doesnt look to good to me.


This is the Right head that i took off:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2eb7syq.jpg

This is the nasty hole:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2qwevpc.jpg

this is the pistons that were under the head(were the head gasket is):

http://i43.tinypic.com/16c3rmb.jpg

This is what the left side looks like currently
(notice that nasty hole to the right):

http://i41.tinypic.com/29e3zq0.jpg

And this is the full look of the engine as of now:

http://i40.tinypic.com/a0b5nr.jpg

Now im just ready to pull the other head off and take it to the shop this weekend hopfully.

S_Mazza
04-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Wow, your cooling system is FULL of crud. I am not sure what that's from, but I'm sure it's not good! You had better get that block flushed out GOOD. I don't know what your money situation is, but I would be reluctant to leave that bottom end in place.

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 11:56 AM
Wow, your cooling system is FULL of crud. I am not sure what that's from, but I'm sure it's not good! You had better get that block flushed out GOOD. I don't know what your money situation is, but I would be reluctant to leave that bottom end in place.

Money situation, not good. cant really even afford to get the heads done. i knew this was F*&^ed up right when i saw it. ughh.. how do i go by flushing the block? isnt it bad to get water in the block or no? :mad::mad::mad:

So that was prolly the big majority of why it was overheating then......................

S_Mazza
04-20-2010, 01:02 PM
It's not bad to get water in the cooling sections of the block. I mean, the coolant is half water anyway. But it would be bad to let it sit with only water in there. So once you clean it, try not to let it sit for days and days before you reassemble. It would be bad to get water in the oiling sections of the block and into the crankcase.

I haven't had to do this myself, but here are some ideas:

You can probably start by duct-taping over the edges of the pistons and the oil drainback holes, and taping some kind of plastic over the valley between the heads. Then you might want to knock out the freeze plugs in the block (assuming you can access those areas to put new ones in later). Also consider removing the water pump. Then attack the crud with some stiff pipe cleaners, flushing with the hose as you go. You will need to clean out the 2 crossovers in the intake manifold. You should try to get all the heater hoses. (1 behind the block, 1 along the passenger side, 1 along the driver's side, 1 or 2 in front where the water pump and oil cooler are.) Clean out the thermostat housing too. Also spray out the heater core. Fortunately, the heads should be cleaned for you by the machine shop. Now, as for the radiator, you obviously won't be able to scrub out all the tubes. I guess you should just try to run a lot of water through it and see if you can get some of the crud out. You could try letting some vinegar sit in it for a while before flushing. Or I have heard of using some diluted CLR (like for plumbing). But in any case, flush it well with clean water afterward. You might also try using a cooling system flush product once you get the car back together, but I have not used one myself.

Oh, and since you were going to change the engine oil anyway during the HG job, just make sure you got any water out that might have snuck past your duct tape barriers. :)

Maybe someone else here has some better advice. These are just ideas.

the-big-e
04-20-2010, 01:08 PM
Looks like the PO used some kind of "Stop Leak" product.....

At this point, it really doesn't matter if you get water down in the oil pan.....

You are going to do an oil change, right....;)

If it were mine, I'd swap out the block just to be safe (I have 6 SC blocks in my shop)....:p

Drain the oil and leave the plug out, this will prevent water from building up in the oil pan....

Flush water back and forth through any and all coolant passages that you can get to (use a pressure washer).....

Scrape out as much crud as you can....

Enjoy yourself and have fun.....:o

By the way, your radiator and heater core are most definitely plugged up.....:(

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 01:13 PM
It's not bad to get water in the cooling sections of the block. I mean, the coolant is half water anyway. But it would be bad to let it sit with only water in there. So once you clean it, try not to let it sit for days and days before you reassemble. It would be bad to get water in the oiling sections of the block and into the crankcase.

I haven't had to do this myself, but here are some ideas:

You can probably start by duct-taping over the edges of the pistons and the oil drainback holes, and taping some kind of plastic over the valley between the heads. Then you might want to knock out the freeze plugs in the block (assuming you can access those areas to put new ones in later). Also consider removing the water pump. Then attack the crud with some stiff pipe cleaners, flushing with the hose as you go. You will need to clean out the 2 crossovers in the intake manifold. You should try to get all the heater hoses. (1 behind the block, 1 along the passenger side, 1 along the driver's side, 1 or 2 in front where the water pump and oil cooler are.) Clean out the thermostat housing too. Also spray out the heater core. Fortunately, the heads should be cleaned for you by the machine shop. Now, as for the radiator, you obviously won't be able to scrub out all the tubes. I guess you should just try to run a lot of water through it and see if you can get some of the crud out. You could try letting some vinegar sit in it for a while before flushing. Or I have heard of using some diluted CLR (like for plumbing). But in any case, flush it well with clean water afterward. You might also try using a cooling system flush product once you get the car back together, but I have not used one myself.

Oh, and since you were going to change the engine oil anyway during the HG job, just make sure you got any water out that might have snuck past your duct tape barriers. :)

Maybe someone else here has some better advice. These are just ideas.


yea i was going to try to keep the oil i had in it. seeing as how i just gave it a oil change 2 days before i started doing the hg's. dumb idea now.. i didnt really wanna pull the block out of the car, but that would be the best bet to get the crud out of the block im assuming right? could i use the CLR on the block? would it be bad to run the car after assembly with it? im trying to avoid all this extra work and more just keeps popping up. last owner must not have taking very good care of this car.. wish you guys lived in wisconsin lmao. well let me know the easiest way of doing this, like i said id rather not take the block out or the oil. but if i have to i will. :(:(:(

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 01:17 PM
If it were mine, I'd swap out the block just to be safe (I have 6 SC blocks in my shop)....:p


well only thing is i dont have extra blocks just layying around. nor the money to buy a new one. if i did i would totally put another one in and avoid having to clean this crap out. :(:(:(

baer198
04-20-2010, 01:21 PM
Looks like Ethylene Glycol (green) and Dexcool (orange) are not compatible lmao

S_Mazza
04-20-2010, 02:04 PM
yea i was going to try to keep the oil i had in it. seeing as how i just gave it a oil change 2 days before i started doing the hg's. dumb idea now.. i didnt really wanna pull the block out of the car, but that would be the best bet to get the crud out of the block im assuming right? could i use the CLR on the block? would it be bad to run the car after assembly with it? im trying to avoid all this extra work and more just keeps popping up. last owner must not have taking very good care of this car.. wish you guys lived in wisconsin lmao. well let me know the easiest way of doing this, like i said id rather not take the block out or the oil. but if i have to i will. :(:(:(

For the oil, that is a shame. But you might have some coolant in there already, so it's definitely a good idea to change it.

I guess you could use the CLR on the block as long as it stayed in the coolant liner and didn't get into the bearing and crankcase area. I don't know if it would affect the water pump bearings. I am not sure of all the ramifications, so I definitely would use caution. Like, start with a pretty diluted solution, and don't let it sit in there too long.

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 02:16 PM
so pull out the block or leave it in? if i put a hose in were that nasty coolant hole and turned it on would it stay in the coolant area? or since i have it kinda taken apart would it go into other places? cuz it looks like if i did that it would come out of the holes were the coolant goes thru the heads and no were else. and also cover up the valley between the heads. i'm trying to think of the easiest way to do this..

this makes me have no ambition to keep working on it lmao. but i love the car, and would rather drive it then look at it, witch Ive been doing since i got her. i havent even gotten both of the heads off and already running into more problems then i can handle..

S_Mazza
04-20-2010, 03:13 PM
so pull out the block or leave it in? if i put a hose in were that nasty coolant hole and turned it on would it stay in the coolant area? or since i have it kinda taken apart would it go into other places? cuz it looks like if i did that it would come out of the holes were the coolant goes thru the heads and no were else. and also cover up the valley between the heads. i'm trying to think of the easiest way to do this..

this makes me have no ambition to keep working on it lmao. but i love the car, and would rather drive it then look at it, witch Ive been doing since i got her. i havent even gotten both of the heads off and already running into more problems then i can handle..

Yeah, it should stay in the coolant area, but you have the coolant port at the other end of the head exposed, so it's going to want to shoot out of there and right into the lifter valley. So you will have to do something about that.

Hey, don't give up yet! You might be over the hump already. Getting down to the heads is the worst part (especially getting the exhaust off!).

EATONBIRD
04-20-2010, 03:15 PM
Put in the healing corner for the night....... It aint gonna get done before tomorrow. When you get pissed ~~~~ just gets broke. Like i said, I had to buy two new heads. ~~~~ happens.

BTW people put the damdest gunk in there radiator/oil and expect success!!!!:p

the-big-e
04-20-2010, 04:20 PM
I havent even gotten both of the heads off and already running into more problems then i can handle..

Sounds like a typical SC repair job......:p

No matter how hard you try to keep the water out of the inside of the block, some IS going to get inside it and you really should change the oil....

You won't have to change the filter for now.....

However, it's a good practice (after you finish this type of repair) to change the oil and filter after running the engine for a few minutes....

This way you are assured that you get all the extra water out of your engine....

Look at the bright side.....

At least you won't be needing your heater any time soon.....:D

Supercouped
04-20-2010, 04:33 PM
lmao, you guys are awesome! i got the valve cover, head and headers off the left side now. just had to finish that at least. now im gunna rest up. and try to figure out how im gunna pay for the heads to get done. for the coolant system, tomarrows another day and i wont be in such a mood as i am today. i know all the hard work is out of the way for now, so thats a little bit of weight off my back i guess lol. the coolant part is gunna be fun, i figure ill just tape off one side and most of the holes on the other side and try to figure out how to get alot of water pressure into one of those little a$$ holes lol and just tape a bucket or something over the lifter valley. its comming together at least. or should i say apart :p


thanks for all the help guys, i really appreciate it!!

:D:D:D

Supercouped
04-26-2010, 04:05 PM
so i just picked up my heads not even an hour ago. now for putting them back on i need some direction. with the fel pro gaskets they gave me only one tube of Black RTV silicone.. should it be put on a specific area? need to know what my first step to my last should be. got my head bolts, gaskets, and heads. just need to know how to do this right so i don't have to go thru this headache again..


also got some pretty wierd things that i deff dont know were go in the gasket set. there are 3 rubber rings(big) and like 5 or so little rings. 2 or 3 little plastic tubes with a closed end. what are these for?

:confused::cool::confused:

Nate

S_Mazza
04-26-2010, 07:30 PM
The black RTV is probably for the corners of the end seals at the front & back of the intake manifold. There will be a small triangular gap left at each end where block, head, and intake meet.

The 3 large rings are probably for the intercooler pipes. The small rings and the tubes, I don't know.

90turbo1
04-26-2010, 10:13 PM
correct the rtv is for the corners of the front and back gaskets that sit in the valley between the two cyl heads. there is some debate around here if those seals are necessary. some use just straight rtv all the way across and some use the gaskets and rvt in the corners. Just rember rtv is only as good as your cleaning job... if not clean it wont do squat..

the three o rings large ones are worthless. they are a ~~~~ to get to stay put while you bang the pipes around getting them together. I would recommend getting some teflon inter cooler seals (search on the site for them) mine work great.

when installing the valve cover gaskets make sure the metal sleves are in the holes for each bolt. mine came in a bag which I thought was strange.

when torquing the intake down do it in three steps. I dont rember the torque of the bolts but I cleaned mine very well and applied some thread sealant to the threads and installed them torquing them in thee steps evenly around the intake. since i had the motor on a stand I retorqued them a few days later and found very minimal torque required to get the spec again. after about the third day I checked them again and they were fine. (i understand that you dont wana wait three days but wait at liest an hour between torque settings so the gasket can "relax a bit" )

did you get the engine block nice and clean. I like to clean my motors with carb cleaner and then finally brake clean till I can whipe a paper towel accross them and nothing but brake cleaner comes up from them.

also the head studs will require you to clean the threads and make sure the bottoms of the holes are nice and clean. you can go get a thread chaser from harbor freight and that should last for one engine, or like others on here have found out that if you take a dye grinder and an old head bolt you can make a cheap and effective thread chaser. but the cleaner you get the holes the better the studs will seat into them and you will get more precise clamping force on the heads.

follow the head bolt torque sequence to the "t".

hope that helps you

Supercouped
04-27-2010, 08:29 AM
well i used the RTV silicone on most of the gaskets. (until i ran out :() so yea i got the heads on, but did not torque them. just tightened them up pretty good and put the lifter Vally cover on and tightened them down also. haven't gotten to far.

speedwagen
04-27-2010, 08:30 AM
Here is a link to teflon gaskets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-M90-SUPERCHARGER-GASKET-SET-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ef7f478e0QQitemZ27044 7966432QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

David Neibert
04-27-2010, 11:23 AM
well i used the RTV silicone on most of the gaskets. (until i ran out :() so yea i got the heads on, but did not torque them. just tightened them up pretty good and put the lifter Vally cover on and tightened them down also. haven't gotten to far.

You can't install/tighten the intake manifold until the heads are properly torqued.

BTW, When installing the head gaskets, there is a tab that says front..it very important to install both the gaskets with those tabs pointing towards the front of the motor. Doing this will require one gasket to be installed blue stripes facing down/ and the other side facing upward. When done correctly one gasket looks to be upside down, but that's how they have to be installed to work correctly.

Did you buy that repair manual yet ?

I'm asking because, so far you are doing pretty much everything wrong.

David

PS: Looking at the pics, I believe at least one of your old head gaskets was installed backwards.

Supercouped
04-27-2010, 11:29 AM
well i don't have a torque wrench or anything like that.. so i just figured i tighten them as good as i could.

i know i have the gaskets the right way. i did take a good look at them before i put them on.

i have not gotten the repair manual yet. dont really think ill need it after i get the heads on properly.


whats the torque ratio that i have to apply to the head bolts?

may i ask what ive done wrong? :p lol


:(:(:(

rzimmerl
04-27-2010, 11:32 AM
Without a torque wrench and proper sequence of tightening the heads, your asking for another failure. How did you run out of silicone, you use only 4 small daps in the corners when using all 4 pieces of the intake gasket?

Supercouped
04-27-2010, 11:34 AM
ok then ill just go get a torque wrench in a lil bit here. what is the sequence in tighting em and how tight? im just trying to get the stuff done.

also i was putting it around the gaskets not in little dots in the corners..

looks like ill have to get some of that also..

Mike8675309
04-27-2010, 12:02 PM
well i don't have a torque wrench or anything like that.. so i just figured i tighten them as good as i could.
...
i have not gotten the repair manual yet. dont really think ill need it after i get the heads on properly.
...
whats the torque ratio that i have to apply to the head bolts?


For some reason I feel like Duane setup another account and is playing with us. But I'll bite.

Info on torquing head bolts here (learn how to use search):
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81519&highlight=head+bolt+torque+procedure