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rzimmerl
05-19-2010, 05:34 PM
This idea came from a request in the Canton coolant tank thread. Canton has shown interest in producing fabricated aluminum valve covers. I will get an RGA from Canton this week and send them a set of covers for quote. Post here with any information or details you would like to see in a possible new product.

XR7 Dave
05-19-2010, 06:26 PM
A little more valvetrain clearance would be nice but you can't go too high or it will hit various things. I'm thinking an additional 1/4" would be nice. Also, since the fabricated covers won't likely dip down in the middle, that will add some clearance as well.

Toms-SC
05-19-2010, 06:58 PM
Id like a set either way but a touch extra clearence would be nice.

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 07:02 AM
Any objections to deleting the oil fill tube extension and adding the distance on to the valve cover piece?

BlackbirdSc94
05-20-2010, 09:53 AM
I wanna see some old school thunderbird type covers, with the T-bird on em:cool:

Canton_nick
05-20-2010, 10:15 AM
I wanna see some old school thunderbird type covers, with the T-bird on em:cool:

These are going to be fabbed valve covers so unfortunately theyre going to be pretty plain. Just very clean looking.


Ryan send the covers over on RGA 0142.

Write it on the box like last time and well get the ball rolling.

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 10:18 AM
I wanna see some old school thunderbird type covers, with the T-bird on em:cool:

Any form of decorative stamping would increase cost significantly that I don't think we would want to pay for, due to the fact that special dies would have to be made. As for now I was just planning for plain fabricated covers with no decorative features, to keep cost down.

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 10:20 AM
These are going to be fabbed valve covers so unfortunately theyre going to be pretty plain. Just very clean looking.


Ryan send the covers over on RGA 0142.

Write it on the box like last time and well get the ball rolling.

Will do, I'll have them out tomorrow, and I'll give you a call today.

Canton_nick
05-20-2010, 10:34 AM
Will do, I'll have them out tomorrow, and I'll give you a call today.

Thanks bud.:D:D Cant wait to get them done for you guys.!

Pablo94SC
05-20-2010, 11:11 AM
There is a difference between early and late model covers and heads. I don't know exactly what the differences are, but I have early model heads and my stock 94 valve covers leaked. Early model covers solved it. Just an FYI.

91BLOWNBIRD
05-20-2010, 01:44 PM
I like the idea of keeping them plain and since you cant really see them just an aluminum/steel/polished look will be awesome.

What is the material for these? and how much $ are we looking at?

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 02:18 PM
I like the idea of keeping them plain and since you cant really see them just an aluminum/steel/polished look will be awesome.

What is the material for these? and how much $ are we looking at?

They will be made of aluminum, we should have a single and group purchase price in a couple weeks.

XR7 Dave
05-20-2010, 04:35 PM
There is a difference between early and late model covers and heads. I don't know exactly what the differences are, but I have early model heads and my stock 94 valve covers leaked. Early model covers solved it. Just an FYI.

As long as they are made based on the early model design, they will work on both.

XxSlowpokexX
05-20-2010, 04:52 PM
I have early model heads with late model covers for years. WHats the difference. Mien never leaked

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 04:52 PM
I am sending them an early model set along with a matching gasket.

Toms-SC
05-20-2010, 04:52 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Dave. Would we have to worry about gasket material at all?

Nettlesd
05-20-2010, 05:24 PM
Any chance we could get the value covers made like the attached picture?

XR7 Dave
05-20-2010, 06:02 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Dave. Would we have to worry about gasket material at all?

If they make the flange to match the 89-93 valve covers then an OE gasket can be used. In most cases with fabricated covers people have to use flat cork gaskets. However, if they are made right, there is no reason why we can't use the OE gaskets which would be preferred.

NettlesD, you might want to ask Mike how he would feel about someone copying his design.

Nettlesd
05-20-2010, 08:36 PM
NettlesD, you might want to ask Mike how he would feel about someone copying his design.

I meant no disrespect to Mike. I love the design and would love to have a pair.

How about a knock-off copy of a Roush.

Duffy Floyd
05-20-2010, 09:11 PM
I imagine the "Powered by Roush" would be a trademark violation. :rolleyes:

XR7 Dave
05-20-2010, 09:24 PM
I meant no disrespect to Mike. I love the design and would love to have a pair.

How about a knock-off copy of a Roush.

You could always make your own.

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 09:49 PM
Here is a link to the style of valve covers we will be getting.

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=6520

XR7 Dave
05-20-2010, 09:55 PM
Here is a link to the style of valve covers we will be getting.

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=6520

There are many different styles on that page. Which one specifically?

rzimmerl
05-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Not sure which, it was just a general statement on what to expect. All those details are up in the air yet, and to be figured when they get the cores.

Toms-SC
05-21-2010, 12:16 AM
Dave, if you have something specific you know would benefit the community I'd give Nick a shout. For example if these units can be raised x amount without interference of other components. :D

Canton_nick
05-21-2010, 08:53 AM
I meant no disrespect to Mike. I love the design and would love to have a pair.

How about a knock-off copy of a Roush.


Im not sure if you guys know but EVERY single Roush car has our oil pans on it. And Every ford racing crate engine has one of our pans on them.

Im pretty positive that noone has copyrighted or trademarked the removable top valve covers.

Just FYI, Making them that way would be VERY expensive.

We reccomend cork gaskets with any fabbed aluminum valve cover.

We look at the factory gasket configuration and work with it.

rzimmerl
05-21-2010, 08:56 AM
Does anyone know if cork gaskets are even available for our style valve cover?

Nick, I am sending you a Fel Pro gasket that is standard replacement for the Ford 3.8. We would like to use this gasket on the fabbed covers.

CMac89
05-21-2010, 09:14 AM
I like cork gaskets. They don't stretch and it doesn't take much torque to get them to seal.

Looking forward to this!! Thanks, Nick and Zim.

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2010, 03:14 PM
Nick.....Oil pan would be VERY nice:O)...Just sayin

Canton_nick
05-21-2010, 03:15 PM
Nick.....Oil pan would be VERY nice:O)...Just sayin

Cant hurt to try to make one. Anyone have a core?

Duffy Floyd
05-21-2010, 04:51 PM
The oil pans on this engine are cast AL and form a portion of the rigidity of the lower block when assembled. On some cars they also have a sensor bung for the vehicle maintenance monitor which monitors level and oil temperature.

Any issues with using these aftermarket pans on such an engine?

ricardoa1
05-21-2010, 05:07 PM
I think we are going at this the wrong way. Nick from Canton must think we are just kids in a candy store that wants anything we want from our cars. But can those kids afford the snickers bar when they only have a dime for a Hersheys kiss. We have us a problem. Maybe we need to discuss what items are important to continuing develpment of our car and at what cost. Not just ask Canton "Can you also make this". We need to organize our thoughts.

1st what does Canton Make or are interested in making for our cars. And what do we as a club want produced?
2nd how expensive will the item be once its in production?
3rd How many are interested in it after all the details are laid out?

If we bounce around Nick will likeley walk away from all of this since they are there to make money. And if we dont have a discussion then we wont get anything going.

So what is important? Oil Pans, Valve Covers, Universal Reservoirs, Stock replacement Reservoirs. Ect........

We can keep asking Canton, Oh BTW can you make this? But we have not even gotten anywhere with the first product.

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Me...I see no need for valve covers, coolant tanks (that wont fit my car). Just my opinion...But I think an oil pan will and can benifit all. Its also something I most definitely would buy. Canton is known for thier masterful oil pan creations. I have one on my turbo car (albiet it hasnt run for 7 years!). But still

rzimmerl
05-22-2010, 09:40 AM
Cant hurt to try to make one. Anyone have a core?

I have a few spares, that have the low oil sensor in them. Let's finish one project before we go into another. IE lets finish the stock replacement tanks or possible universal one, and the valve covers and go from there. I am sure more possible products will come as the others products get installed and people see the actual product.

DLF
05-22-2010, 07:49 PM
I agree with Duffy, the oil pan is structural, an aluminum replacement might be a big mistake on high powered engines.

I would have no interest in valve covers based upon the early design.

XR7 Dave
05-22-2010, 10:26 PM
I agree with Duffy, the oil pan is structural, an aluminum replacement might be a big mistake on high powered engines.


I guess my motor is likely to break, in that case. :)

DLF
05-22-2010, 10:35 PM
I guess my motor is likely to break, in that case. :)

Well, I suppose we'll find out. ;)

CMac89
05-22-2010, 10:54 PM
I agree with Duffy, the oil pan is structural, an aluminum replacement might be a big mistake on high powered engines.
Wow.........

rzimmerl
05-24-2010, 08:33 AM
I would have no interest in valve covers based upon the early design.

Can you elaborate a little more on why?

Canton_nick
05-24-2010, 09:02 AM
Trust me, Bouncing around will not make me run away. Personally im not into it for the money at all. I am an avid builder and i have a car that may not be as hard to get parts for as the coupes but in the power range im making on a 4 cylinder it is very hard to get parts so i have to get things made.

I bounce around alot when im on my forums discussing new products. You should see me here on a daily basis at canton. I am tryin my best to try to come up with new product ideas.

I agree with not getting in over your heads and being like a kid in the candy store. Ryan has a great way of looking at it. Get a few things done first and then move onto another.

I would be more than happy to take on the task of oil pans but to be more efficient and accurate lets do the valve covers and the tanks first.

We would be more than happy to produce parts for your vehicles not for the money but because if you guys are happy with our products and they can benefit you it makes us happy.

We are all racers and builders here so we know what it is like.


I am not gunna run away. This is actually a pretty cool forum.

XR7 Dave
05-24-2010, 02:16 PM
Well, lets get 'er did then.

I'm in for valve covers.

Canton_nick
05-24-2010, 02:34 PM
Ive been checking the group buy thread regularly. Once it hits 10 im goning to give ryan a call and get this all sorted out.

rzimmerl
05-24-2010, 03:04 PM
I'll post up a GP for the valve covers when we get the details all worked out.

XxSlowpokexX
05-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Nick thats great to know..Glad to have someone on our side that appreciates the fact that we dont have a multitude of parts that we can just buy. Me..I'm waiting around for the oil pans:O)

sinhumane
05-25-2010, 11:22 PM
Can you elaborate a little more on why?

the 94/5 covers are different from the early ones. you put early ones on a late model, they leak, and vice versa.

i believe i have a set of covers kicking around for a late model. if i can get them found, i'll mail them off to you nick, so you can survey the differences, and hopefully not have to make too many changes to accommodate both sides of the sc crowd. ;)

rzimmerl
05-25-2010, 11:48 PM
Quote:
the 94/5 covers are different from the early ones. you put early ones on a late model, they leak, and vice versa.

i believe i have a set of covers kicking around for a late model. if i can get them found, i'll mail them off to you nick, so you can survey the differences, and hopefully not have to make too many changes to accommodate both sides of the sc crowd.





As long as they are made based on the early model design, they will work on both.


Post 13 page 1.


Looks like only 1 set of covers will be needed for ALL of us, 89-95.

Flex
05-26-2010, 04:24 PM
Nick,

I would be interested in a few set if they were this style 65-345 - SBF as oppossed to something like this 65-385 - BBF.

It would be nice to have them as tall as possible without bumping into anything for added rocker clearance. This may allow for the install of a stud girdle and improve performance in the upper rpms.

Can anything be done to improve the poor positioning of the pcv valve? The factory covers allow for oil to be drawn into the induction system as the valve is too close to the oil splash. Do your valve covers have any sort of revised baffling in that area?

Thanks for coming on board.

Ken Seegers
05-26-2010, 05:48 PM
Ryan,
I would be interested in at least one set, maybe two.

thanks
Ken

rzimmerl
05-26-2010, 06:18 PM
Thanks for positive outlook on this guys. Hopefully they turn out to be something we can pursue and get a good price on them.

As mentioned before, let us know what style you like and any other features that you may like to see. I like the 65-345-SBF style myself, with the oil filler neck welded in position without the extension.

Flex
05-26-2010, 09:56 PM
How many people does that potentially make with Ken?

Nettlesd
05-26-2010, 10:21 PM
As mentioned before, let us know what style you like and any other features that you may like to see.

I would still like to see the 2-piece valve cover produced. I know that Nick said it would be expensive but how expensive.

rzimmerl
05-26-2010, 10:57 PM
How many people does that potentially make with Ken?

I don't think we will have to big of a problem rounding up 10 people for a Group Purchase.

rzimmerl
05-26-2010, 11:02 PM
I would still like to see the 2-piece valve cover produced. I know that Nick said it would be expensive but how expensive.

I really don't feel comfortable have them quoted as the 2 piece since they were desgined by another member, and I believe he has manufactured a set for his personal vehicle.

95_XR7
05-27-2010, 12:54 AM
I don't think we will have to big of a problem rounding up 10 people for a Group Purchase.


I'd be interested in a set as well.

-Corey

Canton_nick
05-27-2010, 09:00 AM
With the cast style, we actually have to start with a core. So in essence it is going to be the same as the factory one just in aluminum.

Wit the fabbed covers, you have more room for like a rocker girdle and etc.

As to the PCV setup. Just tell me where you guys would all agree to put it and we can make the bung for it there.

rzimmerl
05-27-2010, 09:15 AM
After talking with David D. last nite they need to be the 65-345-SBF flange style style for fitment reasons, as the other style will be too big and will hit the coil pack on the driver side. We should also leave the PCV bung and the breather bung in the stock location, since they are easily accessable already and will be a direct swap for those with factory hookups. Nick you'll notice there are baffles under both of these bungs to help with oil splash which should be also installed. The overall height could be increased as much as 1/4" but no more, as interference with the driver side lower IC tube and various others on the passenger side come into play. The oil fill tube must also be placed in the same location as the factory due to fitment of various things on the passenger side.

Ken Seegers
05-27-2010, 09:28 AM
+1 on 1/4" raise. My 93 has stud mounted rockers from the previous owner and the baffle on the driver's side was removed for interference issues. I believe the passenger side was also modifed.

Thanks
Ken

Toms-SC
05-27-2010, 11:43 AM
This would be a fantastic time to find a PCV valve that works and modify the new valve covers to accept them.

Nettlesd
05-27-2010, 12:11 PM
I really don't feel comfortable have them quoted as the 2 piece since they were desgined by another member, and I believe he has manufactured a set for his personal vehicle.

Gotcha! No problem then. Just doesn't hurt to ask.

Toms-SC
06-02-2010, 02:08 PM
Any update? Nick have you received the covers?

rzimmerl
06-02-2010, 02:15 PM
Any update? Nick have you received the covers?

I just spoke with Nick about 2 hours ago. They got the covers last week and the gasket today. They are confident they can make fabricated covers to match the factory design, and not do a cast cover. We discussed about how to raise them a 1/4" without interference, but I need to look at it again as I may have misled them at little on that.

Toms-SC
06-02-2010, 03:08 PM
You rule. Thanks for the update.

Canton_nick
06-03-2010, 09:14 AM
Feel free to give me a ring ryan. Chris our RD guy is actually in the process of doin the math and dimensions of the covers. If you feel that you missed a few points give me a ring or post it here. Chris also reads this forum as well so hes taking notes as to how it needs to be done.

XxSlowpokexX
06-03-2010, 01:13 PM
Nick,

There may even be someoen local to your shop that can swing by so you cac see the engine an dnahthing that may interfere with the covers. Id swinbg by but my car just isnt near stock anymore

XR7 Dave
06-03-2010, 02:26 PM
Nick,

There may even be someoen local to your shop that can swing by so you cac see the engine an dnahthing that may interfere with the covers. Id swinbg by but my car just isnt near stock anymore

Do we care if they fit a stock car?

Hock
06-03-2010, 02:46 PM
Do we care if they fit a stock car?

I would have to so yes just for the fact that people who don't plan on doing a bunch of mods or haven't done a bunch yet will have an alternative that will fit with stock components if the brittle mag covers crack.

Matter of fact I wish I would have had this option last year when I had one crack but lucky for me I knew a guy the was good enough, and brave enough, to weld magnesium. I have since changed to the steel 93 valve covers but having the option to go back to a good set of aluminum is great and something I do plan on doing if this all works out.

XR7 Dave
06-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Well, it may end up being an issue getting more valvetrain clearance and fitting stock IC tubes and throttle body at the same time, especially the 89-90 TB's that have the water passage in them. They are very tight to the valve covers.

What I don't want to see is a new product made with compromises to accommodate a stock installation that doesn't meet the needs of a high performance application.

When I did the AR kits I made LOTS of compromises because everyone hollered that it had to fit under a stock hood. After the design was completed and compromises made, then everyone said "well, sounds like a good excuse to get a fiberglass hood..."

At the price point I expect the valve covers to be at, I don't think many people will be using these as stock replacements. Figure being able to buy 10 pairs of stock valve covers for the price of fabricated covers....

rzimmerl
06-06-2010, 08:59 PM
At the price point I expect the valve covers to be at, I don't think many people will be using these as stock replacements. Figure being able to buy 10 pairs of stock valve covers for the price of fabricated covers....

Very true statement I would suspect also.

To get the 1/4" extra interior clearance, figure raising the lower center section near the height of the PCV and breather sections, then raise those sections also to allow clearance for the baffles. OR to possibly make it easier and cheaper to manufacture, is to raise the baffle sections the 1/4" and make that the height for the covers so the upper plates are a single piece instead of many welded smaller pieces.

Duffy Floyd
06-06-2010, 09:41 PM
You may want to do a comparison between the early and late models and try to model the late model baffling in the valve covers since the redesign was done to reduce oil entrainment into the PCV system. Not trying to muddle the waters but no need to re-design the wheel if you don't have to.

CMac89
06-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Where are we at with this? I'm wanting a set other than these factory turds.

rzimmerl
06-30-2010, 09:37 PM
I called him about 2 weeks ago and said the quote was close to being done. He was on my list to call this week to check in.

rzimmerl
07-21-2011, 07:56 AM
Just updating to see if everyone is still interested, so I can pursue getting a rough estimate for them to be done.

Ken Seegers
07-21-2011, 09:41 AM
Just updating to see if everyone is still interested, so I can pursue getting a rough estimate for them to be done.

Ryan,
I am still interested in 1 set maybe 2.

Thanks
Ken

BLOWN38
07-21-2011, 10:13 AM
Spose I should get some.

94v6kid09
07-21-2011, 10:36 AM
I wanna set please

XR7 Dave
07-21-2011, 11:47 AM
I would buy some, but considering the length of time required to get the coolant tank completed, I am much more interested in having an oil pan built which would actually be useful as opposed to another completely frivolous item.

Kurt K
07-21-2011, 03:12 PM
I would buy some, but considering the length of time required to get the coolant tank completed, I am much more interested in having an oil pan built which would actually be useful as opposed to another completely frivolous item.I agree that an oil pan should be pursued before valve covers.

Toms-SC
07-21-2011, 03:25 PM
Might be worth while to try and find somebody local to Canton for whatever part gets produced next. The season for a lot of the delay was back and forth shipping.

XxSlowpokexX
07-21-2011, 05:44 PM
Did you say Oil pan???

BLOWN38
07-21-2011, 06:56 PM
I would be interested in a pan too, moreso than valve covers. Dave, the one you were working on didn't pan:D out?

XR7 Dave
07-21-2011, 07:15 PM
I would be interested in a pan too, moreso than valve covers. Dave, the one you were working on didn't pan:D out?

Apparently not. :(

VicRattlehead
07-21-2011, 07:58 PM
I'd like to see an oil pan too, but I'd want it for a mod motor.

rzimmerl
07-22-2011, 11:34 AM
I am open to whatever, if we want an oil pan then we can start. I'll have to get an oil pan to them. Dave D. I'll give you a call and discuss how to attack the oil pan. When I get a hold of Nick to ship the coolant tanks, I'll start the converstaion with him on oil pans and start a new thread in this forum if they are interested in producing them.

David Neibert
07-22-2011, 11:43 AM
I'd be more interested in the oil pan than valve covers.

David

Micahdogg
07-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Kurt should have a pile of oil pans that he can send off (like how I did that for you buddy :) ). I would be interested in either a pan or valve covers.

Mike8675309
07-22-2011, 08:03 PM
Perhaps it is best to quantify the benefit of the valve covers. What currently are we unable to do today that would benefit our engine performance but for additional clearance a new set of valve covers would provide? We have a tendency to not push the walls if the walls are too close. If we could have a valve cover with plenty of room, what would that mean to us? I dunno.

If there is a benefit, then there is a benefit. if it is for bling, then that's fine too.

I am in for the coolant reservoir, so I'll be in for valve covers. I like to see new products make it, even if it isn't critical for me.

rzimmerl
07-22-2011, 09:11 PM
It sounds like we would have enough if we either pursue valve covers or oil pans. I'll discuss with Nick what he thinks for both, and see what the price on the valve covers will be and the lead time since they already have valve covers and time to look at them. I think the oil pan will involve much more thought and we should really take time on them to get them right for baffling, oil quantity, and oil pickup. I will pursue both at this time just to see what they are thinking.

XxSlowpokexX
07-23-2011, 03:19 PM
I am just thinking oil pan because I am looking for performance/reliability more then a bit of bling.

As for valve covers if you do have them made make sure they use the latest and greatest gasket design

bowez
07-23-2011, 04:14 PM
I'm still working on the Oil pan, but if you want Canton doesn't bother me one bit.

XR7 Dave
07-23-2011, 11:23 PM
I'm still working on the Oil pan, but if you want Canton doesn't bother me one bit.

I'd rather see you produce the pan you've been working on, I just haven't heard anything in a long time and assumed you'd moved on to other things. Any idea when you'd be ready to produce them?

bowez
07-24-2011, 09:01 AM
Basically just need to get off my butt. I'll try and do some more work on it.

Have the baffle, mounting flange, sump and belly laid out. Still need to do the sides (basically have to start over on them). After this will have to get the drawings inputted into their system.

In a perfect world could be ready in a month but expect this to more of tax time purchase, or a Christmas present.

If have more questions this can continue this in my Oil Pan thread.

gbabione
07-28-2011, 05:28 AM
Although I am not an SCCOA member, I may be interested in a set when they are done. I am putting my engine together now. How soon before they are done? What's the big deal about the oil pan? Does the OEM version not work well on a higher HP motor?

rzimmerl
07-28-2011, 07:08 AM
Although I am not an SCCOA member, I may be interested in a set when they are done. I am putting my engine together now. How soon before they are done? What's the big deal about the oil pan? Does the OEM version not work well on a higher HP motor?

We are just in the beginning stages on the valve covers, as in they have them to see if they are interested in producing them. The OEM pans work on big HP motors, but there is always room for improvement.

gbabione
07-28-2011, 09:14 AM
Thanks. I saw this thread had started over a year ago and thought maybe they were close to being complete.

Micahdogg
07-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Stock pans are fragile too.

XxSlowpokexX
07-28-2011, 06:21 PM
We are just in the beginning stages on the valve covers, as in they have them to see if they are interested in producing them. The OEM pans work on big HP motors, but there is always room for improvement.

as do the oem valvecovers. Unlike he valvecovers the pans canhelp in the HP and longevity department!

bowez
07-28-2011, 08:35 PM
Stock pans are fragile too.

This was the reason I started the project.

XxSlowpokexX
07-28-2011, 11:10 PM
This was the reason I started the project.

Im down for one fo sho

Toms-SC
07-29-2011, 12:39 PM
Looks like the interest lies in the oil pan for the moment.