Need suggestions, no start situation...

SoloKing

Registered User
Ok, first you need to know its a 1990 SC that I've done a 347 swap in.

Electronics are from a 1993 5.0 LX and everything is wired in, including EEC relay. I've had no major problems after the swap until now. The car has been running great for just over 6 monthes now and I haven't touched really anything in that time.

Last Saturday I took it out for about an hour, got a full tank of wawa gas. First time I've filled it up in about 3 monthes, i barely drive the thing. Car ran fine from the gas station home. Parked about 15 min start it up went about a block and the engine shut off. Didn't buck or sputter, nothing. Then it won't start. First checked fuel pump, its on and runs. Seems to have enough pressure but I can't check my guage is broke. New one is coming. Checked injectors, 12v at all of them with key on. Spark at coil, spark at plug. Changed idle speed control, changed EECs. All with no difference at all. Even changed the fuel regulator. Spray ether and the engine ingites but doesn't run.

Would a bad TPS or old coil have any effect on this? Seems like a fuel problem to me, but I've checked everything in the fuel managment and everything seems fine... The fuel pump is probibly only a year old and it sprays gas out the shrader valve if checked. Like I said I don't know the exact pressure until my new guage comes.

Any ideas?
 
shot in the dark buuuutttt

When I first tried to break in my new motor I was having the same issue. The engine starts but dies when the starter disengages. Turns out the ignition switch went bad. The switch would cut primary power off in the run position however supplied full power all the way forward which of course engages the starter. (At least primary power for start when forward)

Just food for thought.


-lates
 
Need to check for injector fire. You stated that they have 12v with key on. On the other wire do they have injector pulse while cranking....You not going to have a coil problem if you have spark. TPS problem can occur only if it is stuck in the WOT position. This shuts the injectors off. Need to check injector pulse next. Use a test light and probe the injector wire at the connector while cranking it....One is 12V or B+ like you stated. The other will flash while cranking , showing you injector function. What kind of distibutor/Stator are you using?
 
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easy fix if its fuel related, just give it a shot of start spray. If the engine fires up and dies your having fuel issues. Being crazy you can actually keep the engine running with quick shots of engine spray.
 
Starter spray....

I think you metioned that you already used the starter spray to no effect. if the starting spray fails to get the engine running (should run for a couple of seconds on a large spray). It definetly doesn't sound like a fuel problem. Check for spark at the coil. You can check this safely by hooking up an inductive timing light and turning over the engine (of have someone else do so) and see if the light on the timing gun comes on (flashing(. You can put this on any of your plug wires. The coil wire, if it works will be much faster than the rest.

You can also try a new fuel filter. Have you tried pulling engine codes to see what you get there. They might point you in the right direction. There is also a very good chance you ignition switch could be bad. Also check ALL fuses and relays.

Remember the four strokes of our engines:

Intake (air)
compression (pistion)
combustion (ignition system i.e. plugs, wires, coil, ignition module plus wiring)
exhaust (not likely blocked)

You may also want to pull the plugs and check you cylinder compression.

You basically need air, fuel and spark. Verify all of these and see which one is your problem.
 
Use a test light and probe the injector wire at the connector while cranking it....One is 12V or B+ like you stated. The other will flash while cranking , showing you injector function.?

Ok used a multimeter instead of test light b/c they get smashed in my tool boxes, but from the other wire while engine cranking read no power. Now that goes directly into the EEC correct? I've swapped the EEC with no change already, going to follow wires back. I picked up a TP sensor from the j yard so going to try that tomorrow.

Also EEC pulls code 123- TP sensor too high, did pull this before and ran. 552,558, for air pump and egr, but I have chips on them and the instructions says those codes will still come up.

Let me add the TP sensor that is on it came with the eldebrock 65mm TP and use to pull the code "out of range" before.
 
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Then you have no injector fire. Is this car CKP equipped? Or are the injectors fired through the distributor stator? Check your TPS voltage and make sure its not maxed. If it is normal then you know you have actual injector fire issue and not TP interference...
Dont quote me on this but im pretty sure it is as follows for the TP sensor wiring
DG/LG is Voltage reference and should read 5 volts.
BK/W is ground
O/W is the voltage input to the EEC...this should read under a volt at closed throttle all the way to 4.5-5.0 volts at WOT...
No need to swap parts. Use your voltmeter and see what you have. If it is reading around a volt on the Orange and White wire with the throttle closed....that isnt your problem and you have a staor or CKP problem...depending on which system eletronics you are using....
Leave the sensor plugged in and probe the connector by the way...there are only three wires
 
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Got the fuel pressure guage reads 35 psi all the time. Changed TPS sensor, still no change wont start.

The distributor is oem ford 5.0 connects into the ford tfi. I have a MSD 6al on it but I've already taken that out with no change. I don't know what a CKP is so I doubt that the car has one.

Didn't check the voltage on the TPS yet will do later today, its a pain with the Roush set up because its upside down. I have to remove the 2nd upper manifold just to get to the TPS.

What about the ignition switch is that where the key is or is there some thing else?
 
Tested TP wires, looks that my orange and green are mixed up. 5v on orange and 1v on green. Green goes to 5v at wot. Going to swap the wires.
 
Ok, TPS wired and reading fine. Still no change, won't start.

Scanned EEC. TPS code gone, now pulls code 113 ACT above voltage.

Still no pulse in the injectors.
 
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I have the oem 5.0 ford distributor in the car. That is about the only thing left that i can check before i hit the wall. What exactly am I looking for in it the PIP signal?
 
I've changed the whole distributor, stator, TFI ingnition module. Still nothing. I'm completely out of ideas. What would be next checking the injectors at the EEC?
 
CKP is a crank sensor. ....You need to get your hands on an H Manual for 1993. Here is one on Ebay....this is what we use at the dealer for problems like these. There is no substitute and it is step by step for condition or codes occuring....You may need a 64 pin breakout box as well though. With this you will figure it out. I would get the book and dignos it step by step before you go throwing more parts at it. It may have IDM circuit problem or something.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...30236392646QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature
Also, and this is a long shot....Unplug the TPS completely and see if you have injector fire when its sent into failure mode effects management(FMEM). You also need to check you ground situation. If you have spark and fuel I would guess that your grounds for the EEC are fine (G101). But the injector drivers may use a different one....
 
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Replaced the stator in the distributor, PIP signal is fine. Everything checks out. I figure it has to be the EEC, everything has been replaced but that. There is no grounds in the wiring harness seperate for the injectors. The current EEC has power and scans, injectors get no power.
 
I say eec!! my eec kicked out a code indicating the internal voltage regulator was going out.. From what I understand this can happen if you disconnect and reconnect the battery several times. The car acted possessed at times, engine cutting out, high idles, tach bouncing around etc. The eec nearly got me killed:mad: was powering through a turn with a nice apex angle, tires giving slight protest then the engine dies for a second! The sudden shudder of power destroyed my hold on the turn. Almost went over the ramp side, lucky I regained control. Hell next day another eec was in the mail.
 
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