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View Full Version : 93 SC did not like SCT or diablo. Un-Chipable?



EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 01:14 PM
I put new plugs on wires (motorcraft 8mm 5595) (autolite xp103 @ .046), and did a baseline dyno run. It was 205 RWHP and 297 Lb ft of torque, at the wheels. Pretty good for bone stock with 98k! Add 50 to the numbers and that is what the crank sees.

Anyway I wanted to chip it for future mods and also so I could get lower fan temps. 195 and like 201 for HS. Evidently this EEC is very aggressive already and not much could be done and the changes made it slower?

Question. Best way to get my fan to come on at 195/201. When I stop at idle after getting it it hits that 225 number at the M of norm. ME NO LIKEY! Also nothing like how my car preforms cold and it preform better in the middle than at the end of M. Any suggestions?????

rzimmerl
10-22-2010, 01:21 PM
They are most certainly able to be tuned quite a bit, with multiple different methods.

90blkbrd
10-22-2010, 01:30 PM
Evidently this EEC is very aggressive already and not much could be done and the changes made it slower?

Evidently you heard wrong. The factor AFR isn't aggressive. Just by leaning it out some and yet still have a safe AFR will net you HP.

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Even stock? It wouldn't idle right after install and I lost power on the dyno. Tuner said power loss even after chip was due to cold to operating temp and the idle was increased caused idle stumbling. He said "the converter and not to worry". I could not live with a car idling like it was misfiring. Once chip was out, ran perfect.

You think bad tune? My thoughts on the 180 mile drive home was that he had it set up for V-8 birds and just overlooked it. He seemed a bit rusty with familiarity with the SC V-6 component local. This guy catered to mostly Stangs but in Oregon are options are limited. I thought he was honest which is rare in the car business.

rzimmerl
10-22-2010, 01:32 PM
Bad tune, I'd pull the chip and get it off to one of the tuners on here that have the right experience.

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Oh, I left without it and he didn't make me buy it. My car ran and performed better without it.

ricardoa1
10-22-2010, 02:26 PM
Get in contact with Dave Dalke, SCU. he can sell you a chip with tune into it. Tell him all your mods and plans and he will mail you a SCT or a BE chip. He can add more timing and give you a tune from a similar modded car so you replicate the results. And also adjust your fan setting to whatever you want.

Toms-SC
10-22-2010, 03:54 PM
I put new plugs on wires (motorcraft 8mm 5595) (autolite xp103 @ .046), and did a baseline dyno run. It was 205 RWHP and 297 Lb ft of torque, at the wheels. Pretty good for bone stock with 98k! Add 50 to the numbers and that is what the crank sees.

Anyway I wanted to chip it for future mods and also so I could get lower fan temps. 195 and like 201 for HS. Evidently this EEC is very aggressive already and not much could be done and the changes made it slower?

Question. Best way to get my fan to come on at 195/201. When I stop at idle after getting it it hits that 225 number at the M of norm. ME NO LIKEY! Also nothing like how my car preforms cold and it preform better in the middle than at the end of M. Any suggestions?????

255hp crank...stock?....Highly unlikely....These cars werent under rated by Ford...More likely ,you went to a feel good dyno..

BLOWN38
10-22-2010, 04:17 PM
And get rid of the auto lite xp103s. Those are the single platinum plugs, correct? Heard our waste fire ignition doesn't like single platinums.

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 04:23 PM
Well, the dyno operated was shocked. I watched a sprayed with 20 psi blown mach 1 (o4) with tons of mods only do 412. Lot's of Mustang fox numbers under 200. This was his baseline run before the chip to show the "improvement" after the tune. It would have been in his best interest to have this number as low as possible. Not logical it was feel good. Might not have been the harder "mustang" dyno but all he tunes is Mustangs since our SC's are very rare. I didn't bother to ask the dyno manufacturer but just by putting those xp 103's at .046 made a drastic difference. My 93 Mustang had a built 347 with the B block and ported aluminum gt40 X headed motor from Ford racing and this SC impresses the hell out of me.

Hey. Sometimes you get a good one? I posted the run on FB and quoted that I had better then "new" numbers, bone stock. Hey, I'm happy. I may do an exhaust but feel fortunate. I am not modding this car and sacrificing reliability. It pulls way too hard and has 98k miles. Who would of thunk?

take care, Linc

XR7 Dave
10-22-2010, 04:26 PM
There is nothing wrong with Autolite XP's unless you are running nitrous. Those plugs are a platinum/iridium hybrid.

I've dyno'd 200+rwhp on many stock SC's but that doesn't make them freaks or super fast. Generally what it is, is the car is run on the dyno before it is up to operating temperature so the knock sensor is off. Once the car is warm it won't tolerate as much timing and the knock sensor will kick in pulling power back and saving the motor from self destruction.

Physics and mechanics. Nothing more.

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 04:29 PM
Very true Dave. Once at Operating temp my numbers went down. Dave knows his stuff. I lost about 8 hp at operating temp.

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 04:40 PM
Right again Dave on the Xp 103's. I did TONS of homework. I also ran th 504FM douple PP's from Motorcraft and the Autolite 5144. XP 103 doing much better. I also figured the plugs out. I can do them in half an hour. All from the bottom except passenger front. I bounced for years and hated my small hands because I was forced to grapple. As a mechanic..... Thank you God. lol

David Neibert
10-22-2010, 04:47 PM
There is nothing wrong with Autolite XP's unless you are running nitrous. Those plugs are a platinum/iridium hybrid.


I've got a set of the XP103s gapped to .035 in my 91, that were installed just before the Shootout. So far so good.

David

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 05:05 PM
See, SC Dave knows his stuff too. He only gaps his smaller because he has a 10 second car I imagine is generating a bit more boost than stock. I am always glad when the Dave's and Big-E chime in. Always helpful. I like this forum.

I still would like some tricks on springs. Contemplating putting some H&R's in. Suggestions welcome as well. Thank you everyone!

BLOWN38
10-22-2010, 05:25 PM
I guess XP's are ok then, cause DD says so.:) I use NGK BR7EF's, but I make a bit more than 200 HP.

XxSlowpokexX
10-22-2010, 05:27 PM
Car runs strong thats great! With a relatively stock car however I dont think Id spend the cash for a chip. Ive also had good experience with the XP plugs. Youll get the HP bug soon enough I assure you!

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 08:51 PM
It seems my car likes the cooler temps. That seems to be a HUGE factor in how it preforms. I need to col it down. I am going to a 180, I have no idea what is in there but it has a new radiator and thermo from Ford (prev owner). I may need to go with bigger radiator off a 4.6> I dunno. I'll ask in the forum.


Linc

XxSlowpokexX
10-22-2010, 08:55 PM
4.6 rad wont work and adding a 180 tstat will just put your fan into OD. There are several things on your car that will cut timing or activate the knock sensor. Thats where you are most likely feeling a power loss when hot. Better IC works wonders. For now you can add a fan on your stock one which may help a bit

EatonEmployee
10-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Great idea. Yeah compressed air generates heat. Physics. A fan on that IC would absolutely cool it down. Thank you!

Mike8675309
10-22-2010, 11:38 PM
yes... if you just want basic stuff, you could probably get a Moates F3 chip with tweaked tune to get your fan temps changed and maybe some slight stuff. Talk with XR7 Dave. It will likely be cheaper than any SCT or Diablo solution and if you're just looking for basic stuff and don't need data logging it can be done really reasonably.

Some points. The stock 93 tune pulls timing at:

WOT ACT 0 at 120 -4 at 150 interpolated on the way there, -3 at 240f.
WOT ECT -4 at 0 at 216 -4 at 230, interpolated on the way.
Knock sensor can pull up to -8 degrees

Target AFR at 75% load and higher at 3000 rpm is 10.98. Target AFR at 75% load at 4000 rpm and higher is 9.95.

BLOWN38
10-23-2010, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=Mike8675309;912706]
Some points. The stock 93 tune pulls timing at:

WOT ACT 0 at 120 -4 at 150 interpolated on the way there, -3 at 240f.
WOT ECT -4 at 0 at 216 -4 at 230, interpolated on the way.
QUOTE]

Do what!?:confused:

WOT ACT it pulls 0* timing at 120*F and -4* at 150*F but only -3 at 240*F?

And then ECT is really screwing me up. -4*timing at what temp(216) and -4* at what temp(230)?

I know its kinda early here, but I think it was later for you.:p:)

And them target AFR's are FAT

Just asking for clarification, Mike. Not trying to bust your balls.

David Neibert
10-23-2010, 11:45 AM
See, SC Dave knows his stuff too. He only gaps his smaller because he has a 10 second car I imagine is generating a bit more boost than stock. I am always glad when the Dave's and Big-E chime in. Always helpful. I like this forum.

I still would like some tricks on springs. Contemplating putting some H&R's in. Suggestions welcome as well. Thank you everyone!

Blown38 (aka Chris) is a little faster than me, so don't ignore what he says. BTW, my 91 SC was a 10 second car, but since removing the nitrous it's only a low 11 second car.

David

EatonEmployee
10-23-2010, 10:44 PM
well the car is just protecting the motor. I would rather loose HP than a motor. It's pulling it to stop the heat. I just need to cool this thing down. I am gonna change my coolant and get it perfect, do the IC fan. Summit? Since the EEC didn't like the chips and we didn't add one it has done that miss at idle it did with the chip in. Does the EEC remember? If so, how long? I am beginning to think my crank sensor is going.

I can fix anything. Ignorance is my biggest adversary with this SC. I'll be a pro soon enough. I am learning.

Mike8675309
10-24-2010, 01:00 AM
Do what!?:confused:

WOT ACT it pulls 0* timing at 120*F and -4* at 150*F but only -3 at 240*F?


what what?:confused:

WOT vs ACT and WOT vs ECT are adders. The value in degrees is an adder to the total timing calculated. Thus when it says ACT pulls -4 degrees at 150f, that means if the total timing calculated is 20, and ACT temp is 140, then the timing demanded will be 16, not 20. (20-4 = 16).

If ACT at 120 says 0 degrees, and at 140 it says -4 degrees and the actual ACT is 130 degrees, the timing adjustment applied will not be 0 and it won't be -4. It will be some value between them based on interpolation. In this case, -2.

This is data I've pulled out of the stock tune for my 93sc.


Since the EEC didn't like the chips and we didn't add one it has done that miss at idle it did with the chip in. Does the EEC remember? If so, how long? I am beginning to think my crank sensor is going.

If your crank sensor fails, the engine shuts off, so it is pretty easy to detect when that happens. I'm not satisfied that the EEC didn't like the chips though it wouldn't be the first time that someone ran into a bad EEC-IV.

XR7 Dave
10-24-2010, 06:46 AM
Since the EEC didn't like the chips and we didn't add one it has done that miss at idle it did with the chip in. Does the EEC remember? If so, how long?


No such thing. The tuner didn't know what he was doing.

The "tune" or lack thereof won't make it miss. You have something else going on.

EatonEmployee
10-24-2010, 11:57 AM
when the chip was installed my numbers went down. Then the horrible miss. Tuner said the SC was already tuned aggressively and some EEC's don't like SCT or Diablo's. My car NEVER did this miss when the chip was in and stopped when it was pulled. NOW, my car has repeated it twice in the following two days??? I'm confused?

XR7 Dave
10-24-2010, 12:17 PM
when the chip was installed my numbers went down. Then the horrible miss. Tuner said the SC was already tuned aggressively and some EEC's don't like SCT or Diablo's. My car NEVER did this miss when the chip was in and stopped when it was pulled. NOW, my car has repeated it twice in the following two days??? I'm confused?

Like I said, tuner doesn't know what he's talking about and was just making excuses. EEC's do not "not like" chips. The EEC's architecture is such that it cannot reject a chip tune, and no the 93 SC tune is not excessively aggressive in the first place. The tune is accurate for the car which is what Ford intended. It is entirely possible that his "tune" just sucked that badly. It wouldn't be the first time.

It also quite possible that something happened to it while it was on the dyno, unrelated to the chip. First suspect would be plugs and wires, as well as check all wiring next the DIS and coil pack. While connecting rpm pickup they might have disturbed a harness or connector.

Since you say the car runs fine most of the time then I am inclined not to suspect physical damage, although it wouldn't be the first time someone detonated a motor on the dyno and caused permanent damage. Most likely it is just electrical. If the miss is really bad when it happens, look to a cam sensor or DIS, but if it's just a light miss then check what I said above.

EatonEmployee
10-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Will do all Dave, thanks. The tuner was a great guy. However he did not know where my fuel pressure regulator was and he didn't remember where the EEC was. It was the same place as my 93 GT. He is a Mustang tuner but he said he understood and did SC's. My stock EEC did higher numbers than with his chip but he said it was because the engine got to OT and cooler engines preform better. I suspected even if this was so that the chip should have created some improvements. The crazy bouncy idle and what felt like a horrible miss, was... well, I CC'd him. Hopefully he chimes in and we can figure it out.


Keep in mind. My car is totally stock. Other than xp103's and Motorcraft 8mm wires.