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David Neibert
10-27-2010, 11:43 AM
A few of the STL area guys went over to Gateway last night for the last test & tune session of the year. I brought my turbo car to see if I could improve on my previous best ET of 10.7.

First pass with a 16 pounds of boost and badly spinning off the line and again after the shift into 2nd it ran a dissapointing 10.882 @ 133.83 with a 1.905 60ft.

Second pass I lowered the tire pressure from 15.5 to 14.5 PSI and increased the boost to 18 pounds and once again had bad tire spin in 1st and 2nd gear but still went a little quicker running 10.752 @ 134.95 with a slightly better 1.867 60 ft. At this point I was beginning to worry that I would not be able beat my 91s best ET.

Last pass I lowered the tires to 14.0 and increased the boost a little to 19 psi, and was not feeling very good about my chances for an ET lower than my 91. Luckily about 4 cars before I was supposed race, they stopped us and prepped the track for some fast cars racing in a track shootout final. That must have helped because even though it was spinning off the line it was still accelerating pretty hard and I didn't feel any spin after the shift into 2nd. When I saw the 1.633 60 ft on the scoreboard I knew it was going to be my best pass, and was expecting something in the 10.5s. When I got the timeslip I was pleasantly suprised to see it had ran a 10.281 @ 136.28 :eek:

I'm 99% certian that with better tires and a little more boost, I can get into the 9s. The guy helping me (Dan Saitz of Hyperformance) said for the fuel we had in the car (50/50 mix 93/116 octane) we could have added 3 more degrees of timing and turned up the boost to the sweet spot of 24 psi and the car would run 9.8s. Oh yeah this was done at full street weight with the only changes being the race wheels/tires (aprox 4200 lbs). Best of all nothing broke.

David

neverfastenough
10-27-2010, 11:49 AM
You dynoed prior to this right, how much did it make? Very fast, time for that 9.8 run.

rzimmerl
10-27-2010, 11:50 AM
Congrats, glad to see the V8 car was finally able to beat your V6 car. So I would assume a shot at the 9's for next year?

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 12:18 PM
You dynoed prior to this right, how much did it make? Very fast, time for that 9.8 run.

No I didn't dyno it, just went over the the race shop that has been doing some work on the car and updated the firmware and software for the Fast XFI to the latest version and copied my old tunes over. That is also when we discovered that I've been driving on the race tune for the past year or so :eek:

After looking at the race tune it's not really very agressive and the only differince between it and the street tune was more timing on the bottom end to assist with spooling the turbo on the trans brake, and two more degrees of timing on the top end (20 degrees vs 18 degrees).

If I can find a set of 28" DOT slicks quick enough to get them on the car before the KY meet with the Arnold clan next week, I'll try jacking the boost up a few more pounds and see what happens.

David

Mike8675309
10-27-2010, 12:20 PM
Congrats on the ET. As you add more and more power you'll run into issues with wheel spin. Optimizing the power through the length of the run is going to be your key for repeatable and fast results.

DrFishbone
10-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Congratulations David! Wish I could come to the KY meet and see the car. :( I have to go to a wedding reception instead. :rolleyes:

BLOWN38
10-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Congrats! I was gonna say you need to put some 28" tall tires on it, for both cars. I have some ET street bias plys for sale that I could throw on some SC wheels for KY. But I think I would try the hoosiers as I believe the tread width is wider than the MT's.

kenewagner
10-27-2010, 12:59 PM
Great job:D Gotta make you feel it is all worth it in the long run. Congats
You could be the king in the Outlaw class next years shootout and I wont have to think about maybe lining up against you in pro street.:D
Ken

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 01:17 PM
Congrats! I was gonna say you need to put some 28" tall tires on it, for both cars. I have some ET street bias plys for sale that I could throw on some SC wheels for KY. But I think I would try the hoosiers as I believe the tread width is wider than the MT's.

Chris,

My wheels are 16" x 8.5". The one inch narrower tread width is the reason I don't want to use the M/T 28" tires. Do you have more info on those Hoosier 28" tires...is it a DOT slick ?

David

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 01:20 PM
Great job:D Gotta make you feel it is all worth it in the long run. Congats
You could be the king in the Outlaw class next years shootout and I wont have to think about maybe lining up against you in pro street.:D
Ken

Ken,

Planning to install a roll bar in this car and race it in the Outlaw class next year. I imagine Kevin and Chris Lazzo will still be the quickest, but anything can happen on race day.

David

BLOWN38
10-27-2010, 01:24 PM
The MT's are ok on a SC wheel. The Hossiers may be too wide for SC wheel. The Hoosiers should work good on your 8.5 wheel.

Hoosier 28x11.5x16 quick time pro/DOT (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOO-17603/)

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 02:06 PM
The MT's are ok on a SC wheel. The Hossiers may be too wide for SC wheel. The Hoosiers should work good on your 8.5 wheel.

Hoosier 28x11.5x16 quick time pro/DOT (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOO-17603/)

That's the same tire the guy who's been doing a lot of the work on this car reccomended. He's a dealer for Hoosier and MT, and said he could get them on my car before the KY meet next weekend.

David

Toms-SC
10-27-2010, 02:08 PM
Congrats David. I sense you'll make the 9's next time you are out at the track.

1MTNCAT
10-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Congrats on the ET. As you add more and more power you'll run into issues with wheel spin. Optimizing the power through the length of the run is going to be your key for repeatable and fast results.

Not necessarily!!

He needs to get traction with what he has.

What he's not doing is hooking consistantly or 60 footing worth a crap. That is a prime example of what hooking a car can do regardless of power as the car started hooking it really started dropping ET particularly on the last pass. Consistancy comes in the 60 ft's.

A 1.5 60 and the car running out the top could have possibly run a 9. With his set up it should be. ;)

Congrats on your new best David!!

SCrazy
10-27-2010, 02:38 PM
Way to go Dave....this stuff is a long time coming.

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Not necessarily!!

He needs to get traction with what he has.

What he's not doing is hooking consistantly or 60 footing worth a crap. That is a prime example of what hooking a car can do regardless of power as the car started hooking it really started dropping ET particularly on the last pass. Consistancy comes in the 60 ft's.

A 1.5 60 and the car running out the top could have possibly run a 9. With his set up it should be. ;)

Congrats on your new best David!!

I agree 100%....and have a set of those 28" Hoosiers that Chris suggested on order, and they are supposed to be installed on the car prior to racing it next weekend. Now I'm just crossing my fingers that the stock halfshafts don't fail.

David

PS: What do you think about balancing these tires if I'm not using tire screws ?

fturner
10-27-2010, 05:44 PM
Nice runs David.

Fraser

1MTNCAT
10-27-2010, 08:25 PM
I agree 100%....and have a set of those 28" Hoosiers that Chris suggested on order, and they are supposed to be installed on the car prior to racing it next weekend. Now I'm just crossing my fingers that the stock halfshafts don't fail.

David

PS: What do you think about balancing these tires if I'm not using tire screws ?

I wouldn't worry about balancing so much unless you use stick on weights. For a 1/4 mile at a time its really not that necessary.
With the power and weight of the car though you should have tubes and tires screws in the wheels. You are stressing and distorting the tires on launch, that I can assure you. They need to be planted as well as possible.

As Siska and I have done before, Mark the tires at the valve stem with white shoe polish or geddex and check it after a pass and see how much the tire rotates on the wheels. I can guarantee you that you will see what I mean. Then you'll understand why it needs done and why traction is not happening. If it turns them enough it'll break the bead and the tire go flat. The tubes will also help stiffen the sidewall out the big end even at lower tire pressure and make the sidewall a bit stiffer on launch planting the tire better and more even.

Just my .02 cents.

;)

91bird
10-27-2010, 08:34 PM
Congrats on the new PB with that car. Really impressive time.

Drew

CMac89
10-27-2010, 09:04 PM
That's always a good feeling to get an unexpectedly fast time slip on the return road.

What power would you guess it should be making at 19psi?

Good poop!!!

nickleman60
10-27-2010, 09:36 PM
Great time David, sounds like the 9's are coming quick............:D

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 09:44 PM
That's always a good feeling to get an unexpectedly fast time slip on the return road.

What power would you guess it should be making at 19psi?

Good poop!!!

Casey,

I'm thinking it's very close to 700 at the wheels.

David

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 09:50 PM
Great time David, sounds like the 9's are coming quick............:D

It would be nice, if all it took was some new tires and a little more boost. Something tells me it won't be quite that easy.

David

PS: Thanks to everyone for all the nice comments.

neverfastenough
10-27-2010, 10:01 PM
Casey,

I'm thinking it's very close to 700 at the wheels.

David

Are you lifitng before the traps, or running out of rpm? with 700rwhp shouldnt it trap over 140? Of course you are spinning some which i think really hurts a turbo car get to its full boost as quick as possible.

1MTNCAT
10-27-2010, 10:07 PM
It would be nice, if all it took was some new tires and a little more boost. Something tells me it won't be quite that easy.

David

PS: Thanks to everyone for all the nice comments.

David,

I'd be less concerned with the boost than addressing the traction, tire and 60 ft times at this point. If you only pulled a 1.63 and ran that see what it does when it rips a 1.55-1.57. All things being equal as on the previous pass it should go a 10.0 or a 9.9. Once you get the launch dialed in then add power if you can.

The car is making the power to run it, you just have to put it to the ground.

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 10:45 PM
Are you lifitng before the traps, or running out of rpm? with 700rwhp shouldnt it trap over 140? Of course you are spinning some which i think really hurts a turbo car get to its full boost as quick as possible.

On the last two passes it felt like it was on the MSD soft limiter the last couple hundred feet, and the data logs showed that rpm quit climbing at 6600 the last couple seconds of the pass and flatlined with little saw tooth looking marks on the graph, but limiter is set to 6700 so I'm not sure. I think I can go to 6900 safely, but don't really want to.

It could also be the motor starting to choke on the .81 AR turbine housing, or maybe I was just feeling vibrations from the rear tires not being balanced.

Converter slip is also an issue and seems to increase with power. Last time I calculated it on a Mustang dyno, I was getting over 10% slippage at 6500 rpms with 680 rwhp. So with these 3.73 gears and non locking converter the 28" tires should help, both with the traction and with allowing me to clear the traps without hitting the rev limiter.

David

neverfastenough
10-27-2010, 10:46 PM
Sounds like you got it figured out, dont you still have a bigger turbine housing laying around?

David Neibert
10-27-2010, 11:24 PM
David,

I'd be less concerned with the boost than addressing the traction, tire and 60 ft times at this point. If you only pulled a 1.63 and ran that see what it does when it rips a 1.55-1.57. All things being equal as on the previous pass it should go a 10.0 or a 9.9. Once you get the launch dialed in then add power if you can.

The car is making the power to run it, you just have to put it to the ground.

I know the first 60ft is where this car is giving up the most. I also know there are numerous thing I could do to improve that.

The thing is...I'm not really a 100% committed to even trying to go any quicker. My original goal when building the car was high 10s on pump gas and low 10s on race gas...it took me over 5 years to finally reach the final part of that goal last night.

If I wasn't going to Kentucky next weekend to race with the Arnold clan, I probably wouldn't even be in a rush to get new tires on the car. If it runs a high 9 that would be great, but I'm not ready to make that my new goal. Mainly because, I don't want a race car....I just want a fast street car. Everytime I look at the perfect black leather interior, I cringe at the thought of a screwing it up with a roll bar and 5 point harness.

David

1MTNCAT
10-28-2010, 08:07 AM
I know the first 60ft is where this car is giving up the most. I also know there are numerous thing I could do to improve that.

The thing is...I'm not really a 100% committed to even trying to go any quicker. My original goal when building the car was high 10s on pump gas and low 10s on race gas...it took me over 5 years to finally reach the final part of that goal last night.

If I wasn't going to Kentucky next weekend to race with the Arnold clan, I probably wouldn't even be in a rush to get new tires on the car. If it runs a high 9 that would be great, but I'm not ready to make that my new goal. Mainly because, I don't want a race car....I just want a fast street car. Everytime I look at the perfect black leather interior, I cringe at the thought of a screwing it up with a roll bar and 5 point harness.

David


Thats easily remedied. Get a couple good launches in on good tires, rip a 9.9 or 10.0, call it enough and start driving it on the street and leave it alone. Why add power on a street car where you can't use it anyway?

Mission accomplished. :D

David Neibert
10-28-2010, 08:39 AM
Sounds like you got it figured out, dont you still have a bigger turbine housing laying around?

Yes, I've still got the .96 AR housing that was originally on the turbo. I like the way the smaller .81 AR housing spools the turbo about 500 rpms quicker, and don't really want to use the larger one unless I go to a higher stall converter at the same time.

David

super red91
10-28-2010, 09:14 AM
Congrats! That thing is haulin some serious ~~~, do you have any video by chance?

1MTNCAT
10-28-2010, 10:23 AM
Yes, I've still got the .96 AR housing that was originally on the turbo. I like the way the smaller .81 AR housing spools the turbo about 500 rpms quicker, and don't really want to use the larger one unless I go to a higher stall converter at the same time.

David

You don't need all that on a 10 second street car. You are there. :rolleyes:

David Neibert
10-28-2010, 10:49 AM
Congrats! That thing is haulin some serious ~~~, do you have any video by chance?

Thanks Ryan.

I'm not aware of any video, but I did find a pretty decent picture taken by the track photographer of it launching on one of the three passes. I bought it yesterday and should get it by email sometime today.


David

David Neibert
10-28-2010, 11:22 AM
You don't need all that on a 10 second street car. You are there. :rolleyes:

I know...it was just a good example of how things would go if I started chasing a new goal of high 9s and didn't get there with some new tires and more boost.

David

95_XR7
10-28-2010, 07:00 PM
Congratulations David. That's one awesome car. Maybe I can make the shootout next time and see it hopefully. :D

-Corey

Jimmy 2Coupes
10-28-2010, 09:07 PM
That's a hellava e.t. for an mn12 bird Dave. I would love to experience the feeling of a low 10 second pass in one of these heavy azz cars. It looks like 9's are within short reach. Very impressive performance indeed.

David Neibert
10-29-2010, 05:29 PM
New 28" tires arrived today :D

With them and a few minor adjustments to the tune and boost level, it should run even quicker next weekend.

David