Thunderbird won't start

wingzeroac195

wingzeroac195

SCCoA Member
Guys I need help with my T-bird, Is a 1993 Thunderbird SC. one day I started the car and went to work, on the way going there, I notice that the temp gauges was in high, and smoke started to come up from the engine compartment, I stopped and I realized that my electric fan was not working at all, I decided to let it cool down and take it to my mechanic about 10miles away, once the car cool down I left the hood half open and started to drive and I was checking the temp gauge all the time, when I was almost there the car suddenly lost power, and I could not speed up, so I pulled to the side of the road and the car stalled, I tried to start it with no luck, so I took it home. the fuel pump works, because I can hear it, also I check all the wires from the ICRM/CCRM and 2 were loosed so I spliced them correctly, I thought it was the coil, and I replaced with no luck, replace the spark plug wires, spark plugs are new, ICRM/CCRM, fuel pump relay, and the DIS, NOTHING. so finally I bought a scanner and when I plugged to the car the fan actually works :confused:, and gave me the code 114 and 116, but the car cranks including the balancer, it has a full tank, no up arrow, so I don't understand why is not working, please to all the experts I need some help
 
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most likely headgasket failure due to the overheating.

replace your temp sensors, check the ccrm relays and replace gaskets.
 
so you are saying I blew the headgaskets? that is why I'm getting reading 114 and 116? but I thought that when the head gasket breaks you get to drive some and then it get the white smoke, etc but I did not get that at all just driving and suddenly a hesitation, loss power and 10 seconds later the car stalled...what about the fuel pump? I have never changed it and I don't think the previous owner did either, plus the car has 130k already
 
code 114 Air Charge Temperature (ACT) sensor – signal voltage is higher or lower than expected.

code 116 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor signal voltage is higher or lower than expected.

so this mean I need to just replace them?
 
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wingzeroac195 said:
so you are saying I blew the headgaskets? that is why I'm getting reading 114 and 116? but I thought that when the head gasket breaks you get to drive some and then it get the white smoke, etc but I did not get that at all just driving and suddenly a hesitation, loss power and 10 seconds later the car stalled...what about the fuel pump? I have never changed it and I don't think the previous owner did either, plus the car has 130k already
Click to expand...

Generally that "show" your reading about is if you are unfortunate to have the luck of the gaskets going at WOT. My car blew its head gaskets just driving easily along, and it gradually came on... it just started running rougher and rougher until it quit over a 5 minute period. I didn't have a smoke show out of the exhaust, and because it was so cold out it didn't over heat.

If you blow a head gasket, it is generally not a good idea to keep driving it. If the blow occurs so coolant can get into the oil, you don't want that glycol getting any where near the bearings or they are toast. Get yourself a test kit from NAPA or somewhere that tests for combustion gases in the coolant.

Fraser
 
yes, but I know how it feels when the headgaskets blows up, this was different, it feel like the car was no getting gas and suddenly it stalled
 
so,the car cranks but won't start .......you replaced the coil pack,fixed the IRCM,confirmed that you have fuel pressure,etc,etc,etc,.......check your coolant overflow and radiator to see if there is oil mixed with the coolant..check under the oil filler cap for a milky mix of oil and coolant.......as has been said,you probably popped the head gaskets regardless of whether or not you saw white smoke.....as for your codes,they are consistent with your car having overheated.
z
 
Blown gaskets/damaged head = lost compression... no compression = no power.

Could've bent a rod too. Would cause a no start issue.
 
I overheated mine recently and had the same sort of experience; However... since I didn't run the heck out of it, but rather babied it back home, letting it cool off a bit, my HG's were fine.

The running problem afterwards was due mostly to plug wires. I'm not 100% sure because i swapped out the FPR also and it seemed to run better, but new and PROPERLY SEATED :rolleyes: :eek: plug wires finally fixed the whole issue. Don't know if it was all coincidence or from the heat, but I would not conclude the HGs were gone w/o looking into it further. Tooo much work to do based on a guess, even if its a good guess.
 
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wingzeroac195 said:
So 35thauto, any ideas?
Click to expand...

It's not easy from here, did you disconnect the battery when you did the wire fix on the DIS ? Does it back fire when cranking? I have had a harmonic balancer fail 2 times & no start. check the tail pipe for wetness. If you did not disconnect the batt. when doing wire repair this can fry the EEC also.
 
But I do not understand why first the fan did not work, which it made it to over heat, I fixed all the wires on the CCRM/IRCM so that is fixed, the battery was disconnected when I replace the DIS, the spark plug wires are fairly new, the code scanner gave me the codes(so this means the EEC is working?) the car cranks like it is going to start but there is not run, if it was the fuel pump then the car will be like if I'm out of gas, right? (will start for a split second and then die), and I replace the Coil. I thought usually when the HG blows, the car gets a hesitation and you can still drive it for a few miles until the fuel/oil/coolant is mix and there is no more spark and then the car stops, in my case it it happened in less than 2 minutes, and the temp gauge was not even in high, it was at the 3/4 mark.
But now that I fixed the IRCM/CCRM cables the fan works fine!
I'm not going against the experts (you guys) but it seen kind of odd
 
wingzeroac195 said:
code 114 Air Charge Temperature (ACT) sensor – signal voltage is higher or lower than expected.

code 116 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor signal voltage is higher or lower than expected.

so this mean I need to just replace them?
Click to expand...
No. I would swap out your EEC if you have a spare available. If you don't have a spare, you might want to order a refurbd one. Rock Auto has good prices on reman'd EECs.

Here's why...Those 2 sensors happen to no so coincidently tie to the same input circuit chip. When that chip malfunctions, the EEC's computer no longer gets reliable info from either of them. In particular... the EEC can't read the engine temperature and hence will not activate the cooling fan :eek: Just to make matters worse, the EEC will run fuel as if the engine is warming up. This not only runs rich.. always, but will eventually fry the catalytic converters. If you run a KOEO test and the fan runs, then your wiring for the IRCM is working, however that doesn't mean the EEC is 100%.

Anyways, this is my advice from my experience. And of course you know my opinion on HGs.. don't conclude w/o some tangible evidence that they're toasted.

BTW, are you getting fuel pressure at the rails when this happens? Can you hear the fuel pump run?
 
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Yes I can hear the fuel pump running for a couple of seconds.... but now I noticed something, the up arrow in the tachometer lights up when I try to start the car, any ideas?, I will get a EEC to see what happens
 
Pull plug wire to confirm spark.

Check fuel pressure at rail.

If both exist, compression test each cylinder and see if they leak down.
If its the HG one or more plugs will probably smell more like anti f than gas before you even do compression.

Or as Fraser mentioned above...

Paul
 
...upshift light while cranking means you're not getting a crank signal...check the wiring to your crank sensor,sometimes the connections will work loose,are the wires frayed in any way...make sure there's no problem with your balancer...no wobbling...is the crank sensor properly positioned on the balancer....has your tach been acting erractically-indicates that there's a problem with your cam sensor...these all are signs of crank signal problems and are easy to areas to check..........
z
 
So you are talking about the Camshaft Position Sensor?, I have to check that sensor.
 

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