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nickleman60
12-04-2010, 09:04 PM
I closed out the season with my best run ever. I ran an 11.153 @ 120.19 with a 1.53 60'. I only ran one more time before they kicked me off of the track for not having a rollbar, that run was an 11.218 @ 119.42 with a 1.55 60'. Pulling a 1.5 60' feels awesome to say the least, it really throws you back into the seat.

Here's a vid of the 11.218 run, Roadhawg wasn't there yet to film when I ran the 11.153. Silver Mustang in the 1st run is our friend Steve whose car has a 331 turbo, my run is right behind his hence the 1 video...........:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YzCmC5hK4s

Today was the last day that my car will go down the track with the MPx, I think I've done all I can do with it so it's time to move on to bigger and better things.

Mike8675309
12-04-2010, 09:25 PM
congrats on the run. That's hauling for sure.

shoalcracker
12-04-2010, 09:32 PM
Keith

Great season.

After talking it up pre-ShootOut you walked it out till the end.

Congrats- keep it coming

Mods plus cage = 10

Paul

decipha
12-04-2010, 09:39 PM
very nice

so are you thinking turbo / nitrous / whipple ????

whats the game plan ?

fturner
12-04-2010, 10:46 PM
Giving up on the MPX and you haven't even maxed it out yet.....

Shame

Fraser

David Neibert
12-04-2010, 10:58 PM
Keith,

Big CONGRATS !!!

David

PS: I'm also curious what your plans are.

Roadhawg
12-04-2010, 11:15 PM
Everybody had a great day!

Sorry about the rookie camera skills, I am usually in a car.

frdlvr30
12-04-2010, 11:25 PM
Nice run. The Mustang ran good too!

ganuolfthegrey
12-05-2010, 01:54 AM
nice kill on the musturd

1MTNCAT
12-05-2010, 08:44 AM
Way to end the season!! Thats the way to hook it. I beleive you've reached the limits on that set up as well.

On to bigger and better things.

Awesome Job. Congrats!!!! ;)

kenewagner
12-05-2010, 10:24 AM
Awesome time. It is so cool to see fast SCs with V6s kicking but on the track. Great job

Ken

DrFishbone
12-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Congratulations Keith! What are the plans?! I thought you were hard-core M90 all the way! ;):)

Jimmy 2Coupes
12-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Congrat's on the new best. Very impressive.

fturner
12-05-2010, 04:37 PM
Way to end the season!! Thats the way to hook it. I beleive you've reached the limits on that set up as well.

On to bigger and better things.

Awesome Job. Congrats!!!! ;)

I wasn't joking when I said he hasn't reached the limit of the MPX.... he has a way to go with it yet if he's willing to get creative with the inlet track to the blower.

Fraser

Kurt K
12-05-2010, 04:43 PM
Congrats on the great run.

nickleman60
12-05-2010, 04:57 PM
I wasn't joking when I said he hasn't reached the limit of the MPX.... he has a way to go with it yet if he's willing to get creative with the inlet track to the blower.

Fraser

Frazier,
You can keep playing with the MPx, I'm not about to sink anymore money into the current set up. I've reached the goals I wanted with it but with the goals that I have now the MPx will not do the job, it will not let me run 10's on motor, I don't care what you do to the inlet track, outlet track or whatever. I wish you luck with your undertaking.......:)

By the way, my 60' time is launching at an idle of 950 rpm's, no stall converter here........;)

BLOWN38
12-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

neverfastenough
12-06-2010, 12:40 AM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

You act like our turdblows are maxxed out. Bone stock heads on my junk, 17psi too, and 21 degrees of timing. Back yours off to those numbers:p. Whats your plans for next year, us turbo guys have another 100rwhp+ on tap, with out the giggle gas. What was the density altitude on that run?

David Neibert
12-06-2010, 01:28 AM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

Wowser !!! Those are super impressive numbers.

David

rapper33142
12-06-2010, 02:39 AM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:
wow nice man do u have a video and whats your set up

1MTNCAT
12-06-2010, 12:16 PM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

Its about where I expected Chris. And thats probably it. I'd still have liked to have seen the 2-3 shift be where it needed. I feel it could have run a 6 easily enough and almost another MPH.

Needless to say you've maximized the combo just as Keith has with his this year and the efficiency and numbers show it. :D

neverfastenough
"Us turbo guys have another 100rwhp+ on tap, with out the giggle gas. What was the density altitude on that run?"

Don't matter what you got if ya can't put it to the ground. ;) Efficency and automatics. You all will learn one day! Keith is running juice this year but don't know about future plans with it. I KNOW Chris isn't running juice on his set up so those numbers are without nitrous. Not sure what the DA was that day but definately great conditions.

Great Season both of you. Looking forward to seeing them out next year.

nickleman60
12-06-2010, 03:54 PM
10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

Man, you've got that AR screamin', good job. At this rate even with my planned upgrades I'm never going to catch you...............:mad:

BLOWN38
12-06-2010, 04:40 PM
Thanks Guys. Just givin ya crap Corey. I would like to give you a roll race just to see whats up.:D

That N2O is really helping Keith off the line with the 60's, but then the power falls off it seems like by the MPH. He's pullin the same 60 as me.:cool:

DA on my run was about -1478. Its still short shifting 1-2 at 6k. Starts to shift at 5500 the rpms fall a few hundred then pick back up to 6k and then it finally completes the shift. There's prolly still a few hundredths left to drop, maybe it could hit a 10.6x as it sits with a proper 1-2 shift.

I think Keith could get some more out of his if he could log his runs and tweek from there.

I'm gonna get a 4.0 whipple and stick it on the car for next year. I got it all figured out how to mount it. Just gotta get it built.:D Its gonna be crazy to have a blower with more air moving cap than the motor.:cool:

Don't have any video's this time. If you look on blown38's youtube page you'll see a 10.84 run.

David Neibert
12-06-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm gonna get a 4.0 whipple and stick it on the car for next year. I got it all figured out how to mount it. Just gotta get it built. Its gonna be crazy to have a blower with more air moving cap than the motor.


Wow ! Can't wait to see how you fit that on top of a 3.8.

David

Ira R.
12-06-2010, 05:15 PM
Hell of a year guys. One hell of a year.....

Ira

frdlvr30
12-06-2010, 05:35 PM
Man, you've got that AR screamin', good job. At this rate even with my planned upgrades I'm never going to catch you...............:mad:

With the upgrades planned....I disagree with this statement. I do think it would be wise to buy a laptop and other required equipment to tweek it ourselves. Seems to be helping Chris a ton....10.7 without the bottle! Congrats Chris!!!

frdlvr30
12-06-2010, 05:42 PM
Thanks Guys. Just givin ya crap Corey. I would like to give you a roll race just to see whats up.:D

That N2O is really helping Keith off the line with the 60's, but then the power falls off it seems like by the MPH. He's pullin the same 60 as me.:cool:

DA on my run was about -1478. Its still short shifting 1-2 at 6k. Starts to shift at 5500 the rpms fall a few hundred then pick back up to 6k and then it finally completes the shift. There's prolly still a few hundredths left to drop, maybe it could hit a 10.6x as it sits with a proper 1-2 shift.

I think Keith could get some more out of his if he could log his runs and tweek from there.

I'm gonna get a 4.0 whipple and stick it on the car for next year. I got it all figured out how to mount it. Just gotta get it built.:D Its gonna be crazy to have a blower with more air moving cap than the motor.:cool:

Don't have any video's this time. If you look on blown38's youtube page you'll see a 10.84 run.

I dont see the point in a 4.0 whipple. The engine will never be able to move that much air? A 5.4L GT500 with twice as many valves and three more cams has a hard time maxing it out. Not to mention the heads flow about 40% better...are you serious here?

ricardoa1
12-06-2010, 05:44 PM
Chris is a mad man. But I am not sure how this will ever fit.
The one next to it is a 2.3L I its already big enough.




http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/Mach1Marauder/SUPERCHARGERS/fdb18cd7.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/Mach1Marauder/SUPERCHARGERS/f85eaadb.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/Mach1Marauder/SUPERCHARGERS/32fba075.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h303/Mach1Marauder/SUPERCHARGERS/85499cc9.jpg

BLOWN38
12-06-2010, 09:24 PM
I have a big cowl hood!;)

frdlvr30
12-06-2010, 10:30 PM
I guess that will end the need for a bigger blower.....forever! I know you can do it....just wondering if you were serious.

ganuolfthegrey
12-06-2010, 10:37 PM
just get the kenny bell 2.8 mammoth kit

David Neibert
12-06-2010, 11:33 PM
just get the kenny bell 2.8 mammoth kit

KB doesn't sell loose blowers and components to let you build your own kit, you have to buy their entire kit unless you are upgrading a previous kit you bought from them. Whipple is much easier to work with and will sell you whatever blower, snout, pulley and other componets you want seperately. That's one of the reasons I've got a 2.3 Whipple instead of a 2.1 KB big bore. I'm glad I went with the Whipple.

David

David Neibert
12-07-2010, 01:18 PM
I think the Whipple 175AX 2.9 liter blower will be difficult enough to fit and moves more CFM than a 3.8 SC motor could ever use. It's the same width as the 2.3, but it's 58 mm longer.

David

kenewagner
12-07-2010, 01:57 PM
KB doesn't sell loose blowers and components to let you build your own kit, you have to buy their entire kit unless you are upgrading a previous kit you bought from them. Whipple is much easier to work with and will sell you whatever blower, snout, pulley and other componets you want seperately. That's one of the reasons I've got a 2.3 Whipple instead of a 2.1 KB big bore. I'm glad I went with the Whipple.

David

I am very happy with the Whipple:D

Ken

David Neibert
12-07-2010, 04:12 PM
Chris,

Have you seen these fuel rails ? Say they fit all 3.8 motors except supercoupe, but I'm assuming that means a stock SC.

http://www.moranav6racing.com/category.html?CategoryID=45

David

Mike8675309
12-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Not to throw too much of a wrench in the thoughts, but consider the following. Bill Gates never figured we'd ever need more than 640k of memory.

There can be a significant advantage to under-driving a blower depending on the optimal operating envelope of the blower. Remember with a positive displacement blower, you will make boost with anything above the total amount of air the engine can consume in a crankshaft revolution. I'd need to take a look at some blower charts for their operating envelopes. But my expectation is that you will gain a larger optimal operating range by having a larger blower that you can under drive slightly vs always having to overdrive a blower.

Certainly packaging larger blowers becomes an issue. But those taking up such projects are likely not too concerned over that, otherwise they wouldn't bother.

And finally, it would probably be easier to just put a properly sized turbo on it. (I figured I'd say it before someone else did).

kenewagner
12-07-2010, 05:16 PM
And finally, it would probably be easier to just put a properly sized turbo on it. (I figured I'd say it before someone else did).

Corey will be so disappointed you beat him to the punch;)

Ken

XR7 Dave
12-07-2010, 06:07 PM
Seems like people are always enamored with that which they do not have. Cory likes his turbo, but I haven't seen anything from the turbo crowd that particularly impresses me. Chris Wise's car ran 10.60's vs. Chris Vining's 10.70's but Vining's car is all bolt on parts (and it's a 3.8L), he didn't have to fabricate anything other than some intercooler tubes. Think about that one for a moment....

Roadhawg
12-07-2010, 06:45 PM
Think about that one for a moment....

Dave, I know you understand the reason behind his success. Chris V. meticulously went through his setup and dialed it in. He did not just throw some parts at it and settle with the initial results. A lot of people expect instant gratification and do not understand cause and effect.

XR7 Dave
12-07-2010, 08:09 PM
Dave, I know you understand the reason behind his success. Chris V. meticulously went through his setup and dialed it in. He did not just throw some parts at it and settle with the initial results. A lot of people expect instant gratification and do not understand cause and effect.

Same applies to any turbo setup, only the difference is its even more difficult to properly set up a turbo. I wouldn't say Chris Wise just threw things together either. He had a very nice C4 with high stall converter and trans brake, he had a 4.2L with some of the best single port heads ever done, he had a top tier cam and valvetrain, a properly matched turbo, 25psi, race fuel, and his car was significantly lighter than a normal SC. Could his car have gone faster? Certainly. Cory's car can go faster too. I only use Vining as an example because he doesn't have anything special on his car. He has all regular parts available to everyone else. Granted the AR is a little hard to come by these days but that is going to change soon enough, although that is hardly the point of my post.

The point of my post is simply to say that while it is typically fact that a turbo will make 50-100hp more than a supercharger, that doesn't make the car faster. Sure, if you line them up side by side at just the right speed, under just the right conditions, that the 50-100hp advantage will help the turbo pull away, but in conditions where it matters the difference is narrowed significantly.

People right now seem eager to jump ship when the potential of the supercharger is just starting to be realized. Ask a new GT500 owner which is more fun, a 900rwhp supercharged car or a 1000rwhp turbo.

CMac89
12-07-2010, 09:51 PM
Vining ran at a track that is 1500 feet below sea level in DA. Wise ran at a track that normally possesses 1500 feet above sea level. In a mid-to-high ten second car, you can account for around 1.2 tenths of a second per thousand feet of DA. Once you have a ten second car, you don't start running quicker times with simple modifications. It will start taking 10+ rwhp to gain one tenth. That increases as the car gets faster.

Also, the C4 does not matter, if it wasn't built to favor the drag strip. There are very few high performance transmission specialists that utilize unstandardized tricks to increase the efficiency of a C4; therefore, the converter speed, multiple, size, stator, and so on, are most likely unsatisfactory for Wise's car. Vining's tranny/converter could be a more communicable setup for his motor than Wise's.

Try to stay away from too many specifics. If you look at things arbitrarily, then they come into perspective quickly. A car makes X amount of HP, and X amount of RPM (same goes for boost.) The idea is to operate a motor in its boost/HP range and keep it there. It doesn't matter if it's a turbo, blower, or baby Jesus is farting into your intake, if the motors make the same hp, they're accelerating the same.

Supercharged/NA cars just happen to be a lot easier at arriving to the sweet spot of the setup. With a turbo car, it takes more work. I switched because it wont be boring and will always be a battle worth fighting for. People that got what they wanted, easily, died of AIDS.

Some may not be impressed because the cards are still in their original boxes. I know of a few ponies that can't be touched, though.:)

Awesome times, guys. I can't wait to see what the 3.4 Whipple will do!

super red91
12-07-2010, 11:00 PM
Congrats guys, I can't believe the times these cars are running for something that could be daily driven...that's what makes it impressive to me.

On another note you're all a bunch of HP haters!!! :p

David Neibert
12-08-2010, 12:47 AM
On another note you're all a bunch of HP haters!!! :p

Not me, I love the turbocharged HP just as much as the supercharged HP :cool:

David

nickleman60
12-08-2010, 08:52 AM
If the turblow cars would just make it down the track without breaking then we would have some numbers to compare with..........:rolleyes:

XR7 Dave
12-08-2010, 09:16 AM
Vining ran at a track that is 1500 feet below sea level in DA. Wise ran at a track that normally possesses 1500 feet above sea level. In a mid-to-high ten second car, you can account for around 1.2 tenths of a second per thousand feet of DA. Once you have a ten second car, you don't start running quicker times with simple modifications. It will start taking 10+ rwhp to gain one tenth. That increases as the car gets faster.

Also, the C4 does not matter, if it wasn't built to favor the drag strip. There are very few high performance transmission specialists that utilize unstandardized tricks to increase the efficiency of a C4; therefore, the converter speed, multiple, size, stator, and so on, are most likely unsatisfactory for Wise's car. Vining's tranny/converter could be a more communicable setup for his motor than Wise's.

Try to stay away from too many specifics. If you look at things arbitrarily, then they come into perspective quickly. A car makes X amount of HP, and X amount of RPM (same goes for boost.) The idea is to operate a motor in its boost/HP range and keep it there. It doesn't matter if it's a turbo, blower, or baby Jesus is farting into your intake, if the motors make the same hp, they're accelerating the same.

Supercharged/NA cars just happen to be a lot easier at arriving to the sweet spot of the setup. With a turbo car, it takes more work. I switched because it wont be boring and will always be a battle worth fighting for. People that got what they wanted, easily, died of AIDS.

Some may not be impressed because the cards are still in their original boxes. I know of a few ponies that can't be touched, though.:)

Awesome times, guys. I can't wait to see what the 3.4 Whipple will do!

I think you are missing the point. Looking at the audience that you have here, you have people running well below their potential with a supercharger thinking that if only they bolted on a turbo suddenly they'd run 100hp worth quicker than they do now. My point is that this is not likely going to be the case because it is much harder to optimize a turbo setup than it is to optimize a supercharger setup. While Cory and Ryan both clocked 500+rwhp on the dyno, they are both running 400rwhp+ times. Not to take anything away from either one, but if it were that easy they would be much faster. Vining's efforts just serve to demonstrate how much most people are leaving on the table. His car is hardly a drag strip queen and it incorporates literally off-the-shelf parts.

super red91
12-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I believe another major item is the manual vs auto. Pretty much all of the fastest supercharged cars are auto. Therefore they dyno less, but generally perform better at the track. As everyone knows the three turbo cars are all stick, which will net higher HP than a similary equipped auto car. With the turbo cars being high HP stick cars, they are no doubt harder to take down the track. Ignoring the fact of auto vs. manual, it would seem that the supercharged cars are outperforming the turbo cars. No doubt they currently are, but I know this will change in time.

Another point that also seems to be ignored is "tweaking" time on different setups. How long has the sc been supercharged? How many years have people been modifying sc's with the supercharger? How many passes do the top sc guys have on there setups? No one just goes out and runs there best e.t. first time out. It takes time and adjustments to have a setup perform at its peak. That being said obviously the turbo sc is a pretty new thing.

Myself - 5 passes on the old 3.8 setup, 5 on the new 4.2
Corey - 4 total passes, 2 of these being a supra
Casey - 0

This comes to a whopping 9 total passes for 3 cars. It's only a matter of time before these things become faster and faster. I personally like this turbo vs. sc war that has been developing. It makes people more competitive which in return will only help our community make faster cars.

On another note, I will not put an auto in my car :p.

kenewagner
12-08-2010, 10:48 AM
I believe another major item is the manual vs auto. Pretty much all of the fastest supercharged cars are auto. Therefore they dyno less, but generally perform better at the track. As everyone knows the three turbo cars are all stick, which will net higher HP than a similary equipped auto car. With the turbo cars being high HP stick cars, they are no doubt harder to take down the track. Ignoring the fact of auto vs. manual, it would seem that the supercharged cars are outperforming the turbo cars. No doubt they currently are, but I know this will change in time.

Another point that also seems to be ignored is "tweaking" time on different setups. How long has the sc been supercharged? How many years have people been modifying sc's with the supercharger? How many passes do the top sc guys have on there setups? No one just goes out and runs there best e.t. first time out. It takes time and adjustments to have a setup perform at its peak. That being said obviously the turbo sc is a pretty new thing.

Myself - 5 passes on the old 3.8 setup, 5 on the new 4.2
Corey - 6 total passes, correct me if I'm wrong
Casey - 0

This comes to a whopping 11 total passes for 3 cars. It's only a matter of time before these things become faster and faster. I personally like this turbo vs. sc war that has been developing. It makes people more competitive which in return will only help our community make faster cars.

On another note, I will not put an auto in my car :p.

I think you are very accurate on your accessment here. I have a certain member here who runs an manual, makes about the same rwhp as myself but is slower by a bunch:D We go back and forth about HP and ETs in E mails. The autos are king, for now. The superchargers are king for ETs, for now. You guys just need to get your stuff dialed in. For now cory should change the bottom of his post to read "Can turbo cars walk all over blower cars SOMEDAY, we can only hope";):D:D:D

Ken

Kurt K
12-08-2010, 11:08 AM
Horsepower numbers don't mean anything. I've never dyno'd over 365rwhp with my current setup :o, but apparently I've got 400+ rwhp times.

edit: to be fair, I did make 358 rwhp on a Mustang dyno, so I'm probably in the 380 range.

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 12:00 PM
Im not going to count the runs where my 2 step wasnt working, since well its just a joke. . Full boost 2 step passes for me has been 2, no 2step I also made 2. and there was the cv shaft break at the shootout for another pass attempt. The car is no where near dialed in, the 2 full boost passes were wheel spin rev limiter madness. These runs were also done with AFR's in the 10.0's for the whole pass, so was my dyno pull. Keith and Vining hit the track more in a month than I have in my life. They both have their cars pretty well setup, Keith I know also has weight reduction also. The best track prepared turbo car is casey's. I couldnt care less about the track normally, but you guys keep asking for a turbo car to prove itself there. Maybe Ill drop some weight, get some new slicks and front runners and give it a go. If our drivetrains hold up, watch out. And Ken, it will walk your car. Cant talk smack when the tracks are closed

David Neibert
12-08-2010, 12:02 PM
I expect to see much better 60 ft times from both my cars in 2011, because of the new convertors each car is getting. I also expect the larger turbine housing on the 93 SC (.96 AR vs .81 AR) and the larger Throttle Body and air intake system on the 91 SC, to increase power on both cars.

The biggest challenge for me, will be learning to do my own tuning on both cars. I think having the ability to collect data and adjust the tune at the track to take full advantage of the weather conditions or what type fuel you have in the tank is a big key to how Chris Vinning was able to pull away from the pack.

Seeing what guys like Kurt K and Chris V are able to do with less power than I've got under the hood, is making me think I should concentrate more on making better use of the power I've already got instead of constantly trying to add more.

David

nickleman60
12-08-2010, 12:35 PM
Keith and Vining hit the track more in a month than I have in my life. They both have their cars pretty well setup, Keith I know also has weight reduction also.

Corey, I have been hitting the track alot lately and I feel my skills have defintely improved. My car with both seats in it weighs 3700 lbs. (3660 lbs. with 1 seat) and 3920 lbs. (3880 lbs. with 1 seat) with me in it. This debate really doesn't include me because I'm running a MPx with a 100 shot of nitrous, this discussion is about AR's/Whipples vs Turbos and running on motor only. Come next year though I will be included in this discussion........;)

super red91
12-08-2010, 12:45 PM
Corey, I have been hitting the track alot lately and I feel my skills have defintely improved. My car with both seats in it weighs 3700 lbs. (3660 lbs. with 1 seat) and 3920 lbs. (3880 lbs. with 1 seat) with me in it. This debate really doesn't include me because I'm running a MPx with a 100 shot of nitrous, this discussion is about AR's/Whipples vs Turbos and running on motor only. Come next year though I will be included in this discussion........;)

Ooooo no you don't escape this...you still have a fast supercharged car :)

XR7 Dave
12-08-2010, 12:53 PM
And Ken, it will walk your car. Cant talk smack when the tracks are closed

A lot of confidence here, and a little veiled anger/frustration it seems. Being able to "walk" someone's car is a rather subjective statement when it comes down to it. With an AOD you can't go WOT in OD, so when talking to people with an AOD, you'll have to talk about something between 0-125mph. So what will it be, 70-125 or 0-70 or the whole range? How about something in between? Can the AOD choose the parameters or you are going to insist that he run you only in the rpms you can hook up and in the gears you want to run in? You think you can walk him 70-125mph? Maybe you can but I wouldn't be so sure if you haven't tried.

No one has said that 500rwhp isn't more than 400rwhp. What has been suggested is that power via a turbo is more difficult to get to the ground than via a supercharger, and within the realm of reasonable speed (0-125mph) I said that you'll find it quite difficult to make up much if any ground in that time even with 100 extra rwhp.

I stand by that statement and I think you'll have the opportunity to see my point made after the snow melts.

kenewagner
12-08-2010, 12:59 PM
If our drivetrains hold up, watch out. And Ken, it will walk your car. Cant talk smack when the tracks are closed

I think you guys will be really fast next year. It takes time to dial it all in;) Just remember, the supercharger guys are all making even more improvements as well so the ante is going higher. I only ran 6 runs on my setup so I have much to dial in as well. There are more mods going on this winter to run even faster. Im sure on the street and on a roll you are king but to go fast at the strip means real low 60 foot times as well as a huge top end. Look forward to racing your beast next year;):D and I do mean that as a compliment

Ken

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 01:02 PM
I can go from many different speeds. Hooking isnt only a turbo issue. Ive seen zimmerly try to play. His Junk lights the tires up 60 and below also. Ken I look forward to running your car next year also. Im sure it will be even faster. I have work to do.

rzimmerl
12-08-2010, 01:41 PM
I stand by that statement and I think you'll have the opportunity to see my point made after the snow melts.

That will most likely happen, since we'll be doing some road tuning and possibly finish up with a dyno session at Kevin's in the spring.

rzimmerl
12-08-2010, 01:58 PM
I can go from many different speeds. Hooking isnt only a turbo issue. Ive seen zimmerly try to play. His Junk lights the tires up 60 and below also.

Most of that I think is due to my converter. I made about 8 passes with the setup this year only at the shootout, so some skills need to be learned in order to keep up with the east coast crew thats been kicking butt all year long, good job guys impressive, indeed.:D

XR7 Dave
12-08-2010, 02:06 PM
I can go from many different speeds. Hooking isnt only a turbo issue. Ive seen zimmerly try to play. His Junk lights the tires up 60 and below also.I'm not sure what your point is. That one can outpull the other while spinning the tires? Seems rather subjective to me. :p It takes a lot of HP to overcome a 1-2 car deficit. Ask any ricer how that works out. :eek:

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. That one can outpull the other while spinning the tires? Seems rather subjective to me. :p It takes a lot of HP to overcome a 1-2 car deficit. Ask any ricer how that works out. :eek:

What Im saying is, i dont think there will be a 1-2 car deficit. Why would there be?

rzimmerl
12-08-2010, 03:12 PM
What Im saying is, i dont think there will be a 1-2 car deficit. Why would there be?

Because that's what a supercharged car will have on you as soon as they hit the throttle into boost while your turblow makes that funny whinning sound to finally build boost if starting a low speed or RPM's.

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 04:44 PM
Has no one heard of brake boosting before? Ill be at almost full boost before the 3rd honk.

XR7 Dave
12-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Has no one heard of brake boosting before? Ill be at almost full boost before the 3rd honk.

Brake boosting assumes you are street racing in a straight line, and assumes that I'd give you 3 honks. Get real. :rolleyes: You are sounding more like a ricer all the time. ;) Wanna street race? How bout we play in traffic (theoretically of course). I'd kill your turblow. :D

David Neibert
12-08-2010, 05:09 PM
Has no one heard of brake boosting before? Ill be at almost full boost before the 3rd honk.

Corey,

That's a ricer trick that isn't needed if you've got your junk setup right. If I'm at or above 3500 rpms, mine spools the turbo as quick as I can press the gas pedal. With the new 3500 rpm converter, I'll be able to spool it even quicker. Doesn't really matter, because the tires just spin unless I've got slicks on the car.

David

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 05:10 PM
You mean youd be acting like the ricer, running up on me, giving a little rev and taking off before I can even get it into the right gear:p and calling it a win. And if I started to come around, youd hit the brakes:p. And who would street race a sc through turns? Starting to sound the sti guy that wanted to run me in the rain.:rolleyes:

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 05:17 PM
Corey,

That's a ricer trick that isn't needed if you've got your junk setup right. If I'm at or above 3500 rpms, mine spools the turbo as quick as I can press the gas pedal. With the new 3500 rpm converter, I'll be able to spool it even quicker. Doesn't really matter, because the tires just spin unless I've got slicks on the car.

David

I cant see how it can be called a ricer trick with stuff that isnt setup right. titan motorsports and boost logic, as well as other big names were racing their supras on the street at texas supra meet. They were brake boosting like it was their job. And Im pretty sure a company like theirs has their junk setup right. Guys with purpose built turbo cars to street race dont normally have 347ci. They are v6's or smaller mod v8's with very large turbos. If your calling brake boosting a ricer trick, your transbrake is worse than a fart can and some stickers.

Roadhawg
12-08-2010, 05:31 PM
a fart can and some stickers.

Sounds like you have learned some new tricks, for even more horsepower.

ricardoa1
12-08-2010, 05:59 PM
Corey. I was in your car and I was impressed. Aside from lag all was good. If you are happy, then great. You are a black sheep, sort it out first and let the car do the talking.

Bench racing will just get peoples feeling hurt.

Good job Keith and Chris.

David Neibert
12-08-2010, 06:05 PM
I cant see how it can be called a ricer trick with stuff that isnt setup right. titan motorsports and boost logic, as well as other big names were racing their supras on the street at texas supra meet. They were brake boosting like it was their job. And Im pretty sure a company like theirs has their junk setup right. Guys with purpose built turbo cars to street race dont normally have 347ci. They are v6's or smaller mod v8's with very large turbos. If your calling brake boosting a ricer trick, your transbrake is worse than a fart can and some stickers.

Are these are the same 1000 rwhp 3.0 liter Supra guys that only run 12s ?

David

frdlvr30
12-08-2010, 07:02 PM
I expect to see much better 60 ft times from both my cars in 2011, because of the new convertors each car is getting. I also expect the larger turbine housing on the 93 SC (.96 AR vs .81 AR) and the larger Throttle Body and air intake system on the 91 SC, to increase power on both cars.



Seeing what guys like Kurt K and Chris V are able to do with less power than I've got under the hood, is making me think I should concentrate more on making better use of the power I've already got instead of constantly trying to add more.

David

I think.....Actually....I know you are on to something here. Logging and tweaking are where it is at. What I was suggesting earlier in this thread.

neverfastenough
12-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Are these are the same 1000 rwhp 3.0 liter Supra guys that only run 12s ?

David

No, 8's

Corey

CMac89
12-08-2010, 11:15 PM
I think you are missing the point. Looking at the audience that you have here, you have people running well below their potential with a supercharger thinking that if only they bolted on a turbo suddenly they'd run 100hp worth quicker than they do now. My point is that this is not likely going to be the case because it is much harder to optimize a turbo setup than it is to optimize a supercharger setup. While Cory and Ryan both clocked 500+rwhp on the dyno, they are both running 400rwhp+ times. Not to take anything away from either one, but if it were that easy they would be much faster. Vining's efforts just serve to demonstrate how much most people are leaving on the table. His car is hardly a drag strip queen and it incorporates literally off-the-shelf parts.

I hear an echo.:)

I was covering a vast majority of points. One of them which was the comparison of Vining versus Wise's car. I won't get in on a three versus 21323542341324234 debate, but, like I did state, there are ways to make the turbo car work. It isn't necessarily hard if you're a guy that understands thermodynamics. All of the parts are widely available whether it be for the street or the strip.

Corey had tuning/driving problems and Ryan's problem doesn't have anything to do with lagging. Ryan has a small turbo and doesn't use enough RPM to be efficient for the drag strip. Another problem is that the M5R2 has a terrible gear set, unless if you gear it to launch in second. Who knows, maybe I'll try it. And for the last time, autos are not better than manual transmissions. It just so coincidentally happens to be that the gAyOD is better than the M5RJew.

Seems like some people are assuming that a roll race would start at 2500 RPM or something. Once the motor's sitting in the RPM range for spooling, then it will perform well enough.

1MTNCAT
12-09-2010, 10:04 AM
No, 8's

Corey

Yeah in a 2500 lb car!!! :)

1MTNCAT
12-09-2010, 10:18 AM
I believe another major item is the manual vs auto. Pretty much all of the fastest supercharged cars are auto. Therefore they dyno less, but generally perform better at the track. As everyone knows the three turbo cars are all stick, which will net higher HP than a similary equipped auto car. With the turbo cars being high HP stick cars, they are no doubt harder to take down the track. Ignoring the fact of auto vs. manual, it would seem that the supercharged cars are outperforming the turbo cars. No doubt they currently are, but I know this will change in time.

Another point that also seems to be ignored is "tweaking" time on different setups. How long has the sc been supercharged? How many years have people been modifying sc's with the supercharger? How many passes do the top sc guys have on there setups? No one just goes out and runs there best e.t. first time out. It takes time and adjustments to have a setup perform at its peak. That being said obviously the turbo sc is a pretty new thing.

Myself - 5 passes on the old 3.8 setup, 5 on the new 4.2
Corey - 4 total passes, 2 of these being a supra

Casey - 0This comes to a whopping 9 total passes for 3 cars. It's only a matter of time before these things become faster and faster. I personally like this turbo vs. sc war that has been developing. It makes people more competitive which in return will only help our community make faster cars.

On another note, I will not put an auto in my car :p.

1. Whose fault is it that you have only made 9 passes between you? 2. Why have you only made 9 passes between you? 3. 3. You have to run them and tune them for them to be their best. They will never get a whole lot faster till you deal with the manual/drivetrain breakage due to the manual and the shock to the drivetrain period. These cars and IRS are not set up for that kind of abuse in horsepower/weight. Period.

That said, I'm not bashing power output with your cars. I'd say its rather impressive actually. But the auto SC cars will be busting all your asses, big HP or not till you get the other issues resolved, if you even can get them resolved without going to a live axle set up or auto combo's that may or may not hold under that load.

You said you will not be putting an auto in your car. So be it. You'll be constantly fixing broken parts. That's your choice too!

Just stating it like it truly is. :)

super red91
12-09-2010, 01:06 PM
1. It's no ones fault.

2. My car was not put back together this year until late summer. I drove it as a daily drive for about 1K miles and only took it to the track once before the shootout. I'm sorry I don't have more miles and track passes?

Casey's car ran right for the VERY first time at the shootout so he should not even be involved in this conversation.

Corey also spent some time getting his junk together and also bascially just daily drove the car alot.

3.I know you have to run them and tune them to optimize the setup, I said this earlier? Yes manual cars will generally break more ~~~~ than an auto, comes with the territory. I don't know where all this "all these turbo cars do is break" comes from?

Myself - slave cylinder went out this year at the shooout. I consider this something that could happen to anyone with a manual, I doubt my turbo specifically broke this.

Corey - Halfshaft. Once again any sc from stock to high HP could accomplish this.

Casey - Owned a stock clutch. Put a stock clutch against any type of 600+ hp (n/a, nitrous, sc, etc...) and see what happens.

If all I wanted to do was go down the track and make the best e.t. possible I would gut my car, put an auto in it and be done. I however enjoy driving my car on the street and a 5spd its more fun, hell I SERIOUSLY enjoy nothing more than a wicked, nasty, violent, stick car launch at the track.

I apologize now to anyone that is offended by my supercoupe being turbocharged and also having a 5 speed transmission behind it :rolleyes:

kenewagner
12-09-2010, 01:19 PM
I apologize now to anyone that is offended by my supercoupe being turbocharged and also having a 5 speed transmission behind it :rolleyes:


That is so funny:D:D Turbo vs Supercharger, manual vs auto always will be debates. Makes for fun reading and great sarcasm. Perfectly said:D

Ken

nickleman60
12-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Hopefully by next years Shootout, all of the really fast supercharged and turbo cars will be ready to rumble and then maybe......just maybe we'll have a REAL Shootout. I for one plan on running lowwww 10's so everyone better be ready....................;)

XR7 Dave
12-09-2010, 01:36 PM
I was the one who started this by putting out a challenge of 400rwhp supercharged vs. 500rwhp turbocharged. Then Cory got all butt hurt and it has deteriorated from there. I don't even know where the thing got so far off track.

For comparison, Ken ran 11.6's on a combination with less passes than any of you. His car has never been tuned at all because he car refuses to allow any sort of datalogging or tuning device on it! It has not made even one successful dyno pull during attempted tuning.

There are a lot of BS things in this thread but none of it warrants getting upset about. I just put out a challenge and then tried to explain a little where I was coming from and it has gone downhill from there. Clearly my explanation didn't make any sense so I have dropped it.

Personally I think that when a turbo car makes a noteworthy pass, the owner should start their own thread rather than making a train wreck out of someone else's. But then again SCCOA is famous for trainwrecks. ;)

CMac89
12-09-2010, 01:45 PM
There are always people that can't draw a line between a debate and an argument.

I think it's fun. The birdy sites have been boring for a while now except for a few impressive ETs popping up here and there.

I'm here to plaaaaayyyy.

BLOWN38
12-09-2010, 02:49 PM
There are always people that can't draw a line between a debate and an argument.

I think it's fun. The birdy sites have been boring for a while now except for a few impressive ETs popping up here and there.

I'm here to plaaaaayyyy.

I agree.

I'm sorry I killed your thread Keith. It is fun. This thread has got the butt hurt juices flowing so noone sits still to long this winter.:D

I want a turbo car to get there crap together so I can spank em next year.:) It's a shame Wise sold his car. I would liked to have seen him tweek it some more and get it really cookin. Hopefully the new owner will bring it out to play.

It takes time to get the setup right. My car has been a long time in the making. Just gotta get out there and correct what ya got and upgrade what isn't gonna work right. I hope one of you manual guys gets a better manual in them. After driving Ira's car those trans' are a joke at high revs.

I hope I get everything I want to get done by the spring. But should definatly be done by the shootout.

notime
12-09-2010, 03:35 PM
[QUOTE=BLOWN38;920721]I agree.

I want a turbo car to get there crap together so I can spank em next year.:) It's a shame Wise sold his car. I would liked to have seen him tweek it some more and get it really cookin. Hopefully the new owner will bring it out to play.

I plan on it.

neverfastenough
12-09-2010, 04:05 PM
I was the one who started this by putting out a challenge of 400rwhp supercharged vs. 500rwhp turbocharged.

No you didnt, wrong forum..........but since its now over here, ill take that challenge come spring time if you have a car that runs:p oh, can we make it 600rwhp turbo vs 500rwhp sc car, if one can ever get there:p:eek: 5spd vs 5spd

nickleman60
12-09-2010, 04:12 PM
can we make it 600rwhp turbo vs 500rwhp sc car, if one can ever get there:p:eek: 5spd vs 5spd

I plan on having a 600 rwhp supercharged car, I'll be there..............but with an auto.........;)

BLOWN38
12-09-2010, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=BLOWN38;920721]I agree.

I want a turbo car to get there crap together so I can spank em next year.:) It's a shame Wise sold his car. I would liked to have seen him tweek it some more and get it really cookin. Hopefully the new owner will bring it out to play.

I plan on it.

glad you're following this thread and any others. glad you didn't just get the car and run.

BLOWN38
12-09-2010, 04:18 PM
I plan on having a 600 rwhp supercharged car, I'll be there..............but with an auto.........;)

woe there nelly! thats some big talk there now. gonna jump 120 horse on a blower swap minus nitrous? or you planning juice too?

neverfastenough
12-09-2010, 04:23 PM
woe there nelly! thats some big talk there now. gonna jump 120 horse on a blower swap minus nitrous? or you planning juice too?

Hes stuck on the bottle. I heard you have to wean babies off those things:eek::p:p:p:p

nickleman60
12-09-2010, 04:24 PM
woe there nelly! thats some big talk there now. gonna jump 120 horse on a blower swap minus nitrous? or you planning juice too?

You should know me by now Chris, what do you think?

nickleman60
12-09-2010, 04:25 PM
Hes stuck on the bottle. I heard you have to wean babies off those things:eek::p:p:p:p

When I leave you in the dust you'll be lining up the juice for yours..........:p

neverfastenough
12-09-2010, 04:28 PM
When I leave you in the dust you'll be lining up the juice for yours..........:p

Id send cv shafts to the MOON!

kenewagner
12-09-2010, 04:44 PM
Internet, smack talk racing at its finest:rolleyes::D:D:D:D

Ken

nickleman60
12-09-2010, 05:58 PM
Internet, smack talk racing at its finest:rolleyes::D:D:D:D

Ken

Ken,
I can BS just as good as the next guy.........but 600 rwhp is my goal with juice.......:eek:

Roadhawg
12-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Ken,
I can BS just as good as the next guy.........but 600 rwhp is my goal with juice.......:eek:


Hmmm ..... I traded my Nitrous system for a Fox Mustang, no juice for me. LOL

David Neibert
12-10-2010, 12:51 AM
No you didnt, wrong forum..........but since its now over here, ill take that challenge come spring time if you have a car that runs:p oh, can we make it 600rwhp turbo vs 500rwhp sc car, if one can ever get there:p:eek: 5spd vs 5spd

Corey,

I'm bringing my turbo SC too, and will be looking forward to racing against some of these high powered supercharged cars.

David

nickleman60
12-10-2010, 10:53 AM
Corey,

I'm bringing my turbo SC too, and will be looking forward to racing against some of these high powered supercharged cars.

David

You should give Lazzo a run for his money with your turbo 93 SC.

David Neibert
12-10-2010, 12:44 PM
You should give Lazzo a run for his money with your turbo 93 SC.

I certianly hope so.

David

David Neibert
12-14-2010, 06:41 PM
Me too;) 10.740 at 126.83 and a 10.749 at 127.68... i'm out done for the year.:) Carry on turblows.:eek:

Chris,

What all have you changed since the Shootout when you were running 11.10 @ 124 ?

David

BLOWN38
12-14-2010, 11:17 PM
Chris,

What all have you changed since the Shootout when you were running 11.10 @ 124 ?

David

Took the seats out;) and tweeked the shift points, MAF transfer, rescaled the rpm range for the spark table out to 6500 and added some timing. Good air and great track prep!:cool: Was runnin about 24psi in the cold air. EDIT: Oh yeah and the 4k stall converter, Thanks Dirty Dog :END EDIT

Still need to figure out why 1-2 shifts at 6k instead of 6500. My oil press and coolant temp gauges quit working and the blower motor runs full blast now, need to figure out whats going on there.

Been trying to get it to start cold better, it still needs more playin with. Also seems like my IAC doesn't function right, that maybe some of the problem. Gonna check grounds and add some too. I'm gonna put the QH on my 94 and see whats spose to be happening on a properly functioning stock car. But DANG its cold right now... I don't wanna do anything.:(

David Neibert
12-15-2010, 12:28 AM
Took the seats out;) and tweeked the shift points, MAF transfer, rescaled the rpm range for the spark table out to 6500 and added some timing. Good air and great track prep!:cool: Was runnin about 24psi in the cold air. EDIT: Oh yeah and the 4k stall converter, Thanks Dirty Dog :END EDIT

Still need to figure out why 1-2 shifts at 6k instead of 6500. My oil press and coolant temp gauges quit working and the blower motor runs full blast now, need to figure out whats going on there.

Been trying to get it to start cold better, it still needs more playin with. Also seems like my IAC doesn't function right, that maybe some of the problem. Gonna check grounds and add some too. I'm gonna put the QH on my 94 and see whats spose to be happening on a properly functioning stock car. But DANG its cold right now... I don't wanna do anything.:(

Chris,

Thanks for the info. Just have a few more questions. How much spark were you able to run and what kind of fuel were you using ? What was your target A/F ratio ?

David

BLOWN38
12-15-2010, 11:00 AM
Added 1 degree in the upper range above 6k. I'll have to look at the log but I think it came in alittle before 6k. 27 total. I have meth injection single 625ml jet and vp 103 in the tank. Target AFR is 11.6

I may have tried more timing but the track caught on to my shananigans.

nickleman60
12-15-2010, 12:19 PM
I may have tried more timing but the track caught on to my shananigans.

At least I wasn't the only one kicked off...............:D

kenewagner
12-15-2010, 12:54 PM
We the SC community are proud of you guys, shananigans or not;) All very impressive times:cool:

Ken

Mike8675309
12-15-2010, 01:30 PM
Don't forget you can find yourself a chassis dyno shop and strap the puppy down to do some fine tuning of the timing and fueling curves. Bring along a portable weather station (http://www.biondoracing.com/WeatherStations.shtml) and optimize for power while logging the weather. No one will kick you off, and you can focus on the whole curve and see smaller impacts.

Make sure it is a friendly shop, and their dyno is good for high wheel speeds so you can wring it out like the track. the type of dyno won't matter much if you are doing full runs. Though a loaded dyno like a mustang unit may benefit you if you want to dial in part throttle behavior.

Then, on another day where the weather is what you consider the worst, do another session. Dial things in there, see how the weather impacts your tune adjustments and what adjustments due to power levels there. And finally do the same thing on what you consider an ideal day.

With those 3 metrics in your hand, you should be well on your way to figuring out how to tweak your car at the track and hit the targets you want based on the weather.

David Neibert
12-15-2010, 02:01 PM
Don't forget you can find yourself a chassis dyno shop and strap the puppy down to do some fine tuning of the timing and fueling curves. Bring along a portable weather station (http://www.biondoracing.com/WeatherStations.shtml) and optimize for power while logging the weather. No one will kick you off, and you can focus on the whole curve and see smaller impacts.

Make sure it is a friendly shop, and their dyno is good for high wheel speeds so you can wring it out like the track. the type of dyno won't matter much if you are doing full runs. Though a loaded dyno like a mustang unit may benefit you if you want to dial in part throttle behavior.

Then, on another day where the weather is what you consider the worst, do another session. Dial things in there, see how the weather impacts your tune adjustments and what adjustments due to power levels there. And finally do the same thing on what you consider an ideal day.

With those 3 metrics in your hand, you should be well on your way to figuring out how to tweak your car at the track and hit the targets you want based on the weather.

Mike,

The problem with testing in a static condition like on the dyno, is that without the dense cool air coming into the air filter and very little air movement across the intercooler or radiator core, it couldn't be tuned for max power. If using a dyno jet you couldn't even dial in WOT shift points because it isn't properly loaded to simulate driving the car on the track.

David

David Neibert
12-15-2010, 02:10 PM
Added 1 degree in the upper range above 6k. I'll have to look at the log but I think it came in alittle before 6k. 27 total. I have meth injection single 625ml jet and vp 103 in the tank. Target AFR is 11.6

I may have tried more timing but the track caught on to my shananigans.

Chris,

Thanks for the info, I expected you were going to say something crazy like 32 degrees. It's all very encouraging and I'm hoping I can get my car to make similar numbers on the track.

Between the new 28" Hoosiers, 3500 rpm converter and some changes to the tune, I'm pretty sure I can reach 10.8s. The new 95mm TB and a bigger cold air intake should also be helpful.

David

kenewagner
12-15-2010, 02:38 PM
Chris,


Between the new 28" Hoosiers, 3500 rpm converter and some changes to the tune, I'm pretty sure I can reach 10.8s. The new 95mm TB and a bigger cold air intake should also be helpful.

David

What do you expect for improvement with the 95MM? Having just bought last year a 85MM TB and MAF I couldnt see laying out more cash at the moment to get into the group buy to upgrade again

Ken

rzimmerl
12-15-2010, 02:53 PM
What do you expect for improvement with the 95MM?

Something similar to KB has found out with their testing, kinda like why everyone wants the bigger inlet plenums also.

http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/Mammoth/mammoth.htm

David Neibert
12-15-2010, 03:05 PM
What do you expect for improvement with the 95MM? Having just bought last year a 85MM TB and MAF I couldnt see laying out more cash at the moment to get into the group buy to upgrade again

Ken

Ken,

Sorry, I don't have a good frame of refrence to make that prediction. Based on what I've seen happen with v8 Mustangs when changing to larger inlet plenums and throttle...it could be anywhere from 10 to 50 HP. I always keep my expectations low, to avoid dissapointment.

David

neverfastenough
12-15-2010, 03:25 PM
Ken,

Sorry, I don't have a good frame of refrence to make that prediction. Based on what I've seen happen with v8 Mustangs when changing to larger inlet plenums and throttle...it could be anywhere from 10 to 50 HP. I always keep my expectations low, to avoid dissapointment.

David

You ordered the polished one, so regardless it will make more power.

BLOWN38
12-15-2010, 03:42 PM
If I had more track time I woulda tried more timing. The last run when the timing was added it did pick up a MPH. 1st run was a 10.740 at 126.8 with a 1.52 60' and the 3rd run, 2nd full pass was a 10.749 at 127.6 with a 1.54 or .56 60'. I'll get the slips up tonight.

rapper33142
12-15-2010, 03:59 PM
so r they making a new mp plenum to

nickleman60
12-15-2010, 04:28 PM
No one will kick you off, and you can focus on the whole curve and see smaller impacts.

Chris or I won't have to worry about being kicked off the track because we both plan on installing rollbars over the winter.

BLOWN38
12-15-2010, 05:23 PM
Chris or I won't have to worry about being kicked off the track because we both plan on installing rollbars over the winter.

Yeah and this tunes gonna go out the window with the 4.0 WHIP!:D

fturner
12-15-2010, 06:11 PM
so r they making a new mp plenum to

I doubt it because everyone thinks the MPX is done for and its life is over so it won't be worth it to throw any money at it, and the guys that have the money have already thrown the MPX out as a piece of crap..... sad because there could potentially be another 50rwhp left in the MPX with a proper sized plenum on it.

You want a bigger plenum you'll have to do it yourself, meanwhile its pointless to put a 95mm TB on the MPX setup, no improvement to be had there.

Fraser

nickleman60
12-15-2010, 06:26 PM
I doubt it because everyone thinks the MPX is done for and its life is over so it won't be worth it to throw any money at it, and the guys that have the money have already thrown the MPX out as a piece of crap..... sad because there could potentially be another 50rwhp left in the MPX with a proper sized plenum on it. Fraser

I have a MPx and I'm happy with the results I've gotten from it. I'm sure that with tweaking the tune at the track that I could have gotten into the 11's on motor which probably would have put me in the 10's with the 100 shot. I don't want to keep playing with it just to gain 1 to 3 tenths as I'm looking to run a low 11 to high 10 on motor. A MPx will not achieve this goal so it's on to something bigger for me. I think I surprised many this year with my performance even if I was using a shot of nitrous but it was still with a M90 blower.

David Neibert
12-15-2010, 06:34 PM
I have a MPx and I'm happy with the results I've gotten from it. I'm sure that with tweaking the tune at the track that I could have gotten into the 11's on motor which probably would have put me in the 10's with the 100 shot. I don't want to keep playing with it just to gain 1 to 3 tenths as I'm looking to run a low 11 to high 10 on motor. A MPx will not achieve this goal so it's on to something bigger for me. I think I surprised many this year with my performance even if I was using a shot of nitrous but it was still with a M90 blower.

Yes you did surprise some people. Best I ever managed was around 11.61 @ 120 with an MPII and a 100 HP shot.

David

fturner
12-15-2010, 06:42 PM
I have a MPx and I'm happy with the results I've gotten from it. I'm sure that with tweaking the tune at the track that I could have gotten into the 11's on motor which probably would have put me in the 10's with the 100 shot. I don't want to keep playing with it just to gain 1 to 3 tenths as I'm looking to run a low 11 to high 10 on motor. A MPx will not achieve this goal so it's on to something bigger for me. I think I surprised many this year with my performance even if I was using a shot of nitrous but it was still with a M90 blower.

You've gotten good results from it, and I know there is more to be had from the MPX. I think with the right setup it could get to the 11.5 mark without help... but as I mentioned, everyone is dropping it now like hot potatoes because its not good enough anymore because the big dogs say so, so no more money is going to be spent on it to let it reach its full potential, because the guys with the money that could get upgrades done for the MPX are spending money on getting new parts that 99% of the folks can't use.

The truth of it is, its the name of the game :), and money talks so the ones without are stuck. There's already a large gap forming between the big dogs and everyone else, and its only going to keep getting bigger because there is nothing to fill the gap with. If the shootout ever went to the idea of "Race What You Brung" and no classes.... there'd probably only be about 10 guys there to race, because there's no point in us slower guys even getting our keys out ;).

Fraser

Roadhawg
12-15-2010, 06:52 PM
If the shootout ever went to the idea of "Race What You Brung" and no classes.... there'd probably only be about 10 guys there to race, because there's no point in us slower guys even getting our keys out ;).

Fraser

You are lucky to have those 10.
If not everyone would be thinking 13s was the benchmark for Supercoupes.

frdlvr30
12-15-2010, 06:56 PM
Chris,

Thanks for the info, I expected you were going to say something crazy like 32 degrees. It's all very encouraging and I'm hoping I can get my car to make similar numbers on the track.

Between the new 28" Hoosiers, 3500 rpm converter and some changes to the tune, I'm pretty sure I can reach 10.8s. The new 95mm TB and a bigger cold air intake should also be helpful.

David

You can do better than 10.8 Davey!!!! You are being modest. As usual....

Miller
12-15-2010, 08:35 PM
.im a geek...

Mike8675309
12-15-2010, 09:17 PM
The problem with testing in a static condition like on the dyno, is that without the dense cool air coming into the air filter and very little air movement across the intercooler or radiator core, it couldn't be tuned for max power.

I'm gonna bring some fans with me when I do something like what I mentioned since many shops only have one and that will let me keep various pieces that get hot, cool.

But the idea of doing this on a dyno is to get the curve. Not necessarily the perfect numbers, but you can get the best relation for all the numbers. Then when at the track you should be able to make minor changes against the whole curve to get fully dialed in for the specific track conditions. With the multiple visits you start to get a sense for how your car reacts to different environments, all the while allowing you to focus on the gauges, sensor readings, and not having to worry about other cars or launching or lights.

XR7 Dave
12-15-2010, 09:24 PM
The truth of it is, its the name of the game :), and money talks so the ones without are stuck. There's already a large gap forming between the big dogs and everyone else, and its only going to keep getting bigger because there is nothing to fill the gap with. If the shootout ever went to the idea of "Race What You Brung" and no classes.... there'd probably only be about 10 guys there to race, because there's no point in us slower guys even getting our keys out ;).

Fraser

This is just plain not true. I could pull out some statistics showing how much money people spent only a few years ago, to run 13's. It would make you sick. Now the same budget can get you deep into the 12's. In fact the average times of ALL Shootout participants continues to get quicker and quicker. We didn't even have enough entries to run a stock class this year whereas in some previous years stock class was the biggest class.

The fact is that our fastest car at the 2003 SC Shootout ran almost identical times to the fastest cars at the 2010 Shootout. The gap between the fastest and slowest is still about the same, but the bias towards faster cars is heavily towards the opposite end of the spectrum than it was 7 years ago. The group as a whole is getting much faster and the gaps are in fact narrowing significantly as better parts become more readily available.

People who have not maximized their current combinations have no grounds to say anything about those who have taken the time to optimize theirs. That applies to a bunch of you (ok, us, haha).

BLOWN38
12-15-2010, 10:02 PM
Here's the slips.

Mike8675309
12-15-2010, 10:21 PM
The problem with testing in a static condition like on the dyno, is that without the dense cool air coming into the air filter and very little air movement across the intercooler or radiator core, it couldn't be tuned for max power.

I'm gonna bring some fans with me when I do something like what I mentioned since many shops only have one and that will let me keep various pieces that get hot, cool.

But the idea of doing this on a dyno is to get the curve. Not necessarily the perfect numbers, but you can get the best relation for all the numbers. Then when at the track you should be able to make minor changes against the whole curve to get fully dialed in for the specific track conditions. With the multiple visits you start to get a sense for how your car reacts to different environments, all the while allowing you to focus on the gauges, sensor readings, and not having to worry about other cars or launching or lights.

David Neibert
12-16-2010, 12:29 AM
You are lucky to have those 10.
If not everyone would be thinking 13s was the benchmark for Supercoupes.

I remember when we all busted azz trying to break 300 rwhp, and how beating Neil Frizbie's 12.4 ET seemed impossible. Now days it's easy and it's much much cheaper. Having people constantly raising the bar is a good thing especially when the information on how it was done is shared with the entire community.

David

nickleman60
12-16-2010, 09:08 AM
I Having people constantly raising the bar is a good thing especially when the information on how it was done is shared with the entire community.

David

I couldn't have said it better, if it wasn't for the sharing of info and help of others I'd still be running 14's........:rolleyes:

kenewagner
12-16-2010, 10:24 AM
everyone is dropping it now like hot potatoes because its not good enough anymore because the big dogs say so, so no more money is going to be spent on it to let it reach its full potential, because the guys with the money that could get upgrades done for the MPX are spending money on getting new parts that 99% of the folks can't use.

The truth of it is, its the name of the game :), and money talks so the ones without are stuck. There's already a large gap forming between the big dogs and everyone else, and its only going to keep getting bigger because there is nothing to fill the gap with. If the shootout ever went to the idea of "Race What You Brung" and no classes.... there'd probably only be about 10 guys there to race, because there's no point in us slower guys even getting our keys out ;).

Fraser


I guess I dont agree with this but I can see where you are coming from. I remember years ago when people were begging someone to build a whipple setup. There was a prototype made but nothing much was done with it. A few guys decided to make a 2.3 whipple work. And is working very well. Its called progress. Right now we have one guy talking about a 4.0 whipple so already my poor old 2.3 whipple is soon to be obsolete:rolleyes: I am running a 3.8 motor but already the stroked 3.8 are becoming popular so my 3.8 is soon to obsolete:rolleyes: I purchased a 85MM TB & MAF this year and hand built a custom fresh air tube. Now the 85MM TB is obsolete and 95MM is the ticket. The 2.0 AR replaces the 1.7AR and on and on. The MPX is always going to be a good deal for someone looking to make 300 to 350 rwhp, just like some one with a earlier M90 want to upgrade to a 94-95 blower. The guy with the 94-95 blower will want to upgrade to the MPX and the MPX guy will upgrade to a twin screw. I think you will also see more turbos as guys in search of big HP throw away their blower setups. As a lot of guys let their setup go to make more HP, more guys will be buying those used setups and going faster. As a thunderbird enthusist I want to see our cars doing more 10s and low 11s with a 4000 lb car powered by a V6. I dont think anyone is just throwing out the MPX it is just part of the progression of the search for HP. The last two years have been phenomenon (had to look that up to spell it) in improvements to our cars and I applaud all the guys pushing the limits;)

Ken

ricardoa1
12-16-2010, 12:20 PM
Its progression I guess. And yes a roots will never compare in my opinion to a twinscrew. But maybe a TVS will be the hot ticket for the masses.

Used Hi-PO parts also allow others to catch up, maybe not surpass but def catch up. There has always been a large gap between Eatons and Twin Screws. Reaso is that a proper size twinscrew will jump HP 50-100+ hp over a Eaton. TVS might fill in the gap between the two.

MPX has a problem. IT requires lots of overdrive and the used rotor packs that are out there are of age. And the replacement bearings are not up to the job. Why do you think I had to shelve my M112. The rebuild on the bearing plates just cant take the RPMS. So unless you dump $1500on a new M90 from magnuson to then take it apart and use the rotor pack from it, then you are in for almost $3000 after the MPX and its inlet.

Its not like Ive have not explored the above options I have 3 rotor packs thinking the MPX on the Anniversary was going to eventually need it.

But the owners get bored and more power is always wanted. 5.0L mustangs are just starting to get modified. Someone has to keep up with them.....

Mike8675309
12-16-2010, 12:33 PM
Since this is the racing results forum, perhaps it is appropriate to point out the gap. But outside of racing, the gap has little to do with your enjoyment of the car. My main goal with the car is to have a car where use of the throttle requires consideration and some level of skill. A car where WOT actually means something, and results in something other than a down shift. A car where if a car guy is in the passenger seat when I "show him something" he will exclaim and smile, or if he/she isn't a car guy will glare at me and ask me what the bleep I think I'm doing.

I think at around 350-380rwhp you can do all that.

fturner
12-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Ok, answer this then.

After an MPX thats got you at around a 12.3 with a reasonably good setup.... what is there below $2000 to get you that little bit more to make 11's consistantly besides nitrous?

And yet, the MPX can get you there if you have the right sized intake plenum.

You guys are forgetting that we are not like the mustangs out there, we don't have the aftermarket parts like they do where they can do gradual build ups over time because parts are a dime a dozen for them.

Here we are, the MPX that hasn't reached full potential for most folks, and for most folks, the step up to the next level, if it happens to become available used that is, is above most peoples budgets....

So with that in mind, the gap is going to widen, and soon there is only going to be a couple of folks running 11's, most folks stuck in the 12's with no where to go, and the big dogs going into the 10's and even 9's, which is good but new parts becoming very scarce for the 12's folks because the R&D is totally focused on where the money is coming in which is the 10's and 9's guys, and nothing for the 12's guys.

The MPX is going to be the plateu for the majority, and unless something comes out within that price range that offers more, thats it. The next step which is $1000's away, is out of reach for most. To note, this price gap doesn't exist in the mustang world.

That is why I'd like to see the MPX taken to its max potential, then at least folks can get into the high 11's so to speak, because going beyond 11.5 is going to be hugely expensive anyway do to all the mods that has to be done to the car to make it NHRA legal, and I'm not going to install a roll cage cause I like the interior, so 11.5 is my max goal.

Fraser

ricardoa1
12-16-2010, 01:03 PM
Fraser you missed the point on that it requires a very good rotor pack to survive the RPMS it take to run 12s or even 11s with the MPX. So now you go and spend 1500 on a new M90 from magnuson. To be in the hole for close to $3,000 Thats AR territory so why not just take the plunge?
The MPX is a great blower and will keep many folks happy but unless you get a new TVS to fit and have a kit that is hundreds away from a TwinScrew kit. The gap will always be there.

And you are putting all your chips on a larger inlet for the MPX but what if it only provides marginal gains. Ive ported my M112 even further then an MPX and all that did is kill the bottom end of the car. Now yes the inlet choked up in the higher RPMS, But then you get into the whole Bearing Plate discussion.

fturner
12-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Fraser you missed the point on that it requires a very good rotor pack to survive the RPMS it take to run 12s or even 11s with the MPX. So now you go and spend 1500 on a new M90 from magnuson. To be in the hole for close to $3,000 Thats AR territory so why not just take the plunge?
The MPX is a great blower and will keep many folks happy but unless you get a new TVS to fit and have a kit that is hundreds away from a TwinScrew kit. The gap will always be there.

And you are putting all your chips on a larger inlet for the MPX but what if it only provides marginal gains. Ive ported my M112 even further then an MPX and all that did is kill the bottom end of the car. Now yes the inlet choked up in the higher RPMS, But then you get into the whole Bearing Plate discussion.

I'll put it to you this way, I'm running the MPX at 15% OD, and can go all the way to 6200rpm... I can't do that with 25% OD because it starve's itself by 5200 rpm so I'm wasting the potential of my car. My datalogs and calculations are showing that there is a possibility of up to another 50hp to be had from the MPX at 25% OD, purely because it won't be cavitating and beating itself to death, and the temperatures will be alot lower because the VE of the blower will remain up.

I wouldn't be saying anything if we where only talking another 5hp gain, but up to 50 is significant, which means that cars can be running at around 400rwhp with an MPX, and because its not trying to kill itself because it has the air it needs to run, reliability won't be as much as an issue. Remember the discussions of the cross talk tube and why Ford put that on the m90? That is the same problem the MPX is seeing because it can't get enough air.

I don't have a choice but to put all my chips into the MPX. I'm in the same boat as the majority here that do not have 1000's of dollars to throw at the car every year. I have to maximize what I have, and I've been doing that since day 1.

-20 of you went after the 95mm TB, how many more folks in this club will benefit from that development? MPX owner's can't.

-Now there's a push for a 4" CAI with integrated MAF to fit that TB.... how many folks in this club can benefit from that upgrade? 20 maybe? Again, useless with the MPX.

-How many folks have MPX's that can benefit from a larger plenum and potentially gain up to another 50hp?

Anyway, it is what it is, and time will prove or disprove it. Since I'm not able to convey the message I want to, there's no point in saying anymore.

Keep getting the better numbers, I do appreciate the work that it entails to get there.

Fraser

David Neibert
12-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Ok, answer this then.

After an MPX thats got you at around a 12.3 with a reasonably good setup.... what is there below $2000 to get you that little bit more to make 11's consistantly besides nitrous?

And yet, the MPX can get you there if you have the right sized intake plenum.

You guys are forgetting that we are not like the mustangs out there, we don't have the aftermarket parts like they do where they can do gradual build ups over time because parts are a dime a dozen for them.

Here we are, the MPX that hasn't reached full potential for most folks, and for most folks, the step up to the next level, if it happens to become available used that is, is above most peoples budgets....

So with that in mind, the gap is going to widen, and soon there is only going to be a couple of folks running 11's, most folks stuck in the 12's with no where to go, and the big dogs going into the 10's and even 9's, which is good but new parts becoming very scarce for the 12's folks because the R&D is totally focused on where the money is coming in which is the 10's and 9's guys, and nothing for the 12's guys.

The MPX is going to be the plateu for the majority, and unless something comes out within that price range that offers more, thats it. The next step which is $1000's away, is out of reach for most. To note, this price gap doesn't exist in the mustang world.

That is why I'd like to see the MPX taken to its max potential, then at least folks can get into the high 11's so to speak, because going beyond 11.5 is going to be hugely expensive anyway do to all the mods that has to be done to the car to make it NHRA legal, and I'm not going to install a roll cage cause I like the interior, so 11.5 is my max goal.

Fraser

Fraser,

If you want to go that fast with an MPX and you don't want to add nitrous or some other additional power added, then follow Kevin's lead and start removing weight from the car, or rework the existing plenum as Charles has suggested.

New product development on go faster parts for a car that was built in limited numbers, that has no street creed or special status, has lower resale value than a Honda anythng, and went out of production more than 15 years ago....isn't going to happen for the masses.

It's only going to happen for those items that people are willing to spend the extra money that is needed to make small batches of custom built parts, and still turn a profit.

David

fturner
12-16-2010, 01:40 PM
It's only going to happen for those items that people are willing to spend the extra money that is needed to make small batches of custom built parts, and still turn a profit.

David

Thats exactly what I'm trying to point out.... and that alone is going to create a big gap, because most people will be stuck at the MPX level, and can't afford the multi $1000's to go to the next level.

Fraser

kenewagner
12-16-2010, 02:04 PM
I'll put it to you this way, I'm running the MPX at 15% OD, and can go all the way to 6200rpm... I can't do that with 25% OD because it starve's itself by 5200 rpm so I'm wasting the potential of my car.

-How many folks have MPX's that can benefit from a larger plenum and potentially gain up to another 50hp?


Fraser

What size TB & Maf do you have now? Is that possibly a restriction and not the plenum? If you can at a later date, when it is not a daily driver, send it to me I would rework it to how you think it should be if that would help prove the added potential of the MPX. I dont think people are giving up on the MPX, only one guy has stated he is going a diffrent route and his goals are very lofty to acheive with a M90 based blower.

Ken

ricardoa1
12-16-2010, 02:31 PM
I guess we will find out. I think Dave D when he can, will experiment on what the MPX will do with a cut up and enlarged inlet. I think it was mentioned in the 95MM group buy. But to get Charles to get enough folks and to cast another inlet, it better make the 50+ HP you speak of.

I actully like the eaton and I like my M112 but with the problems you have already mentioned, I was unable to make anything of the M112 project. I cant keep it together for a long time...When Chris borrowed it was just rebuilt, and by the time he was done with it after a racing season it was not pretty and I had it rebuilt again, I put it on the Anny and the shortly after it started to make noise again. But at the peak of it all it made alot of torque and was pushing alot of air. But the inlet was a hold back and a cause for problems like heat and cavitation.

Been there done that. AR was a better performer in the end.

Stay tuned for me when I decide where I will be headed with my car.

neverfastenough
12-16-2010, 02:31 PM
Chris, as far as fuel goes, are you using a 255? stock lines? whats your fuel pressure set at and your duty cycle, if you dont mind me asking.

Mike8675309
12-16-2010, 02:55 PM
Imagine how SC potential with the MPX could change had we an efficient intake manifold and heads (none of which exist in any production form today)?

BLOWN38
12-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Chris, as far as fuel goes, are you using a 255? stock lines? whats your fuel pressure set at and your duty cycle, if you dont mind me asking.

Yeah I have the single 255 HP pump with upgraded wiring. Stock lines and modified stock rails to clear the front of the blower. Basically the fuel system is stock with a Kirban FPR set at 40 psi base pressure and 80lb injectors. Also have a BAP set on 30. I think something is at its limit as the FP only gets to about 58psi WOT with 23-24lbs of boost. Injector duty is at its limit too 98% on my 10.7 runs. I have plans to upgrade all that stuff this winter. Now if I could get ahold of one of them custom fuel cells Ken made up.;)

rapper33142
12-16-2010, 03:57 PM
i agree with fraser. i know i am nobody here on the forums . i will not be able to buy one of the twin blower it just to much money. but a mpx i can do and if there's more that can be had from a blower that fits with no fab and without all the extra work that it take to install a twin blower. i will say lets get more out of the mpx . most ppl here do not have the fab skills to run a twin blower and if i had to pay some one to do it on top of the $3000 minimum cuz some of there twin blower r $3800 to $4000 and maybe $5000 it just wont happening . but if it a bolt on part hey i can do that and save money . so i would like to see a new inlet for the mpx . and if a new mp inlet was made and sold for $ 900 it would still save me a lot more money then having someone make me a kit . last mp can profit more selling parts for the mpx then selling only to the 20 or so with the twin blowers .


jr

BLOWN38
12-16-2010, 04:18 PM
i agree with fraser. i know i am nobody here on the forums . i will not be able to buy one of the twin blower it just to much money. but a mpx i can do and if there's more that can be had from a blower that fits with no fab and without all the extra work that it take to install a twin blower. i will say lets get more out of the mpx . most ppl here do not have the fab skills to run a twin blower and if i had to pay some one to do it on top of the $3000 minimum cuz some of there twin blower r $3800 to $4000 and maybe $5000 it just wont happening . but if it a bolt on part hey i can do that and save money . so i would like to see a new inlet for the mpx . and if a new mp inlet was made and sold for $ 900 it would still save me a lot more money then having someone make me a kit . last mp can profit more selling parts for the mpx then selling only to the 20 or so with the twin blowers .


jr

thing is there is no extra fab work with the twin screw kits that are out there from SCU. there are supporting mods but you'll have those when you put a mpx on too.

rapper33142
12-16-2010, 04:26 PM
thing is there is no extra fab work with the twin screw kits that are out there from SCU. there are supporting mods but you'll have those when you put a mpx on too.
will the stock intercooler tube fit ? i did not know he still made kit i was thinking he stop

rzimmerl
12-16-2010, 04:40 PM
will the stock intercooler tube fit ?

Yes it will.

David Neibert
12-16-2010, 04:45 PM
i agree with fraser. i know i am nobody here on the forums . i will not be able to buy one of the twin blower it just to much money. but a mpx i can do and if there's more that can be had from a blower that fits with no fab and without all the extra work that it take to install a twin blower. i will say lets get more out of the mpx . most ppl here do not have the fab skills to run a twin blower and if i had to pay some one to do it on top of the $3000 minimum cuz some of there twin blower r $3800 to $4000 and maybe $5000 it just wont happening . but if it a bolt on part hey i can do that and save money . so i would like to see a new inlet for the mpx . and if a new mp inlet was made and sold for $ 900 it would still save me a lot more money then having someone make me a kit . last mp can profit more selling parts for the mpx then selling only to the 20 or so with the twin blowers .


jr

The existing MP inlet plenum can't be enlarged enough to make much of an improvement without also doing something to the return plenum and intake manifold inlet, because it sits directly behind the inlet plenum. So simply making a bigger plenum isn't going to be all that's needed. Relocating the inlet plenum further back means it will need to be extended to work with the stock IC tubes and bypass valve connection will no longer line up either. The fuel rail will also require modification.

The other alternative is to move the blower forward and upward, which creates problems with the blower mounting points, fuel rail, hood clearance, snout length/belt allignment, thermostat area of intake manifold ect...

As you can see there is no easy bolt on solution, and until it's proven by testing that increasing the plenum volume by whatever amount, will really increase the blower efficency and resulting HP by X amount, no one is even going to buy into purchasing the plenum.

David

rapper33142
12-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Yes it will.
thanks rzimmerl but i dont need a tiwn screw the blower i got from u will do 12's like i wanted and if i did up grade i will go mpx thats y i back up any improvements to the mxp

BLOWN38
12-16-2010, 05:20 PM
i did not know he still made kit i was thinking he stop

He doesn't, thats why I said whats already out there.:)

Roadhawg
12-16-2010, 05:37 PM
The other alternative is to move the blower forward and upward, which creates problems with the blower mounting points, fuel rail, hood clearance, snout length/belt allignment, thermostat area of intake manifold ect...

David

I have this crazy, out of the box thinking. I know it would not practical for most, but how about moving the drive plate to the rear and inlet to the front like on a Magnacharger. It would be fun to rotate the case and get the 2300TVS to work.

kenewagner
12-16-2010, 10:05 PM
I have this crazy, out of the box thinking. I know it would not practical for most, but how about moving the drive plate to the rear and inlet to the front like on a Magnacharger. It would be fun to rotate the case and get the 2300TVS to work.

I dont think the fuel rail and injectors will allow that configuration. But you never know:D

Ken

nickleman60
12-17-2010, 10:47 AM
Has anyone ever entertained thoughts on a centrifigal supercharger set-up? Is it even worth looking in to?

XR7 Dave
12-17-2010, 11:21 AM
Has anyone ever entertained thoughts on a centrifigal supercharger set-up? Is it even worth looking in to?

Anything is possible. Look at V6Power.net to see what results have been achieved so far with centrifugal blowers. The real question is do you want to fab one up? If not, does anyone want to fab one up and sell a kit that will fit an SC?

Much like a turbo setup, a centrifugal is just another way to make boost. There are positives and negatives about any system.

nickleman60
12-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Anything is possible.

That true............:D

Not that I'm thinking about that as I have my route to more power already picked out.

David Neibert
12-17-2010, 03:56 PM
That true............:D

Not that I'm thinking about that as I have my route to more power already picked out.

Keith,

I've already picked my route too, and so far I'm very happy with it.

Once I install the 3500 rpm converter, LC-1 wideband, Innovative wideband display, Canton coolant tank, 95mm TB, 4" intake tube with slot style MAF, much bigger air filter and get it all retuned....I'm planning to take a break from the go-faster mods.

Then I can concentrate on stuff like upgrading the brakes and redoing the leather interior.

David

ricardoa1
12-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Keith,

I've already picked my route too, and so far I'm very happy with it.

Once I install the 3500 rpm converter, LC-1 wideband, Innovative wideband display, Canton coolant tank, 95mm TB, 4" intake tube with slot style MAF, much bigger air filter and get it all retuned....I'm planning to take a break from the go-faster mods.

Then I can concentrate on stuff like upgrading the brakes and redoing the leather interior.

David

You are joking right? Niebert taking a break from go fast goodies...Come around the shootout smack talk time, You will be thinking of something else like dumping the MP intercooler or something.
You do need an interior upgrade. The red leather has more cracks lines then the palm of my grandmas hand.
;p

David Neibert
12-17-2010, 04:46 PM
You are joking right? Niebert taking a break from go fast goodies...Come around the shootout smack talk time, You will be thinking of something else like dumping the MP intercooler or something.
You do need an interior upgrade. The red leather has more cracks lines then the palm of my grandmas hand.
;p

No I'm serious...I'm thinking that sould be plenty for 500 plus rwhp and 10s. Then once the brakes and interior gets done, I'll be content for a little while.

Planning to bring the turbo car to the Shootout this year, and I've got several go-faster mods planned for it too :cool:

David

decipha
12-19-2010, 06:52 AM
the year hasn't even started yet and your already referencing it as the present :p

David Neibert
12-19-2010, 10:48 AM
the year hasn't even started yet and your already referencing it as the present :p

Wooops...I'm always thinking at least a year ahead.

David