Rebuilt '95 with bigger cam

F

fearlesfil

Registered User
Got a rebuilt long block from http://www.promarengine.com since compared to the others on ebay they had a high performance shop . It has a 3 year warranty (no way to know how well they stand behind it). I wanted to go with a 4.2 (truck crank) stroker, but at $2,000 for the basic SC remanufactured plus $1,700 for a 4.2 cast crank (would it hold up?), forged H-beam rods and pistons :eek: we looked at another option.

We went with a CompCams 265HR-115 "serious street" and springs as a $650 upgrade (including labor). Would I do it again? I'd pick the milder 259HR-115. While the 265 runs really well from half to full throttle, it causes the idle to hunt a little, there's mild surging cruising below 65 MPH, and the MIL comes on intermittently. I'm presuming a trip to a tuner for a customer map is in order to get all the stock drivability back. Since we're talking EEC-IV I don't think this will be cheap? But it does run really strong with the 10% overdrive pulley at 15 PSI boost. The cam is good to 6,000 RPM so a reprogramming of the shift points are probably in order to get the most out of it.

From http://supercoupeperformance.com I got new plugs, a good return plenum, LiveWires and IC seals. I replaced all the heater hoses, often custom made by me, since they're are impossible to reach with the engine in.

PROMAR was pretty helpful. Not fast but they weren't taking any shortcuts either. Only issues with the engine as delivered: Mine had a crankshaft baffle /scraper that needed 3 additional main cap bolts with protruding studs so I had to transplant those and retorque them, and the timing chain cover must have been for an earlier model or other 3.8 as it lacked the bosses to mount the crankshaft position sensor so I had to clean up my old one and transplant bushings /seals. UPS was going to deliver to the house via lift gate truck. Turned out to be a 48' lift gate truck that couldn't back into my driveway. Called the kid home so they could transfer to his pickup bed and on to the garage.

Teething pains: Shaky pictures from a cell phone are not your friend when trying to figure out what bolt /vacuum line goes where. Timing the camshaft position sensor required a $24 OTC-6467 Ford Camshaft Sensor Synchronizer Tool from O'Reilly's (which they couldn't find until I found it for them) though I could have done the same for free with a clear non-inverted picture of the innards.
http://www.injectorwhse.com/servlet/the-18086/1994-dsh-95-FORD-THUNDERBIRD-3.8L/Detail listed rebuilt injectors for the supercharged 3.8, but they were really for a stock 3.8 so after two days of troubleshooting I put the originals back in and now it runs. Lastly, no matter how tight I make the exhaust pipe to manifold nuts, they continue to leak ...

Anyone have any experience with taming this combination, or getting the frapping exhausts to be quiet? Regards, fearless phil
 
Are you sure its an SC bottom end? Heads have sc stamped on them?

Now any head work or stock heads?

Just checking

Did you used exhaust gaskets? Is your egr leaking?

As far as taming it. You need a tune. Id reccomend an upgrade of 42lb injectors as well. They are cheap and easy to come by.

What other mods do you have?
 
XxSlowpokexX said:
Are you sure its an SC bottom end? Heads have sc stamped on them?

Now any head work or stock heads?

Just checking

Did you used exhaust gaskets? Is your egr leaking?

As far as taming it. You need a tune. Id reccomend an upgrade of 42lb injectors as well. They are cheap and easy to come by.

What other mods do you have?
Click to expand...
Yes, SC cast into everything. Forged crank. Everything looks exactly like the original engine I pulled.

Other than the cam and matching springs, its all stock. I did use exhaust gaskets. No sign of an EGR leak and no KOEO or KOER codes, though I would expect some later keep alive numbers after it digests the intermittent MIL indications.

Checking CompCam's listing, it says this cam does require a custom tune, so nothing its doing so far surprises me. That's why I'm recommending the milder cam for those that want to skip the tuning step. I would be interested if anyone has tried a similar cam and what they did (chip or custom tune, etc.) to deal with the drivability.

Thanks, fearless phil
 
A local guy here has that cam. It works well on stock heads because of the extra exhaust duration. He is shifting at 5,700 rpm, but i think we could bump it up a bit more. He's running the now unavailable crane springs on otherwise stock heads/95 block..

That cam pulls hard, but without a tune feels weak in the low rpms. Upon tuning his, it idles pretty smooth and just rips at any throttle position.

If your car is shifting at the stock points (4,400 rpm i think) you are missing out. That cam just starts to wake up at 4,000 rpm.

Its all in the tune.. That cam likes a lot of timing down low to wake up your part throttle. When tuned, this cam will have great drivability.

A mild converter helps too. He has a factory 2004 mustang mach 1 torque converter and flexplate. Stalls about 2,400-2,500 on his SC. And its smaller too, for less weight. Also, FYI you can't spin a stock sized torque converter past 5,500, or you risk balooning it.

Jeramie
 
92bird said:
A local guy here has that cam. It works well on stock heads because of the extra exhaust duration. He is shifting at 5,700 rpm, but i think we could bump it up a bit more. He's running the now unavailable crane springs on otherwise stock heads/95 block..

That cam pulls hard, but without a tune feels weak in the low rpms. Upon tuning his, it idles pretty smooth and just rips at any throttle position.

If your car is shifting at the stock points (4,400 rpm i think) you are missing out. That cam just starts to wake up at 4,000 rpm.

Its all in the tune.. That cam likes a lot of timing down low to wake up your part throttle. When tuned, this cam will have great drivability.

A mild converter helps too. He has a factory 2004 mustang mach 1 torque converter and flexplate. Stalls about 2,400-2,500 on his SC. And its smaller too, for less weight. Also, FYI you can't spin a stock sized torque converter past 5,500, or you risk balooning it.

Jeramie
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Great comments Jeramie, thanks!
 
I never can quite grasp the concept why someone would put money into their car to get it to go faster, then complain that a couple hundred bucks is too much money to get a base tune going on their setup to get things "closer"... then they end up complaining that their setup sucks and tells everyone not to do it and the vendor is bad etc.....

It is NOT that expensive to get a tune or even getting the equipment yourself and learn to tune considering the cost of having to replace all the parts again because the stock tune lean'ed out the motor and it blew up.

I can, and have done, tunes even for nearly stock setups that makes the car run better and perform better, and safer. PM me if you want an idea how much it will cost you, and what kind of options you want tuned for.

Fraser
 
fturner said:
I never can quite grasp the concept why someone would put money into their car to get it to go faster, then complain that a couple hundred bucks is too much money to get a base tune going on their setup to get things "closer"... then they end up complaining that their setup sucks and tells everyone not to do it and the vendor is bad etc.....

It is NOT that expensive to get a tune or even getting the equipment yourself and learn to tune considering the cost of having to replace all the parts again because the stock tune lean'ed out the motor and it blew up.

I can, and have done, tunes even for nearly stock setups that makes the car run better and perform better, and safer. PM me if you want an idea how much it will cost you, and what kind of options you want tuned for.

Fraser
Click to expand...
I never mind spending money I plan to spend. The cam was recommended by the rebuilder without a word about "it'll need a tune." I usually do all this research myself but I went on faith and got bit. So its another $380 or so for a chip from supercoupeperformance, maybe a try or two before we hit the combo since its "cut and try" without live tuning on a dyno, and more time I didn't plan on. I am where I am on this so I'm just trying to find my way through so I can be done with the current project. Its just a fact that if I had known that this particular CAM required a tune, and CompCams had another that didn't, I would have picked the "didn't" to avoid the time and expense. As long as the engine was being rebuilt I wanted an enhancement, preferably a stroker. Since that was prohibitively expensive for the improvement, a CAM made sense. But I'll end up spending 3/4ths of the cost of the stroker after adding the chip. So I'm not complaining about spending money to go faster; just about busting the budget unexpectedly. In the meantime, the stock computer appears to be learning. Haven't seen a MIL in two days. When its improved all its going to, I might just decide to live with it. Will see ...
 
you are risking blowing your car up. Get the AFR checked ASAP, buy a wideband or pay for a couple of dyno pulls. You will be sorry if you lean out and knock the engine into pieces.
 
You would have needed a tune regardless. So you can ad that tune cost to a strokermotor or even a mild cam rebuild.
 
I'd rather be lucky than good

A good news update. We have experienced no detonation (knocking, pinging, rattling) and we're only running on 91 gas. With time, the EEC-IV has adapted to the new cam. Idle is good and part throttle cruise has smoothed out. The MILs went away after two days of stop and go street driving. It has a real top end now and chirps the tires when up shifting to 2nd.

This is the result I was hoping for. I was somewhat optimistic given this cam is less radical than the E303 cam for the 5.0 with a similar MAF system, which Ford said did not require a retune. Can more be EEC'ed ;) out of it? I'm sure it can but for a daily driver I'm happy right now with how it runs. Should be able to keep up with any stock 5.0 Stang I think.

Since I can manually shift from 1-2-3, and the computer is happy, I'm going to run it through emissions and if it passes, I'm done. If not, I'll look at the aforementioned chip from supercoupeperformance, or keep trying to find one of the Ford Motorsport extreme performance engine control EPEC systems which would be fun to play with. Didn't see any on ebay just now...

Cheers, Phil
 
Im glad you got it all figured out. :D Looking forward to future updates and how its doing several months from now.
 
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