Break Conversion Satisfaction

SCrazy

SCCoA Member
I figured I start a new thread outside of the techinical discussion in other Break Conversion thread.

The main thing I want to know is if people are really happy with the feel of the converted breaks. I really like stock breaks in my '94 but I need space under the front vendor where the massive valve box sits for transmission coolers.

My biggest concern is can you get back to the same pedal feel with a non-abs conversion. I've heard alot of stories about spongy pedals, little/no feedback, etc, etc.......
 
Brake Conversion Satisfaction

93+ cars have a vac booster and the ABS system is wired in a lot differently than the early cars. Removing it I think would take quite a bit of brake line work. But otherwise I wouldn't expect any change in feel.


The early cars are hydraulic assist, and I don't know that anyone has found the right master cylinder/vacuum booster to get the pedal feel right.
 
I figured I start a new thread outside of the techinical discussion in other Break Conversion thread.

The main thing I want to know is if people are really happy with the feel of the converted breaks. I really like stock breaks in my '94 but I need space under the front vendor where the massive valve box sits for transmission coolers.

My biggest concern is can you get back to the same pedal feel with a non-abs conversion. I've heard alot of stories about spongy pedals, little/no feedback, etc, etc.......

The spongy feeling is those who did not get the distance correct on the push rod or did not fully/properly bleed the entire brake system.

The brakes are as good as any other normal car and the feedback is also no different than any other conventional system.
 
The spongy feeling is those who did not get the distance correct on the push rod or did not fully/properly bleed the entire brake system.

The brakes are as good as any other normal car and the feedback is also no different than any other conventional system.

yes i'm real happy with my conversion pedal is fine and it only cost me about 70 bucks. now no more worries about pumps/motors and big black balls:cool:
 
The early cars are hydraulic assist, and I don't know that anyone has found the right master cylinder/vacuum booster to get the pedal feel right.

The spongy feeling is those who did not get the distance correct on the push rod or did not fully/properly bleed the entire brake system.

The brakes are as good as any other normal car and the feedback is also no different than any other conventional system.

This is exactly why I asked this question......two diffent people with two vastly different opinions on the results of the conversion.

I do understand that a fair amount of break line work will be needed on this car since each break has a line that runs from the wheel all the way up to the valve box in the fender with no shared or split lines. Although I'm curious to experiement with seeing if the stock vac booster will be reusable.
 
This is exactly why I asked this question......two diffent people with two vastly different opinions on the results of the conversion.

I do understand that a fair amount of break line work will be needed on this car since each break has a line that runs from the wheel all the way up to the valve box in the fender with no shared or split lines. Although I'm curious to experiement with seeing if the stock vac booster will be reusable.

The NON-ABS early model cars run 4 lines from the master(1 to each wheel).

All the conversation stuff in the ABS to Conventional thread is for the Early model ABS system. Not the late model stuff, so you MIGHT be breaking new ground.

But, MANY cars on the road today run around with the ABS system inop and it works fine. IF I were you and wanted to get rid of the ABS on your car I would just do line work. Plumb all the lines directly to the master. No issues with doing that. Actually, it will make your 94 just like the 89-92 NON-ABS set up.


Not sure where Mike came up with this statement...
Originally Posted by Mike8675309
The early cars are hydraulic assist, and I don't know that anyone has found the right master cylinder/vacuum booster to get the pedal feel right.

MANY have found the right combination. Matter of fact there are at least 2 PROVEN combinations that work great, with great pedal feel, feedback and performs same as everyother conventional system.
 
MANY have found the right combination. Matter of fact there are at least 2 PROVEN combinations that work great, with great pedal feel, feedback and performs same as everyother conventional system.

I've seen posts where people disagree with your statement. Do you feel that there is a combination for the early cars that results in the same brake pedal feel and response that was there with the hydraulic assist system? If so, I suggest documenting it in the conversion thread.

Note, that for some, the goal isn't to achieve a retrofit brake system that provides the same feel as every other conventional system. The goal is to have a conventional system that feels and functions as good as the original system did, just without ABS.
 
I did the conversion to one of my SCs....

I adjusted the rod in and out but never could get the brakes to work the way I wanted them to, so I switched back to ABS....

I can swap out an ABS master cylinder in about the same time as installing a normal master cylinder with vacuum booster....
 
Note, that for some, the goal isn't to achieve a retrofit brake system that provides the same feel as every other conventional system. The goal is to have a conventional system that feels and functions as good as the original system did, just without ABS.

This is defiantely where I was coming from.
 
The NON-ABS early model cars run 4 lines from the master(1 to each wheel).

But, MANY cars on the road today run around with the ABS system inop and it works fine. IF I were you and wanted to get rid of the ABS on your car I would just do line work. Plumb all the lines directly to the master. No issues with doing that. Actually, it will make your 94 just like the 89-92 NON-ABS set up.


Now that would be interesting if I could get away with simply removing the valve system and reworking the lines.
 
93+ cars have a vac booster and the ABS system is wired in a lot differently than the early cars. Removing it I think would take quite a bit of brake line work. But otherwise I wouldn't expect any change in feel.


The early cars are hydraulic assist, and I don't know that anyone has found the right master cylinder/vacuum booster to get the pedal feel right.

/me raises his hand.

1991 Thunderbird - whatever would be the Sport in later years - but without the ABS. Use M10-1.0 and M12-1.0 for the front brake ferrules, use M12-1.0 and a M10-1.0 bleeder for the back brakes. Run it down to the ABS proportioning valve, no prop. valve on the master cylinder.

Same for the vacuum boost.

Went into a 1991 Cougar.

Brakes feel GREAT. Now to upgrade to 1993+ front calipers and sport brakes, or PBRs, to help the car stop on a dime and give me change (instead of the stock stop on a quarter, on a good day ... )

RwP
 
My findings have been well documented in the swap thread.
LOVE the feel of my brakes!
Perform as good as any other system out there.
The idea behind swapping the systems is WHEN your TevesII system goes out, instead of replacing the parts or the whole MC that can cost an arm and a leg... you can do swap to a reliable non-ABS system for ALOT less than the ABS system.

IF you do it all the right way...

Parts documented
T-Bird booster
CV Master
T-Bird vacuum line
T-Bird booster check valve
Hardware store push rod bolt

Adjust the pushrod bolt to the PROPER length (AGAIN, pictures and measurements in the thread)
PROPERLY and COMPLETELY bleed the ENTIRE brake system just as you would on any conventional brake system. VOILA!
Brakes the work, feel good, perform as well as any system on the market, and reliable!


others have found other parts that will work too.
Do what you want, think what you want, criticize if you must, but...
Bottom line, the conversion works and works well IF YOU DO IT RIGHT!
 
I don't have any complaints with mine. I've heard a few people complain about them, but I don't know if they're being picky or something isn't right in their system.

I picked up the junction block and a master cylinder from a 93 Grand Marquis, all of the necessary lines, bought a longer bolt, and adjusted it nicely. It doesn't feel any different than my '94.
 
I really like stock breaks in my '94 but I need space under the front vendor where the massive valve box sits for transmission coolers.
________________
Watch TV Online
 
My findings have been well documented in the swap thread.
LOVE the feel of my brakes!
Perform as good as any other system out there.
The idea behind swapping the systems is WHEN your TevesII system goes out, instead of replacing the parts or the whole MC that can cost an arm and a leg... you can do swap to a reliable non-ABS system for ALOT less than the ABS system.

IF you do it all the right way...

Parts documented
T-Bird booster
CV Master
T-Bird vacuum line
T-Bird booster check valve
Hardware store push rod bolt

Adjust the pushrod bolt to the PROPER length (AGAIN, pictures and measurements in the thread)
PROPERLY and COMPLETELY bleed the ENTIRE brake system just as you would on any conventional brake system. VOILA!
Brakes the work, feel good, perform as well as any system on the market, and reliable!


others have found other parts that will work too.
Do what you want, think what you want, criticize if you must, but...
Bottom line, the conversion works and works well IF YOU DO IT RIGHT!

IF YOU DO IT RIGHT!!! has probably been done by alot of folks who still don't like the results. There is no way a set of conventional brakes are going to feel identical and respond identically to a FULLY FUNCTIONAL, WORKING PROPERLY Teves II system, and that is what people are getting at, and like.

Fraser
 
There is no way a set of conventional brakes are going to feel identical and respond identically to a FULLY FUNCTIONAL, WORKING PROPERLY Teves II system

Fraser


THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!

This is starting look like an SHOCK ARC/CONVENTIONAL thread.
You like what you like, others like what they like.

I have done both the ARC and ABS swaps to conventional brakes and non ARC shocks.

The original poster asked for opinions.
1. I like the feel of my non abs brakes
2. They perform as good as any other conventional brake system
3. Conventional brakes will not feel the same or perform the same as ABS
4. Now my brake system will not cost as much to make repairs(IF it is needed)

THERE IS MY OPINION.
Good luck with whatever it is you are looking for.
 
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