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Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 12:23 PM
I wasn't going to do anything with my car this year since i am planning on building a completely new engine. but i got a little bored and here is what I started. I have learned that the inlet plenum is a restiction for making big power. I decided to move the return plenum back a few inches to make more room for the inlet plenum. the inlet will be 4" aluminum tube with a holley 95 MM throttle body.

BLOWN38
02-26-2011, 12:39 PM
Cool! Man I need a TIG welder.:rolleyes:

fasterthanyou
02-26-2011, 12:42 PM
I wasn't going to do anything with my car this year since i am planning on building a completely new engine. but i got a little bored and here is what I started. I have learned that the inlet plenum is a restiction for making big power. I decided to move the return plenum back a few inches to make more room for the inlet plenum. the inlet will be 4" aluminum tube with a holley 95 MM throttle body.

is this going into a tbird? do you plan on cutting back the firewall to get this to fit?

David Neibert
02-26-2011, 12:54 PM
I wasn't going to do anything with my car this year since i am planning on building a completely new engine. but i got a little bored and here is what I started. I have learned that the inlet plenum is a restiction for making big power. I decided to move the return plenum back a few inches to make more room for the inlet plenum. the inlet will be 4" aluminum tube with a holley 95 MM throttle body.

Kevin,

Are you going to rework the MP casting or just build a new plenum from scratch ?

David

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 12:57 PM
Cool! Man I need a TIG welder.:rolleyes:

Chris, that was all done with a MIG with a spool gun

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 12:58 PM
is this going into a tbird? do you plan on cutting back the firewall to get this to fit?

this will be going in my thunderbird and it will be tight to the stock firewall

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 01:01 PM
Kevin,

Are you going to rework the MP casting or just build a new plenum from scratch ?

David

A new one from scratch. everything before the supercharger will be 4 inch alumunum tube

Magnum Powers
02-26-2011, 06:00 PM
Great job Kevin, a BIG thumbs up to you my friend!!!!


Charles

RGR
02-26-2011, 09:17 PM
Suh-WEET!
Looks like you have addressed everything but the small blower and
the "pancake" manifold restrictions. Also, great news that you can
do quality welds with a spool gun! That is our setup, but waiting for
Warmer weather to weld, no good indoor welding shop :mad:

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 09:52 PM
Suh-WEET!
Looks like you have addressed everything but the small blower and
the "pancake" manifold restrictions. Also, great news that you can
do quality welds with a spool gun! That is our setup, but waiting for
Warmer weather to weld, no good indoor welding shop :mad:

Thanks, but I wouldn't call them quality. I would rather have a TIG. But it gets the job done. Its just been fun seeing how fast I can make this little M90 go! The next engine will be serious with either a F1r or F2 supercharger. Running on 100% methanol,high rise sheet metal intake, with BIG Stuff III running it.

Toms-SC
02-26-2011, 10:16 PM
Kevin have you ever considered stepping to a 4.5L SVO?

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 11:49 PM
Kevin have you ever considered stepping to a 4.5L SVO?

no, i have desire to do so. i enjoy making the parts to go fast. it would be too easy with the 4.5:D. if i stray away from the 3.8 it will be a 600 plus inch moter

Kevin Leitem
02-26-2011, 11:52 PM
some pics of todays progress. Welds arn't pretty I will clean them up more tomorrow

fturner
02-27-2011, 10:00 AM
It'll be interesting to see the results.....

Fraser

kenewagner
02-27-2011, 10:08 AM
Nobody likes modifing parts like me, but in many previous threads it was agreed that the lower intake could only flow so much air, and mods increasing voluum in werent a real improvement. Am I wrong there???

Ken

Roadhawg
02-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Nobody likes modifing parts like me, but in many previous threads it was agreed that the lower intake could only flow so much air, and mods increasing voluum in werent a real improvement. Am I wrong there???

Ken

I think the key here is to move the return farther back, to allow for a larger inlet plenum.

Kevin Leitem
02-27-2011, 10:45 AM
I think the key here is to move the return farther back, to allow for a larger inlet plenum.

you are correct.

kenewagner
02-27-2011, 10:51 AM
I think the key here is to move the return farther back, to allow for a larger inlet plenum.

Cant agree with that. I enlarged my plenum and the inlet to the lower intake but in previous threads it was agreed that the lower intake could only flow so much air through the individual ports and that the stock inlet was enough. I had already increased the size of my inlet by than. Now raising the roof of the lower intake seemed to show merit for very high RPM motors, if I remember right, but other than that going to 4" inlet on the intake seems to be over kill. I am in left field here or not

Ken

Kevin Leitem
02-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Cant agree with that. I enlarged my plenum and the inlet to the lower intake but in previous threads it was agreed that the lower intake could only flow so much air through the individual ports and that the stock inlet was enough. I had already increased the size of my inlet by than. Now raising the roof of the lower intake seemed to show merit for very high RPM motors, if I remember right, but other than that going to 4" inlet on the intake seems to be over kill. I am in left field here or not

Ken
i think you are misunderstanding what parts we are talking about. inlet plenum= to the supercharger return plenum = to intake manifold
the tube going to the lower intake manifold is 3.5 inches the same as all my intercooler tubes. all the work on the intake was done just to move it back to allow more room to make a new intake to the supercharger. that will be all 4 inch from the air filter to the supercharger.

kenewagner
02-27-2011, 12:37 PM
i think you are misunderstanding what parts we are talking about. inlet plenum= to the supercharger return plenum = to intake manifold
the tube going to the lower intake manifold is 3.5 inches the same as all my intercooler tubes. all the work on the intake was done just to move it back to allow more room to make a new intake to the supercharger. that will be all 4 inch from the air filter to the supercharger.

I understand now that the TB plenum will now have room to be expanded, which is a great deal. I didnt realize your IC tubes were 3.5":eek: My are 3" and are really big so I can appriciate the monster 3.5 you have on there. I still think the limiting factor is how much air the pathetic pancake manifold can deliver to each port. So the 3.5" return tubes still seems to big, heck my is 3" all the way and they are probably more than the manifold can flow. Are you still using a M90 blower?

Ken

Kevin Leitem
02-27-2011, 12:48 PM
I understand now that the TB plenum will now have room to be expanded, which is a great deal. I didnt realize your IC tubes were 3.5":eek: My are 3" and are really big so I can appriciate the monster 3.5 you have on there. I still think the limiting factor is how much air the pathetic pancake manifold can deliver to each port. So the 3.5" return tubes still seems to big, heck my is 3" all the way and they are probably more than the manifold can flow. Are you still using a M90 blower?

Ken

i know the intake is still a restriction. but it has been opened up some . i had it extrude honed. but i am not too worried about it since it is under pressure. but any restrictions before the sc is huge because it is not under pressure. that is what i am trying to solve. i still have the MPX on the car

Mike8675309
02-27-2011, 02:15 PM
For the most part, the issue related to limited plenum volume is pressure drop. I'm sure Charles at Magnum Power could speak directly to this, but in essence, as the intake valve opens pressure differential causes air from the plenum to push it's way through the intake port past the valve and into the cylinder.

As the plenum expands (it expands by the volume of the cylinder) there is a pressure drop in the plenum. Typically, this pressure drop is mitigated by the blower continuing to generate pressure. Thus if you were to have a high resolution pressure sensor in the intake manifold. You could see these cylinder pressure pulses. These pulses will have a wave form that you could plot where the pressure drops and raises back up, with a duration of the drop.

It is the duration of the drop that is impacted by the plenum volume. Less plenum volume, and you have a higher recovery time from pressure reductions. More plenum volume and you have less recovery time from pressure reductions.

At 4500 rpm and 12 psi, the changes in duration are essentially a non-factor. But at 6500rpm and 21psi, what was a non-factor starts becoming a factor.

By increasing the plenum size, you are increasing the engines ability to dampen pressure drops at the intake valve. Note that there are limitations to larger plenums as well. A larger plenum will respond slower to throttle changes than a smaller plenum. For our positive displacement blowers this means that with a larger plenum, it will take longer to build boost (than if you had a smaller plenum).

all that said, in general, for positive displacement blowers, the ideal plenum size is exactly the size necessary to maintain pressure for engine consumption. No bigger or smaller. For turbo's and centrifugal blowers, a much larger plenum size has advantages. It has been generally decided that our stock intake plenum is too small for 400+ rwhp motors.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=88498&page=79

XR7 Dave
02-27-2011, 07:19 PM
Mike, what you are talking about is true from an engineering standpoint but that is really of much secondary importance. Feeding the blower so that it doesn't draw a vacuum at it's inlet has compound benefits compared to any improvement of the intake manifold.

As for roots blowers and intake manifold volume, there again most engineering theory can be more or less tossed out the window when it comes to an SC engine because our manifolds are not strictly defined by set dimensions - our manifolds partially include the return plenum and IC tubes up until the point that airflow can't keep up with each individual cylinder's demand for air. In other words, unless you can determine the point up the IC plumbing at which the pressure pulses are no longer measurable, you can't define a specific volume for our intake manifold. My SWAG is that the ability of the system to equalize the pressure wave phenomenon in the intake manifold gradually decreases as you get further away from the open plenum and therefore is not a finite measurement.

We have had issues with the SC for as long as people have been modifying them determining which the biggest rocks are with respect to unlocking performance. I think Kevin is on the right path to removing one of the biggest rocks that we have been fighting against. I say this because I have not seen factual evidence supporting the idea that the M90 can't move more air than we have seen it moving. Other platforms have no trouble moving enough air to hit 400rwhp+ with an M90, so that tells me that we have a different issue.

rapper33142
02-28-2011, 03:03 AM
Nice job man thanks for not giving up on the m90 lol

Magnum Powers
02-28-2011, 08:41 PM
Hey Kevin, how about this plenum for your setup? The inside diameter is 3.25" but you could cut it up and bump it up to 4" I think.

Charles

Roadhawg
02-28-2011, 09:01 PM
Hey Kevin, how about this plenum for your setup? The inside diameter is 3.25" but you could cut it up and bump it up to 4" I think.

Charles

I guess those guys with the Honda setup are struggling. I would venture to say I am just about the only one using a Magnum Powers front outlet top.
On a side note, I was thinking about modifying an intake in a similar fashion as Kevin.

Magnum Powers
02-28-2011, 09:11 PM
I guess those guys with the Honda setup are struggling. I would venture to say I am just about the only one using a Magnum Powers front outlet top.
On a side note, I was thinking about modifying an intake in a similar fashion as Kevin.

They sure are. After the shop was cut into and $30K of race stuff stolen they left the race car outside when that cold front went through South Carolina leaving a cracked block block in its wake. :(

Charles

Kevin Leitem
02-28-2011, 10:51 PM
Hey Kevin, how about this plenum for your setup? The inside diameter is 3.25" but you could cut it up and bump it up to 4" I think.

Charles

that is a very cool piece, but the trouble cutting it and adding to it will probably be as much work as making one from scratch. but that may work for others that might want to do an upgrade like mine.

XxSlowpokexX
03-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Mike, what you are talking about is true from an engineering standpoint but that is really of much secondary importance. Feeding the blower so that it doesn't draw a vacuum at it's inlet has compound benefits compared to any improvement of the intake manifold.

As for roots blowers and intake manifold volume, there again most engineering theory can be more or less tossed out the window when it comes to an SC engine because our manifolds are not strictly defined by set dimensions - our manifolds partially include the return plenum and IC tubes up until the point that airflow can't keep up with each individual cylinder's demand for air. In other words, unless you can determine the point up the IC plumbing at which the pressure pulses are no longer measurable, you can't define a specific volume for our intake manifold. My SWAG is that the ability of the system to equalize the pressure wave phenomenon in the intake manifold gradually decreases as you get further away from the open plenum and therefore is not a finite measurement.

We have had issues with the SC for as long as people have been modifying them determining which the biggest rocks are with respect to unlocking performance. I think Kevin is on the right path to removing one of the biggest rocks that we have been fighting against. I say this because I have not seen factual evidence supporting the idea that the M90 can't move more air than we have seen it moving. Other platforms have no trouble moving enough air to hit 400rwhp+ with an M90, so that tells me that we have a different issue.

4.6 with m90 <400rwhp
4.6 bored to 5.0 Cams/head porting other mods..A bit over 400rwhp.

As soon as I get my 4.6 (forged motor head work and cams)with a modified MPX Ill let you all know what the junker does..Not expecting much

Surgin
03-01-2011, 09:19 PM
I guess those guys with the Honda setup are struggling. I would venture to say I am just about the only one using a Magnum Powers front outlet top.
On a side note, I was thinking about modifying an intake in a similar fashion as Kevin.

Didnt you have to modify it to fit? Get it to point straight?


Justin

fasterthanyou
03-01-2011, 09:50 PM
I guess those guys with the Honda setup are struggling. I would venture to say I am just about the only one using a Magnum Powers front outlet top.
On a side note, I was thinking about modifying an intake in a similar fashion as Kevin.
I like the MP front exit but couldn't afford it back when I made my own fmic setup. I used some 1/4" aluminum and made my own front exit top. doesn't look good but gets the job done. If I had the money I'd switch to an MP top asap.

Roadhawg
03-01-2011, 10:04 PM
Didnt you have to modify it to fit? Get it to point straight?


Justin


I did modify the MP front outlet. The outlet was modified to point slightly downward to ensure hood clearance.

CMac89
03-01-2011, 11:29 PM
Where's the F3 Procharger, Kevin?

XR7 Dave
03-02-2011, 09:25 AM
4.6 with m90 <400rwhp
4.6 bored to 5.0 Cams/head porting other mods..A bit over 400rwhp.

As soon as I get my 4.6 (forged motor head work and cams)with a modified MPX Ill let you all know what the junker does..Not expecting much

How much power it makes is mostly irrelevant unless you know how much air is actually flowing through the inlet and what the efficiency level of the SC is. In some of the high(er) hp SC's the M90's VE falls off really badly when there is no reason (from a supercharger standpoint) for that to be happening. If supercharger VE falls off then power gains will die also and you will not know why without the airflow data. I'd be curious what the Allen inlet flows. That would tell a lot more about what the power potential of the package is.

XxSlowpokexX
03-02-2011, 10:20 AM
My allen inlet has been enlarged and modified for use with the MPX. I will only be running a 75mm TB however. If I make numbers closer to what Ive seen on stroker or bored allen applications Id say the inlet may have been a factor. Th eon eguy that did make over 400rwhp with a 5.0 mod had his allen kit converted for an MPX as well with a pretty large looking custom inlet

XR7 Dave
03-02-2011, 10:46 AM
My allen inlet has been enlarged and modified for use with the MPX. I will only be running a 75mm TB however. If I make numbers closer to what Ive seen on stroker or bored allen applications Id say the inlet may have been a factor. Th eon eguy that did make over 400rwhp with a 5.0 mod had his allen kit converted for an MPX as well with a pretty large looking custom inlet

The 75mm TB will not properly support 400rwhp so that will be your biggest problem.

neverfastenough
03-02-2011, 11:12 AM
Where's the F3 Procharger, Kevin?

I thought he was filling the block, running meth and a bullseye s374r turbo. 40-45psi 1100rwhp and some 8 sec passes

XxSlowpokexX
03-02-2011, 02:38 PM
The 75mm TB will not properly support 400rwhp so that will be your biggest problem.

Properly I guess is Key. If I happen to make numbers close to that 5.0 guy I will consider reworeking inlet again for an even larger TB. If its that much a restriction it be worth the cost

David Neibert
03-02-2011, 03:37 PM
Properly I guess is Key. If I happen to make numbers close to that 5.0 guy I will consider reworeking inlet again for an even larger TB. If its that much a restriction it be worth the cost

Should be a lot of used 85mm TBs up for sale this spring/summer.

David

XxSlowpokexX
03-02-2011, 03:58 PM
Id have one being I bough tin on a 90 from MP

fturner
03-02-2011, 07:42 PM
Should be a lot of used 85mm TBs up for sale this spring/summer.

David

How so????

No one is making, or has the interest in making, a bigger inlet plenum for the MPX besides Kevin and maybe myself. And since the regular MPX plenum doesn't even flow enough air to support an 85mm throttle body, whats the point in going bigger there?

Fraser

nickleman60
03-02-2011, 07:51 PM
How so????

No one is making, or has the interest in making, a bigger inlet plenum for the MPX besides Kevin and maybe myself. And since the regular MPX plenum doesn't even flow enough air to support an 85mm throttle body, whats the point in going bigger there?

Fraser

I don't think anyone bought the new big MP throttle body to use with an MPx Frazier. I'm sure most bought it to use with a AR or Whipple.

fturner
03-02-2011, 07:54 PM
I don't think anyone bought the new big MP throttle body to use with an MPx Frazier. I'm sure most bought it to use with a AR or Whipple.

Funny you say that, I know several folks that bought/will be buying, the big dog TB to use with the MPX....

Fraser

nickleman60
03-02-2011, 07:58 PM
Funny you say that, I know several folks that bought/will be buying, the big dog TB to use with the MPX....

Fraser

If that's the case then I see your point.

Kevin Leitem
03-02-2011, 08:07 PM
Where's the F3 Procharger, Kevin?

i haven't bought anything yet, i may change my mind

Roadhawg
03-02-2011, 08:27 PM
Should be a lot of used 85mm TBs up for sale this spring/summer.

David

My old 85mm throttlebody will most likely end up on the SC engine going in my daughter's Mustang.

CMac89
03-02-2011, 08:34 PM
i haven't bought anything yet, i may change my mind

What else did you have in mind?

DrFishbone
03-02-2011, 09:05 PM
Lookin' good Kevin! Interested to see the results... :cool:

Kevin Leitem
03-02-2011, 09:28 PM
What else did you have in mind?

I was just kidding that I may still get a F3

neverfastenough
03-02-2011, 09:41 PM
I was just kidding that I may still get a F3

Why avoid the turbo:( Come on man, come on.

<embed src="http://www.videohippy.com/player.swf" width="555" height="431" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="width=555&height=431&file=http://www.videohippy.com/flvideos/../flvideos/205484.flv&image=http://www.videohippy.com/thumb/1_205484.jpg&displayheight=270&link=http://www.videohippy.com/video/205484/Family-Guy--Come-on&searchbar=false&linkfromdisplay=true&recommendations=http://www.videohippy.com/feed_embed.php?v=zDhThhrdUY&feature=y" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" />

CMac89
03-02-2011, 09:58 PM
He's too afraid to have an eight second car. Let him get there slowly.

Kevin Leitem
03-02-2011, 10:23 PM
Why avoid the turbo:( Come on man, come on.

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not at all interested. don't like the soft hits on the line. i would rather run 9.9 at 135 than 9.9 at 150. blower cars are easier to work on. easier to tune and can not overboost. just more reliable and easier for every weekend racing. not to mention safer by going through the traps slower. i am not looking for dyno numbers. and hp bragging rights. just timeslips.

but keep the ribbing going. i won't stop and i hope you won't either. its fun

neverfastenough
03-02-2011, 10:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AixMYdqFnFo

just a 1.29

kenewagner
03-02-2011, 10:33 PM
not at all interested. don't like the soft hits on the line. i would rather run 9.9 at 135 than 9.9 at 150. blower cars are easier to work on. easier to tune and can not overboost. just more reliable and easier for every weekend racing. not to mention safer by going through the traps slower. i am not looking for dyno numbers. and hp bragging rights. just timeslips.

but keep the ribbing going. i won't stop and i hope you won't either. its fun

My way of thinking, exactly;)

Ken

CMac89
03-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Kevin, you have some 'splainin to doooooo! It's okay, I know you aren't used to it. Just take baby steps and you'll get there!

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BLOWN38
03-02-2011, 11:06 PM
But they always lose the race cause the green light is on for an hour before the turbo is spooled.:rolleyes:

Kevin Leitem
03-02-2011, 11:14 PM
not 1 of those videos helped your case. thanks for helping mine. 1500 hp running mid 8's? i run mid to high 1.3 60's in a low 10's car with a 28X10 tire. a 1.29 in a low 9 car is not great. not to mention they are probably hitting it with nitrous off the line just to get that. you 2 need to stop counting the chickens before they hatch.

XR7 Dave
03-02-2011, 11:24 PM
They are just making excuses trying to justify why they ruined their SC's.

CMac89
03-02-2011, 11:35 PM
not 1 of those videos helped your case. thanks for helping mine. 1500 hp running mid 8's? i run mid to high 1.3 60's in a low 10's car with a 28X10 tire. a 1.29 in a low 9 car is not great. not to mention they are probably hitting it with nitrous off the line just to get that. you 2 need to stop counting the chickens before they hatch.

Contradiction: If it actually had 1500rwhp, then it would have went 200mph. Counting on turbo cars to MPH is something that you already agreed with multiple amount of times. :0)

60 ft all depends on the car used. You will not see a factory style chassis car running much faster than a 1.29 60 ft. One of our SuperStockers runs 9.0's and it will only 60 ft 1.18-1.22. From a 10 second car to a 7 second car you have a range of 1.05 to 1.3 60 foots, so there isn't a big advantage on 60 foots given that range. He's just saying that the turbo car wasn't lazy.

Aaaaannddd theeeennn, you're just taking a stab in the dark with the nitrous statement. Coulda woulda sshooouullddaaaa! With a 5500 Converter, trans-brake, and an anti-lag (you have all of these) you wouldn't have aaaannnyyyy problems. :0)

A centrifugal blower is in the middle of a turbo and positive displacement. You'll be fighting drive ratios and launch RPM instead of timing and launch RPM.

Out of chickens, for now!:)

neverfastenough
03-02-2011, 11:43 PM
You all can nit pick any turbo car, the fact is all those v6 turbo buicks are turning faster/quicker than any super coupe ever has. Thats just a bit of jealousy coming from you guys. Yea 9's with 1500 is anything but efficient. Still fast.......

I thought the point of drag racing was winning. If you go 9.99 at 131, congrats your chassis is tits, but the turbo car going 9.80 at 145 still pooped on your parade.

If heavy 6spd 1000whp supras are running 9/8's banging gears and cooking the tires, a nice setup car like yours with similar power...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq_9BcEdibc

EDIT: Im not comparing supras to birds, or gn's to birds. Im saying a turbo on kevins car can leave just as hard as his mpx, or cent, and one could easily push it into the 9's, and lower if he wants to run some boost.

Kevin Leitem
03-03-2011, 12:08 AM
well, i am willing to bet good money that when you go to the track you will stop yapping:D

all i got to say that the quickest and fastest sc still has an m90 on it!

the buicks have aftermarket support, great heads, aluminum blocks, intakes and a slew of good parts. it ain't just slapping a bigger turbo on it.


but i do hope you prove me wrong. i hope your cars run the way you hope they should.

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 12:11 AM
well, i am willing to bet good money that when you go to the track you will stop yapping:D

all i got to say that the quickest and fastest sc still has an m90 on it!

the buicks have aftermarket support, great heads, aluminum blocks, intakes and a slew of good parts. it ain't just slapping a bigger turbo on it.


but i do hope you prove me wrong. i hope your cars run the way you hope they should.

Well mine wont, my car will never prove to be a better combination than yours, Im not willing to do the mods it takes. I need to beat ira, or lurdorf since hes going to have the fastest 5spd car we're told. If the turbo cars out prove them, then its up to one of us to go auto, and thats not going to happen. Maybe wise's old car will step up to the plate. BUT if the number is only 9.99, I think a turbo sc could row the boat there.

Kevin Leitem
03-03-2011, 12:15 AM
You all can nit pick any turbo car, the fact is all those v6 turbo buicks are turning faster/quicker than any super coupe ever has. Thats just a bit of jealousy coming from you guys. Yea 9's with 1500 is anything but efficient. Still fast.......

I thought the point of drag racing was winning. If you go 9.99 at 131, congrats your chassis is tits, but the turbo car going 9.80 at 145 still pooped on your parade.

If heavy 6spd 1000whp supras are running 9/8's banging gears and cooking the tires, a nice setup car like yours with similar power...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq_9BcEdibc

EDIT: Im not comparing supras to birds, or gn's to birds. Im saying a turbo on kevins car can leave just as hard as his mpx, or cent, and one could easily push it into the 9's, and lower if he wants to run some boost.

i know it would run 9's if i turboed mine. but to me the cons of a turbo far outweighs the pros of a centrifugal . i know mine will make less hp. but i also know it will be easier, quicker, safer, and i won't piss of the guy in the other lane while i take forever to spool. i am not building a car to take to the track once or twice a year after i made a hundred dyno pulls getting it just perfect.

David Neibert
03-03-2011, 01:06 AM
Even with my best RT ever (.005) the turbo 4 cylinder Mustang I had to race in this video, blew by me at mid track like I was sitting still.

http://vimeo.com/7191896

David

XxSlowpokexX
03-03-2011, 01:30 PM
Well mine wont, my car will never prove to be a better combination than yours, Im not willing to do the mods it takes. I need to beat ira, or lurdorf since hes going to have the fastest 5spd car we're told. If the turbo cars out prove them, then its up to one of us to go auto, and thats not going to happen. Maybe wise's old car will step up to the plate. BUT if the number is only 9.99, I think a turbo sc could row the boat there.

Winning races is all about consistancy not ultimate power. If you want ultimate power yah go with a turbo or two.

Roadhawg
03-03-2011, 01:49 PM
Winning races is all about consistancy not ultimate power. If you want ultimate power yah go with a turbo or two.

So........Do woodchucks really chuck wood?

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 01:53 PM
Yes, wise still has the fastest time streetable Sc w/o nitrous, I think. On a shake down pass. Actually 10.67 so fastest street Sc period AFAIK

XR7 Dave
03-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Yes, wise still has the fastest time streetable Sc w/o nitrous, I think. On a shake down pass. Actually 10.67 so fastest street Sc period AFAIK

Do you even know what you are mumbling about? :confused:

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 02:05 PM
He used a turbo, went faster than every blower car with an interior. Why yes, I do kno what I'm mumbling about, did it on street wheels and DR's also. Woodchucks chuck wood

XR7 Dave
03-03-2011, 02:09 PM
He used a turbo, went faster than every blower car with an interior. Why yes, I do kno what I'm mumbling about, did it on street wheels and DR's also. Woodchucks chuck wood

How much boost?

Anyway, who cares? It's no different than any other mod that you do to your car, everything has pro's and con's. Personally I think your turbo is "thegeyness". I'm glad you like it though, because you put a lot of money and work into it.

Kevin Leitem
03-03-2011, 03:01 PM
He used a turbo, went faster than every blower car with an interior. Why yes, I do kno what I'm mumbling about, did it on street wheels and DR's also. Woodchucks chuck wood

Umm he took out the seats.I still had and have both seats and rear seat. Keep on mumbling there. When these so called street cars are on the track they are no different. Thet take out all the weight,add race gas, add slicks. So they are not the same car as when on street

kenewagner
03-03-2011, 03:27 PM
He used a turbo, went faster than every blower car with an interior. Why yes, I do kno what I'm mumbling about, did it on street wheels and DR's also. Woodchucks chuck wood

He might have done that but when are you going to show up with numbers other than a dyno sheet:rolleyes::D:D. Cant hang on to someone elses shirt tails;)

Ken

Dahoopd
03-03-2011, 03:30 PM
He we go again, a thread starts out with someone doing something good for an sc and it ends up 5 pages later with my balls are bigger than yours, my dad can beat yours........................etc!

Im taking my ball and going home now.

kenewagner
03-03-2011, 03:58 PM
He we go again, a thread starts out with someone doing something good for an sc and it ends up 5 pages later with my balls are bigger than yours, my dad can beat yours........................etc!

Im taking my ball and going home now.

Calm down and take a chill pill:p The forums are a little slow this time of year, gotta have a little fun;)

Ken

David Neibert
03-03-2011, 04:25 PM
Corey,

Pretty sure the majority of these guys are going to remain supercharged, no matter what kind of dyno numbers or ETs you or the other turbocharged cars manage to accomplish.

I like anything that makes them faster or keeps them on the road longer :cool:

David

PS: I predict a turbo vs. supercharger final for the fastest two cars at the Shootout this year.

Dahoopd
03-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Calm down and take a chill pill:p The forums are a little slow this time of year, gotta have a little fun;)

Ken

Ken,

I wasn't upset by any means. The proof is in the pudding and at the end of the year when the shoot out arrives. You get to see who has the best pudding.

Turbo or Blower, doesnt matter to me. I just want an SC that runs more than 5 months out of the year.

90blkbrd
03-03-2011, 04:49 PM
I just want an SC that runs more than 5 months out of the year.

5 months might be my total for the last 3 years. :eek:

SCrazy
03-03-2011, 04:58 PM
5 months might be my total for the last 3 years. :eek:

Me too.....far more time wrenching then driving lately.

ricardoa1
03-03-2011, 05:00 PM
Dont make bring Stone back into the conversation, he is the only one that knows what's up with turbos and superchargers. And the only one with the last word.



http://www.wearyourbeer.com/images/Keystone_Keith_Gray_Shirt.jpg

ricardoa1
03-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Me too.....far more time wrenching then driving lately.


I wrench it but the car wont start, I might have fouled the plugs. Dont feel like taking apart anymore. So my KeyStone towel was thrown in.

CMac89
03-03-2011, 05:39 PM
I like everything on SCs. The only thing I wouldn't try is nitrous. Turbo, centrifugal, and roots/twin screw are good in my book. Life is too short to think and act one dimensionally.

I used to bash turbos and I agree with the reasoning why people wouldn't want one. I'm an engineer, which means I like to take challenges. If everyone ran away whenever something becomes slightly complex, then we would all still be shooting muskets and running M90s. (JK, Kev!)

A turbo is something that one can only get fed up with, not bored from. That's a good trade-off for me.

Roadhawg
03-03-2011, 06:30 PM
PS: I predict a turbo vs. supercharger final for the fastest two cars at the Shootout this year.

I have been thinking about doing a compound boost setup, using a turbo to feed the MPX.

David Neibert
03-03-2011, 06:41 PM
I have been thinking about doing a compound boost setup, using a turbo to feed the MPX.

I'd really like to see you do that. I thought pretty seriously about doing it to my 91, then decided to build another car with a v8 turbo instead.

I think it would make some impressive power with only 4 or 5 psi at the blower inlet.

David

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 06:47 PM
I have been thinking about doing a compound boost setup, using a turbo to feed the MPX.

You need my setup, tb is in stock Sc tb location, it will go right on a stock Sc with a/c removed

Mercutio
03-03-2011, 07:04 PM
Even with my best RT ever (.005) the turbo 4 cylinder Mustang I had to race in this video, blew by me at mid track like I was sitting still.

http://vimeo.com/7191896

David

That's John Huber's car, isn't it? If so, no shame in losing to that car.

Roadhawg
03-03-2011, 07:06 PM
I'd really like to see you do that. I thought pretty seriously about doing it to my 91, then decided to build another car with a v8 turbo instead.

I think it would make some impressive power with only 4 or 5 psi at the blower inlet.

David

Since I am turbo illiterate, I guess my biggest dilemma is what size turbo to use.


You need my setup, tb is in stock Sc tb location, it will go right on a stock Sc with a/c removed

I was thinking of locating the turbo on the driver's side, with the the discharge going to a smaller intercooler above my current FMIC. Then connecting the outlet of that intercooler to my MAF. I figure one of those ricer blowoff valves would be need before the MAF.

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 07:55 PM
Since I am turbo illiterate, I guess my biggest dilemma is what size turbo to use.



I was thinking of locating the turbo on the driver's side, with the the discharge going to a smaller intercooler above my current FMIC. Then connecting the outlet of that intercooler to my MAF. I figure one of those ricer blowoff valves would be need before the MAF.

Pre maf would be a recirculating valve, no noise really. Post maf would need a blow off.

Roadhawg
03-03-2011, 08:20 PM
Pre maf would be a recirculating valve, no noise really. Post maf would need a blow off.

Seems a post Maf blow off valve would discharge air that has already been metered or accounted for. :confused:

neverfastenough
03-03-2011, 08:37 PM
Seems a post Maf blow off valve would discharge air that has already been metered or accounted for. :confused:

Yea my bad, post turbo is bov and would need to be before a blow thru maf. Been a long day.:o

David Neibert
03-03-2011, 08:40 PM
That's John Huber's car, isn't it? If so, no shame in losing to that car.

Yeah...it was John Huber. I was just hoping he would break something.

David

Mercutio
03-03-2011, 08:47 PM
Yeah...it was John Huber. I was just hoping he would break something.

David

That is an insanely quick car. I remember watching him run True Street at Bowling Green a few years back. Did the cruise and ran 4 back to back at 9.6-9.8. Massive wheelstands, too. I've got a pic of him from WFC with the rear bumper on the ground.

Kurt K
03-04-2011, 01:10 AM
That is an insanely quick car. I remember watching him run True Street at Bowling Green a few years back. Did the cruise and ran 4 back to back at 9.6-9.8. Massive wheelstands, too. I've got a pic of him from WFC with the rear bumper on the ground.I've lost to Huber too...I think he passed me with his front wheels in the air.:eek:

fturner
03-04-2011, 09:43 AM
Since I am turbo illiterate, I guess my biggest dilemma is what size turbo to use.



I was thinking of locating the turbo on the driver's side, with the the discharge going to a smaller intercooler above my current FMIC. Then connecting the outlet of that intercooler to my MAF. I figure one of those ricer blowoff valves would be need before the MAF.

You won't be needing the pre-intercooler. Since you'll only be making 4-5psi of boost from the turbo, you won't have to worry about heat. Also the blower won't be making more than 10psi at most on its own, there won't be alot of heat to deal with there either. You'll be close to 20psi all said and done and the main intercooler and snow kit can take care of that.

Fraser

nickleman60
03-04-2011, 05:43 PM
The only thing I wouldn't try is nitrous.

Why not? I know alot of people don't care for it on this forum but my car has gains of 1.1 seconds on a 100 shot, according to my best runs with and without it. I know it can be volatile and things can go wrong when using it but it sure compliments my motor as a great second power adder for the track only. I hope I keep that 1.1 gain while using it with my new upcoming mods, can we say low 10 second time slip?....;)

Roadhawg
03-04-2011, 07:23 PM
You won't be needing the pre-intercooler. Since you'll only be making 4-5psi of boost from the turbo, you won't have to worry about heat. Also the blower won't be making more than 10psi at most on its own, there won't be alot of heat to deal with there either. You'll be close to 20psi all said and done and the main intercooler and snow kit can take care of that.

Fraser

That answers the pre-intercooler idea. The next thing I need to figure out is what turbo to run in combo with the MPX to get around 550hp. :)

seawalkersee
03-04-2011, 10:20 PM
Not that I don't love a good pissin' match, but I have yet to see vids of Corey's or Casey's car. In fact, I don't think they run:D...so they look like me sitting in the stands or bench racing.

On a serious note, It looks like you made a pinch point below your added top on the rear of that. If you are running 4" tubing all the way through, but have what looks like the factory opening size in the rear. Obviously can't tell from the pix how much the rear of that actually raises up in the rear to pinch off the inlet, but I am just looking at the opening.

How much boost are you going to run this year? Are you thinking it will raise with the lower restriction pre-blower?

SWS

neverfastenough
03-04-2011, 10:32 PM
Not that I don't love a good pissin' match, but I have yet to see vids of Corey's or Casey's car. In fact, I don't think they run:D...so they look like me sitting in the stands or bench racing.

On a serious note, It looks like you made a pinch point below your added top on the rear of that. If you are running 4" tubing all the way through, but have what looks like the factory opening size in the rear. Obviously can't tell from the pix how much the rear of that actually raises up in the rear to pinch off the inlet, but I am just looking at the opening.

How much boost are you going to run this year? Are you thinking it will raise with the lower restriction pre-blower?

SWS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5tUwhkzXk

Turn the volume up and you car hear pedaling and rev limiter for 2 sec of the run and some revlimiter when I ran out of gear at the end. I was trying 28in tires for the first time, figured the tach was off and wanted to see how far it would go, coasted after that.

Kevin Leitem
03-04-2011, 11:21 PM
Not that I don't love a good pissin' match, but I have yet to see vids of Corey's or Casey's car. In fact, I don't think they run:D...so they look like me sitting in the stands or bench racing.

On a serious note, It looks like you made a pinch point below your added top on the rear of that. If you are running 4" tubing all the way through, but have what looks like the factory opening size in the rear. Obviously can't tell from the pix how much the rear of that actually raises up in the rear to pinch off the inlet, but I am just looking at the opening.

How much boost are you going to run this year? Are you thinking it will raise with the lower restriction pre-blower?

SWS

The opening going into the intake is 4.125 x2 =8.25 square inches. The pipe is 3.5 1/8 wall and the area is 8.29 square inches. I assume I will see more boost since more air should be able to come in. But I didn't care if that opening was bigger it was done to make room for the SC intake. The opening being bigger is just a bonus.

Kevin Leitem
03-04-2011, 11:47 PM
here is tonights progress, hopefully this will clear up what i am doing here

Mike8675309
03-04-2011, 11:56 PM
Looks good. Have you done some analysis that leads you to the dimensions here or just shooting for bigger?

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 12:00 AM
Looks good. Have you done some analysis that leads you to the dimensions here or just shooting for bigger?

bigger is always better ain't it? after talking with charles the intake to the supercharger is a real restriction to make over 400 hp

CMac89
03-05-2011, 02:36 AM
Looks great, Kevin. Definitely better to have the most volume you can. You said 3.5" tube. I thought you were doing a 4" tube?

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 08:14 AM
Looks great, Kevin. Definitely better to have the most volume you can. You said 3.5" tube. I thought you were doing a 4" tube?

3.5 is going into the intake manifold. 4 is going into the supercharger

nickleman60
03-05-2011, 08:21 AM
Looks pretty wild Kevin. Is the inlet to the supercharger going to have the same smiley face shape as the MPx?

Roadhawg
03-05-2011, 08:55 AM
Kevin, what is that large hole in the backside of #3 intake runner for?

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 09:28 AM
Looks pretty wild Kevin. Is the inlet to the supercharger going to have the same smiley face shape as the MPx?

It will when it is done. Just got basic shape last night

seawalkersee
03-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Looks pretty wild Kevin. Is the inlet to the supercharger going to have the same smiley face shape as the MPx?

Look at the top of the screen on the left side in the last pic. He has what looks like a template there for the inlet that looks like this ":D".

I understood what you were doing, I just wondered if the plan was to add boost or aim for the same psi that was previously running. Also, not sure what your previous inlet was so if there is less restriction there (where you added the extension), whould you think the boost would stay the same and hp/tq raise in the band?

SWS

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 09:34 AM
i do not see or understand that. referring to roadhawg

seawalkersee
03-05-2011, 09:39 AM
Misread. Delete.

nickleman60
03-05-2011, 09:39 AM
i do not see or understand that. referring to roadhawg

I didn't either till I looked at pic #2, on the bottom left corner of the intake plenum along the weld line it looks like there's a hole drilled right into the seam where the 2 sides meet.

seawalkersee
03-05-2011, 09:43 AM
It looks like he is talking about the bolt boss in the first pic next to the corner of the inlet (in the pic). It looks like it is in the rear of the intake runner.

SWS

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 09:46 AM
Look at the top of the screen on the left side in the last pic. He has what looks like a template there for the inlet that looks like this ":D".

I understood what you were doing, I just wondered if the plan was to add boost or aim for the same psi that was previously running. Also, not sure what your previous inlet was so if there is less restriction there (where you added the extension), whould you think the boost would stay the same and hp/tq raise in the band?

SWS

very good eyes there, detective. I think i should be able to turn the sc slower while possibly getting more boost . until now i had to spin it hard to create enough vacuum to try to suck the air in. now it should not get a vacuum in the inlet plenum

Roadhawg
03-05-2011, 09:46 AM
i do not see or understand that. referring to roadhawg

This is what I a referring to............. nevermind it is the dark bolted head my old eyes /shrug

seawalkersee
03-05-2011, 09:47 AM
Thats what I was trying to say. Thanks.

SWS

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 09:54 AM
I didn't either till I looked at pic #2, on the bottom left corner of the intake plenum along the weld line it looks like there's a hole drilled right into the seam where the 2 sides meet.

if it on the part i am making , then it is just a hole from my poor aluminum welding. which will be fixed after all the welding and smoothing is done

if it is the little 1/8 hole drilled in the intake manifold then that was for intake port matching to the heads.

fturner
03-05-2011, 10:56 AM
The vacuum on the intake side was what I was trying to point out in a previous thread, and why I was trying to encourage to have a new inlet plenum built for the MPX blower.

As stated then. I was running the MPX at 15% and have noted how well the MPX does with the motor going all the way up to 6200 rpm and boost stayed consistent until about 6000 or so. I also speculated that going to 25% OD would then lower the effective rpm because the MPX wasn't able to get enough air at that point.

Well, I've gone to 20% OD and have some interesting observations that fit with what I said before.

Of course folks didn't believe me then and just said the MPX was maxed out at that point :rolleyes:.

I'll be watching Kevin's experiment with interest and continuing to do testing on my setup....

Fraser

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 06:17 PM
cleaned up the outside welds

CMac89
03-05-2011, 06:23 PM
What do you plan on doing for a flange?

Looks good.

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 06:46 PM
What do you plan on doing for a flange?

Looks good.

i have a 3/8 piece that is ready to weld on. i will use that to match to the supercharger. i will be taking pics on the whole process in case anybody else wants to try

Mike8675309
03-05-2011, 09:09 PM
bigger is always better ain't it? after talking with charles the intake to the supercharger is a real restriction to make over 400 hp

I think the revision #xxx that is my rear plenum for the AR is one of the things that helped me get some decent numbers at fairly low rpm. With the upcoming 90mm throttle body, this will get re-worked as well as the inlet of the intake manifold. I'm not planning on going as dramatic as you, though maybe you'll get some results before I'm done. One concern I have is re-working anything that could change the air flow into the intake manifold without being able to verify things on a flow bench. It may be an excessive concern, but I feel that port balance is important, especially in a higher rpm race motor.

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 11:56 PM
I think the revision #xxx that is my rear plenum for the AR is one of the things that helped me get some decent numbers at fairly low rpm. With the upcoming 90mm throttle body, this will get re-worked as well as the inlet of the intake manifold. I'm not planning on going as dramatic as you, though maybe you'll get some results before I'm done. One concern I have is re-working anything that could change the air flow into the intake manifold without being able to verify things on a flow bench. It may be an excessive concern, but I feel that port balance is important, especially in a higher rpm race motor.

I would not be real worried about changing. people often think of NA "science" when it comes to air flow on a boosted moter. my theory is bigger is better on boosted engines. but anything before the compressor is where the main concern needs to be. that part is acting like a NA engine.

Kevin Leitem
03-05-2011, 11:58 PM
more pics from tonight

Kevin Leitem
03-09-2011, 11:01 PM
got the flange welded on and got the opening roughed in to the supercharger

neverfastenough
03-09-2011, 11:11 PM
got the flange welded on and got the opening roughed in to the supercharger

Very nice! going to be ready by spring?

Kevin Leitem
03-09-2011, 11:15 PM
Very nice! going to be ready by spring?

probably late spring. if your ever bored some weekend come on out.

Kevin Leitem
03-12-2011, 05:43 PM
a few more pics. my mass air meter will be put in the 4" intake tube. i cut apart a stock meter to use as a mounting pad for the electronics and drilled it to accept the C&L sample tubes.

I took the one pic to show you guys a visual difference between the 85mm and 95 mm throttle body.

Miller
03-16-2011, 09:41 PM
For the fuel rail, do you intend to just extend the hose and loop all the way around the return plenum ? looking at something similiar and was trying to figure on the rail.

Kevin Leitem
03-16-2011, 09:49 PM
For the fuel rail, do you intend to just extend the hose and loop all the way around the return plenum ? looking at something similiar and was trying to figure on the rail.

thats what i am planning on doing. it should work just fine. but i may also look into making larger rails

Kevin Leitem
03-17-2011, 09:42 PM
finally got some tubes tonight, here is what i got done tonight

Mike8675309
03-17-2011, 10:31 PM
looks like possible hood clearance issues? Regarless, good job. I wouldn't be too concerned about the fuel rails unless you seeing issues with controlling pressure due to too slow of a return.

Kevin Leitem
03-17-2011, 10:38 PM
looks like possible hood clearance issues? Regarless, good job. I wouldn't be too concerned about the fuel rails unless you seeing issues with controlling pressure due to too slow of a return.

hood closes,as of now at an idle i can't get pressure below 50

David Neibert
03-17-2011, 10:59 PM
finally got some tubes tonight, here is what i got done tonight

Kevin,

Looks real good. Are you doing a bypass ?

David

Kevin Leitem
03-17-2011, 11:02 PM
no, i actually have blocked the bypass for years.

CMac89
03-18-2011, 05:16 AM
Looks awesome. This is gonna be about the best you can get out of the M90. It should pick up nicely.

nickleman60
03-18-2011, 06:02 AM
Looks like it ought to flow pretty good.
For a street legal car with a wiper motor I don't think it would fit but it sure opens your eyes to possibilities of modifying you own. I can't wait to see your results/gains.

What effects does not having the crossover bring up besides always being in boost?

fturner
03-18-2011, 08:27 AM
With my experience of having a failed bypass, the boost is instantaneous right there in a split second, and you get that right at launch the millisecond you crack the throttle open.... one big serious problem

Since the blower is constantly in a state of boost so to speak, it gets red hot and produces red hot air even at idle. With the car sitting idling, I was seeing ACT's hitting 200+ within a minute or so.. and even with an FMIC it would get heat soaked in no time.

I'd actually reconsider that Kevin.. what you gain initially you're losing because of ACT's being out of control. With the bypass on there, you can probably bring in some more timing because the temps are not so high.

Fraser

Kevin Leitem
03-18-2011, 09:06 AM
With my experience of having a failed bypass, the boost is instantaneous right there in a split second, and you get that right at launch the millisecond you crack the throttle open.... one big serious problem

Since the blower is constantly in a state of boost so to speak, it gets red hot and produces red hot air even at idle. With the car sitting idling, I was seeing ACT's hitting 200+ within a minute or so.. and even with an FMIC it would get heat soaked in no time.

I'd actually reconsider that Kevin.. what you gain initially you're losing because of ACT's being out of control. With the bypass on there, you can probably bring in some more timing because the temps are not so high.

Fraser

I tried it years ago and found out that it did help on the quarter. I figured it was more from boost leaking by the bypass. Now with my air to water IC I never seen temps above 50 at idle. I would not reccomend it on a street car even though I did it for around 30000 miles with no advese effecta

On a run ACT never went above 45

David Neibert
03-18-2011, 12:02 PM
What effects does not having the crossover bring up besides always being in boost?

If you want to get a good idea of what it would be like not having the bypass valve, just pull the vacuum hose off the actuator. That hose fell off on my car and I drove it for two months and spent a stupid amount of money trying to figure out where the constant whinning noise was coming from. I even swapped torque converters.

You are not always in boost, and my vacuum gauge was reading the same as with the bypass functioning correctly. I didn't really notice that it got into boost any faster or that the car was running any worse because of the higher air charge temps...but the constant whinning of the supercharger was driving me nutts.

David

CMac89
03-18-2011, 12:09 PM
I've done that before, back when I had the M90, and I accidentally touched my forearm to the blower top. It gave me a blister.

nickleman60
03-18-2011, 05:47 PM
If you want to get a good idea of what it would be like not having the bypass valve, just pull the vacuum hose off the actuator. That hose fell off on my car and I drove it for two months and spent a stupid amount of money trying to figure out where the constant whinning noise was coming from. I even swapped torque converters.David

I bet when you found out what was wrong you went straight to the bathroom and washed that "STUPID" tatoo off of your forehead.............:p

As Larry the cable guy would say " I don't care what anyone says that's dang funny right there"......:D

ScrapSC
03-18-2011, 06:48 PM
Looks great Kevin!!! Looking forward to seeing what kind of gains this produces! Shame you dont live closer... LOL

Kevin Leitem
03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
Looks great Kevin!!! Looking forward to seeing what kind of gains this produces! Shame you dont live closer... LOL

Why is that? Want me to build you one?

Kevin Leitem
03-24-2011, 10:05 PM
almost done, i am going to have a weld shop tig the but welds. i just can't get them to look nice with the mig.

David Neibert
03-24-2011, 11:01 PM
Kevin,

Looks great ! Is that 4" pipe, and what are you doing for a MAF ?

David

Kevin Leitem
03-24-2011, 11:05 PM
Kevin,

Looks great ! Is that 4" pipe, and what are you doing for a MAF ?

David

David, look at the first pic in post 126. I took a stock MAF, cut off the part that the electronics attaches and then drilled it to accept C&L sample tubes. and yes that is 4" pipe

David Neibert
03-24-2011, 11:14 PM
David, look at the first pic in post 126. I took a stock MAF, cut off the part that the electronics attaches and then drilled it to accept C&L sample tubes. and yes that is 4" pipe

Okay, so you're going to graft/weld that portion into the 4" pipe ?

David

BLOWN38
03-24-2011, 11:16 PM
Looks good mang!

Kevin Leitem
03-24-2011, 11:19 PM
Okay, so you're going to graft/weld that portion into the 4" pipe ?

David
That is correct

SCrazy
03-25-2011, 07:54 AM
Were you able to use two 45s to roll that intake pipe down into the fender well??

Kevin Leitem
03-25-2011, 09:15 AM
Were you able to use two 45s to roll that intake pipe down into the fender well??

Yes, that is two 45's then a 90 to get it in front of the car

Roadhawg
03-25-2011, 09:39 AM
almost done, i am going to have a weld shop tig the but welds. i just can't get them to look nice with the mig.


That is some of the best car porn I have seen on here lately.

Kevin Leitem
03-25-2011, 11:33 AM
You know its bad when you are more scared to have your wife find you on summitracing.com than a porn site

Roadhawg
03-25-2011, 11:35 AM
You know its bad when you are more scared to have your wife find you on summitracing.com than a porn site

Mine starts to worry when I have the credit card in hand also. :eek:

SCrazy
03-25-2011, 11:39 AM
You know its bad when you are more scared to have your wife find you on summitracing.com than a porn site

Now that's funny....the big a$$ box with the fiberglass hood caused quite a stir at the Oatway house.

BKB
03-27-2011, 11:09 PM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/intake001.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/tom010.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/OC018.jpg

i raised the roof on my intake about 14 years ago, my motor always seemed to make more power then others with same mods. about 5 years ago i modified the return plenum with a devided runner and a magnum inlet plenum. cant say if it did much for power or not. car makes about 400rwhp and 430tq.

ricardoa1
03-28-2011, 11:06 AM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/intake001.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/tom010.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w268/BKB94/OC018.jpg

i raised the roof on my intake about 14 years ago, my motor always seemed to make more power then others with same mods. about 5 years ago i modified the return plenum with a devided runner and a magnum inlet plenum. cant say if it did much for power or not. car makes about 400rwhp and 430tq.


All that power with a 75MM TB? I guess Im skeptical what overdrive you running? looks like a stock pulley on the SC.

90coug
03-28-2011, 11:31 AM
Oh, I like the anodized purple! Good combo with the black, I'm such a color junkie! :p

At first I thought I was looking at another build from Ken.

neverfastenough
03-28-2011, 11:37 AM
All that power with a 75MM TB? I guess Im skeptical what overdrive you running? looks like a stock pulley on the SC.

Im skeptical cuz it has a mpx on it.

Roadhawg
03-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Im skeptical cuz it has a mpx on it.

That does not look like a MPX in the picture.

90coug
03-28-2011, 11:53 AM
That does not look like a MPX in the picture.

How can you tell? I would like to know so I can start eyeballing MPX's

My MPX looks just like a plain jane M90 when looking at it from the front.

CMac89
03-28-2011, 11:59 AM
He said he put an MP inlet on it, which means he had a stock inlet on it before. Having said that it seems to be a ported late model blower.

Anyways, looking good Kevin. I know you wanna dyno that thing!!:)

neverfastenough
03-28-2011, 12:13 PM
That does not look like a MPX in the picture.

Yup you're right, just a plain jain m90.

BLOWN38
03-28-2011, 12:32 PM
It could be a mp3, but then it wouldn't have the 94-95 inlet plenum with the big Magnum Powers writing. I do like the purple too! Engine bay looks sweet.

How them TIG welds turn out? Come on need an update.:)

Roadhawg
03-28-2011, 12:35 PM
How can you tell? I would like to know so I can start eyeballing MPX's

My MPX looks just like a plain jane M90 when looking at it from the front.

The easiest way to tell is looking at the rear bolt mounts. The bosses extend higher on a MPX.

btw Kevin great stuff ...............

90coug
03-28-2011, 12:41 PM
The easiest way to tell is looking at the rear bolt mounts. The bosses extend higher on a MPX.

btw Kevin great stuff ...............

Oh, well yea if I take a look at the back :p

SCrazy
03-28-2011, 01:05 PM
I'm really suprised those welds on the corners held out. Similar welds on my FMIC have blown out 4 times now.

Kevin Leitem
03-28-2011, 05:22 PM
i just dropped everything off tonight, i will post pics. then the fun starts...polishing:(

mmathews
03-28-2011, 08:26 PM
I am sure my " big ideas " dont add up to some of the pros here but bear with me on these. Is it most important to keep the intake manifold as pressurized as possible? My thinkin is that the sc "shoots" air in as each valve opens rather than the piston "drawing" air in as the valve opens. So, even though the intake manifold cant continue to flow as much as the sc and that enormous pipe can flow, the idea is to keep it pressurized. Like an air nailer. If i shoot 100 straight nails, i lose pressure. Even thought they are just short bursts but if i increase the tank and tank fill rate (cfm) my nailer will not get starved for pressure. Is that correct? And i have another question. In hvac class , yes its been a few years, we learned that a solid medium conducts heat better than any other kind. And air is actually used as an insulator. Sooo...would raising the sc up off the intake manifold allow it to run cooler? Maybe even trow in a heat shield or, for a lack of terminology, ram air the sc housing? I was thinking of doing this.

Mike8675309
03-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Raising the blower off the intake manifold and using temperature isolating gaskets would give you minimal benefit. Much of the heat added to the intake charge is a function of heat generated when compressing a gas. (it's physics)

Increasing the plenum volume after the blower goes directly to decreasing the amplitude of pressure waves that may or may not exist between the time pressure is added, and pressure is removed. For most of us, there is no need for additional plenum volume after the blower. Indications that you do need additional plenum volume manifests itself if you see manifold pressure rising and falling as rpm's are increasing.

Most of us need increased air flow at the inlet of the blower. Something that typically isn't easy to achieve without first moving the plenum after the blower out of the way, thus the modifications documented in this thread.

ScrapSC
03-29-2011, 09:13 PM
Why is that? Want me to build you one?

I would be in the garage with ya!!! Scratching my head and looking at my engine bay trying to figure on how to get it to fit on mine as well. LOL!! You know it would have been easy for you to just make two of what you had going on there as you built it...

ScrapSC
03-29-2011, 09:47 PM
Raising the blower off the intake manifold and using temperature isolating gaskets would give you minimal benefit. Much of the heat added to the intake charge is a function of heat generated when compressing a gas. (it's physics)

Increasing the plenum volume after the blower goes directly to decreasing the amplitude of pressure waves that may or may not exist between the time pressure is added, and pressure is removed. For most of us, there is no need for additional plenum volume after the blower. Indications that you do need additional plenum volume manifests itself if you see manifold pressure rising and falling as rpm's are increasing.

Most of us need increased air flow at the inlet of the blower. Something that typically isn't easy to achieve without first moving the plenum after the blower out of the way, thus the modifications documented in this thread.



Yeh, what he said!

Miller
03-29-2011, 10:01 PM
Scratching my head and looking at my engine bay trying to figure on how to get it to fit on mine as well.

no windshield wipers :eek:

Kevin Leitem
03-29-2011, 10:37 PM
picked up the pieces from the weld shop tonight

neverfastenough
03-29-2011, 10:44 PM
Welds look good, is that ebay tubing?

Kevin Leitem
03-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Welds look good, is that ebay tubing?

the plenum is ebay. the air intake is spectre from summit

CMac89
03-29-2011, 11:18 PM
Raising the blower off the intake manifold and using temperature isolating gaskets would give you minimal benefit. Much of the heat added to the intake charge is a function of heat generated when compressing a gas. (it's physics)

Increasing the plenum volume after the blower goes directly to decreasing the amplitude of pressure waves that may or may not exist between the time pressure is added, and pressure is removed. For most of us, there is no need for additional plenum volume after the blower. Indications that you do need additional plenum volume manifests itself if you see manifold pressure rising and falling as rpm's are increasing.

Most of us need increased air flow at the inlet of the blower. Something that typically isn't easy to achieve without first moving the plenum after the blower out of the way, thus the modifications documented in this thread.
Plenum volume increase is a proven benefit, specifically for higher RPMs. Besides the heads, the intake manifold is the most important air deliverance property of the whole equation. Air volume has be be maintained at X amount of pressure in order to avoid differential pressures on the back of intake valve.

What you mentioned would be sufficient for a motor at a constant RPM, but in the real world the motor goes through progressive stages of acceleration. The plenum volume requirements are somewhat similar to the minimum cross sectional area of an intake port. The cylinder takes air in pulses and regardless of what the port flows, there has to be a large enough window in order to maintain a constant or increased volumetric efficiency as the motor accelerates. Theoretically, a high performance motor would be built for first gear, where the motor's acceleration is highest.

neverfastenough
03-29-2011, 11:19 PM
the plenum is ebay. the air intake is spectre from summit

That guys a good welder, we had probs on my spectre 4in pipe.

Kevin Leitem
04-01-2011, 11:07 PM
started polishing tonight. far from finished but starting to look better

XxSlowpokexX
04-02-2011, 12:37 AM
nice I want to see the end result!

kpoindex08
04-10-2011, 03:31 PM
neat project! have you done any more with it?

Kevin Leitem
04-10-2011, 04:10 PM
neat project! have you done any more with it?

i pretty much got everything done. at the end of last year something made it into #1 cylinder and boogered the piston up a little. not too bad, if it was a NA engine i would of just filed down the high spots and ran it. so i decided to replace that piston. after 6 weeks of trying to find someone to make just one, i decided to get 6 new diamond customs made. so it will be a while yet

r1dd1ck913
09-30-2011, 10:56 PM
Any updates on this?

Kevin Leitem
10-01-2011, 12:09 PM
up and running. had it at the shoot out, but was running too lean and i could not richen it up enough. so i actually never made a run. but with my biggest blower pully it was making more boost than before with my smallest pully. so everything looks like it did what i was hoping for.

Jeff Bratton
10-01-2011, 09:30 PM
Great News!

r1dd1ck913
10-01-2011, 10:09 PM
I would love to see some pics of it done.

Kevin Leitem
10-01-2011, 11:35 PM
as requested

Mike8675309
10-02-2011, 11:20 AM
up and running. had it at the shoot out, but was running too lean and i could not richen it up enough. so i actually never made a run.

Not enough injector? Or perhaps another issue?

I can't remember asking so i thought I would. Looks like great work, and it made me wonder, how as welding on the intake manifold? Did you do the work, or did you contract it out? anything you would be willing to share on your experience on this project and welding to the stock parts would be great.

Kevin Leitem
10-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Not enough injector? Or perhaps another issue?

I can't remember asking so i thought I would. Looks like great work, and it made me wonder, how as welding on the intake manifold? Did you do the work, or did you contract it out? anything you would be willing to share on your experience on this project and welding to the stock parts would be great.

problems with the maf. switching to a slot style this week

i did all the welding except the but welds on the tubing, i just can't make them look good and with out burning holes! with a spool gun. welding on the intake was actually very easy.

r1dd1ck913
10-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Yea let us know when you get it running right. I would like to see some dyno numbers.

Kevin Leitem
11-05-2011, 09:30 PM
a little update... no dyno numbers. but some track results located here http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122767. i am seeing a 4.5-5 pound boost increase now.

seawalkersee
12-10-2011, 12:51 AM
What size is your smallest pully? Is that the smallest you can get? I know that at some point you have to get the snout turned down. I want to get a tiny one for the front of my bucket and have only seen about 2.7s. Any idea where to get one that is about 2"?

SWS