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Regul8r
02-27-2011, 01:31 PM
Looking for advise on a new torque converter.

Daily Driver with mods that will hit the track a couple times a year.
not looking for some hi rpm stall.

What is the stock stall?
would love to hear anyone's input and reasoning behind their opinion


Maybe links to threads that have discussed this in depth that I missed?

rzimmerl
02-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Stock stall is around 1600-1800 I believe. Need to know what your cam specs are, head info, blower info, rear gears, before you can get a idea on your stall.

fturner
02-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Your best bet is to get a hold of Allan (dirtydog) and discuss with him what you want. He's the goto guy in this club and his prices are very reasonable for good quality work.

An FYI, for a close to stock setup with a mild cam and ported heads, a rebuilt stock convertor setup for 2400 stall was terrific.

Fraser

Regul8r
02-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Stock stall is around 1600-1800 I believe. Need to know what your cam specs are, head info, blower info, rear gears, before you can get a idea on your stall.

1. CAM ----- I bought from JC91SC info posted on the thread,
Comp Cams Reground Cam (Have to get Specifics).
More info from another member...
RPM Cam 207/215 .505/.495" 110/2LCA-- budget cam swap with restrictive exhaust.
And here is what I got from him...
Cam IS suitable for stock application as well as mildly beefed up. It's a mild cam that benefits mostly on the intake side. It is bolt in, and from what I was told by the manufacturer, RPM (Redline Performance Mustangs), there isn't a tune needed. The cam goes well with either 1.73 OR 1.80 roller rockers, but performs best with the 1.80s. It was in Jim Demmit's SC for three 1/4 runs along with the blower I got from him (11 sec SC)...he beefed up everything to try to attack 10s.

2. HEADS ----- bought from Whiteybird, they are MannySC d-ported, stock valves, freshly rebuilt. Also a set of 1.73 roller rockers.

3. BLOWER ----- 94/95 ported M90 and intake plenum

4. 75mm MAF and TB
5. Bill Hull shorty headers
6. 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust from headers to tailpipe with an X-Resonator
7. 255 pump in a 94 tank
8. 94/95 36lb stock injectors (I KNOW I will need bigger)
9. 1990 AOD, Art Carr shift kit I bought from Conan
10. stock rear 3.27 gears stock 225/60/16 tires

Was looking at a B&M Holeshot 22-2500 stall
JC91SC still has a TCI Holeshot for sale too.

I just want a TC that does not hurt the Daily Driver too much but give me a little upgrade for hard driving, a few dragstrip track days throughout the year and probably a couple SCCA type events in the local area just to have some fun.

Forgot to add... Eagle I-Beam rods, Wiseco forged .030 over pistons, ARP head studs, 10%OD pulley

Regul8r
02-27-2011, 03:19 PM
Your best bet is to get a hold of Allan (dirtydog) and discuss with him what you want. He's the goto guy in this club and his prices are very reasonable for good quality work.

An FYI, for a close to stock setup with a mild cam and ported heads, a rebuilt stock convertor setup for 2400 stall was terrific.

Fraser

Thanks Fraser!
2400 is the ballpark I was thinking as well.
how much difference on the highway cruising will a 2400 be compared to a stock?

fturner
02-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Thanks Fraser!
2400 is the ballpark I was thinking as well.
how much difference on the highway cruising will a 2400 be compared to a stock?

It depends if you keep direct drive (some call it lockup) or not. I kept the direct drive so at highway it'll be the same as you have now. The only time the 2400 stall comes into play is in 1st and 2nd, which is where you want it for launching the car. I ran a 13.5 with a 2.0rt on street tires with that convertor and a setup similar to yours. Some practice with slicks could get you to low 13's easily enough.

I'm now running a 3000 stall 9.5" convertor with 3.73's in the rear with direct drive, and I'm still seeing about 28 or so mpg on the highway, even though it'll sit around 2400 rpm or so. The one thing is the way the car comes off the line now :D:D:D:D.... can you say "Buckle UP!!!!!"

Fraser

Regul8r
02-27-2011, 03:30 PM
It depends if you keep direct drive (some call it lockup) or not. I kept the direct drive so at highway it'll be the same as you have now. The only time the 2400 stall comes into play is in 1st and 2nd, which is where you want it for launching the car. I ran a 13.5 with a 2.0rt on street tires with that convertor and a setup similar to yours. Some practice with slicks could get you to low 13's easily enough.

I'm now running a 3000 stall 9.5" convertor with 3.73's in the rear with direct drive, and I'm still seeing about 28 or so mpg on the highway, even though it'll sit around 2400 rpm or so. The one thing is the way the car comes off the line now :D:D:D:D.... can you say "Buckle UP!!!!!"

Fraser

Great info.
NO I am NOT getting rid of the lock up.

fasterthanyou
02-27-2011, 06:23 PM
I'd have to recommend FTI competition converters. The prices are the best around. plus, you don't need to get a mark8 flexplate and have it neutral balanced like dirtydog says you need.

I got a racing billet 9.5" triple disk lockup 3400 stall for $300 less than dirtydog.

Stupid Canuck
02-27-2011, 07:02 PM
I'm going with a Marauder converter with a Mk8 flexplate for a 4r70w due to a Comp .500 lift cam. We'll see.

Melon
02-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Would a TC from a 4R70W car work on an AOD car? The OP has an AOD.

rzimmerl
02-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Would a TC from a 4R70W car work on an AOD car? The OP has an AOD.

No they will not for many reasons. Sounds like a 2400 stall with direct drive as suggested by Fraser from Dirty Dog would be perfect.

Dirtyd0g
02-27-2011, 10:56 PM
For the aod with stock shafts I suggest one of 2 options.
#1.My f52tt unit will stall about 2400, they are furnace brazed which makes them much more efficient and I put a bearing on the stator for durability. That setup omits the direct driveshaft which everyone thinks is a badidea but I promise once you try it you will never go back. If I didn't tell you it was eliminated you would never know you would just think your transmission magically got better. This unit is popular because of it's cost. The only down side is that there is nothing done to prevent ballooning. You have to go to a different unit to help that
#2 is my typical suggestion. A 9.5 inch billet front cover unit with the direct drive eliminated and stall very conservative, again once you try it you will never go back. I have some great combinations I use that have no down side, the mental thought to most peope of not having a true direct drive (incorrectly called lockup by most of the world).
The only reason to keep direct drive is if you want to o to a stall speed above 3500 for a hard launch.
The original post does to say which transmission it is so if it is a 4r70w a modified marauder converter and a markVIII converter are sure to please with no ill effects.
Alan

David Neibert
02-27-2011, 11:28 PM
3.73 gears would be a plus, especially if you decide to go with the non locking converter, which I would highly reccomend.

David

Regul8r
02-28-2011, 12:17 AM
It is a 1990 AOD.
Gears are not in my forseeable future.
Alan send me a PM with a quote for something I can stick in there.
I just want something with a little more but able to handle my hard driving.

Regul8r
02-28-2011, 07:43 AM
Alan, your PM box is full.

Dirtyd0g
02-28-2011, 10:49 AM
sorry,it is fixed.
Alan

slowpoke
02-28-2011, 06:19 PM
with a proper cooling system a big stall will do just fine for daily drivers. a big stall is also alot of fun compared to 2400 or less. i suggest while you have the tranny down get the bigger stall, rig up an efficient cooling system and enjoy. you know your going to want better as time goes on. might as well put the higher stall in know rather than coming back to do it all again later imo. i have known of plenty of people running 2800-3200 stall converters as daily drivers and never had a single problem. manual is still the way to go for me, but if i was to go auto i would require at the smallest a 3200 stall based off of my driving style and personal driving needs. i have an auto with a 2400 stall that i used for about 1.5 hours and i hated it off the start. mid to top end was great but low end was horrible from what im used to after using manuals.

fturner
02-28-2011, 10:48 PM
with a proper cooling system a big stall will do just fine for daily drivers. a big stall is also alot of fun compared to 2400 or less. i suggest while you have the tranny down get the bigger stall, rig up an efficient cooling system and enjoy. you know your going to want better as time goes on. might as well put the higher stall in know rather than coming back to do it all again later imo. i have known of plenty of people running 2800-3200 stall converters as daily drivers and never had a single problem. manual is still the way to go for me, but if i was to go auto i would require at the smallest a 3200 stall based off of my driving style and personal driving needs. i have an auto with a 2400 stall that i used for about 1.5 hours and i hated it off the start. mid to top end was great but low end was horrible from what im used to after using manuals.

If it were only that easy to spec out... the biggest thing that has to be looked at is the operating range of the motor which a lot of people forget about. There is no point in going that high with a basically stock motor because then you'll be actually flying right past your peak torque before the car is even really moving. A 2400 stall in a stock setup is bang on because once you've launched and the car starts to roll you land right at the sweet spot to haul out... and these luxury liners need all the help they can to get out of the hole.

Go to a bigger cam, push the rpm range up, then a higher stall is better to nail that sweet spot.

I kept the direct drive feature on mine because I'm not hesitant to shift manually to stop the car from lugging because my speed is low, and also I'm not making enough power to snap the hardened inner shaft yet, so it doesn't make sense to me to have a constantly slipping converter which burns more gas and generates a lot of heat which requires a lot of cooler which blocks air getting to our already pitiful rads... and besides..... the only time I'll have the benefit of a high stall converter is coming off the line..... after that my rpm's stay above the stall point so there is no torque multiplication going on anyway.

Its all in the package, not each individual component. Frankly, a 3000 stall converter on a stock SC is a waste of torque producing rpm.... heck with that stall that motor is already used up close to 50% of its available power curve since it dies at 4800 or so and you've barely got the car moving....

Do not compare what is done with mustangs etc that are N/A..... we have a roots blower sitting there that changes the whole dynamics of the power curve.

Fraser

stangerbanger
02-28-2011, 11:31 PM
What do yall think on a converter for a sc'ed mustang? built 4r70w, n20 and 15 pounds of boost? (218/224 114*lsa cam and good heads and injectors)

Crash00527
03-03-2011, 01:35 AM
go to Allen at http://dirtydogperformance.com/ in Ohio. He'll hook you up real nice.

Regul8r
03-03-2011, 10:30 AM
go to Allen at http://dirtydogperformance.com/ in Ohio. He'll hook you up real nice.

Working on it!