Changing front spindles from early to late model ?

David Neibert

SCCoA Admin
In order to upgrade to the Cobra 13" front brakes on my 91 SC I'll need to switch to late model spindles. I know about switching to late model sway bar end links, and I've got a set of the late model spindles with the hubs still attached, but need some advise on what needs to be done to install them. For example:

Do I need to get a spring compressor or do I just put a jack under the lower control arm ?

What connects the bottom of the spindle to the lower control arm, the ball joint ?

What special tools are required to make this swap ...pickle fork ?

Will I need to get an allignment after doing the swap ?

Anything else I need to know ?

David
 
In order to upgrade to the Cobra 13" front brakes on my 91 SC I'll need to switch to late model spindles. I know about switching to late model sway bar end links, and I've got a set of the late model spindles with the hubs still attached, but need some advise on what needs to be done to install them. For example:

Do I need to get a spring compressor or do I just put a jack under the lower control arm ?

What connects the bottom of the spindle to the lower control arm, the ball joint ?

What special tools are required to make this swap ...pickle fork ?

Will I need to get an allignment after doing the swap ?

Anything else I need to know ?

David

Nope...No spring compressor required. The spring is contained by the shock top hat so you don't need to worry about it at all unless you take the big nut on the top hat off.

You got it.

Pickle fork helps to remove the lower ball joint...BFH will also help with knocking the upper pinch bolt out. You might want to replace the upper ball joint pinch bolt as well as tey normally take a beating to get them out.

You should have your alignment checked afterwards but it won't likely change too much as there isn't any adjustment in the shock or balljoints to be disturbed.

Use an impact on the lower balljoint nut as it will be less likely to pop the tapered pin of the balljoint from the socket it gets pressed into. If that pops before you get the nut off it makes it a pain as the nut is a locking type with the plastic deal.
 
I thought the ABS sensors were different also. I'm pretty sure they are pressed in (and often hard to get out without damaging them).

I assume you are putting on new ball joints? Doesn't the fork usually fudge up the boot if you are trying to re-use them?
 
Doesn't the fork usually fudge up the boot if you are trying to re-use them?

Fast SC's all have snake bite holes in their ball joint boots. If you would rather not include your self in this category you might want to grab a couple of new boots :)
 
Okay...thanks for all the info. Now I'm even more intimidated about doing this job.

I've already replaced the upper control arms, steering rack and tie rod ends on this car. Wondering if it might be a good idea to go ahead and replace the lower control arms, assuming they include new ball joints and bushings ?

David
 
I just put new lowers on my car so Im going to try to do my spindle swap w/o killling them. Ryan R. Whats this talk about the late model abs sensors not working, is that true?
 
It's really not too bad. The pickle forks have always popped the ball joints out, just park your jack under the lower control arm to hold everything in position while you disassemble it. Stuff won't come flying apart under pressure. When your control arms are in full droop, most of the pressure is off of them.

If you are switching hubs, remember to break the hub nut loose while it's mounted on the car just to make it easier.

I've also never had to fight an upper control arm bolt, just loosen, give it some taps and maybe work the jack up and down a bit but they usually come out drama free.

I still haven't figure out how to avoid the "snake bites" in the ball joint boots, but like Tony said, I think most of the fast ones have that mod :) This is definitely NOT an intimidating job from the stuff you've done before. Just take your time and have a long breaker bar handy to make things easier.
 
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All you youngin's. :rolleyes: The way to remove any taper fit joint without damaging any parts is to use 2 big hammers. Preferably one should be 8lb or so and the other can be any weight equal to or less than 8lbs (something at least 1/2 the size of the bigger hammer works best). Just have someone hold the bigger hammer behind the part of the spindle that the joint passes through, and then smack the opposite side with the other hammer. Trust me, you won't hurt the spindle but if you get wild you can make a mess of the fender. :eek: Anyway, you don't usually have to smack very hard, maybe 1-3 hits and the joint will pop free. Everytime. 100% success rate with no damage to any relevant parts.

But then again my cars are slow so maybe I just need to create some snake bites to speed them up a little. :confused:

As for the sensors - the plugs are different so they don't work. You can cut and splice the connectors but the wires don't solder well so keep that in mind. If you can get your old sensors out without damage then just install them in the new spindles. I don't know why the sensors seem to be semi press fit in there so when I install them in new spindles I first lightly hone the hole so that they fit in easily and then also use anti-seize so they come out when and if you ever need to do this again.
 
It's really not too bad. The pickle forks have always popped the ball joints out, just park your jack under the lower control arm to hold everything in position while you disassemble it. Stuff won't come flying apart under pressure. When your control arms are in full droop, most of the pressure is off of them.

If you are switching hubs, remember to break the hub nut loose while it's mounted on the car just to make it easier.

I've also never had to fight an upper control arm bolt, just loosen, give it some taps and maybe work the jack up and down a bit but they usually come out drama free.

I still haven't figure out how to avoid the "snake bites" in the ball joint boots, but like Tony said, I think most of the fast ones have that mod :) This is definitely NOT an intimidating job from the stuff you've done before. Just take your time and have a long breaker bar handy to make things easier.

If I'm replacing the lower control arms, will I even need to mess with the pickle fork ?

The hubs on my 91 would work with the brake upgrade, but spindles I bought from someone on here a couple years ago already have hubs, so I wasn't planning to swap them.

What's the deal with the ABS sensor/ring ? Are the sensors from my 91 going to bolt up to the late model spindles/hubs and will the sensor rings on the late model hubs work ?

David

PS: I need to pull that box down off the shelf and see what all I got with the spindles.
 
Your sensors will work just fine. I have my 90 sensors, in the late model spindles with late model hubs.
 
Other than some clearance grinding like I did on my 93 SC and the use of a banjo bolt & washers...are the stock brake hoses on my 91 going to fit the Cobra/ PBR calipers ?

David
 
All you youngin's. :rolleyes: The way to remove any taper fit joint without damaging any parts is to use 2 big hammers. Preferably one should be 8lb or so and the other can be any weight equal to or less than 8lbs (something at least 1/2 the size of the bigger hammer works best). Just have someone hold the bigger hammer behind the part of the spindle that the joint passes through, and then smack the opposite side with the other hammer. Trust me, you won't hurt the spindle but if you get wild you can make a mess of the fender. :eek: Anyway, you don't usually have to smack very hard, maybe 1-3 hits and the joint will pop free. Everytime. 100% success rate with no damage to any relevant parts.

But then again my cars are slow so maybe I just need to create some snake bites to speed them up a little. :confused:

As for the sensors - the plugs are different so they don't work. You can cut and splice the connectors but the wires don't solder well so keep that in mind. If you can get your old sensors out without damage then just install them in the new spindles. I don't know why the sensors seem to be semi press fit in there so when I install them in new spindles I first lightly hone the hole so that they fit in easily and then also use anti-seize so they come out when and if you ever need to do this again.

I just woke up, bit groggy trying to picture this, we arnt hitting the big hammer with the little one correct? We're hitting the opposite side of the joint?
 
Noooo.. pickle fork

If you want to reuse the LCA + ball joint, use a pitman arm press/puller on the lower ball joint. The pickle fork will separate the parts, but trashes the rubber dust cover.
 
It's really not too bad. The pickle forks have always popped the ball joints out, just park your jack under the lower control arm to hold everything in position while you disassemble it. Stuff won't come flying apart under pressure. When your control arms are in full droop, most of the pressure is off of them.

If you are switching hubs, remember to break the hub nut loose while it's mounted on the car just to make it easier.

I've also never had to fight an upper control arm bolt, just loosen, give it some taps and maybe work the jack up and down a bit but they usually come out drama free.

I still haven't figure out how to avoid the "snake bites" in the ball joint boots, but like Tony said, I think most of the fast ones have that mod :) This is definitely NOT an intimidating job from the stuff you've done before. Just take your time and have a long breaker bar handy to make things easier.

A PICKLE FORK WILL ALWAYS DESTROY THE BOOT. What i find a better way is to whack the spindle next to the ball joint with a nice heavy hammer it usually pops them loose. be carefull not to hit anything other than the metal of the spindle.

if you do damage a boot, you can get boots from energy suspension, they work in a pinch but are not a 100 percent repair.
 
Wondering if it might be a good idea to go ahead and replace the lower control arms, assuming they include new ball joints and bushings
Hmmm.... I've had bad luck with the replacement arm assemblys including Moog AND Ford :eek: The ball joints don't hold up. I've refitted 2 of my flock with individual Moog ball joints pressed into old control arms... and new bushings. Why the LCA assemblies don't come with the beefier ball joint I don't know.

Also, you can, with patience, press the old/new ball joint out of the control arm yourself. The tool looks like a huge "C" clamp. A propane torch helps when installing the new balljoint into the arm.
 
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All you youngin's. :rolleyes: The way to remove any taper fit joint without damaging any parts is to use 2 big hammers. Preferably one should be 8lb or so and the other can be any weight equal to or less than 8lbs (something at least 1/2 the size of the bigger hammer works best). Just have someone hold the bigger hammer behind the part of the spindle that the joint passes through, and then smack the opposite side with the other hammer.

Youngin's, thats funny right there! :D Yeah that is how I do it without hurting any boots. Smack it hard enough it will pop right off.

One thing is to leave the bolt threaded on a few threads so when it pops off the Nut will catch it from falling completely off.

Very easy and as Dave D says watch the fenders especially if you have a small hammer and have to swing big!!

Smitty
 
One thing is to leave the bolt threaded on a few threads so when it pops off the Nut will catch it from falling completely off.

This is a good idea, but you MUST make sure the threads of nut and stud are clean and the nut is free to come off completely before you put the nut back on. Otherwise, the tapered stud will be free of the spindle, and the nut will be on the stud ... and you won't be able to hold the stud while you remove the nut!

(Bad memories.)
 
the bfh method works great, that is how i've done it for years. i learned the hard way to take the nut all the way off, clean the threads and make sure the nut turns real easy before threading it back on a bit and freeing the ball joint
 
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