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View Full Version : Some thoughts on a mild powered SC



ricardoa1
05-13-2011, 11:26 AM
Ok so Iíve been using the blue SC, and want to send out a message to all of the 300WHP or less guys that are out there. As some of you know my car is missing a key component, the main power adder that got my car over 400WHP. Now I did not have any complaints about the power, having the rush of a freight train pull is great, and beating almost anything worth mentioning is great also. And mounting slicks on the car and getting 12second slips is also great, and the dyno sheets ECT................All that is great but at a large cost $$.

For those that cannot do it, please take if from someone thatís been on the other side of the fence. The grass is always greener on the other side. These cars can still be fun with less power. There are benefits to it, let me explain. My car has a very tight handling suspension, probably one of tightest in this club. Comfort and ride is sacrificed, but you are rewarded with a car that can take corners very fast without a peep. Now here is where the less power come into play, the car is way faster around the corners with less power. I can be at WOT going around the bend and exit much faster, before I was afraid of spinning the car around, something that could be done with ease. Iíve just been revealed a new insight on my car.

Another bonus is that fuel economy has increased greatly the stock Eaton, it does not eat power like a twin-screw does at idle and cruising speeds.
You also donít have to worry about needing to fill up the alky bottle, in fear the car will explode.

The car was making a 12psi with the cold weather but now is down to 8-9 psi, still the car feels somewhat relatively powerful and strong. I wanted to just cruise with it since driving the car this season, but I the car does not ride smooth enough for you to enjoy cruising speeds, instead the jarring ride gets you mad and the car forces you to drive it hard and the engine and exhaust noises instantly overcome the cabin noises, after then the car then tells you ďthats right give me moreĒ, as you increase speeds the car becomes rewarding all of a sudden, at that point it brings you a sudden smile. The 265 front tires upfront are doing their job.

Call me crazy for witting this but it was just something I came up with after beating the car with a stick on my way to work.


PS. This is not an excuse for having a powerless car. Nor is it an excuse for some significant other person to remain nameless to postpone getting my power adder done. :) After all those dyno sheets are pretty rewarding also. :)

Plat0ribs
05-13-2011, 11:36 AM
Plat0ribs likes this^

Toms-SC
05-13-2011, 11:39 AM
It is not all about horse power.

XxSlowpokexX
05-13-2011, 12:10 PM
Rico likes extremes. A 300 rwhp or so SC with suspension upgrades tends to be a very well balanced vehicle. There comes a point (which I have yet to reach) where I would assume the car just cant handle the power. I recall when I first swapped my s port m90 for the AR I was not overly impressed. Yes my top end power was increased but it seemed my low end fun factor was taken away a bit. If I had spent 4,000 or so to do that id of been real angry.

Funny thing is I began to appreciate the loss of some low end torque the AR appeared to take from me as my car (when it was actually running) was more controllable at launch and lower RPM's yet pulls like a freight train up top. That I very much liked.

All to often it seems people dont have a realistic goal or expectations of thier car and get easily dissapointed. If I wanted to build a drag car it wouldnt be an SC. Not that you cant but you have to overcome a multitude of challenges that all = $$$$$ It has always been my goal to create a nice driver that satisfies my need for speed. And..Thats what I have..Not teh fastest..Not teh quickest. But something that looks good and handles amazingly well in comfort...AND can peg my 145 speedo with ease :O)

shoalcracker
05-13-2011, 12:41 PM
I agree with Rico's thoughts.

If built in balance the SC is a cameleon that can take on any skin you choose.

I crammed stock, late model and MPX in last summer just to get a feel.

Took some criticism for it but it was worth it.

Staying with Eaton for economy, building for balance and ease of maintenance and get it over 300 without it being high strung.

And I want all the creature comforts.

The car is showroom tight and thats the feel that sets the SC in a class by itself.

Paul

kenewagner
05-13-2011, 12:44 PM
It is not all about horse power.

I hear what you say but once you have crossed over to the dark side(400+ HP) anything less is not very satisfying. 300 horsepower is fun but 400 is funner:D Just think how much more fun 300 is over 200 HP;) and 200 over a KIA. I think a lot of it is about HP:D

Ken

David Neibert
05-13-2011, 12:58 PM
For the first 6 years of owning my 91 SC I thought it was just about the coolest, most fun car on the road...and it was bone stock.

David

ricardoa1
05-13-2011, 01:16 PM
I hear what you say but once you have crossed over to the dark side(400+ HP) anything less is not very satisfying. 300 horsepower is fun but 400 is funner:D Just think how much more fun 300 is over 200 HP;) and 200 over a KIA. I think a lot of it is about HP:D

Ken



Ken, Like I said I still plan on getting back up there, but all I was saying is that for the longest time I was a little guy looking up thinking what if I had more and more and more power. What did Neibert feel when his car was ripping it 5 years ago with MPIII making over 350HP ect? Like everything in life I took it for granted what I had at the time. What I am saying is that the car is not so bad with less then 300HP It has taken down charger R/Ts already, and a Mark VIII with rims and exhaust, other mods unknown.... But when taking turns the power the car has now is more usable and I def feel the car going faster around the bend, then it ever did. There is more confidence when pushings the pedal and makes me drive it faster.

Focus on the, suspension, brakes and tires first and you will feel more satisfied then a car that noodles around with unreal power.

Mike8675309
05-13-2011, 01:37 PM
Last year was the first nearly full summer I finally had my street strip machine close to the planned potential. After driving it and racing over a period of 3 months I found that my focusing on mechanicals was leading to creature comforts dropping and NVH increasing. When I looked at improving the spouse approval factor (would she take a trip in the passenger seat) I determined that I need to quit trying to pretend it is a street machine and just accept that I was building a race car. Thus no money will be spend on creature comforts on this one, and the fixing of the A/C last year was essentially money down the drain.

I have big plans for racing, and they are just diametrically apposed to being a comfortable street car.

Thus I will either fix up my 90 (redo the interior, mild rebuild on the motor) and use that for summer DD and long trip car, or I'll find myself a 94/95 SC next year for the same role. I well selected CAM, with a mild head package and a few bolt ons, maybe a gear swap, and these cars can have all the power you really need plus really go do down the road slick!

Ira R.
05-13-2011, 02:03 PM
For the first 6 years of owning my 91 SC I thought it was just about the coolest, most fun car on the road...and it was bone stock.

David

What he said. My 90 & 92, both new at the time were the most fun I was having in a car in 20 years. Stone stock each of them. Now I have a 94 with a little power in it and a 95 with a little more. Each has it's own reason for being.

And as long as we're telling our true life's story here's mine:
The 94 has an S-Port, 3.31 gears, 18" tires and is the most fun tooling around town a person can have. At about 300 rwhp, maybe 12lbs of boost and very tight handling capabilities Ricardo's description of his car fits this one to a Tee. This is the car we've customized the interior on and use most often because it's comfortable and really fun to drive.

The 95 has a little more power, 3.08 rear and everything else on the car is stock. But it pulls forever and the rush is something else. This is the car you want to drive when you just want to go fast. At some point over the last couple of years you may have heard something about this car and we've been pretty lucky to have it.

I realize I am fortunate to be able to build two of these things and most people can't. But you can have both in one car if that's what you so desire so long as you plan it out first and not just toss money at it. You'll end up doing that soon enough anyway ;)

--
And yes, I am a member of the don't change the oil change the engine club.
--
Ira R..

TSC89
05-13-2011, 02:13 PM
I guess I consider myself lucky. I have 2 SC's that are on both sides on the coin. The 89 is a bone stock automatic and the 90 is a slightly built 5-speed that I can't leave alone long enough to get it to the track or the Shootout. I enjoy driving both of them. The 89 still gets a lot of looks and compliments when I take it out locally. The 90 is a clear coat peeling, sun faded, primered body parts, lowered an 1" with painted Cobra R's and BFG 255/55/R17's all the way around ugly SC. It is so much fun to kick it the butt going down the highway or throwing it into a curve with the MP1 whine. That is just another reason I really like the SC.

David Neibert
05-13-2011, 02:54 PM
I thought my lightly modded SC was pretty darn quick, and back in 2000 I met up with Kurt K at the local track to see what it would do. This was my first time drag racing and Kurt was nice enough to show me the ropes.

Anyhow, I was certian my car was running somewhere in the 13s and I couldn't wait to see the timeslip. My best pass of the night ended up being a very dissapointing 15.0 @ 89 mph. :mad:

Kurt ran a new best of 14.0 that night, and from that point on I haven't stopped modding the car to go faster and faster. I've currently got a little bit of a lead on him, but that easily could evaporate overnight. So while Kurt is helping mommy with the new baby...I'll be adding more power.

If it wasn't for SCCoA, guys like Kurt and my wife's GTP showing me how slow my car really was, I would have been content and probably still driving around in my 15 second car thinking it was really quick.

David

ricardoa1
05-13-2011, 03:22 PM
I thought my lightly modded SC was pretty darn quick, and back in 2000 I met up with Kurt K at the local track to see what it would do. This was my first time drag racing and Kurt was nice enough to show me the ropes.

Anyhow, I was certian my car was running somewhere in the 13s and I couldn't wait to see the timeslip. My best pass of the night ended up being a very dissapointing 15.0 @ 89 mph. :mad:

Kurt ran a new best of 14.0 that night, and from that point on I haven't stopped modding the car to go faster and faster. I've currently got a little bit of a lead on him, but that easily could evaporate overnight. So while Kurt is helping mommy with the new baby...I'll be adding more power.

If it wasn't for SCCoA, guys like Kurt and my wife's GTP showing me how slow my car really was, I would have been content and probably still driving around in my 15 second car thinking it was really quick.

David

Are you saying that I am imagining that my car is quick? Or are you just telling your story....
If it wasnt for SCCOA, my car would have already done its job as a car and depreciated to the point of trade in on something else. But thanks to the pioneers of the go fast I stuck around and learned how to make money dissapear. :rolleyes:

David Neibert
05-13-2011, 04:20 PM
If you still have heads and cam and upgraded exhaust, your car probably is pretty quick, maybe just not as quick as you think.

David

Toms-SC
05-13-2011, 04:39 PM
I hear what you say but once you have crossed over to the dark side(400+ HP) anything less is not very satisfying. 300 horsepower is fun but 400 is funner:D Just think how much more fun 300 is over 200 HP;) and 200 over a KIA. I think a lot of it is about HP:D

Ken

We'll see what my latest project produces.

ricardoa1
05-13-2011, 04:43 PM
If you still have heads and cam and upgraded exhaust, your car probably is pretty quick, maybe just not as quick as you think.

David

I dont know how quick it is on a straight line, the only references are a charger R/T and a Mark VIII like I said, no trying to hide or pretend that the car is fast. But I sure can drive it faster now with less power around the bends. You should get in my car sometime in the future, make sure you take your blood pressure pills though.. I dont claim to be the best driver out there, but do take some risks that some more conservative folks might find it too scarry to do in their own cars. I got a few witnesses in the club ;)


My point was from all this is that you dont need to have tons of power to have fun some fun.

Mike8675309
05-13-2011, 04:55 PM
These cars are quick on the street, stop light to stop light. I took my near stock 90 to an 1/8mile track and was eating much more powerful cars for lunch. Most because they couldn't hook, or I got such a lead on them on the launch that by the time their power was coming in I still managed to keep a head by the 1/8th.

A stock SC is very fun at an 1/8th mile track doing grudge racing.

Micahdogg
05-13-2011, 05:05 PM
At a World Ford Challenge circa 2002, we were hanging out with Ted Lyons all weekend. For those who don't know, he had a centrifugal blown 347 with a M5R2 that gained a little notoriety from the One Lap of America race. He was making in excess of 600RWHP and so most people thought his car was "uber-awesome."

But at one point he was riding with me in my 89 SC, which was making like 270RWHP and he was talking along the lines of Rico. He kept saying how nice it is to have usable power, mild manners, reliability, etc... I said, "Yeah, but dude, your car is 600HP and that has to be sick!" He shrugged his shoulders and said, "Well, yeah, it is cool, but you don't get much power in the normal range, then it just goes nuts. I can really appreciate the way your car makes power."

Obviously I didn't take it to heart too well, but I think it's just something everyone has to learn. I think my car was in a better state with it's last rendition (383 RWHP). It was still pretty reliable and made power the way I wanted it to. Now, my car has 50 more HP, which is nice, but I don't think it's much more fun. Then again, I haven't driven it a whole lot with this new combo.

But I'm at the point in my life where the car has pretty much become a complete novelty. I don't need it, I may not even use it for a while, but I'm not selling it, and I kind of enjoy the adventure of where it's going. It's expensive and you take wrong turns sometimes (I think a well known SC'er called it the "SC Shuffle."), but I don't have any regrets. And to me that is worth whatever the car ends up being....just to not look back at opportunities and wonder what would have happened if I went X route or Y route.

I'm also looking forward to not trying to break the car this year, but hopefully chillin at a car show somewhere and just appreciating it along with the other SC dudes.

BLOWN38
05-13-2011, 05:55 PM
Now you all are starting to talk like a bunch of girls!:p

351cat
05-13-2011, 08:29 PM
Mine's bone stock with loose suspension, mismatched wheels, dented up body, crappy tires, and a coolant leak. But i still consider it a fun car to drive. :)


Note: all above items are being fixed... slowly, lol...

I got started in this arena getting a random 91 cougar from a friend who also gave me a 351W. I found this site (and tccoa) searching for how to cram that motor in that car. Got it running and loved it, then went to a KC meet soon after that and rode in an SC and decided i had to have one. :) Always been a Ford guy, but the MN12 (all varieties, and the FN10) just blow me away on so many levels, i think i'll always have at least one around. :D

And yeah, we're talking like a bunch of girls, but this thread is win imo.

XR7 Dave
05-13-2011, 10:03 PM
About 1-2 years ago I made a similar post and pretty much got pooped on for being a pussy. :rolleyes::p

BLOWN38
05-13-2011, 10:30 PM
About 1-2 years ago I made a similar post and pretty much got pooped on for being a pussy. :rolleyes::p

Think we should rename the club Ladies SCCOA.:D

mmathews
05-13-2011, 11:06 PM
It's all relative. Just so you build your sc to entertain you. When my car was stock, i could have fun gettin to the speed limit. I liked that. I could play around and get decent gas mileage. Now that i have done some mods, if i get caught playin on the street i am gettin a ticket. My car used to pull strong and plateau. Now it takes a little more to pull strong but lasts much longer. So when i was done before i was at 60. Now its 90. I think the point is that you dont always need more car. But you'll always want more. My car isn't fast. Lol. I'll just put that out there. But i like when you see a showboat take off and you punch it and he doesn't get any farther away from you.

lube70
05-14-2011, 12:12 AM
I always say have fun driving the car....I haver owned quite a few SC's and still own my 95 SC which is very fun to drive. I did the mods that got me to 300 rwhp and am very content on the performance of the car.

Runs like a champ, not breaking parts every turn, still fun to drive, etc.

I advise anyone that has an SC and wants to run with the big boys, that it costs A LOT of money and time. Mostly time to get it right.

I would also say to get the car to handle back to stock and enjoy the car. Do exhaust, 5% pulley, intercooler fan, etc and have fun.

I still miss very much my 91 SC that just had 200 rwhp (with only exhaust, and intercooler fan) and it was SO FUN TO DRIVE!!!!

Enjoy the car@@@


Don

Hock
05-14-2011, 01:50 AM
Sometimes when I'm not driving my SC, instead driving my wifes 99 SHO, I wish that my SC was still mostly stock and simple to drive. But when I get in my SC and glue that loud pedal to the floor I get a big smile on my face, laugh like a villain, and know that I wouldn't have it any other way. :D

David Neibert
05-15-2011, 10:41 AM
I dont know how quick it is on a straight line, the only references are a charger R/T and a Mark VIII like I said, no trying to hide or pretend that the car is fast. But I sure can drive it faster now with less power around the bends. You should get in my car sometime in the future, make sure you take your blood pressure pills though.. I dont claim to be the best driver out there, but do take some risks that some more conservative folks might find it too scarry to do in their own cars. I got a few witnesses in the club ;)


My point was from all this is that you dont need to have tons of power to have fun some fun.

I understand what you are saying, but since I've never driven my SC fast in anything other than a straight line for the past 5 years, the reduced power wouldn't be of much help for how I drive. The quicker the car gets, the slower I tend to drive it. Back when it was making under 300 at the wheels, I was ripping around all the time squealing the tires and trying to show other cars how fast an SC really was.

Now I'm more concerned about keeping it out of a ditch and not getting into trouble with the law. Mine used to be great stoplight to stoplight, and now it spins the tires so easily a stock Honda Accord will eat my lunch. I can't give it full throttle below 45 or 50 mph or the tires spin and the rear end kicks sideways. As you know, it's very hard to stay off the go pedal when a much weaker car is pulling away fast.

These days I'm content to cruise around and chirp the tires on shifts with an ocassional stab of the throttle where prudent to make sure it's still running strong. So I mainly just putt around secure in the knowledge that I can beat nearly any other car I pull along side of, even if I can't. Very seldom does anyone want to race an old guy like me, and if they do I usually just ignore them until I get on a straight stretch of road where I can do a quick rolling burnout along side them. That usually results in a thumbs up or a quick turnoff from the other driver.

That said, I can't imagine ever being content with less power. Just knowing I didn't have as much as I used to, would drive me nutts. Maybe it's just my way of coping with the thought of growing old. The fact that my body isn't as fit or strong as it was when I was a younger man, doesn't mean my car has to suffer the same fate.

David

nickleman60
05-15-2011, 11:07 AM
The quicker the car gets, the slower I tend to drive it.

Now I'm more concerned about keeping it out of a ditch ond not getting into trouble with the law.

These days I'm content to cruise around and chirp the tires on shifts with an ocassional stab of the throttle where prudent to make sure it's still running strong. So I mainly just putt around secure in the knowledge that I can beat nearly any other car I pull along side of, even if I can't. David

These 3 statements are my sentiment exactly. Unless I'm at the dragstrip, my SC spends the majority of it's time sitting in my garage/driveway with an occasional cruise/putt around town. I do miss the days that I did drive it everyday but those days are long gone. I will admit that I would like to have a SC set up for the road course as I think it would be a head rush to stay at speed for a prolonged time frame.

XR7 Dave
05-15-2011, 11:09 AM
Sometimes when driving my 98% stock SC I think "Wow, it pulls pretty good."

Then I am ashamed of myself. :o

BLOWN38
05-15-2011, 12:37 PM
I understand what you are saying, but since I've never driven my SC fast in anything other than a straight line for the past 5 years, the reduced power wouldn't be of much help for how I drive. The quicker the car gets, the slower I tend to drive it. Back when it was making under 300 at the wheels, I was ripping around all the time squealing the tires and trying to show other cars how fast an SC really was.

Now I'm more concerned about keeping it out of a ditch and not getting into trouble with the law. Mine used to be great stoplight to stoplight, and now it spins the tires so easily a stock Honda Accord will eat my lunch. I can't give it full throttle below 45 or 50 mph or the tires spin and the rear end kicks sideways. As you know, it's very hard to stay off the go pedal when a much weaker car is pulling away fast.

These days I'm content to cruise around and chirp the tires on shifts with an ocassional stab of the throttle where prudent to make sure it's still running strong. So I mainly just putt around secure in the knowledge that I can beat nearly any other car I pull along side of, even if I can't. Very seldom does anyone want to race an old guy like me, and if they do I usually just ignore them until I get on a straight stretch of road where I can do a quick rolling burnout along side them. That usually results in a thumbs up or a quick turnoff from the other driver.

That said, I can't imagine ever being content with less power. Just knowing I didn't have as much as I used to, would drive me nutts. Maybe it's just my way of coping with the thought of growing old. The fact that my body isn't as fit or strong as it was when I was a younger man, doesn't mean my car has to suffer the same fate.

David

Now we're talkin!:cool:

I would like to get my 5 speed car to 300rwhp someday. Would be perfect for the street. And all look stock.

CMac89
05-15-2011, 01:25 PM
David pretty much summed it up. Seems like this is mostly opinion whether one likes handling or straight line performance better. I think road racing is plenty fun, but it really isn't something that I feign for once I'm finished doing it. Acceleration has always been my cocaine, regardless of where I do it. Drag racing is in my blood and I can never wait until the next time I get another pass.

I bought my car whenever it was stock and didn't have much fun with it until it was in 13 second territory, then I could hang with many cars. Once I got to 330rwhp and low 12s, I started to have a lot of fun and could hang with the bad boy GN, LS1 cars, and Mustangs. Whenever I had the Whipple on the car, it wasn't nearly unstreetable with its power. Low 4XX rwhp doesn't make the car uncontrollable to where it wouldn't be fun on the street. It's still in the territory of traction.

People always look at SCs and are impressed if it runs 13s. Once it runs 12s they're even more impressed and want to know more about it. You get to the 11s they're just confused. Once it hits 10s they start to assume that it's a V8 car with nitrous and/or turbo/blown. The stupefaction is always there, which I think is awesome. When I had my car at the track, a couple weeks ago, it was hurt and running like poo. People were still crowding it and saying it's impressive.

I went from not being able to spin in a second gear roll from going sideways, in third gear. It really does have a humbling affect to have a good amount of power. When I was around 300rwhp, I acted a fool because I didn't have traction problems. I always got in trouble with the Po-Po. Now, the car is too dangerous to do things like that, so I respect its abilities and reduce the chances of hurting myself in it or getting into legal troubles.

1bad67cat
05-15-2011, 02:17 PM
I honestly don't know what kind of hp I'm making, I just know it's fun to drive. I'm pretty sure a previous owner did work, just not sure of everything. It has a 5% od on the m90, magnaflow high flow cats and resonator, and borla pro xs mufflers out back, and a b&m shifter. At idle (around 800 rpm) it sounds like a v8 with a cam. At a car cruise last year, alot of peeps doin' burnouts at intersections, so I was dumpin' the clutch also. After we got to the end of the cruise, guys looked under my hood, and couldn't believe it was a 6. They were swearin' it was a v8. It's not a 400hp monster (that's my 67 Merc, ;)) but it is still a helluva lot of fun. :D