Head Gaskets Done... Bad News!

The following is rather long winded, sorry its my nature... lol

Recap: wispy sweet vapor at the tailpipe, upon disassembly we discover what appears to be an intake gasket leak on the water jackets. Since we were in that far and had already purchased all the parts to do the head gaskets we proceeded to tear down to the block. HG’s checked out OK.
I did the prep for reassembly and may have gotten some stuff (HG scrapings, steel wool, etc…) into the cylinders. Fearing contamination, I blew out the cylinders with compressed air, wiped the surfaces with clean towels, and covered the holes as best I could with clean towels until re-assembly.
Reassembly went like clockwork, we primed the oil, and then lite it up (w/o exhaust and low on coolant) just to check the build, idle, etc… everything seemed OK.
I finished bolting up the exhaust to the manifolds, filled the radiator, topped off the oil (spilling a little onto the manifold, D’oh!), and started it up. It started fine, seemed to idle OK but the engine seemed to be moving/shaking somewhat more than I thought it should. There was a little smoke coming from where the oil was on the manifold. I shut it off and looked around for anything out of place. Re-started it again, and revved it a few times. Checking the tail pipes I noticed some black carbon and water on the floor, I assumed this was just normal crap getting pushed out of the engine, but it didn’t seem to be revving like it had just seconds ago. I then I took it around the block thinking to put a little load on it and see if things straightened themselves out. By the time I got around the block it was running very rough and barely had the power to back it up the drive way and back into the garage. I shut it down and with a terrible sinking feeling in my stomach I opened the hood and smelled hot, burning, unhappy engine.
I’m dejected and upset it didn’t come to life and run perfectly, and now I don’t know where to start to look for the problem except all the way back down in the block. I guess if there is a question in here anyplace it’s “would an engine spit out any contaminants in the combustion cylinders, or would those contaminated gum up the rings and eat the cylinder walls and cause the engine to seize up?”
Any opinions, diagnostic suggestions, or sympathy will be much appreciated.

Did you happen to install headgaskets correctly? Otherwise recheck everything else you did...Something wasnt put together just right so it seems

Those contaminants will most likely get caught in your valve seats and not allow a complete seal. IT will cause the vehicle to shake badly like it's on 5 (or less) cylinders. You need to perform a mexican tune-up.

It has been suggested that the oil pan may have gotten suffecient coolant in it to burn up the bearings. Going to drop the oil and chop the filter in half see what I find.

I'm so pissed, if I did this because I didn't change the oil, I may have to take myself out

Oil must always be changed when doing headgaskets or intake manifold prior to starting the motor. When intake manifold and heads are pulled some coolant will usually spill into the lifter valley and end up in the oil pan. Since coolant is heavier than oil and sits on the bottom of the pan, it will get sucked into the oil pump at initial start up and quickly damage the bearings.

From what you described, I don't think contamination in the cylinders is the issue, but if you didn't resurface the heads before reinstalling, they may not be sealing properly.

David

I wouldn't worry too much about the stuff that fell into the cylinders. As long as you got it out and wiped them down, no problem.

I wouldn't worry too much about water and carbon coming out of the tailpipe. It was probably sitting in there from when the HGs first blew. Now, if it continues and continues, then I would get worried. But you would have steam before liquid water if the HGs were still leaking.

Now, changing the oil would definitely have been the right thing to do. But don't panic yet...

I suspect that you either have your spark plug wires mixed up (banks reversed or wires 5 and 6 mixed up), or you have vacuum leaks.

What does the vacuum gauge read at idle?

Did you check your temp gauge....

Maybe the t-stat got stuck and caused the engine to overheat....

One other thing, too. If coolant was burned before the HG replacement you may have contaminated the O2 sensors and need to replace them. That happened to me and was how I knew I had an internal coolant leak thru my intake gaskets. Mine would hardly run due to the fouled O2's.

It is hard to tell from your description exactly how it is running. It sounds like your engine was running a total of like 3 or 4 minutes? Is that right? IF the car started fine, seemed to idle OK, but the engine seemed to be moving/shaking somewhat more than you thought it should, then that is more than likely:

- Something not tightened down fully. Double check your work, your supercharger plumbing, your harness connections, make sure plugs are fully seated, vacuum lines hooked up properly. Check all of this first. ALso take a peek at your coolant to make sure it's not all gone. Same with the oil (make sure it isn't grey now).

- Plug wires. I would next make sure a plug wire didn't get cooked because you left it hanging against the manifold.

- Debris left in the cylinder or old gasket material from your lower intake dropping into the head ports. It will get burnt/caught in the valve seat and needing to be burnt out. You do this by driving the car WOT up and down the street.

The fact that it was smoking is no big deal. You just spilt coolant/oil everywhere. The fact that your tail pipes left black carbon and water on the floor is no big deal.

Upon the second drive, you said things were getting worse and it barely had the power to get up the driveway. This isn't a head gasket or plug wires crossed. This very well could be more plug wires getting cooked to death, or more debris getting burnt/caught in your valve seats. It could also be your previously totalled 02 sensors going into open loop and not liking what they are seeing (which I think causes pig rich condition). It could also be a MAF connection that came off, or any number of loose connections.

But smelling a hot, burning, unhappy engine is no big deal, unless you actually have a hot, burning engine. Your temp gauge will tell you that.

we checked the oil out at lunch time
bad news for his bearings.

Oh not changing oil is bad. A load of antifreeze gets in there just from pulling the lower intake. Sorry for the news dude

David and Slowpoke, I think this ^ is exactlly what happened. I built it with new O2 sensors, new plugs and wires, MLS HG's, ARP studs. I'm pretty sure everything went together tight and leak free. the H2O coming out the tail pipes was just compression water, not sweet or slippery to the feel at all.

Big-E, new stat.

Micah, Initially, b/4 exhaust was hooked up and radiator was refilled, we started it, it went through a little gyration, but soon it settled down and idled well. I think we ran it maybe a minute or less turned it off and restarted it again for maybe another 30 sec to a minute, I think he revved once on the second start and it revved fine and dropped back to idle fine. Then a day later I hooked up the exhaust filled up the radiator, topped off the oil and lit it up again. At first it seemed to run fine so I got out and looked in the engine bay, noticed the tablespoon of oil burning off the passenger side manifold and noticed what appered to be a little shake in the engine. Went back behind the wheel, vacuum was @ -19 to -20"Hg. and it began running a little rough. I throttled it a few times and the boost was there but it seemed just a little sluggish in RPM response. When I took it around the block it was not running right, and got worse, by the time I had got around the block it was running like crap and died in front of the house. I restarted it and backed it up the driveway into the garage and shut it down. When I opened the hood it seemed hot and I noticed what appeared to be a grayish smoke eminating from the whole engine. I drained the oil today at lunch and my service man (Hasher) said he sees gold!

Just another of those re, he, he, he, heally important lessions one will never ever forget!

What's the general consensus about putting a new load of oil into it and see what happens...?!?!

Plat0ribs said:

What's the general consensus about putting a new load of oil into it and see what happens...?!?!

Click to expand...

you know mine

Micahdogg said:

Those contaminants will most likely get caught in your valve seats and not allow a complete seal. IT will cause the vehicle to shake badly like it's on 5 (or less) cylinders. You need to perform a mexican tune-up.

Click to expand...

Oil change, run the piss out of it and pray to Mary Magdelena, yes?

And Thanks you guys for the ideas.

Gold in the oil is not good.

It is possible to get at the main and rod bearings from underneath if you get an engine brace. If that eases your pain at all.

Sorry to hear about your problems.

If it went to the point of not running well then the game is over. If the bearings are that bad and you run it any more the crank will be garbage. It may well be garbage already as well as piston pins, etc. Surprised you didn't mention any knocking/squealing sounds though.

I guess it's still possible that it's not bearings at all since you don't mention any bad noises. Could be something else but by all means don't drive it anywhere (or rev the engine) until you figure it out.

so the car ran fine, for 3-4 min then you let it sit and then hooked up exhaust and it doesnt run good anymore.

coolant in exhaust will also damage cats, as well as bad tune and other things, i bet you have plugged cats as well (you didnt mention if they were still on car or not)

my bird after rebuild would run fine till car tried to go into closed loop, (my o2 sensors were bad) but when I changed them the car ran better but still ran like crap when warmed up, I discovered plugged cats.

how much "gold" is in oil? a little? tons, just barely see it?

i dont doubt that you may have damaged the bearings when coolant ran through them. but you would have to have damage them pretty badly to make the motor run bad due to bearings. you would also have some sort of noise accompanying it.

drop exhaust again, then change oil and filter, run it and see if it gets better, heck thats a hole lot cheaper than tearing into motor again. rule out the easy cheap things first.

also have a friend check your work over, you will be suprised what another eye can chatch..

the oil looks like a nice black metallic paint. Theres a LOT of material in the oil, all very fine pieces that I got from the filter. I didn't see any coolant mixed color, smell or other signs of coolant mixed in the oil.
Felt like the number 6 plug wire wasn't connected right so we got that back on. He will fill it up tomorrow and give it a test to see if that does the trick and listen for knocking or other noises.
The engine did have a vibration to it that seemed a bit excessive since the first time I saw it. It has a BHJ balancer with a wobbly crank pulley.

I would make sure its not a plug issue. Also check to make sure the ic tubes are sealed. I had a leak in mine after some tinkering and it idled a little funny but ran like crap. I couldn't hear the leak til i put a tube to my ear. As fas as over heating, you should burp the system. The block may have been low on coolant. And the hg's only have open coolant passages on 1 side.

I'm still not convinced that you just smoked all your main/rod bearings and that is why it started running poorly. Nearly every time I changed my oil I could see some glitter in it.

I would consider installing a new oil filter, then going with at least a 40W oil and trying it again (but like Dave said, don't rev the snot out of it).

BTW, I've also seen SC's run with a normal dose of coolant in the oil (after HG swap) for a few minutes and it didn't just total out the bearings and make it run all stumbly. Once we remembered, we shut the car off and changed the oil.