Whats on the way.......

neverfastenough

Registered User
I know we have a 2012 goals thread, and thats not what I want this to be. Hasn't been much tech talk about where we're at at the moment. And I guess this will actually be a more blower based topic:eek:. Looking for replys from some of the big dawgs, even though that title keeps changing.

Do you think you have room to improve on your engines? Not so much the car, just talking engines here. Is the 3.8 based sc motor out of umph. 2 years ago it seemed like we kind of thought we were, lots of talk of cylinder heads being made, or that we had to have an intake manifold made. Im guessing around that time 450rwhp was the basic number that was trying to be topped. Few of you blower guys have now, and even a m90 on the juice. Was all the talk of intakes and heads replaced by a bit more rpm, better inlet plenums, some trans tweaking, etc?

I guess Im kind of waiting for this kind of talk to come back up. Or are you guys quitting? I dont mean that in a giving up way, but we've seen 10's at under 500rwhp, or near enough that it makes no difference. Not makeing a blower/turbo knock here, but for lack of better words, "you guys" are pretty e.t based anymore, and theres nothing wrong with that, I continue to work on that constantly. If it turns out Ken tweaks his way to high 400's and 10's, or Zimmerly, Keith,Tuck, and Oatway. Are you throwing in the towel then?

I quote David off the top of my head "you wouldnt be happy with 600rwhp?". And Hell no, I know theres more to be had. Do you guys think theres more to be had than the 500rwhp number on your stuff? I think there is, but what are your plans, if heads never come for example. Someone willing to go outside the box with all billet rotating assembly and more CI? 8500rpm? Blue Bottles for everyone? Whats the plans?

I looked in the goals thread and not much engine talk there, its roll bars, suspension, weight reduction, etc. All that is very important, but are we subconsciously doing that stuff because its now "easy" when compared to pushing a sc engine past 500rwhp? Two years ago we just kept working on power and power and power, now I see were all working on .02 sec on 60fts. Makes me wonder if the end is near for the power plant. Maybe the end isnt near and high 400rwhp is just a content number for most.

We ever going to see this?
On my 91 SC: Break the 600 rwhp barrier on a dynojet and chrome plate the 4" intake pipe.

On my 93 SC: Figure out a way to get a bigger air filter to fit the much bigger turbo and fabricate some type of chin spoiler/air dam for improved engine cooling. Pull 900rwhp

David

My goals are:

600 rwhp
10.0 sec 1/4 time
Paint the new nose and add white ghost flames to the front of the car
And of course not blow it up.

Mike

I started this weekend by gutting the interior of the car
Car is going on a diet
Rebush the rear suspension
Mount the IRS solid to the car body
New shifter
Rebuild the tq converter
And a engine project if the funds are there,to go for 600rwhp and low 10's

Ken

Thats a decent start

Not a knock thread here at all, Im sure everyone here has priorities way higher than a sc. Low funds, lack of time, all of the above. So "eventaully" whats the plan for SC engines, have they peaked?

Corey

Edit, Id like responses from everyone really. Anyone building an engine/ blower setup currently, How bout the big guy AA. Shooting to 500?, because thats max potential for a sc engine? Kurt, you in a planning stage, content, bored with the sc, or maybe just no time at the moment? If you did want to redo the setup would you shoot for a north of 500 number?
 
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I know we have a 2012 goals thread, and thats not what I want this to be. Hasn't been much tech talk about where we're at at the moment. And I guess this will actually be a more blower based topic:eek:. Looking for replys from some of the big dawgs, even though that title keeps changing.

Do you think you have room to improve on your engines? Not so much the car, just talking engines here. Is the 3.8 based sc motor out of umph. 2 years ago it seemed like we kind of thought we were, lots of talk of cylinder heads being made, or that we had to have an intake manifold made. Im guessing around that time 450rwhp was the basic number that was trying to be topped. Few of you blower guys have now, and even a m90 on the juice. Was all the talk of intakes and heads replaced by a bit more rpm, better inlet plenums, some trans tweaking, etc?

I guess Im kind of waiting for this kind of talk to come back up. Or are you guys quitting? I dont mean that in a giving up way, but we've seen 10's at under 500rwhp, or near enough that it makes no difference. Not makeing a blower/turbo knock here, but for lack of better words, "you guys" are pretty e.t based anymore, and theres nothing wrong with that, I continue to work on that constantly. If it turns out Ken tweaks his way to high 400's and 10's, or Zimmerly, Keith,Tuck, and Oatway. Are you throwing in the towel then?

I quote David off the top of my head "you wouldnt be happy with 600rwhp?". And Hell no, I know theres more to be had. Do you guys think theres more to be had than the 500rwhp number on your stuff? I think there is, but what are your plans, if heads never come for example. Someone willing to go outside the box with all billet rotating assembly and more CI? 8500rpm? Blue Bottles for everyone? Whats the plans?

I looked in the goals thread and not much engine talk there, its roll bars, suspension, weight reduction, etc. All that is very important, but are we subconsciously doing that stuff because its now "easy" when compared to pushing a sc engine past 500rwhp? Two years ago we just kept working on power and power and power, now I see were all working on .02 sec on 60fts. Makes me wonder if the end is near for the power plant. Maybe the end isnt near and high 400rwhp is just a content number for most.

We ever going to see this?






Not a knock thread here at all, Im sure everyone here has priorities way higher than a sc. Low funds, lack of time, all of the above. So "eventaully" whats the plan for SC engines, have they peaked?

Corey

Actually its a pretty good question that will likely generate some cool replys:D For myself I am running behind the pack somewhat because I started with the assumption I would be happy with 300 than 350 than 400 HP. Had I just said I want one of the baddest motors in the club than I would have told Dave I want a big cam & valve train to match etc etc when he assembled my engine. Now I do want a bigger badder motor but it will cost me a few thousand dollars to replace component to upgrade. I upgraded to the 85MM TB only to have a 95MM come out later. I remember when Dave hit 440 and than Ira hit like 479 or something like that. They were a mile ahead of the curve. I beleive the new number will be more like 500+ HP. For the manual guys that is very attainable but the non locking TQ equip cars are going to hard pressed to obtain that number. I think there is more to come but very few people will pay the cost to make the big HP and push the limits higher. If I was going to make a prediction on how to get the supercharged guys to make more HP I would say a better IC, maybe air to water IC, A better lower intake to flow air in a more direct path (Mike Tucks intake) More duration in the cam profiles (Dave knows more about what would work than anyone). Just a few guesses on my part. The important thing is that if you dont have the tranny up to snuff, suspension dialed in, a reduction of dead unuseabe weight your not using the high HP to its best advatage. If I am making 600 supercharged horses but just sit and spin at the line than what good is it. Yeh I know back to the quarter mile thing. Most of us uncork at the track vs getting on a highway and doing a rolling run against another car. David Neiberts car is close to 500rwhp with a non locking TQ converter and is in the high 10s. If he dialed in the suspension some more and worked on the details he might be closer to a mid 10 second car. Guess I would call that an incredable win win deal for a street driven car. If I had the funds to build another car just to go fast and make big power, I would go with a twin turbo car with all the forged goodies a better auto than a AOD or 4r70w. A custom built intake manifold, an air to water IC, 3" tubes all the way. I think it would spool quicker off the line and have awesome top end. That how I would build a better 3.8 But for now I will limp along with the poor whipple:rolleyes: and shoot for 500 some day. If that is limiting my thinking than I can accept that. Actually I think my pocket book limits me more than my thinking:D

Ken
 
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For me it's more about finally getting the motor tweeked so that I'm getting it's true potential (3 years of messing around this last time) and now playing catchup with the chassis and suspention.

I would really like to pick up a big ol' TVS head unit and try my hand a fabing up a new kit for the car but to be honest it seems like I just got the car perfected from the AR kit 3 years ago.

Although with the car sitting 0.17 seconds away from a 10 second run I do have a new found motivation to work on it.
 
This year some valvetrain parts are being replaced due to the noisy lifters, so more rpm is capable for this year. When I finally get the stock shortblock replaced, the boost gets cranked up to 20+. And I still avidly search ebay and craiglist for a bigger blower.
 
I'm waiting for more CFM, but I may run out of money before it gets here. Maybe this winter it will happen. Just ordered the Eastwood TIG 200 last night so maybe I can fab up some stuff myself. It was on sale for $700. Shoulda got the plasma cutter with it tho for an extra $300. Didn't see that till after I ordered.:(

I'll try to make more power on E85. Think I'm gonna stick with a 3.8 for now, need to freshen it some kinda bad tho. Would like to do the solid roller cam and up the RPMs some with a new cam and such.

All these sub 11.5 guys need roll bars or they aren't gonna get any lower ETs very quick.

I want 10.0's. Then we'll see if there is anything left to warrant adding the extra bars to go 9's.
 
To be honest I'm not sure if anyone will ever beat CMac's 800+ number, definitely not with a blower anyway unless some crazy new development is made.

Also I'd love to see a stick car hit 10's.
 
I lost an entire year's worth of work on the car for various reasons and I'm not sure that this winter won't be lost as well. I've got the new TB that needs to be installed, I have to put together a new intake and I have to get it all ported to make it work right. I have always been convinced that the old 1.7 can generate more power if I can increase air flow.

None of this includes the misc stuff that I want to do to the car either. The stuff that makes it safer or look better or launch more consistently or just plain faster. I know I already have the horsepower to go at least .5 second faster and that too is a constant source of frustration.

I long ago surpassed all of my goals for the car and it's a hoot driving it around town, but I haven't given up my quest for more power or faster et's. New heads, a bigger cam.... who knows what's next on the list. It's past time to make a new plan but it's the same old story; how fast do you want to go = how much do you want to spend, and right now my ideas are much larger than my budget.
 
Like Casey said - "Can't stop won't stop."

I've been modding this car since 1997. I'll probably mod it for the rest of my life. But you can't dump major money into the same pit year after year after year because you'll go crazy. Not to mention it is a horrible waste of money.

I'm getting around to things that I've been talking about for years now. And it feels good to bring closure to those items. You just gotta look at the whole package and that is definitely not power-dyno-track-power-dyno-track, etc...
 
There has always been arguments here (discussions) as to what the best route to go is. Talk of custom $3,000 heads, custom $1,500+ intakes...

I think its more inline to what you are trying to achieve. There will always be a part of your combination that is holding the HP back.

I think its awsome to see just how far you can go with an m90 based SC however I think weve come to realize that allthough the number varies, regardless of cam, heads, intake....Your stuck at somewhere around 400rwhp give or take. Coincidently the v8's with m90's get stuck with around there as well.

So we look at larger SC's. 1.7AR, 2.2AR, 2.0AR, 2.1AR,2.3Whipple
How much HP do we get from that? Lets increase engine to 4.3, 4.3 liters.

We want custom heads and intakes...for more HP

But where do you draw the line. What good is 800rwhp if you cant use it? What good is 400 if you cant use it? Do you really need a $3,000 + set of custom heads on a car in which you already cant put the HP to the ground?

Allot of what has gone on here was that someone makes 300rwhp..then someone else has to make 301rwhp. People have spent thousands upon thousands trying to get to the next level above and beyond the next.


So then you Corey take a basically stock splitport, throw a self made turbo kit on and make more rwhp than any SC'd SC in the club. How freaking depressing for someone who has spent thousands upon thousands over many years.... to only make less? We are all glad for you of course...But Im just saying...

Then there is Casey who does a full build..And in less than a year..BAM..More rwhp then anyone here or there or....


SO lets take me as mr 1.7 liter twinscrew. If I want the meanest baddest SC.....I basically need to junk my blower and go turbo to even think about possably comming close...Or I can go for a larger blower for $4000 or so and go not that much faster.

So what I have always done with my cars has been to sit back and watch the fallout. I always new a larger twin screw with an optimal inlet was more important then a new casting head or intake (only so much an m90 is going to push)...And I always knew a turbo on a stock motor would do easily 400+rwhp depending so why bother spending big bucks on a twin screw (I didnt pay big bucks for mine). Just go turbo. But then why go turbo when our cars really arent made to handle this type of power....And then we go back to the head and intake....Yah I know too much HP is never enough right?

Well if we are considering keeping the bird IRS I think they real next step we need to look at is new transmission choises and gearing for the stick guys, and what suspension modifications are needed to push our cars to handle the next level of RWHP that is amoung us. Going straight in a safe manner is way more important then another 100rwhp and going sideways or hoppining up and down.

I think what DLF has produced in Delrin and UMVH is awsome. I cant state that enough. SCP has a more affordable delrin set for those that cant do premium. Delrin is going to surely help for both drag racers and road racers alike.

We are seriously lacking in the shock department. We should look into that...MAYBE we can get someone to produce something for us or have something currently made retrofitted. But the common thought is more HP more HP..Not I need suspension...

Anyway I think our lust for HP will drive many of us but I feel that there are also many now looking towards drivetrain perfection

Weve come allong way but I think a focus needs to be turned toward suspensionand drivetrain.....All that being said I want twin turbos:O)..And a nice 6 speed to finish things up
 
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Damon, buy Binks turbo setup. I think its cheap for what it does. Then you are half way there to your twins. He'll build twins get bored of it then you can step up again.:)

I'd buy Binks stuff if I had the money and a car to put it on. Maybe I should and put it on Bettie. And see what it will do on an auto car. Turn it up to 600hp and let it eat.:cool:
 
Damon, buy Binks turbo setup. I think its cheap for what it does. Then you are half way there to your twins. He'll build twins get bored of it then you can step up again.:)

I'd buy Binks stuff if I had the money and a car to put it on. Maybe I should and put it on Bettie. And see what it will do on an auto car. Turn it up to 600hp and let it eat.:cool:

Maybe you should buy Corey's kit...you could even do a compound setup with the turbo feeding the twinscrew.

David
 
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Ill be in the Dugout. :eek: Maybe Tom will get sick of his SVO project and hand it over after its finished.

These cars can handle the power just fine being able to modulate power so you can drive fast in a turn makes for a better package. The right gears and big wide tires will be able to take care of things. Progressive power has always been a favorite of mine. Turbo spooling/lag is no longer my thing love the power buy I just dont like the driving feel.
Street cars that go fast are what I like now. These cars are long wheel base and can handle alot more power then a short wheelbase vehicle.

M5R2s with a crazy rear end are not fun when a car has lots of power. Maybe some folks should sort out some set ups before adding more power. What works on the strip dosnt necesarily work on the street. Find your compromise.

With that said maybe the future is a DOHC with a huge blower on top. Lets see what the V6 mustang guys can do. There will be lots of those in the junk yard in the next few years, might be a set up to consider.
 
Rico...I was done with drag racing long before I bought an SC...When I say handle power I mean for those that dragrace I feel at this point its all about suspension. For us stick guys that like street cars I cant ever imagine being happy with the stock tranny. Or for drag racing guys. My cars suspension is pretty much set except that I want a better shock but Im still happy as is....Transmission gotta go

As far as turbos...I want twins just because...
 
I quote David off the top of my head "you wouldnt be happy with 600rwhp?". And Hell no, I know theres more to be had. Do you guys think theres more to be had than the 500rwhp number on your stuff? I think there is, but what are your plans, if heads never come for example. Someone willing to go outside the box with all billet rotating assembly and more CI? 8500rpm? Blue Bottles for everyone? Whats the plans?

Here is what I think...BTW not saying this is fact, it's just what I think.

If staying with a 3.8 based SC motor and a positive displacment blower as the only power adder, I think you would be hard pressed to exceed 600 rwhp with any transmission.

For example: If I switched to a more agressive solid roller cam, cranked the boost up a couple pounds, installed a bigger intercooler, added some high octane race fuel and switched to a manual transmission...I think I could get there.

Not really sure how long it would stay together, and constantly buying race fuel would suck, and since it was a manual trans I'd need to figure out how to launch it without breaking axles and transmission parts, but it sure would be cool to say my 4.3 v6 SC makes 600 rwhp. Well at least until you run into someone with a 3.0 6 cyl Supra making a 1000 rwhp :rolleyes:

Now if your okay with it not being a true SC, then using a more efficent centrifical supercharger or a turbo will make the job of reaching 600 rwhp a lot easier and you wouldn't even have to switch to a manual transmission. I imagine the right motor and right turbo could even make 1000 rwhp, but it's going to be pretty poochy at anything under 5000 rpms while your waiting for the turbo to spool and you will have to be running E85 or something like C16 race fuel.

If your okay with billet cranks, turbos, nitrous, split port heads, liquid intercoolers and custom manifolds, then whats the big deal about adding two more cylinders and really increasing the power potential ?

David

PS: Before I spent a big pile of time and money trying to get another 80 rwhp of this motor, I would do a modern 5.0 transplant.
 
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In my eyes the 3.8/4.2L V6 has reached the peak. Without further development of a new cast set of heads or intake manifold the only item people can play around with is the forced induction and intake associated with that. Hence the 4.5L SVO V6 project was born.
 
Guess this really didnt go where I was hoping. We're back on turbos and 4.5 svos and split port heads yadda yadda. I guess Neibert answered the big question that he thinks 600rhwp is posssible with what is out there and a twinscrew. Thats pulling out all the stops. So anyone agree, disagree. Once everyone hits 500-600rwhp its find a new powerplant or just deal with it? I guess I was wondering if anyone had ideas outside box to get us too exceed this 500-600 number. Even though im a split port/sc bottom end, This topic still applies to me. I have bone stock heads. Casey is making 800 on single ports, maybe Ill switch back to a ported set of those, maybe I wont. Maybe if someone said I know with this this and this 700rwhp is possible with a whipple, and Id be building one of those. I guess the top number is 500 though, sux that that is the end kinda. I dont know what Ill do when I know I cant make any more power. Ill be bored.

And Damon, I have first hand felt 800rwhp put the ground nicely in caseys car. And me at near 600 on 21lbs im guessing had no problems doing 1.6 60fts back to back to back at the track. Which as quick as any stick car on here. Not sayin 1.6 is good, but its getting to the ground better than some.
 
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Corey..But as you also noted...Launching is only half the battle.

Also I knew years ago 500rwhp was obtainable with a twinscrew albiet a 2.2....But you know..Noone believed me. Thats ok because apparently I was correct :O)

Do I think 700rwhp is? Anything is possable with enough boost, racegas and low ACT it seems. WIll it hold together is the issue. How streetable will it be.

So whos willing to go buck crazy with a solid roller high revving big twin screwed sc? Not I...........But if it can hold it in the big end..Whats the use
 
Guess this really didnt go where I was hoping. We're back on turbos and 4.5 svos and split port heads yadda yadda. I guess Neibert answered the big question that he thinks 600rhwp is posssible with what is out there and a twinscrew. Thats pulling out all the stops. So anyone agree, disagree. Once everyone hits 500-600rwhp its find a new powerplant or just deal with it?

I would agree with that. Guess I think 500rwhp in a properly set up car is one wicked ride that would take some time to get tired of.:p

Ken
 
I'd throw a huge twinscrew on mine, but I like racing every year too. Maybe once I put my old mp3 on my 5 speed car that will be enough for awhile while something wild can go on with the black one.

But we will see what happens with my next upgrade first. I think a 3.4 whipple would be cool on a 3.8 motor.
 
PS: Before I spent a big pile of time and money trying to get another 80 rwhp of this motor, I would do a modern 5.0 transplant.

I don't think this is true. As long as you are top dog this might seem reasonable. But, when others pass you up using something you consider attainable, you'll reconsider. As you know, once you go V8 you have stepped out of this league. With a twin cam V8 you'd be lonely.
 
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