92 SC won't start (all of a sudden)

Northwoods SC

Registered User
Hi guys, I know this has been covered a lot here, but I need your help. I've read through these forums as much as I can as time has allowed, but I need to cut to the chase and get some quick answers before the snow settles in and I can't move her out of my drive. It ran fine over the summer. I got into it one day in the Fall and it started but stalled 50 feet later down the road in gear. Restarted and stalled many times, just enough to get me turned around and back in my drive. Now it fires, but stalls immediately after about one second in Park. Sometimes I can get it to fire two or three seconds if I put my foot to the gas, but it always dies and misses terribly in the process.:confused: I suspected a fuel problem, so I replaced the fuel filter with no luck. Pulled the cam sensor connector and tried to start multiple times, it didn't fire as well as with it connected. What next?

Here is some info on the car:
I live in Northern Michigan
1992 TBird SC - 154,000 miles.
Remanufactured Ford SC engine replaced by local dealership 9 years ago (15,000 miles on new engine).
All stock.
Sits every winter, gets driven infrequently these past many years.
Always fires up quickly for the last 20 years, that is until now.
Upshift light does not come on when cranking.

I know from here that the trio of Camshaft sensor, Crank sensor, and DIS should be replaced - which one first - I have limited bucks. I'm sure they are all original (unless the dealership changed replaced them with new when they did the engine swap). I originally pulled KOEO codes for an Air Charge and ECT out of range, but the engine was cold and the car won't run for any other test. Any ideas where to begin? Your help is appreciated!
 
It's reading like a balancer failure. Possible the crank sensor isn't getting a good reading. I would start there.

I don't think cam sensor. The car will start and run fine without it, if I remember correctly.

DIS could be a problem, I doubt it.


I'm leaning towards crank sensor, especially if it started acting up after hammering on it.

Good luck,

Bryce


P.S. I've never seen this upshift light on the four SC's I've had. However, I've never had a balancer failure.
 
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So you still think it's a crank sensor problem, eventhough it's not lighting the upshift light during cranking? What's a good source for these sensors? Are the parts store ilk ok or is there a better source for quality parts? I don't want to be doing this again anytime soon. Thanks 90Coug!:confused:
 
Could be, hard to say. RockAuto would be a good place to find one.

I would jump into your engine and double check the balancer looks good before you buy any parts.

Usually it's obvious from a wobble or something of that nature.



It's very possible it's nothing I mentioned. Just my thoughts....
 
I just checked fuel pressure at the Shrader valve. Got these readings on the guage:

1st Key on - 7 psi
2nd key on - 21 psi
3rd Key on - 41 psi

I repeated with pretty much the same results after relieving the pressure. Seems like it always needs 3 runs of the pump for a couple of seconds to build up. Maybe that's what it is supposed to do, I don't know. Or should it bump up to full pressure with the first key on? I can't get it to run to test its pressure at idle. Anyone else run into this?
 
I would assume that sounds right for fuel pressure, especially with the switch in on position. There are many things that keep these cars from running. I'd also check to see if its getting spark, and see if that harmonic balancer is wobbling when cranking that would knock the crank sensor off. Since its been not driven much check all the wiring
 
it would run with a bad cam sensor. a bad crank sensor, as in total failure, would not run at all. however, if it's not completely shot, when it reaches its failure point, it would shut down. that could be your problem. a bad balancer would be like a car thats slipped time. if it did run, it wouldn't be smooth. if it were your ignition, it would likely sputter under load. or fail when it gets hot. or not work at all. as far as fuel, you need to keep a gauge on it throughout your attempts to start it. if its only running when the pressure builds but then pressure dies, that could cause a stall. its likely throwing the codes because things aren't going well. if your ect sensor is bad, your car will likely run rich. its more of a flooding issues cause it thinks the car hasn't warmed up yet. the car would run but have a possible hot start issue.
 
Components in the ignition system include Clutch or tranny N/P switch as well as alarm system relay and the main ones: ECU, DIS, Crank sensor, cam sensor, coil pack, condenser, wires and spark plugs.

Check codes for indication of offending parts.

Upshift light during cranking may indicate crank sensor. (this component usually fails hard so, intermittent start/fail is a contraindication)

Bad coil code may indicate bad coil or wide spark plug gap. If the spark plug gap is too wide it takes more coil voltage to create an spark. When the coil field collapses it may cause a big enough "bounce" in the wiring to cause temporary DIS failure.

The noise immunity varies from DIS to DIS with many aftermarket modules prone to failure. The condensor on the coil pack is supposed to "filter" out these transient spikes, but in some combinations doesn't work well.

Each of the sensors and high voltage wires have shielding with connection to ground. If the shielding or ground connections are bad, noise problems can occur.

Good luck. When you find the problem pleast post it 0 hardly anyone does.
 
My upshift light is off during cranking. Does a crank sensor problem normally illuminate that if it's faulty?

i just had a not starting at all issue.. and i had to ground some wires on the scanner port to get communication to the eec, weird..

the crank sensor controls some of ur spark and timing.. but the car will run if its bad, it will just be hard to start and ur tac wont work. the crank sensor controls ur fuel injection pulse.. the car definitely will not run at all without that.. the ignition control module is what it kinda sounds like to me.. it also has a big play in ur timing and idle.. u can take off the icm and take it to the parts store and they will test it for u for free..

but check ur spark, check ur fuel pressure and check fuel injection pulse..see what ur missing and go from there..
 
crank sensor tells the computer that the engine is actually turniung. if it doesn't sense motion, the spark and fuel will stop. the whole car is computer controlled. it gets its info from sensors. sometimes codes are not trustworthy. you can have a vacuum leak cause a lean condition and throw a bad o2 sensor code. i would unplug the sensors 1 at a time, except the crank sensor, and see if it will run without it. you can test the coil pack with a volt meter. check everything out you can thats free and see if your investigation gives you any info. if you replace everything that COULD cause this, you'll be out a grand and probably figure out it was a $30 part.
 
That sounds bad...like it jumped a tooth or two on the timing chain. I would do a compression test on all the cylinders before going any further.

David
 
that does sound bad. by chance did you spay starting fluid in it if so may have caused some bad damage. rule of thumb never use it. sounds almost like some bent push rods do what david said check the compression on all the cylinders.
 
No starting fluid, ever! Could this be the fuel pump, or are you guys hearing real mechanical issues? What does everyone suggest as a fuel pump assembly these days? Stock replacement or more liters/hour from other suppliers? I don't ever plan to get major horsepower- maybe 350-400hp max. Any SC mechanics in Michigan that people suggest - the list here is pretty old?
 
Update: Well, decided to take the old girl to a local garage today for some help. Initial report back is that they suspect it is flooded as the recently changed oil is up 1.5 quarts and it smells like gas. They are going to drain and replace the oil and pull some plugs to check their condition. Any idea what would cause that? Will keep you posted...
 
i just had a not starting at all issue.. and i had to ground some wires on the scanner port to get communication to the eec, weird..

the Cam sensor controls some of ur spark and timing..which of course they go hand and hand, but the car will run if its bad, it will just be hard to start and ur tac wont work.. eventually it wont run at all if its completely broken.. the crank sensor controls ur fuel injection pulse.. and yes the engine runs by computer control we know that.. but if just one sensor goes then its lost and wont run right at all. it misses part of the equasion to calculate perfect timing.. the car definitely will not run at all without crank sensor..... we just had a car come in the other day that had spark and no injection. pulse.. changed the crank sensor and it ran like a top.. the ignition control module is what it kinda sounds like to me.. it also has a big play in ur timing and idle.. i also have an 89 f150 with the same basic computer technology.. and i noticed that it quickly went down hill and wouldnt run at all when the icm went out.. u can take off the icm and take it to the parts store and they will test it for u for free.. is ur tac moving.. check ur injection pulse with a noid lite..

i watched it turn over.. and seems like its gettin fuel cause it wants to run.. could be timing or spark.. sounds more like timing after actually listening..

but check ur spark, check ur fuel pressure and check fuel injection pulse..see what ur missing and go from there..
typo fixed.. sorry..
 
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