Front end "popping" when turning on uneven ground

EatonEmployee

Registered User
I had a girl clip my driver front wheel as I did a U-turn. She tried to drive around me and hit my lt front wheel pretty good as it was turned to the bump stop.

I took it to a body shop to have it repaired. Being a knowledgeable mechanic I told the shop that something was clearly damaged in the front end. It vibes, pulls ambiguously/wonders & won't hold an alignment. The handling is bad too & the new tires a cupping. The shop & the insurance co are lost. They replaced the rack, inner tie rod bushings but the problem remains. Don't ask me why they replaced inner tie rod bushings as a root cause for an MVA.The car handled amazingly before the MVA. They told me that my cars parts are just worn. Not true. I had the car gone through by one of the best mechanics I know & we fixed anything found & even dyno'd the car. Perfect. My car had 99k miles at the time & now 101. It was perfect before the MVA & now I did notice that one shock is mildly damp. Not on the side that was hit. I think the control arms on the impact side were damaged including the upper ball joint & possibly the wheel bearing. The shop the insurance co made me use was useless. The said, "no OEM shocks are even available". I said Tokiko Illumina II's are an OEM replacement with an ARC connector, but they just ignored me. I knew more than them but you have to let these people call shots or they stop helping. Any input would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this car as perfect as I can before I sell it.
 
I had a girl clip my driver front wheel as I did a U-turn. She tried to drive around me and hit my lt front wheel pretty good as it was turned to the bump stop.

I took it to a body shop to have it repaired. Being a knowledgeable mechanic I told the shop that something was clearly damaged in the front end. It vibes, pulls ambiguously/wonders & won't hold an alignment. The handling is bad too & the new tires a cupping. The shop & the insurance co are lost. They replaced the rack, inner tie rod bushings but the problem remains. Don't ask me why they replaced inner tie rod bushings as a root cause for an MVA.The car handled amazingly before the MVA. They told me that my cars parts are just worn. Not true. I had the car gone through by one of the best mechanics I know & we fixed anything found & even dyno'd the car. Perfect. My car had 99k miles at the time & now 101. It was perfect before the MVA & now I did notice that one shock is mildly damp. Not on the side that was hit. I think the control arms on the impact side were damaged including the upper ball joint & possibly the wheel bearing. The shop the insurance co made me use was useless. The said, "no OEM shocks are even available". I said Tokiko Illumina II's are an OEM replacement with an ARC connector, but they just ignored me. I knew more than them but you have to let these people call shots or they stop helping. Any input would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this car as perfect as I can before I sell it.

I would check the following:

Strut rod and bushings (Compare the strut rod to the passenger side very closely) It should be the same size/shape as the passenger side. They bend up kind of easily.

I would also recommend checking the lower control arm. Check the geometry and spacing around all of the parts and compare each of the sides.

Use a tape measure and measure the distance from the center-bottom of the lower front ball joint on each control arm to the front bolt of the lower rear control arm bushing on each side and record the measurements. Then do the same in a criss cross fashion. Measure the distance from the left from to the right rear and then the distance from the right front to the left rear. Each set of measurements should be within an 1/8 of an inch or so. If not then you have something bent.

Do not rule out a bent strut either.
 
suspension

I'm a collision repair tech, I run into this a lot. First did the body shop do an alinement? did you get the print out from the alinement? It will show before and after. If the car was struck in the wheel you need to make sure the wheel is true, hub and bearing, knuckle are the first things to look at. The best way to determine what is really going on is to take it to an alinement shop and have an SAI test. (Steering Axis Inclination) get the print out. The SAI should show where the problem is. Did the shop set up and measure the car? most shops now have computerized measuring systems and they also have print outs of how your car measured out. The tolerance is 0-3 mm. any more then that the car is not in spec. Read your insurance estimate look for pull time and set up and measure time, if there is none the shop did not do it. Always demand all the paper work. I give all my customers all records of the repair, every one gets a copy. One more thing, the insurance company is not your friend they are not like a good neighbor and your not in good hands. They hope you will just go away. Make them pay for what ever you do, it is there responsibility to return your car to what they to call (Pre Accident Condition) remember those three words! Don't let up on them. If the body shop is good they will stand by all repairs, they work for you not the ins. co. The ins.co. is always try'n to screw shops into the ground by limiting the the cost of the repair by omitting important operations. If these things were not done then demand that you car be measured on a frame machine and get the print out, have an SAI test done and go from there.
 
Also check the subframe to chassis mounting bolts for tightness, they are a big Torx head bolt IIRC. A few people over the years have found that they can loosen off a bit and allow the subframe to move around enough to cause some noise.


cheers
Ed
 
Thanks guys. Yeah, by no means is my car in pre accident condition. I actually got so fed up I stopped driving the SC & just bought a new car. I loved the SC & had only put 3k miles on it. I bought it from a Ford technician who was the original owner & was sad to see it go.

A couple of times the wondering on the freeway almost made me crash. A few times I would start to turn & it wouldn't respond and then catch right before I was into the wall. This is indicative of a bent lower control component. The popping noise.... I don't know. The car's been aligned 4 times. It shakes. I was injured in the military &have bad PTSD & a mild TBI that gives me a stutter when nervous. These people confuse this for weakness & are running me over. I've just been out of the military & I'm not used to people taking advantage of me let alone a disposition. I'll check into these factors. Thanks again.

Lincoln
 
bent suspension

If there is a suspension part bent the car will not take an alignment. Something will come up out of spec, sounds like you have a bad rack or the speed sensitive steering is acting up. There is a little actuator on the power steering pump that acts up when the fluid is old and dirty. When that is not working properly a high speed ride on the high way can get scary. use the search link here look for power steering pump issues. Also did you get a new tire? if it was hit it could be damaged internally and cause bad vibration at speed.
 
If there is a suspension part bent the car will not take an alignment. Something will come up out of spec, sounds like you have a bad rack or the speed sensitive steering is acting up. There is a little actuator on the power steering pump that acts up when the fluid is old and dirty. When that is not working properly a high speed ride on the high way can get scary. use the search link here look for power steering pump issues. Also did you get a new tire? if it was hit it could be damaged internally and cause bad vibration at speed.

I think he sold the car by the sounds of the posting.
 
No, I would not sell the car until everything is good to go. The issue occurred the MVA so the PS issue is out. If the subframe bolts came loose during the MVA then the subframe is damaged. The "alignment telling all" theory is false. It would not show a bent strut or component. It might create a static tow or camber in/out issue that they would simply adjust & then when the car moved or became dynamic it goes out again. Also if the ball joint got busted..........
The way & how hard I was hit, I don't know why the control arms on that side weren't just replaced, as well as the tie rods. They replaced the wheel.

The insurance company has just replaced parts without any real knowledge of this platform or listened to how the vehicle was hit. Now they have reached a spending limit that is no longer cost effective to them. It's been at 3 shops. One shop put 56 miles on my car, did something that stopped my radio from functioning & clock & sat in my trunk and caved in the spare tire wheel cover & broke the plastic knob that secured it. They also pulled all the insulation back to get to my rear struts & messed up my perfect trunk interior. The went over my perfect black paint with some kind of buffer that looks like it was full of pebbles & I've had to spend hours buffing it. I'm really over it.
 
front end

The insurance co. does not fix cars all they do is pay the claim therefore they have no knowledge on how to repair your car or any other one for that mater. You stated that they replaced the rack & the inner tie rod (bushings?). Inner tie rods don't have bushings. They are a ball & socket that screw on to the rack. If they are worn out there is no way to get a tow adjustment to hold. The way to tell if they are bad is to jack the front of the car up and grab the front and back of the tire and see if you can turn the wheel in & out, if they are bad there will be no resistance at first. A bent strut, upper,lower control arms and strut rod will cause bad camber readings and or bad castor readings, there is only so much you can adjust. You say that you have had the car aligned 4 times someone is bound to find something wrong at that point. I have asked about print outs, you should have 4 from all those alignments. being a knowledgeable mechanic you should be able to read them. The alignment machines today are computerized laser systems and very sensitive, every time I have sent a repaired car to alignment with a slightly bent suspension part they won't take an alignment due to bad (Steering Access Inclination) NO THEORY THERE! You stated that when driving, the car wanders from right to left and you would go to turn the wheel and nothing (no response) and then it would catch. That my friend is a bad rack!!!! The worm gear in the rack has a chipped tooth or is striped! (That will not show up on an alignment machine) being that it is static. If that part was as you say replaced then what did they replace it with? a used one or a rebuilt one? I have seen lot's of bad rebuilt racks! and worn out used ones too. which brings us back to the speed sensitive steering. The rack for our cars I believe is different than a tbird w/o speed sensitive steering Therefore if it was replaced you could not only have a bad one but the wrong one. The shop that did the repair is obligated to warranty all work & parts used in the repair of your car for as long as you own it! and so is the insurance co.. You stated in your last post that all they replaced was the wheel, do you have a copy of the repair estimate? You need to read it and make a list of the parts replaced and post it so we can see.
 
They said they replaced the inner tie rod bushings. I told you they had no idea what they were doing. They replaced two very large bushings that go into the K member & the tie rods come out of.

So if they put in a non SC rack then the speed sensitive steering would freak out?? That may be my answer but I still don't get the pop when I'm turning or back on uneven ground. It sound like something pops in or out of place.
 
They said they replaced the inner tie rod bushings. I told you they had no idea what they were doing. They replaced two very large bushings that go into the K member & the tie rods come out of.

So if they put in a non SC rack then the speed sensitive steering would freak out?? That may be my answer but I still don't get the pop when I'm turning or back on uneven ground. It sound like something pops in or out of place.

Sounds like rack to frame bushings were replaced. Most rack's come pre-assembled with inner tie rods already attached.
 
AFAIK, the MN-12 racks are all the same. The speed-sensitive ability is achieved through an electric variable orifice on the pump pressure outlet.

I'd suggest that you get someone to sit in the driver's seat and with the engine off, steer the wheels back and forth (front wheels on the ground) while you check out everything from the rack mount bolts to the strut rod mounts to the upper and lower control arms. If you don't see anything obviously whacky there, I'd be negotiating with the insurance company to get it to a competent body shop that can properly check the front subframe for damage.

It's not like there's anything mysterious or exotic going on in an MN-12 suspension. If they can't figure out what's wrong they're either incompetent or lazy.
 
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